And for good measure, World of Tanks is really pushing the realism bar. As always there are imitators popping up, so if information (even some steps) on how to achieve that quality is freely available you'd make their job easier, they'd have a better chance of competing and you'll hurt your sales.
And for good measure, World of Tanks is really pushing the realism bar. As always there are imitators popping up, so if information (even some steps) on how to achieve that quality is freely available you'd make their job easier, they'd have a better chance of competing and you'll hurt your sales.
that's true. But some talks at GDC and what not will go so far into details, and in some cases, even show code clips and stuff. or rigging solutions that make things more realistic. It's just strange why some things are kept secret, while others arent. *shrug*
I'm curious where everyone here would be, if everything was kept a secret. I'd be surprised if anyone here learned everything they know, without watching/reading a tutorial, or having something demonstrated to them by a friend/coworker.
I think your results are what make you stand out. Not necessarily the techniques that got you there.
Just imagine where the industry would be if the early pioneers kept their work to themselves.
Every single person using a computer in their work stands on the shoulders of giants. Locking down 'secrets' doesn't give you an edge, it just helps to build a wall between yourself and the broader community.
It's just strange why some things are kept secret, while others arent. *shrug*
it's a mentality thing. there are studios where staff from team A is locked out of team B's digs via keycard access. some places do not put credits in their games for fear of recruiters luring people away. or if they do, they remove job titles entirely for that reason.
at one place we once had some pretty cool inhouse tech unlike what was standard at the time. i remember my boss considering the idea of showing that at GDC crazy talk.
another funny thing that might fit into that - once a place i worked at posted an image from a then recent project on CGTalk (back when that forum was big). it made top row pretty quick and people started asking technical questions. one current polycounter in particular proved insistent. he had his then-employer listed in his signature.
next i heard the bosses went into frenzy, locking communications down because in their mind that meant that this company was now inquiring about how we do things.
At some point you'll want to give something back because there's SO much sharing of knowledge and technology going on already.
When I shared refBoard, my family was like, "Why?", and when it was copied, it hurt a little, but I've never regretted giving it away to the community because I've learned so much from everyone else... for free.
As stupid as it sounds, this reminds me years ago when in my class, students were all starting 3D.
There was always this typical student, that would find a new tools or some secrets tips and each time, you would ask help, he would just reply by:
Go watch some tutorials'' or ''just look and earn by yourself''
This right here is what i would suffer quite a bit at university.
I would see something cool and ask about it, or get stuck and ask for help and get the same dam line from allot of people.
Really put a downer on my university experience.
The idea that everybody is competition is pretty toxic and depressing. I wanna make games and art because its fun, not because i want to make lots of money etc.
Artists tend to make less than the other disciplines anyway
And for good measure, World of Tanks is really pushing the realism bar. As always there are imitators popping up, so if information (even some steps) on how to achieve that quality is freely available you'd make their job easier, they'd have a better chance of competing and you'll hurt your sales.
what a load of nonsense
it's just polygons and textures, what should there be in these files that pavel could disclose that nobody else knows, besides his experience of course? He will not post their shaders, their lighting system and whatnot. It looks good because he is experienced and not because some dark voodoo magic has been done with either the polygons or the textures. You certainly can shortcut some tasks with the right knowledge, but you can not shortcut experience.
If you need tanks of that quality, just hit up Pavel and hire him.
Not necessarily about the files (texture sheets or wires), but about workflow and methods. And even with files, someone wants to make a tank game, finds his breakdowns, it's easier as in "oh, look how this guy did it". For example where to keep geometry, when to rely on normal maps, how to tune gloss textures, etc, it would be right in your face taking his break-down tank as example, especially if you have to model another tank.
Or how to make welds, how to bake them right, sure you can figure it out, but do you really want to help some copycat company that's in it for the money by serving them with a step-by-step? And there *are* plenty of World of Tanks clones around!
if i am not mistaken, he is a freelancer. Of course he would use whatever workflow which makes him deliver faster and better results. Unless it is proprietary tech obviously.
At one point any production will end, and a freelancer will get hired, probably in a similar field. How should they reset their knowledge?
Of course if we get hired for a new project and see something is slower than it should be, or not up to par with previous productions we will try to introduce workflows which enhance the clients product.
Not everyone is willing, but as said most stuff is not black magic or made by a secret society.
That doesn't mean we sell trade secret to the next client, there are many internal things which can not go public.
But this is just work, done by experienced artists and as said, there is no shortcut to experience.
On a side not. I do remember one guy in college telling me he could not share his set of brushes he downloaded from the internet with me because he didn't want the rest of the school to have the same tools as he does.
This was a few days after he asked me if he could use a model of a car i had made and shared with everyone. lol.
Some people are just insecure about themselves and think that the tools are what makes them a better artist. Its the other way around tho.... I wonder where he ended up. No hard feelings either. I just thought having some grunge brushes already made was handy... i ended up making my own set of brushes and then sharing them to people.
Ok so i think the overwelming majority is open to share, but how do you deal with people who are not open and keep stuff to themselfes (while taking and profiting from all the freebees) ?
Do you ignore that and still share with them to teach by example?
Do you mirror them, and hold back so they see it from the (non-)receiving end?
I would tend to option 2, but not because i like to be mean, but rather to protect myself from wasting time...
I am a highly sensitive person, i might overeact a little, because people like that irritate me and get me out of my flow too easy.
I probably wouldn't go out of my way to help them, especially if it means that I take a lot of time to detail some process. If its a simple question I might just answer it, but then again if anyone else asks I'm probably going to answer it also.
If I thought it would be useful to more people, I would more than likely share it, publicly and give them a link. They get the info but they don't get the chance to locked it up.
Throw it out there for all to see and if it's useful to them great but don't be an enabler to their dick-ish ways.
but how do you deal with people who are not open and keep stuff to themselfes (while taking and profiting from all the freebees) ?
This happened a week or two ago where someone was caught selling prints of others' work. Essentially, you get blacklisted in that community and reported to any art community you affiliate with online because technically you've committed a felony in many countries. So for example, if you're caught pirating art here; deviant art, artstation and cgtalk would most like find out as well. You would be removed from all four sites. If you have a personal portfolio hosted by anyone that can be notified, that might be taken down as well.
When people share knowledge, it's usually more with the community at large. When they share actual assets, they usually know the risk that the asset might get "re"sold, but again, that's a pretty dumb move.
This happened a week or two ago where someone was caught selling prints of others' work. Essentially, you get blacklisted in that community and reported to any art community you affiliate with online because technically you've committed a felony in many countries. So for example, if you're caught pirating art here; deviant art, artstation and cgtalk would most like find out as well. You would be removed from all four sites. If you have a personal portfolio hosted by anyone that can be notified, that might be taken down as well.
When people share knowledge, it's usually more with the community at large. When they share actual assets, they usually know the risk that the asset might get "re"sold, but again, that's a pretty dumb move.
I don't think this was his point.
It's not about taking someones assets and selling it.
Just profiting (as gaining experience) from others, while keeping personal info to themselved.
Basically being all selfish, taking whatever they can but not giving anything.
As artists, we shouldn't view this as a competition against each other. The struggle to get better, is a competition with ourselves, to be better than we've ever been. We are all allies who help each other fight the common issues, that all of us face.
I'm going to help you fight your enemy, which I know, isn't me or the artist next to us.
It's an easy trap to fall into, especially for younger artists. When you are only connected to a handful of people its easier to tear others down or try to hold them back. But that's not how someone actually gets better, that just makes someone appear better for a short period of time. It's short lived because they can't hold everyone back and they really don't know how to actually get better.
To actually improve, they have to figure out what is really holding them back and work on that. If it is a fellow artists, its easy to drop them and
Instead they spend too much time and energy on trying to keep others from advancing. They are standing in the fog, trying to hold onto shadows. Meanwhile the people who know exactly who their enemy is, they are winning the real fight. They get better, they land the jobs and they stick around the industry.
There are points in everyone's career/life that they will have to take and they won't be able to give back, but that is rare. More often, even in the same situation, they will be in a position to help someone else. I'm not Bill Gates, I don't have my own foundation but I can help those around me with what I do have.
People will judge you by the attitude you have when you need to take and by the choices you make when you are in a position to give back.
In the long run you will probably get your name out there and do better professionally if you share a lot of good methods and techniques. The more people that know your name and associate it with great work and a helpful personality, the better.
For example where to keep geometry, when to rely on normal maps, how to tune gloss textures, etc, it would be right in your face taking his break-down tank as example, especially if you have to model another tank.
Or how to make welds, how to bake them right, sure you can figure it out, but do you really want to help some copycat company that's in it for the money by serving them with a step-by-step? And there *are* plenty of World of Tanks clones around!
All the things you're listing are either heuristics which take lots of experience to internalize or else small tricks that aren't a significant part of the job. Someone can tell you polygon distribution matters but you still have to make a lot of models to figure out the when, where, how, and why in such a way that you can apply the rule in any arbitrary situation. Someone can tell you how to milk a cow but that doesn't mean you know how to do it until you can go to the barn with a pail and come back with milk.
As for techniques for making welds, that's so minor; holistic skill is valuable, not little tricks and techniques, because there's a lot of ways to skin a cat and experience is what allows you to choose the right one in the moment.
All the things you're listing are either heuristics which take lots of experience to internalize or else small tricks that aren't a significant part of the job. Someone can tell you polygon distribution matters but you still have to make a lot of models to figure out the when, where, how, and why in such a way that you can apply the rule in any arbitrary situation. Someone can tell you how to milk a cow but that doesn't mean you know how to do it until you can go to the barn with a pail and come back with milk.
As for techniques for making welds, that's so minor; holistic skill is valuable, not little tricks and techniques, because there's a lot of ways to skin a cat and experience is what allows you to choose the right one in the moment.
hey, I'm just giving some random examples, someone was wondering on why no wires/no texture sheets/no tri count etc for WoT. My point was that the secrecy on WoT breakdowns is justified since they have the best looking tanks out there, and two, they were in such troubles with clones of their game, were some tanks were copied even with flaws and everything! That's it, I'm not arguing about what is valuable to an artist or not, this was much simpler.
Making welds, that was another example of tips and tricks to help you, a random example. I never said what's important or not. A random artist working on a "MMO tank game" stumbles on a breakdown on how to get some of the best looking welds - also assured to bake well and also sees how to map them, how bake them, etc - suddenly their job is easier, maybe just by a little, maybe by a lot. Are you saying it's okay to share this with everyone, in the context of you working on the leading game in the genre? Where players join just for the graphics and drool at your welds?
Ok so i think the overwelming majority is open to share, but how do you deal with people who are not open and keep stuff to themselfes (while taking and profiting from all the freebees) ?
Who are these people and what secret knowledge do you suspect them of possessing?
the thing is this is all very noble and all, but there are a lot of competitive people in the industry. some people would n't part with their own shite and would try their best to make sure you fail.
most games artists are very altruistic, but it's not always the case with the few individuals who hide their work/techniqes from you. they don't seem to suffer and in fact end up doing very well for themselves.
I personally would always share my techniques with fellow polycounters, but I am not always convinced that my techniques are that easy to digest as my work is a bit random and haphazard.
Sharing techniques and writing tutorials is one of the most positive things you can do for your career. It's a fantastic way to market yourself and show expertise. Overlooking this aspect due to paranoia is very foolish. Even if you totally ignore the ethical question of sharing knowledge and helping other artists grow, there are real, direct and perfectly self-serving reasons to be open about your workflow.
Fearing that you're giving away all your secrets is delusional nonsense, the reason any game artist is good isn't because he knows more tricks than another guy, it's the sum of his experience, and often quite critically, the taste level of the artist. You can learn how to make a weld or whatever, but it's much harder to learn taste and how to apply techniques in an appealing manner. It's not the tools you use or the specific techniques but how you apply that to your work.
I really love this community and how people help each other out with feedback and tools of the trade, it's been invaluable for anyone growing as an artist. On the other hand, I will not name any names but many times I have seen people keeping things to themselves.
Over the past 10 years I have been on and off polycount, I have see some very well regarded artists withhold stuff. They promise to share their workflow tricks and working scripts which are simple and trivial even multiple times over the course of several years. Stuff that would help everybody out immensely.
Besides that though it is still difficult to know what workflows and pipelines people in the industry are using these days. That seems to be a well kept secret. If it wasn't for people like Earthquake, perna and AlecMoody & the others who has made those informative threads, we'd be in the stone age of art. Honestly where else could we get information like that without working in-house? I do wish the other veterans and industry professionals would help more with essential info like that.
Sharing techniques and writing tutorials is one of the most positive things you can do for your career. It's a fantastic way to market yourself and show expertise. Overlooking this aspect due to paranoia is very foolish. Even if you totally ignore the ethical question of sharing knowledge and helping other artists grow, there are real, direct and perfectly self-serving reasons to be open about your workflow.
Fearing that you're giving away all your secrets is delusional nonsense, the reason any game artist is good isn't because he knows more tricks than another guy, it's the sum of his experience, and often quite critically, the taste level of the artist. You can learn how to make a weld or whatever, but it's much harder to learn taste and how to apply techniques in an appealing manner. It's not the tools you use or the specific techniques but how you apply that to your work.
I think we can end this debate with the above. :poly121:
I have see some very well regarded artists withhold stuff. They promise to share their workflow tricks and working scripts which are simple and trivial even multiple times over the course of several years. Stuff that would help everybody out immensely.
well they may not intended to withhold stuff. they could have just gotten busy as soon as they were done posting the project they were working on.
I have see some very well regarded artists withhold stuff. They promise to share their workflow tricks and working scripts which are simple and trivial even multiple times over the course of several years. Stuff that would help everybody out immensely.
People get busy, also it is not always easy to teach a lot of things that come from experience. When most people want to post something they want to actually do a good job at it as well, and that takes time and effort which a lot of people dont have.
Yeah, it's a really entitled viewpoint to assume that anytime someone says they'll share a tip or make a tutorial but don't get around to it that it's a sign that they're not willing to share. People are busy, most well known guys have fulltime onsite or freelance work, and putting in the time not only to share a technique but to make sure what you're putting out there is of a quality you'll be proud of is far from a trivial amount of effort.
A lot of exceptionally talented artists lack the confidence, or simply undervalue their skillset to the point where they don't feel like they have anything unique to share, which prevents them from posting break downs or tutorials. This is a really unfortunate problem, but I think it's actually very common.
In reality, there are very few artists in this industry who are actively apposed to sharing information. I've met none I can even think of by name in my career. I'm not saying they don't exist, but that they are in the minority.
People are busy, most well known guys have fulltime onsite or freelance work, and putting in the time not only to share a technique but to make sure what you're putting out there is of a quality you'll be proud of is far from a trivial amount of effort.
I started putting together a series of tutorials for environment artists on interior construction details based on my experience as a commmercial electrician.
Things like fire alarm, sprinklers, switches, wall plates, junction boxes, light fixtures, ceiling tiles, joists, exit signs, etc. It's almost always done wrong because artists don't have a concise guide or experience telling them how and where to place all these things.
It just takes way too long to make tutorials at the high standards people demand. Making a complete 3D environment at AAA quality with accurate measurements and blueprints just isn't possible with my time schedule. I have a full time job in the industry plus a family. What little free time I have is spent earning extra money by developing asset packages, new skills or my own games.
I also looked into writing a book. I would probably have to spend a year part-time writing it and would make around $4,000 US.
Same goes for other areas of technical art, like particles, scripting, finite state machines in blueprint and playmaker, etc. I can't justify the massive time it would take.
I know you're busy and all, but.... That would really be incredibly useful.
Have you found any electrician's guides online that spell it out fairly simply, with minimal technical terms?
Unfortunately, no. There are simplified codes, but even those are filled with lots of non-relevant info.
It's not just electrical, it's about things like what's behind walls and ceiling tiles. If you shoot a ceiling tile out, what do you see?
I would want to do full 3d walk-throughs with before and after in an engine like Unreal or Unity. I think people really need to see the difference all of the construction details would make.
But yeah, it takes a shitload of work to make high-quality training material that is clear and accurate. I started with blueprints from actual construction sites and it took too much time from my personal life.
People are busy, most well known guys have fulltime onsite or freelance work, and putting in the time not only to share a technique but to make sure what you're putting out there is of a quality you'll be proud of is far from a trivial amount of effort.
It was actually a simple maxscript that took me several days to learn myself as a beginner (which has been obsolete the past few years with certain software) . A person who knows they are that busy shouldn't keep promising they'll give it to people 10+ times over the course of 5 years. Making that script on my own obviously resonated a lot of annoyance when it would have taken several minutes by a pro After that many years it just starts to sound like an old uncle Ben promising to always catch a beer with you but never does.
Eh, you sound pretty bitter, if it's really that important to you, just figure it out yourself. Apparently you did, but it took you 5 years to do so? Must not have been a big deal, so it seems really petty to rant about it here.
Counting on other people to do stuff for you, for free, and then complaining when they don't is more of a reflection on you than it is them. It's great when it happens, but it should never be expected.
The question bears asking, after you wrote the maxscript, did you share it?
This also brings up the point where people are asking for stuff, that either you or other people have answered countless times before. You don't bother because you think that person might be too lazy to do minimal research or that them figuring it out on their own would be more beneficial.
I wouldn't tell people where I am getting my work from, but I would be happy to tell them some techniques and aspects of my workflow, I just wouldn't tell them everything. There are somethings people should know and there other things they shouldn't.
Everything I know about game art, and art in general, is because someone somewhere decided to share his knowledge with others. The least thing I can do is to share it with others aswell. It's like torrent, after you leech, you should seed.
I wish this was required reading for everyone. The mindset of a knowledge-sharer, and how to work with them to find answers to your queries. How To Ask Questions The Smart Way Just replace "hackers" with "pro 3d artists" or really any dedicated digital community.
Also, I wish people shared on the wiki more often. It's wide open, and free, and very helpful for others.
listen if someones determined they will figure out what you are doing or find an even better route without your help, now the key is are they going to remember you as the person who pointed them in the right direction, or the asshole who dismissed them entirely?
Kindness can be as simple as blurting what keywords to google, it doesn't take much even if you don't have much time.
Replies
that's true. But some talks at GDC and what not will go so far into details, and in some cases, even show code clips and stuff. or rigging solutions that make things more realistic. It's just strange why some things are kept secret, while others arent. *shrug*
I think your results are what make you stand out. Not necessarily the techniques that got you there.
Every single person using a computer in their work stands on the shoulders of giants. Locking down 'secrets' doesn't give you an edge, it just helps to build a wall between yourself and the broader community.
it's a mentality thing. there are studios where staff from team A is locked out of team B's digs via keycard access. some places do not put credits in their games for fear of recruiters luring people away. or if they do, they remove job titles entirely for that reason.
at one place we once had some pretty cool inhouse tech unlike what was standard at the time. i remember my boss considering the idea of showing that at GDC crazy talk.
another funny thing that might fit into that - once a place i worked at posted an image from a then recent project on CGTalk (back when that forum was big). it made top row pretty quick and people started asking technical questions. one current polycounter in particular proved insistent. he had his then-employer listed in his signature.
next i heard the bosses went into frenzy, locking communications down because in their mind that meant that this company was now inquiring about how we do things.
When I shared refBoard, my family was like, "Why?", and when it was copied, it hurt a little, but I've never regretted giving it away to the community because I've learned so much from everyone else... for free.
This right here is what i would suffer quite a bit at university.
I would see something cool and ask about it, or get stuck and ask for help and get the same dam line from allot of people.
Really put a downer on my university experience.
The idea that everybody is competition is pretty toxic and depressing. I wanna make games and art because its fun, not because i want to make lots of money etc.
Artists tend to make less than the other disciplines anyway
what a load of nonsense
it's just polygons and textures, what should there be in these files that pavel could disclose that nobody else knows, besides his experience of course? He will not post their shaders, their lighting system and whatnot. It looks good because he is experienced and not because some dark voodoo magic has been done with either the polygons or the textures. You certainly can shortcut some tasks with the right knowledge, but you can not shortcut experience.
If you need tanks of that quality, just hit up Pavel and hire him.
Or how to make welds, how to bake them right, sure you can figure it out, but do you really want to help some copycat company that's in it for the money by serving them with a step-by-step? And there *are* plenty of World of Tanks clones around!
I doubt he could work for a competing company doing a similar game, and bring forward all the knowledge and shortcuts learned at wargaming
At one point any production will end, and a freelancer will get hired, probably in a similar field. How should they reset their knowledge?
Of course if we get hired for a new project and see something is slower than it should be, or not up to par with previous productions we will try to introduce workflows which enhance the clients product.
Not everyone is willing, but as said most stuff is not black magic or made by a secret society.
That doesn't mean we sell trade secret to the next client, there are many internal things which can not go public.
But this is just work, done by experienced artists and as said, there is no shortcut to experience.
Do you ignore that and still share with them to teach by example?
Do you mirror them, and hold back so they see it from the (non-)receiving end?
I would tend to option 2, but not because i like to be mean, but rather to protect myself from wasting time...
I am a highly sensitive person, i might overeact a little, because people like that irritate me and get me out of my flow too easy.
If I thought it would be useful to more people, I would more than likely share it, publicly and give them a link. They get the info but they don't get the chance to locked it up.
Throw it out there for all to see and if it's useful to them great but don't be an enabler to their dick-ish ways.
This happened a week or two ago where someone was caught selling prints of others' work. Essentially, you get blacklisted in that community and reported to any art community you affiliate with online because technically you've committed a felony in many countries. So for example, if you're caught pirating art here; deviant art, artstation and cgtalk would most like find out as well. You would be removed from all four sites. If you have a personal portfolio hosted by anyone that can be notified, that might be taken down as well.
When people share knowledge, it's usually more with the community at large. When they share actual assets, they usually know the risk that the asset might get "re"sold, but again, that's a pretty dumb move.
I don't think this was his point.
It's not about taking someones assets and selling it.
Just profiting (as gaining experience) from others, while keeping personal info to themselved.
Basically being all selfish, taking whatever they can but not giving anything.
I'm going to help you fight your enemy, which I know, isn't me or the artist next to us.
It's an easy trap to fall into, especially for younger artists. When you are only connected to a handful of people its easier to tear others down or try to hold them back. But that's not how someone actually gets better, that just makes someone appear better for a short period of time. It's short lived because they can't hold everyone back and they really don't know how to actually get better.
To actually improve, they have to figure out what is really holding them back and work on that. If it is a fellow artists, its easy to drop them and
Instead they spend too much time and energy on trying to keep others from advancing. They are standing in the fog, trying to hold onto shadows. Meanwhile the people who know exactly who their enemy is, they are winning the real fight. They get better, they land the jobs and they stick around the industry.
There are points in everyone's career/life that they will have to take and they won't be able to give back, but that is rare. More often, even in the same situation, they will be in a position to help someone else. I'm not Bill Gates, I don't have my own foundation but I can help those around me with what I do have.
People will judge you by the attitude you have when you need to take and by the choices you make when you are in a position to give back.
This whole thread reminds me of this song...
[ame]
As for techniques for making welds, that's so minor; holistic skill is valuable, not little tricks and techniques, because there's a lot of ways to skin a cat and experience is what allows you to choose the right one in the moment.
hey, I'm just giving some random examples, someone was wondering on why no wires/no texture sheets/no tri count etc for WoT. My point was that the secrecy on WoT breakdowns is justified since they have the best looking tanks out there, and two, they were in such troubles with clones of their game, were some tanks were copied even with flaws and everything! That's it, I'm not arguing about what is valuable to an artist or not, this was much simpler.
Making welds, that was another example of tips and tricks to help you, a random example. I never said what's important or not. A random artist working on a "MMO tank game" stumbles on a breakdown on how to get some of the best looking welds - also assured to bake well and also sees how to map them, how bake them, etc - suddenly their job is easier, maybe just by a little, maybe by a lot. Are you saying it's okay to share this with everyone, in the context of you working on the leading game in the genre? Where players join just for the graphics and drool at your welds?
Who are these people and what secret knowledge do you suspect them of possessing?
most games artists are very altruistic, but it's not always the case with the few individuals who hide their work/techniqes from you. they don't seem to suffer and in fact end up doing very well for themselves.
I personally would always share my techniques with fellow polycounters, but I am not always convinced that my techniques are that easy to digest as my work is a bit random and haphazard.
Fearing that you're giving away all your secrets is delusional nonsense, the reason any game artist is good isn't because he knows more tricks than another guy, it's the sum of his experience, and often quite critically, the taste level of the artist. You can learn how to make a weld or whatever, but it's much harder to learn taste and how to apply techniques in an appealing manner. It's not the tools you use or the specific techniques but how you apply that to your work.
Over the past 10 years I have been on and off polycount, I have see some very well regarded artists withhold stuff. They promise to share their workflow tricks and working scripts which are simple and trivial even multiple times over the course of several years. Stuff that would help everybody out immensely.
Besides that though it is still difficult to know what workflows and pipelines people in the industry are using these days. That seems to be a well kept secret. If it wasn't for people like Earthquake, perna and AlecMoody & the others who has made those informative threads, we'd be in the stone age of art. Honestly where else could we get information like that without working in-house? I do wish the other veterans and industry professionals would help more with essential info like that.
I think we can end this debate with the above. :poly121:
well they may not intended to withhold stuff. they could have just gotten busy as soon as they were done posting the project they were working on.
People get busy, also it is not always easy to teach a lot of things that come from experience. When most people want to post something they want to actually do a good job at it as well, and that takes time and effort which a lot of people dont have.
A lot of exceptionally talented artists lack the confidence, or simply undervalue their skillset to the point where they don't feel like they have anything unique to share, which prevents them from posting break downs or tutorials. This is a really unfortunate problem, but I think it's actually very common.
In reality, there are very few artists in this industry who are actively apposed to sharing information. I've met none I can even think of by name in my career. I'm not saying they don't exist, but that they are in the minority.
[ame]
https://youtu.be/htbZPFLbuy0?t=2m42s
I started putting together a series of tutorials for environment artists on interior construction details based on my experience as a commmercial electrician.
Things like fire alarm, sprinklers, switches, wall plates, junction boxes, light fixtures, ceiling tiles, joists, exit signs, etc. It's almost always done wrong because artists don't have a concise guide or experience telling them how and where to place all these things.
It just takes way too long to make tutorials at the high standards people demand. Making a complete 3D environment at AAA quality with accurate measurements and blueprints just isn't possible with my time schedule. I have a full time job in the industry plus a family. What little free time I have is spent earning extra money by developing asset packages, new skills or my own games.
I also looked into writing a book. I would probably have to spend a year part-time writing it and would make around $4,000 US.
Same goes for other areas of technical art, like particles, scripting, finite state machines in blueprint and playmaker, etc. I can't justify the massive time it would take.
I know you're busy and all, but.... That would really be incredibly useful.
Have you found any electrician's guides online that spell it out fairly simply, with minimal technical terms?
Unfortunately, no. There are simplified codes, but even those are filled with lots of non-relevant info.
It's not just electrical, it's about things like what's behind walls and ceiling tiles. If you shoot a ceiling tile out, what do you see?
I would want to do full 3d walk-throughs with before and after in an engine like Unreal or Unity. I think people really need to see the difference all of the construction details would make.
But yeah, it takes a shitload of work to make high-quality training material that is clear and accurate. I started with blueprints from actual construction sites and it took too much time from my personal life.
It was actually a simple maxscript that took me several days to learn myself as a beginner (which has been obsolete the past few years with certain software) . A person who knows they are that busy shouldn't keep promising they'll give it to people 10+ times over the course of 5 years. Making that script on my own obviously resonated a lot of annoyance when it would have taken several minutes by a pro
Counting on other people to do stuff for you, for free, and then complaining when they don't is more of a reflection on you than it is them. It's great when it happens, but it should never be expected.
The question bears asking, after you wrote the maxscript, did you share it?
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Just replace "hackers" with "pro 3d artists" or really any dedicated digital community.
Also, I wish people shared on the wiki more often. It's wide open, and free, and very helpful for others.
Kindness can be as simple as blurting what keywords to google, it doesn't take much even if you don't have much time.