WIP Shiva FinalFantasy XIV

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Tits mod
Hi all!
I'm finaly back after, I believe, close to two years since my last personnal piece.
Been very busy last 2 years with me leaving my studio job, moving to another city and starting my career as a freelancer but it's time for me to start some new folio pieces again.
It's good to be back!

I actually started that piece quite a while ago but then never got a chance to pick it up again.
As some of you may know I always try to have clear objectives when I pick a new piece and so here's what I'm trying to improve on with this piece.
Obviously from all the fan art I made you can tell I'm not really comfortable with making my own design, and so once again I will be using a concept art.
But the concept art was chosen for a reason, It's very vague, The details are not all clear and not all detailed for me, giving me the responsability to kind of figure it out.
This will give me the chance to really try different things and hopefully coming up with something without having to perfectly follow a concept art.
I also think that since I always work with clients, I don't get to critique a lot of my own work. I usually work under the guideline and precise direction of a client which makes it so that I don't get to often judge my own work and make my own decision about the look of a character. 
Being able to judge and critique my own work is also being able to get a bunch of different critique from you guys, get different point of view and be able to decide which way to go and how to adapt to different critique.

Anyway, enough talking,
Here's the concept art, it's Shiva from FFXIV


Here's the first screenshot I posted few days ago in the WAYWO thread

This is where I am at now

Progress might or might now be slow, depending on how busy work is :)
As usual I'm counting on your for comments and critique to get the best result possible by the end.

Thanks for reading and hopefully following the process.
Also, Polycount helped me SO MUCH,learning character art.
I wouldn't be where I am without polycount so in the effort to give back as much as I can to this amazing community I want to really welcome anyone of any level to ask question if they have any and i'll make sure to answer to you to the best of my ability whenever I can.

Cheerio :awesome:


Replies

  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    Instant added to Fav ^^  

    I see what you mean now about the vague concept art... Have fun with it :)
  • dGreenberg
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    dGreenberg vertex
    Really looking forward to seeing how you make it your own. I'm stoked to see some future updates!
  • vickgaza
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    vickgaza polycounter lvl 5
    Heya Marie, looking very promising :) 

    I`m not sure if you want to stray away from the proportions or not but I`ll comment either way.

    When I look at the concept  the main thing that is most prevalent is the size and proportion of the crown of spikes in relations with the head.
    Yours seem to be much smaller compared to concept, and I think if you don`t make them clearly big and and clearly exaggerated / OTT, they might read as "wrong" or weird if someone doesn`t see the concept first. 
    Secondly, the upper body of the character is more compressed than yours, since I`m assuming he had to compensate for the long spikes. The space between the navel and boobies seems to be a bit longer at yours .
    Also her pelvis in the concept art is more imposing, very square off, and slightly pushing forward. I think you might want to add a bit of that gesture to the T pose as well. 

    Anyway I know it`s still early but here were my 2 cents on the matter, hope it helps :D Looking forward to seeing this done :dizzy:
    Vick


  • Tairow
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    Tairow polycounter lvl 5
    Great Idea Tits!! Love the game. 

    I think her lips seems a bit weird, and her torso seems a little short as her legs a bit long.
    But I'm not an expert in anatomy. 

    Good luck on this project Marie, I'll keep on watching.
  • Muzzoid
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    Muzzoid polycounter lvl 8
    Woo, followed :)! It's looking really solid so far.

    Just a comment, with the spikes, on the concept it seems to me that the hair is kind of wrapping up through the spikes, which helps keep them forms a bit more integrated, that might be something your want to do as well.


  • MrHobo
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    MrHobo polycounter lvl 6
    Im terrible about giving proper feedback in the hangouts so here's my 2 cents,

    As usual I could be waaaaaay off so take everything with many grains of salt and sorry for the rough paintover, but these are my thoughts
    Starting with the head, I think you can pull her ears forward a bit and her jaw as well.
    I think her neck is a little too thick right now and could use a slight slimming and her traps could be slimmed a little bit too.
    In the concept her nose is pretty small I know you're going for the spirit and not trying to do a 1-1 adaption but just something I would mention.



    I think her shoulder need to come up a little bit and her shoulders could be a tiny bit wider as well. 
    Last 2 things I saw was that her crotch is a tad too high currently and her forearms could be a tiny bit longer.

    excited for where you take this :)
  • MadGunslinger
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    MadGunslinger polycounter lvl 2
    Woah, this is gonna be awesome! Nice work so far! 
  • Stinkfoot
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    Stinkfoot polycounter lvl 6
    Man, I haven't seen Shiva since Final Fantasy 7, Like this current look a lot, keep going!
  • TomGT
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    TomGT polycounter lvl 2
    Yesss! Looking forward to this.
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 9
    Oh man, she's pretty. You're off to a great start. I hate C&C'ing people better than me, but here's some thoughts.

    The crown of ice spikes is super huge in the concept compared to your blockin. I'm not sure how closely you're aiming to match the concept but i'd start off by getting it's relationship to the head correct. The face seems a little large also, perhaps just the skull in general, but the features appear much more squished together in the concept and the chin/shoulder gap seems maybe a smidge larger. Looking on google it seems as if they settled for a more traditional face and head proportion quite similar to what you have for their final look, but again, depends how rigidly you wanna stick to the concept (which is pretty crazy!). The volumes you have going in the torso and the legs seem near perfect, really chunky, nice job nailing those. Proportionally though everything from the waist down seems slightly lower in the concept as MrHobo mentioned.

    Super quick and dirty lines to illustrate. This is a sweet topic so i'm looking forward to seeing where you take it :)


  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Oh wow hello you guys!
    I didn't expect that many answers, usually my thread start pretty slowly with very fews answers at the begining to couple by the ends.
    So Since I got a lot of feedback adressing me not following 100% the concept, yes that's totally true, I totally appreciate you bringing up the front views to check the proportions, I actually didn't use the concept art at all in that sens, I just eyeballed the whole thing.
    I did do some adjustement to bring the character a bit closer to the concept, especially about the ''spikey things'' being so much smaller  (I was quite surprised about that one, I though those were huge aldready, didn't realsed mine were so much smaller!)
    But I just prefer to say that since I work so closely with concept art in most of my client work, often trying to match them perfectiy, I just want to give myself some slack here and have some fun with it. I'm following the general idea of the concept and want to keep similar style but I don't want to really go that far as to match every single curve of the body to the concept art.
    That doesn't mean I didn't appreciate your critique, I definitly did and you guys brought up some good points.

    So I haven't had much time to work on this since I was trying to fix a weird scaling issue with the file, I used a 3ds max base that I often use, always with the same scale but somehow in this one the scale was all screwed and so my brush sized were always showing super small.
    I tried different technique to bring all the subtool to the right size at the same time and most of them exploded my mesh but I ended up finding one that worked. YESSS so my dynamesh is finally working (I had to work at way higher resolution on the hair because I couldn't get the dymanesh to be lower density due to said scale bug)
    So now the hair is super low rez but I'm working on building up the shape, still very WIP obviously.
    reworked a bit the face, brough the ear forward quite a bit, reworked the neck, and overall proportions of some part of her torso.  Lowered the crotch
    Adjusted her arms, parts of her legs are still bugging me, I need to get back to those.
    I made the spiky things slightly bigger but definitly not as big as on the concept (i believe, i didnt check), I think it's more of a middle ground between what I had and the concept.

    Anyway, more later

    cheers :)


  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Update!
    Started working on the costume, just finished the basic blocking of the body portion, still a lot of pieces to add etc.

  • ysalex
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    ysalex polycounter lvl 5
    Very Awesome Marie, everything is looking great. I like your interpretation of the face. Looking forward to the rest. 
  • AgelosAp
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    AgelosAp polycounter lvl 5
    I 'm trying to find something constructive but this is just going great, agree with Yuri about the face it's my favorite part!
  • BrendtheCow
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    BrendtheCow polycounter lvl 6
    This is looking fantastic! :pleased:
  • Montreseur
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    Montreseur polycounter lvl 2
    Love it, really nice seeing your steps in creating the likeness. 
  • MercurialForge
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    MercurialForge polycounter lvl 3
    Woh this is looking wicked awesome already! Always loved her XIV design. Watching your process is a huge inspiration! Can't wait to see more.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    @ysalex Thank you so much Yuri, you know I have always hold you and you work in high regards so this means a lot to me :)
    @AgelosAp Thank you! Glad you like the progress so far!
    @BrendtheCow Thanks man!
    @Montreseur Thank you! 
    @MercurialForge Glad you liked it, big fan of your last sculpt, the barbarian princess! Discovered the new shiva design randomly as I never played FFXIV, I really liked what they did with the concept art. Hopefully I don't disapoint for the rest of the character :)

    So small update again, I have tried blocking the hair a bit more so that it's not just that random weird shape.
    I've started creating the small detailing and border of her costume, still so much pieces missing, I feel like the neck part will add a lo of character once I finally get to it.

    Hope you guys like it 

  • Blade113
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    Blade113 polycounter lvl 2
    nice job so far :) wish you luck
  • Magihat
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    Magihat polycounter lvl 3
    I really like what you have so far and this is probably my favorite iteration of Shiva so that makes it extra exciting. Will keep a close eye on how this progresses!
  • Dragonar
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    Dragonar polycounter lvl 6
    so sexy and you knew it :p  really good job Marie ! as usual ^^
  • slosh
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    slosh polycounter lvl 9
    Looks really good so far!  A few nitpicky things...the cleft in her lower lip looks a bit exaggerated to me, that's all I focus on when I look at her face zoomed out.  The hair shapes on the front of her head all appear to be the same size and width...maybe vary that a little?  And also add a bit more deformation to the horns...in the concept they feel a tad more deformed and therefore natural while yours are perfectly straight and perfect spirals.  Looking forward to seeing more progress!
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    no HUGE progress here, some of it might not even show on the screenshot since you didnt see any side views of the hair.
    but basically I wasn't happy about the way it looked from the side, it kind of had a curved bringing the hair flow towards the body and I wasn't too happy with it.
    I'm still not even sure how I should tackle the hair in the low rez at this point, either as a sculpted mesh (I like to call them ''loaf of hair'') which is very stylised or with hair plane for a more realistic approach. Any opinion on this?

    So basically I mostly worked on the hair, the hair shape, made sure every ''horn'' had some hair spiraling around it so it didn't feel too out of place.

    @Blade113 @Dragonar Thank you!
    @Magihat Right? I really do like the style they went with that one, I went to check how the ingame model turned out and I was actually disapointed :( it so low rez you loose most of the cool details.
    @slosh Thank you! I'll double check the lower lip thingy but currently I'm pretty please with her overall face will see how I feel about the change. not exaclty sure what you mean but the size and width of the hair at front, I'm pretty visual so I'm not exaclty sure what you mean by that? I have reworked the entire hair area so hopefully I somehow fixed whatever you were talking about! I hadn't really worked on the horn yet, I did deform them a little bit more in this iterations but I'm definitly not done with them, will try to see what could make them look kind of cool.
    I saw that in the game they made them kind of stripey, a bit like bark/wood which I dont really love, I would like to maybe give them more of a crystal-ice look.




  • Leinadien
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    Leinadien vertex
    Great looking hair. :)


  • amirabd2130
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    amirabd2130 polycounter lvl 3
    looking forward to see this completed
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    @Leinadien Don't mean to sound rude but....You should be careful about giving other people some anatomy crits. Unless you are one of the amazing artist here (I'm thinking jacque choi and others) who have very strong knowledge of anatomy and followed Scott eaton's anatomy class, you might be giving very misinformed critic.
    The biggest issue, and why I am bringing this up here is your reference, If you want to critic anatomy, you should  be using actual photo, that reference you posted is not good at all. there is a LOT of issues in this image.

    @amirabd2130 thank you :)
  • Leinadien
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    Leinadien vertex
    The image I posted is of a 3d scanned human, so can't be too many issues with it. But if my criticism offends you I'll remove it, I'm sure you would know if something is off with your model. Good luck. ;)
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Leinadien said:
    The image I posted is of a 3d scanned human, so can't be too many issues with it. But if my criticism offends you I'll remove it, I'm sure you would know if something is off with your model. Good luck. ;)
    @Leinadien, I'm always glad to get some critics, unfortunatly the screenshot you posted is a 3d model and NOT a 3dscan as you claim it to be.
     This is frankly extremely misleading, and mischievous for you to try and convince people otherwise.

    you shouldn't be using those as reference to critic on anyone's else anatomy work, please stop


    Here's what you posted (and conveniently removed)


    Heres the *NOT*''scanned ''sketchfab model and the link to said piece. https://sketchfab.com/models/9a893bbdc050422d95c54f913a5707a2
    Which is a model made in daz3d/zbrush


    Sorry everyone for the witch hunt but.... just seriously, 

  • Leinadien
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    Leinadien vertex
    I wonder how you found that model, 3d scan or not it proves my point, the cut between the deltoid and bicep in your model is too harsh and there seems to be a slight bump at the lower part of her bicep, the area in which the bicep transitions into a tendon. There are proportional issues too, but you seem to be going for a stylized look to the character so that isn't as important.

    I'm no Scott Eaton but I'm quite sure I'm right on this and if I'm not you could simply ignore my criticism. No need to be offended you're a very talented artist, good luck to you. :)
  • gfelton
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    gfelton polycounter lvl 2
    Awesome sculpt, looking forward to seeing how it turns out! :)
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter lvl 10
    lol wtf?
    How the hell did you think that was a 3D Scan?

    - The interclavicular fossa goes into the middle of her boob
    - Both pecs look like they're a different size
    - Her boobs are shaped like sausages.

    That's an awful ref.

    Btw Tits modelled the lower part of the bicep 'pronated'. You're telling her to model it supinated:

    The bicep (tendon) stretches and condenses based on direction the hand is pointing:


    That 'crit' is a bit off-base when she modelled it posed neutrally. 
  • MrHobo
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    MrHobo polycounter lvl 6
    The breasts alone show thats not a scan, its a DAZ model as it says in the comments.
    Classy thing to do at this point is to not derail the thread any further and just fall on your sword. Leave it be.
    I wish I had something constructive to add to this thread but your progress is solid so far.
  • Leinadien
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    Leinadien vertex
    I never intended to derail the thread, you've done that yourself. And you seem hung up on the "3d scan", I could post an actual 3d scan and point out the same stuff. You guys seem to think you're above criticism because you've made a bunch of what looks to be cartoons in video games, jeez get over yourselves. But there's no point in cluttering this thread with some pointless argument, I wouldn't want that if it was my thread. Any moderator is free to delete these replies so ms Ttits can concentrate on her work. ;)
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 9
    Looking solid now with the enlarged headpiece and the deets are coming along great, nice subtle forms in the trims. Maybe to save time you could do a 'loaf' with alpha'd tips for the large forms of the hair and support that with alpha strips to add extra detail? I've never tried doing that though and it might be more trouble than it's worth trying to combine the two

    I was gonna comment on the anat crit but damn, jacque nailed it. My 2c would only be that definition of the type mentioned varies greatly depending on a person's build and so long as the muscles originate and terminate in the right place it's a pretty subjective thing.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir polycounter lvl 12
    looking at the concept, i was kinda expecting the thighs to be a lot bigger than they currently are... Someone like Nicole Mejia might be good reference for this i think:





    In particular, there's a lack of defined s-curve on the inside of the thigh on your model, and the crown of the femur could come out a bit. The concept has a tiny waist but huuuuuge hips, really push those forms :)
  • slosh
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    slosh polycounter lvl 9
    @Leinadien I'm no anatomy expert myself but I'm not seeing the issue you are describing about the deltoid or the bicep.  The clavicle looks fine to me too.  The only thing that sort of catches my eye are the boobs being slightly far apart at the center where they hang off the chest.  Marie, the hair looks much better now, you broke it up nicely with more chunks of varying sizes.  As for the horns, sounds like you have a direction in mind so don't listen to me, it was merely a personal preference!
  • Leinadien
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    Leinadien vertex

    Oh...I suppose the classy thing as this point would be to raise your wine glasses and tip your fedoras lol.
  • Magihat
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    Magihat polycounter lvl 3
    Why are you so salty Leinadien? For one thing the attitude you have got on display is very off-putting but your latest "comparison" is also a fallacy since the arms are not even positioned in the same way (which is why you had to flip the body to make the arm align). Just take a step back and recognize when to stop being persistent with spreading your misinfo and confusion. You are not helping anyone.

    @Tits Yeah, I agree about the ingame model being disappointing. A couple of design liberties taken with that does not sit well with me especially since the concept is so beautiful. From what I have seen so far I like your interpretation better.
  • radiancef0rge
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    radiancef0rge Polycount Sponsor
    @Leinadien bruh youre pissing people off in the community who arent even actively commenting on this thread by being a troll. 
    @Tits love it. 
  • MrHobo
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    MrHobo polycounter lvl 6
    @Leinadien
    Read what JacqueChoi wrote again. When the hand is rotated out (Palms out) it causes the bicep to rotate in the position you have in your example, when the hand is in (palms facing your thigh), the bicep will appear like what is in the sculpt. There is some wiggle room based on how far the rotation is but the sculpt falls well within acceptable boundaries.
    You can actually stand and do it yourself in the mirror and see the effect.
    If I am off in what Ive written and if anyone with more anatomical knowledge than me reads this please by all means correct me.
    Having said that... Just stop. Leave it be.
  • killnpc
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    killnpc polycounter lvl 6
    Looks great!
  • slosh
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    slosh polycounter lvl 9
    MrHobo and Jacque have already explained it spot on.  @Leinadien
    This is not a "we hate you" or "we hate anatomy" or "we hate anatomy crits"...you're just flat out wrong about what you have stated this time around.  No big deal, learn from your mistakes, and improve.  
  • Asura
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    Asura polycounter lvl 2
    @Tits
    Honestly I think this is really solid so far. The forms and proportions fit the character and style of the concept well. I think you hit the nail on the head with this one! 

    I really curious to learn how will you be blocking out the shoulder pads and boot details?
    :)
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Hello again!
    Update on the character.
    @JacqueChoi thanks for the amazing and in depth explanation as always, them boobs really do look like sausages
    @MrHobo thanks for pitching in the thread as always, can be hard to find perfect reference picture as the hand do influence the anatomy of the arm quite a lot. I do believe, like you said, that the arm falls under ''acceptable boundaries''.But My anatomy is far from being perfect
    @tda Yah I'm thinking about maybe trying to do a mix of loaf of hair + plane which I have done in the past but I haven't always been 100% happy with the outcome so I might have to try couple of things, Will see how it goes, I'm sure i'll find a way .
    @almighty_gir  Hey lee, thanks for the crits, I do agree she got quite some legs in that concept but I'm not really a fan of the look/reference you are giving me here, we are probably talking personnal preference also here.
     I feel this is a bit too ''rounded'', classic squat legs wich are really ''in'' at the moment but doesn't reflect what's in the concept so well (In my opinion) .
    I do want her to have an impressive pair of legs but I don't want to go all chun li up there. I did rework the leg tho, not sure how subtle it is, I added more of a curved to them and made them a tad bigger.
    @slosh great crit on the boobs part, didn't see it at all until you point it out. Didn't want to go for the two sphere kind of boobs with massive cleavage, was trying to keep the breast natural but I guess maybe I let them do their own thing a lil too much, I bring them girls back together where they belong.
    @Magihat Thanks man, hopefully you like the final result :)
    @radiancef0rge thanks brah
    @killnpc Thanks man!
    @Asura Thank you, glad you enjoy the progress so far.
    I improvise quite a lot actually, I never have quite a ''plan'' when it comes to each part, I decide as I go. I haven't really figured out the boots quite yet. For the shoulder area which you can see now I just made a quick basemesh in 3ds max which I moved and adjusted in zbrush. Made couple of different subtools for the borders and other detailing. if you have any specific question i'd be happy to answer..

    So heres the big changes that were made
    worked on the shape of the hair to leave some space for the collar (oops, tight spot there!!)
    Bring the girls together
    Adjusted the shape of the legs
    Rework the deltoid-tricep area based on a crit i received in personnal messages, thanks @Oaken for the heads up!
    Added the necklace and also some tiny pieces of jewellery at a couple of places in the costume design.
    started working on the shoulder-neck area

    I believe that's all for now :)
    ugh I'm just noticing now there is stuff bugging me about the shape of her collar, I think it should be higher, what do you guys think?
    Will have to rework that area.



  • TomGT
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    TomGT polycounter lvl 2
    Looking great!  I agree the collar could be higher and popped out more. The pointy shapes I like, looks fitting for her overall clothing style.
  • Cremuss
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    Cremuss polycounter lvl 7
    I wasn't a fan of the first armor WIP shots but I gotta say it's turning great. I'm still not super fan of the "Z"-lighting shape of the armor on the front of the upperleg but that's from the original concept so... :) The collar looks fine to me like that, I like seeing some neck area. Maybe make it a bit wider like TomGT pointed out though?
  • DanniHindi
    My god! I want to be able to do this one day... This looks so incredible! Can't wait to see the end result :)
  • Leinadien
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    Leinadien vertex
    She still has a tumor on her bicep, but whatever it won't be noticable unless she becomes really sweaty and the specularity reveals it and you'll probably cover it with that gauntlet anyway. On a more positive note this will probably look amazing when textured, are you going to stick to the colors that are in the latest final fantasy game or are you going to modify them. Maybe you could take inspiration from these? Keep up the good work. ;)

  • Rickpwnz
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    Rickpwnz polycounter lvl 2
    Nice progress Tits ! I really like her body shapes. Also cloth/armor looks nice and dynamic. Want to see more progress :)
  • jacob thomas
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    jacob thomas polycounter lvl 3
    She is looking great @Tits, really good vibes on this one. I can't wait to see her all sparkly and pimped out.
    With the collar, I was thinking it would look nice if you mirrored the curve in her armour... Kinda like this.


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