N99 Pistol from Fallout New Vegas (Critique are welcome)
polycounter lvl 2
Reference Art:
Low poly:
High Poly:
UV (low poly version):
All critiques are welcomed :-)
Low poly:
High Poly:
UV (low poly version):
All critiques are welcomed :-)
Replies
It's a good start, but it this your high poly ro low poly?
Hello, nice to meet you.
I also thought same thing last night. I thought maybe I beveled the edges formally without thinking.
There are some replica images on the web, I guess I should see those, and bevel it as real as possible.
Thanks.
Hello, nice to meet you.
Would you please explain little bit more specific? English is not my first language ... Sorry.
What's the meaning of "functional"? means bad? not good? So far I understood it means "real" not illusion from normal map. Am I right?
What do you mean "edge does affect the shape of the asset" ?
" I would also add that not all game assets are lo poly and it doesn't mean that you can't create a hi poly version of an already existing lo poly asset. If you're learning, it's about having fun"
So far I understood, "if lo-poly and hi-poly are the same, then do not create hi-poly. I does not have to be lo-poly with normal map always"
am I right?
Let me bevel the edges again. This time, I will crate bevel as real as possible based on replicas.
I will not consider # of polygons for now.
But if the asset is JUST this pistol, and if you're intending this to be seen from a first person camera, you're going to want to give it the high poly treatment to get a strong normal map. If you're only intending this to be ever seen from a third person perspective at distance, your final shots should really emphasize this.
Medium poly modeling has been most often used for repeatable, non-hero assets: lamp posts, barrels, crates, etc. Something like the Fallout pistol here is what I would consider a hero asset, and a lot of other game artists will recognize it as such.
Right now you have a good model base, but you're not quite ready tor retopo this. Get this looking good with a high poly model (if you go that route) before you commit to a low poly model retopology.
Once again, forms like the pistol grip should be rounded off. On one end, it's a feasibility of the object in real life. In another, it's' creating different interestsing forms on one object, because right now you're ALL hard geometric lines throughout the weapon.
That reference you have above, I'm pretty sure that's the third person version of the asset they have in Fallout, for when you pick it up off the ground or see it on another NPC, NOT the first person version.
Bethesda most likely made that AFTER they made the original first person version of the pistol.
Does any of that not make sense, by any chance?
Brian "Panda" Choi
Thanks both of you. I guess I should create the model as good as possible without worrying number of polygons.
I will post my modified N99 as fast as possible. And then, let's see what I need to do.
Thanks again. I guess I really need to focus on the edges.
Brian "Panda" Choi
I created new version of lo-poly N99
Last time, I beveled the edges manually a.k.a without thinking.
This time, I bevel the edges based on the reference actual pistol images especially hand-grip part.
I also add extra segments to create rounded soft edges. In this case, I do not consider # of polygons that much.
Is this fine? Should I move on to next stage such as uv map?
Like right here, there's barely any useful shadow or lighting information. We'd have no clear understanding of what this would even look like in-game.
Ooops. Let me upload new images using substance painter
Please gimme some time. I will upload it within 30 minutes.
or if you are busy.. now is 11:45 am In my time zone
I will upload new upload before 2:00 pm in my time zone. I don't know which time zone you people are living now.
Sorry to change my word. But, looks like something is not right about substance painter.
I will upload new image with better rendering within 1 hour. Sorry.
Brian "Panda" Choi
This is exactly same mesh but different rendering. The texture is bad since I did not unwrap the uv map yet.
Should I move on to next stage? Or, is there anything I should do before?
You gotta soften your hard edges more. Do you not feel like they're soft enough or?
By the way, your attempts to tag me are not pinging my notifications if that was your intention.
I beveled it again as you recommended.
Don't worry about yellow circle. I will fix it.
About the blue part.. I would not like to touch it (if it is not big issue) since it may disrupts entire structures of grip part.
Any other idea, comment, or recommendation?
Thanks.
The back edge of the action slide still needs a overall medium bevel.
The indentation on the action slide side is still jsut a wedge. It needs to be a curve to reflect the existing reference.
You're getting there. Keep pushing. The stuff you're mentioning that you don;'t want to change can be improved in accuracy if you only put some mroe elbow grease into it.
This model is looking much better than your previous which were really low poly.
You must understand better, when to bevel more, and when to remove edges.
The other people say "functional" edges and they mean edges that have a meaning
In the picture, all the edges with arrows can be removed and YOU WILL HAVE EXACTLY the same model!
This is why i asked you to make a model without worrying about # of polygons
You must understand what is good quality with low geometry...!
Luckily what I said has already been explained but I'll respond directly:
A functional edge/polygon is one that keeps the shape of the asset. As @Larry said, if there are lots of edges/polygons in the middle that don't change the shape of the asset then they are useless so get rid of them.
Regarding lo-poly vs. hi-poly. If you're learning and this isn't part of a project, then don't worry about the polygon count. If you are learning modelling, focus on clean topology and good UV's. Once you've got the basics right you can worry about polygon count and figure out creative ways to keep the polygon count relevant without changing the way the asset looks too much.
I hope this helps!
@z0mbie
@Ashervisalis
Sorry I was late. Here's my recent version
This is lo-poly. UV is not done yet.
As you people recommended, I re-shaped the top of the action slide, trigger area, and grip part :-)
From a technical point, you have many errors in the way you build your model.
1) your main part is only 1 piece, so when you want to bevel edges, the edge loop goes ALL AROUND the model = extra geometry.All the green lines i made, show that you can have different pieces, not just 1 piece.
2) All the red lines show all the geometry that you can bake in normal map. What i mean is, All these small windows and panels and hand grip as well can be in your high poly, but not in the low poly. Normal map will make it seem lke there are small windows, but it can be only 1 polygon. When i go home i will show you a better example for this
3) Blue lines show that you have alot of extra edges. Why do you bevel with 4 edges every time? 2 will make the same result. Also, bevel more, bevel bigger edges. Your bevels are very small, and in the end it still seems like no bevel at all.
number 1: this is a "hard edge" it has 90 degrees and it is bad for lighting. Very small and unimportant objects can have this. Bad for baking.
number 2: Best quality for low poly objects for baking
number 3: Best balance between quality and number of polygons
number 4: Alot of extra geometry that you only put for very very good quality/realistic pieces and generally, if you dont have problem with polygons.
In your weapon you must do number 2 and maybe number 3. And bevel with bigger number than you do now.
Hopefully you understand better now
Ok, Larry. If your green means yellow that shall not be one piece, here we are.
Blue is roof of pistol
Red is the action slide
Yellow is the main body
Green is laser pointer
Well, I actually checked the replicas of N99 pistol and real pistol parts from web. I try to create something as realistic.
I did not tell you yet, but I also created gun work bench as you showed me before. And, that guy also represented the dissembles of gun such as spring, trigger, bolts etc. I think it is brilliant idea. So I created mine as I can dissemble.
Do you think those cannot be one piece still?
This is the whole structure. My plan was to showing my pistol right next from the parts such as magazine, nozzle, trigger, bolts, etc on the work-bench.
If I need to create some parts not in one piece, I may need to do this again from the beginning. :-)
Something like this. It looks line one piece. But it is not in actual.
This this what you mean?
Thanks Larry.
I was kind of scared when you said mine is one piece so structure is bad :-)
Let me handle this edge issue. Maybe It will take a lot of time. Please do not wait for me for now :-)
Always thanks.
@Larry
By the way, about the normal map...
Those circles are the parts that can be baked so I can save # of polygons.
However, I actually tried to bake those parts but it ended up not well.
I did not save the previous file, but as I remembered
1) Red Area: Yes, it was looking like there is a hole. However, since this gun is for FPS game purpose, everyone will recognize it is optical illusion (which is the essence of normal map) when I closed up the camera like FPS-gun-holding angle.
2) Yellow Area: Same problem goes on red area
3) Blue Area: Maybe I could try this one this time..
4) Green Area: Everything is fine except I need to assign different material on the mesh.
Actually.. those circle areas do not have that many polygons. Do you think my boss will not like it if I do not bake that part?
The main issue is that I need to close up this object like a FPS-user-point-view-angle. Maybe because of my lack of skill, but everyone will see that there is no hole but optical illusion.
This is getting along, though.
@alex_kim If this is meant to be a weapon for first person view, why not go for best quality and get this baked from a high poly model?
Brian "Panda" Choi
Hope you people like it.
I delete the extra edges or segments as long as it does not destroy the structure.
I let some of edges because there is a hole the area that camera did not show last time. It was my bad. Sorry.
Basically, what I've understood, in the lo-poly, I shall not add more than 1 segment on the between edges that are beveled.
Ok let's say you made the low poly (you can make it more low poly but anyways)
Now you make UV for low poly, you smooth the mid poly (before you removed all the edges) and you bake it.
Brian "Panda" Choi
I just did unwrap the uv-map
I will bake the normal map using substance painter.
Now, let me create hi-poly version mesh.
but for now, take all these uv's, make them about 1/4 BIGGER and try to fit them all insive uv space manually
Brian "Panda" Choi
Oh, I forgot the most important question.
Do you know where is the "unfold smooth" button in the Maya 2018? In maya 2015, there's very powerful function what we called "unfold smooth" which we can stretch out uv very clearly with single button click and drag. But, I cannot find it in 2018
news
you know what? Never mind, I found it.
I will re-unwrap this uv again. Damn Maya 2018
https://www.highend3d.com/maya/script/nightshade-uv-editor-for-maya
I like it a lot. Has layout and other frequently ussed editing tools in easy access. Also makes dealing with UV set editing much easier.
Brian "Panda" Choi
About the "perforated line" issue, there's a way to solve in the Substance Painter.
I found "unfold smooth" function in the Maya.
Brian "Panda" Choi
Hello, people. I am working on the creating hi-poly and baking normal map.
I actually removed some edges since there are too many of them, so I cannot create hi-poly mesh.
But, I have an issue here for help ;_;
This is the lo-poly hand grip of pistol that is little bit smaller than hi-poly mesh:
And, this is hi-poly:
And, this is the substance painter that is baked:
As you see, it's like somebody squeeze some parts (red circle). The edges are clear that has no black ooze and "stitch effect" finally; however, I still have no idea why some parts are looking damaged.
Although If I apply some dark-heavy material, some damaged parts are looking gone. But, I am not sure that is right way to solve the problem.
By the way, this is the data when I generate maps using substance painter:
Always thanks.
Do you have Toolbag 3? That also has, I would almost argue, a superior texture map baker
Your high poly still has faceting on it. Are you Smooth Mesh Preview convertin anything? That may be a contributing issue as well.
Brian "Panda" Choi
I fixed it.
I have another question.
Do I need to bake the part that has not different between lo-poly mesh and hi-poly mesh at all?
Brian "Panda" Choi
I have one good news and bad news
The good news is that I fix the problem
The bad news is that as you see the yellow circle, each parts has different value when I bake the maps.
Actually, this is not the first time I try to merge two normal maps into one. But, I always failed.
1. Using Photoshop to merge two maps into one
It's very complicated. And, every time I merged, the background blue color gets slightly brighter and brighter.
The worst part is the color of beveled edges are getting slightly changed as well.
Eventually, when I merge three to four maps, the normal map itself was ruined.
2. Using the Program
I used the website that merge two normal maps at time.
I also used the free program (I forgot the name ;_;) that can merge two normal maps at time.
But, it's not perfect. It was better than method one; however, it damaged the color as well.
Is there any other way to merge multiple normal maps?