Sharing tips vs keeping tricks to yourself
polycounter lvl 8
This has me wondering for almost since I can remember being a designer/artist... Whenever you find a good resource, a game changer technique or a platform to find work online, do you keep it all to yourself in order to void competition or share it with the people you know? Why?
Replies
If you're relying on secret tricks to keep yourself ahead of others, you're probably not that good :P
There was always this typical student, that would find a new tools or some secrets tips and each time, you would ask help, he would just reply by:
Go watch some turotials'' or ''just look and earn by yourself''
A much better strategy is to share everything cool you come across so you can benefit from other people sharing and refining things.
When I was a Jr. in art school a sophomore asked me and another classmate for help on achieving a hologram effect on his project. mainly he did not understand how transparency worked or how to cause a flicker on the texture. we started explaining how to adjust the transparency for the material. and while we were talking for some reason he decided to tell us that when he learns something he does not tell anyone because he wants to be the best. My friend and I instantly stopped helping. Why should we help someone out who basically said if our roles were reversed he would not help us.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be the best. I imagine everyone wants to be the best. but if you want someone to help you out someday you should probably be willing to return the favor. That one trick on workflow is not going to instantly make them a better artist than you. and if it does, they will remember it and help you out when they can. If its one thing I have learned about the game industry is that everyone seems cool with helping each other out.
In my graduating class there was a group of about 6 of us who were always in the animation lab so we eventually all became friends. We would help each other out when one of us did not know how to do something. 6 people learning different things and sharing with each other is a way better way of learning than trying to figure it out all on your own.
Technically you are going to be competing for jobs with the people you know. but you are also competing with thousands or more people for those jobs as well. so what if someone you know gets a job before you. if you helped them out and are a good artist, when a position opens up they could suggest you.
Also Teaching people is one of the best ways to improve your own skills.
Than on top of this, once you work in a studio you work as a team, and you will succeed or fail as a team as well.
Keeping things to yourself is selfish.
Educate others and they will educate you - otherwise you're on your own, and that's not a nice place to be.
For me its simple, if i got the information for free, like somebody shared their knowledge with me, i would share it too. If i found it out by myself, i 'd likely keep it for myself.
If i would know something which would give me an advantage over somebody and i am in a very competetive enviroment (and we are in that enviroment as much as i dislike it) i would be dumb to give my knowledge away and help the competitors. At the end of the day i want that job/money/fame, and if my knowledge is the key i use it.
Basicly i am acting like a mirror. You play nice with me, i do the same. You share your secrets, i share mine. You behave like a bloodsucker, i cut you out of my life.
Works for most situations.
I view sharing as spreading kindness. Although I will take it to a certain extent, me writing something and sharing it to a bunch of people if I'm in the mood and have freetime is something that I'll do. But then there are also people who come off as annoying in constantly pestering you on how to explain something that will take you multiple hours to explain to them as a single person specifically and they want basically free training. That's when I kind of get annoyed and start saying go use google...
But yeah nothing's wrong with sharing! Otherwise there probably wouldn't be Polycount as we know it.
I see people act like they've amassed this treasure trove of clandestine industry secrets, that inexplicably "voids" other artists, and it seems a little bit delusional. You seriously think you're the only one learning and keeping up to date, eh?
Like... Good job dude. Through rigorous googling you've found helpful blogs and tutorials, and have amassed their glorious secrets for your own dastardly artistic purposes.
None can stand against you now!
https://www.pinterest.com/PyrZern/boards/
It's amazing to be constantly humbled by talent around you and just feel like every day you're becoming more badass because of them.
Nothing is worse than a trying to collaborate with a guy that refuses to learn and work off each other. It's a death sentence to group creativity.
In order to discover great new ideas and techniques as a group, you need common understanding. Every answered question raises that individual closer to a common understanding. Their application rises them further; Encourage this in others. Our individual strengths are fortified, and as each individual is raised, the group as a whole rises. There is no resource more rewarding.
I strive to surround myself with intelligent people and I see intelligence in many forms. Sometimes that can mean making them intelligent. This encourages me to study to know something to share. I want my group to be as well informed and capable as possible. My motivation for sharing what I know, is based on the notion that the more they know the better equipped and motivated they will be to help me and the rest of the group.
I'd recommend sharing what you know and give appreciation to those that share. You can learn a great deal by sharing, and sharing gains you favor amongst your community.
It is easy to identify a leech. I have no solution here. An enclosed and competitive environment strains the creative spirit like I've never experienced. It discourages the sharing of ideas, it aims to enforce ideas as secrets, to own and control them and I have no solution here.
I do know that if you become angry, frustrated, and withdraw, you will unravel. If this sharing of information breaks down, there is no give and take and you are allowing yourself to be consumed. The group as a whole becomes damaged, the group learns less and members become alone, momentum plateaus, and have nothing to give. If you are not sharing, your group is not growing and you might as well be alone. Do not withdraw. It is a long lonely path with a dead end.
"Detachment becomes the solution, blindly unaware that such apathy is the vice that it mocks."
Nothing. DT isnt bad. I'm just keeping all the juicy stuff to myself now. Fresh learners cling to DT stuff anyway and always disregard the cooler stuff.
True dat.
Nuff said.
The OP and this selfish archetype we are describing does not remotely come close to the reality I know??
It's been my experience that even before the internet one could easily seek out any famous painter, cinematographer, sculptor etc...
And in every instance such a potential mentor has always recognized and rewarded the like-minded, eager and those willing to learn by sharing the benefit of their experience usually with the same enthusiasm!
( for someone that shares their same passions/interest. )
If u can't pick your family. You can certainly pick your tribe. Made a lot easier than it once was before the internet
( compared to snail mail and phone correspondence
A better title for such a thread that is truly representative of our esprit de corps should probably be more along the lines of:
"Why are creative people so willing to share what other groups selfishly reserve as trade secrets?"
Unless...
My experience is not the norm??
Have others had a different experience than that of responsibility to contribution and open source? :eek:
Otherwise we are describing a non issue?
There will always be RTFM! But that is hardly the same thing.
If u think about it...
One gets his a$$ handed an RTFM for the same reason the aforementioned mentor is so willing to enthusiastically discuss shop till the sun rises.
( i.e. You get respect for a shared passion when you show an investment/respect for that interest! e.g. Perhaps by cracking open and pouring thru the proverbial manual fer instance )
For that very same reason I won't take a chance on Polycount search
( perhaps the upgrade will bring reliable Polycount searches? )
And will research Polycount with Google instead so I do not come across as disrespectful/Lazy to a particular issue when I ask others to invest their time and expertise on a subject that might be easily researched myself instead?
Seems as if necro-ing a thread makes a lot of sense if one wants to add new ground to a topic/issue?
"Don't understand objections to resurrection."
When the alternative forces the topic/issue into disparate avenues that makes as much harder to search also making any subsequent progression very difficult to follow?
I once got shit because I had encryption on an script I was still working on but shared, but it wasn't because I didn't want to share it but because my code was a horrible mess and I wanted time to fix it, while other could still make use of it and share their thoughts about it. But when asked I always explained what I did and showed examples of it, not hiding what it was.
Either way, holding on to some kind of SUPER-SECRET-TRCK-OF-TRADE is just stupid, and selfish, and doesn't promote anything, not even for yourself, because you will not see anything new come out of keeping it to yourself, which means yourself won't get any benefits from it.
I know I love collaborating with creative people who want to work as a group and want to make the best possible product so they help everyone else succeed. I don't want to work with back stabbing dicks who try to boost themselves by trying to hold others back.
Employers want people who actually are skilled at what they do and lead the pack by being the best And they don't want people who are the best only when the competition is hobbled artificially. Especially when they will be trying to hobble other members of your team.
Ultimately these people fail and work their way out of the system as they are often untrustworthy and cause all kinds of internal failures to cascade out of control, often snowballing and sinking projects or just causing a lot of confusion and headaches.
All for what? To try and make themselves look good? They just look like an ass who doesn't work well in a collaborative team environment.
Besides one way to boost your reputation is to be the go-to person for info sharing, knowledge and finder of cool things. It's a form of networking and the more you do for people, the more likely they will remember you fondly. All of the jobs and freelance I've landed have come directly from helping other grow and expand what they do and how they do it. I wouldn't be anywhere if I was a hoarder.
Keeping mind that sharing company secrets is often even more taboo and often frowned upon by employers, obviously. But sharing general stuff and helpful tips is great, it helps others and yourself.
1. At some point, someone will either reverse engineer or come up with a better technique, making your secret look outdated.
2. There's no "actual" secrets in art. Camera's exist so we already know what life looks like. So it really boils down to artist ability.
Honestly I think sharing and being helpful to your peers actually increases your chance of getting a job versus possibly taking one away from you. Five out of five of my jobs relevant to art (stop motion teacher assistant for a middle-school kids summer camp, 3D artist on a paid research project in college, aftereffects/puppet tool animation on a children's book in college, freelance art director/3D modeler and animator at an ad agency for 2 years, and now my salary job working as an environment artist on a naval simulator were because someone who I was either friendly with, worked with, or shared information with recommended or offered me the job.
Basically what I'm saying from my early-medium? career experience over the last few years is that being nice and helping a peer can pay off 10 fold later on. I wouldn't of even known about those jobs if it wasn't for someone telling me about them thinking I'd be a good fit for who they're looking for.
That is all.
so only realism is art?
and i don't think this is about "art" art, but like production workflows, shortcuts and such.
but i agree keeping secrets doesn't make much sense. some things tho will have to remain personal, if only because someone signed a NDA
Your idea will go out, get mixed and improved. That is the best thing.
There is not much I can share, usually if I think I made something new or different, a couple of other people did already
So there's no point in worrying about it. That info only exists in one person's mind. All you can do is be suspicious that they have a secret.
Okay, okay. I fess up. The burden is too much!
I don't use shift key anymore when adding or subtracting selections when using Photoshop lasso tool. It's easier to just click one of the modes buttons.
There.
I'm FREEE! :poly136:
YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO TAKE THAT TO YOUR GRAVE!
But I haven't disclosed yet to the wider world how using scans of real people solves a lot of anatomy second guessing and laborious basemesh creation from scratch. :poly122:
Just wait for the big discount sale though.
*cough*https://www.gameilluminati.com/ *cough*
Guys like Vlambeer and other indie devs are way cooler though
One best thing of many, importable to zbrush. :thumbup:
Sharing ideas, and teaching other people stuff you've figured out is a great way to understand it better yourself.
But that brings up a question... Why do certain companies ban things like wire frame shots in your portfolio?
certain companies? is there a list?
it's probably because they just don't want that discussion with their staff so they do a blanket 'no breakdowns of work' rule so as to not have the odd one out reveal whatever they might actually consider some trade secret?
That and if its from big enough of a studio and you have worked on some big time games. do you really need to see the wire frames? I mean if there is any real doubt in the persons ability they will give them an art test.
just an example:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150006