Maybe this merger is a good thing. It would probably help the ID team produce a lot faster. Hopefully we won't have to wait for Rage for another 2 years.
Maybe this merger is a good thing. It would probably help the ID team produce a lot faster. Hopefully we won't have to wait for Rage for another 2 years.
when you say "help produce a lot faster" do you mean rush the game? :P
What? Those Max plug-ins ( Gamebryo's own Max export Plug-in at least ) should also make Lights with Gamebryo's gorgeous NiPCFShadowTechnique shadow method quite easy as well.
As far as I know, G.E.C.K modtools for fallout 3 doesn't represent Gamebryo's graphic potential?
when you say "help produce a lot faster" do you mean rush the game? :P
In an interview with Kotaku, id co-founder John Carmack, id CEO Todd Hollenshead and ZeniMax CEO Robert Altman said the purchase will change none of the principles or principals of id and Bethesda but will allow id to grow like it never has before.
psst... Like get your portfolio in order. So you too can be among the millions to get rejected.
Its interesting, but when i first heard that SD had Joined up with Bethesda, i was thinking maybe they were trying to branch off from id a bit, do their own thing. But now that id has joined up with Bethesda as well, i'm thinking maybe that had nothing to do with it. =D
I think this is great news, congrats to the Id and Bethesda folks I say. I mean, the way I was looking at the aggressive hiring period Id has been going through, alongside the amount of time since last shipping a game... well it was clear there would be lot more money going out the door than in for a while yet and thats never good.
I don't automatically assume 'merger means death of culture' as I've lived through a merger here that improved things and it looks like there could be some fantastic combo powers that come out of this move for all parties.
Of course I'm just speculating, but I'd say this makes me more optimistic about the future for the folks at Id and Bethesda, I can see as an outsider how helpful the combination of each sides technology and development experiences can only help both sides.
carmack is a programming god. i'm sure he'll be hassling the bethesda guys to iron out bugs, and make everything more stable.
oblivions engine ran really poorly for me on PC, CTD's, bugs, unfinishable quests, skill crashes.. gleh.
while doom 3 ran smoother than baby butter on a clunky old nightmare of a computer that was barely up to medium specs.
In 1999, Carmack appeared as number 10 in Time's list of the 50 most influential people in technology.[7]
On March 22, 2001, Carmack became the fourth person to be inducted into the Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences' Hall of Fame, an honor bestowed upon those who have made revolutionary and innovative achievements in the video and computer game industry.
In 2003, Carmack was one of the subjects of the book Masters of Doom, a chronicle of id Software and its founders.
In 2005, the film Doom featured a character named Dr. Carmack, in recognition of Carmack who co-created the original game.
In March 2006, Carmack was added to the Walk of Game, an event that recognizes the developers and games with the most impact on the industry.[8]
In January 2007 in Las Vegas, Nevada, John Carmack and id Software were awarded with two Emmy Awards. The Science, Engineering & Technology for Broadcast Television, which includes broadcast, cable and satellite distribution, and secondly, Science, Engineering and Technology for Broadband and Personal Television, encompassing interactive television, gaming technology, and for the first time, the Internet, cell phones, private networks, and personal media players. id Software is the very first independent game developer to be awarded an Emmy since the Academy began honoring technology innovation in 1948.[9]
In September 2007, Carmack appeared on Discovery Channel Canada Daily Planet, featuring his rocket designs along with the Armadillo Aerospace team.
To say Carmack is overrated is a huge slap in the face to the entire community. He pioneered many advancements in game engine development and inspired others to push the technology. You may want to think first before you let vomit spew from your mouth..
Yes indeed, I don't think anyone sane can accuse Mr. Carmack of being overrated, he and his teams have pretty much led the field for decades in terms of PC gaming and technology.
I think you could say he hasnt been as revolutionary lately as he has in the past, but i also think that would be akin to saying Buzz Armstrong is overated because he hasn't landed on any *other* moons lately. Fact is he is the frontmost pioneer in his field.
Yes he was very influencial back in the day when the industry was nothing, but so was Sid Meier or even before that mister Alexey-"I invented Tretris" and they are not regarded as programming gods.
Now, Id invented wolfenstein, then moved on to a completely different kind of game and called it Doom, later they completely redesigned their way of making games and invented Quake... humm.. yeah thats.. godlike.
Technology? they haven't been pushing the envelope for a long time now, except for the new and very promising Megatexture technology, Which brings us back to mister Alexey. He design the perfect videogame a game that has been copied countless times through the years, still almost no one knows who he is. And if you think of it, he's just like armstrong.
What I mean is I think that it is overrated if you say that he is a programming god, because there are so many other programmers that do so many huge advancements way more important and way more genious than he ever did, be it in games or any other fields, even graphics (just look at siggraph papers from programming "gods" all over the world) that its even disrespectfull to say such a thing.
Now, If you say that he is one of the most influencial persons in the games industry, I couldn't agree more. Yes he is really good, and don't get me wrong it feels like I have some personal grudge against him when I don't, I trully admire the guy much more than many other people in his area but I just don't think he is a programming god.
Yes he was very influencial back in the day when the industry was nothing, but so was Sid Meier or even before that mister Alexey-"I invented Tretris" and they are not regarded as programming gods.
Now, Id invented wolfenstein, then moved on to a completely different kind of game and called it Doom, later they completely redesigned their way of making games and invented Quake... humm.. yeah thats.. godlike.
Technology? they haven't been pushing the envelope for a long time now, except for the new and very promising Megatexture technology, Which brings us back to mister Alexey. He design the perfect videogame a game that has been copied countless times through the years, still almost no one knows who he is. And if you think of it, he's just like armstrong.
What I mean is I think that it is overrated if you say that he is a programming god, because there are so many other programmers that do so many huge advancements way more important and way more genious than he ever did, be it in games or any other fields, even graphics (just look at siggraph papers from programming "gods" all over the world) that its even disrespectfull to say such a thing.
Now, If you say that he is one of the most influencial persons in the games industry, I couldn't agree more. Yes he is really good, and don't get me wrong it feels like I have some personal grudge against him when I don't, I trully admire the guy much more than many other people in his area but I just don't think he is a programming god.
Just as a point of interrest, if a "programming god" represents the top minds in the field of programming (I take it noone here means they create life and other divine things and then does programming on the side?) and Carmack is not among those, who then in your eyes would be? Is it more a question of what great minds put their efforts into rather then how good they are?
Quake 4 and Doom 3 were as good as other games in the same release catchments!
wait. wut?
no really, Carmack IS awesome, but there are others like him popping up in other companies. in order to stay awesome, he needs to keep pushing the bar, something ID hasn't really been doing of late.
Quake 4 and Doom 3 were as good as other games in the same release catchments!
wait. wut?
no really, Carmack IS awesome, but there are others like him popping up in other companies. in order to stay awesome, he needs to keep pushing the bar, something ID hasn't really been doing of late.
is that not a fair comment?
no. Carmack is a god. nuff said.
brb, worship at shrine of carmack now.
in order to stay awesome, he needs to keep pushing the bar, something ID hasn't really been doing of late.
is that not a fair comment?
i don't feel that is a fair thing to say. i feel id has been raising the bar and boundaries of technology.
tech 5 looks to have some hot tech. quake wars and rage seem to show how the tools enable env artists to create convincing and sexy environment art. that's a recent advancement, isn't it? before that it was normal maps in doom 3? would quakelive count? ithe company has been pretty diverse lately, and that's pretty cool.
i do think the company has lacked in the actualy game play department for a while, and maybe this recent merger will be a good thing for that. the funnest id game i've played was quake arena.
i don't think they need to keep "pushing the bar", which i'm taking to mean, to continually improve, to stay awesome. consistency in execution can keep shit awesome in my eyes. sometimes reliable is good.
i don't feel that is a fair thing to say. i feel id has been raising the bar and boundaries of technology.
tech 5 looks to have some hot tech. quake wars and rage seem to show how the tools enable env artists to create convincing and sexy environment art. that's a recent advancement, isn't it? before that it was normal maps in doom 3? would quakelive count? ithe company has been pretty diverse lately, and that's pretty cool.
i do think the company has lacked in the actualy game play department for a while, and maybe this recent merger will be a good thing for that. the funnest id game i've played was quake arena.
i don't think they need to keep "pushing the bar", which i'm taking to mean, to continually improve, to stay awesome. consistency in execution can keep shit awesome in my eyes. sometimes reliable is good.
farcry was around before doom3, and used normalmaps, there were probably other games before farcry too, but farcry looked a hell of a loot better than doom 3 did.
i have to agree about quake wars, and yes, rage does look good at the moment, BUT, there always seems to be another developer who can trump ID recently. everything they come up with, someone else makes a more polished version of, whether it's before, at the same time, or shorly after ID choose to release their newest shiny.
the problem with consistency of execution, is that you always used to push the bar, when you stop pushing it, you're no longer being consistent, are you?
for sure, they've done some amazing things. all i'm saying, is that others have done better.
maybe if he stopped building rockets and started building games again?
farcry was around before doom3, and used normalmaps, there were probably other games before farcry too,
Doom3 had a very, very long production schedule. When they demonstrated it for the first time at the release of the Geforce3, it was the only game using normal mapping in the proper way. About 90% of even the industry itself had absolutely no clue about what the hell id was doing.
Far Cry simply had a shorter dev time and got to the market some months earlier.
but farcry looked a hell of a loot better than doom 3 did.
That's subjective. To me, FC was faaaar to kitschy.
2001, spring, Macworld expo - first public presentation of Doom3
2002 Far Cry announced
2004 march - Far Cry released
2004 august - Doom3 released
Doom3 was first, even though it was not Carmack who invented normal mapping, he found it in a Siggraph presentation... But he was the first to realize its possibilities in realtime 3D games and it was his implementation of it that basically set the way to create game art for the following 8 years.
After Rage removes the texture memory bottleneck next year, tech 6 may also redefine everything again by introducing quasi-unlimited geometry (although I'm still highly sceptical of voxels).
I just can't comprehend people dismissing his achievments.
no dismissal coming from my end, i think he's done amazing things. and continues to do so. but there are others doing similar things out there, he's no longer the one man army he used to be.
i thought we already had unlimited geometry, and that what slowed things down now was shader expenses? having lots of textures is great, but as already known, textures that are too detailed are pointless as you'll never see the detail, and it won't bring us any closer to having "real" looking worlds.
if he can get us some realtime SSS, then i'll start licking his boots again :P
i thought we already had unlimited geometry, and that what slowed things down now was shader expenses?
I think geometry is much less of an issue than it used to be, but its by no means unlimited...otherwise we wouldn't use Normal maps and games would be using 5 million poly character models right? :P
I think geometry is much less of an issue than it used to be, but its by no means unlimited...otherwise we wouldn't use Normal maps and games would be using 5 million poly character models right? :P
no dismissal coming from my end, i think he's done amazing things. and continues to do so. but there are others doing similar things out there, he's no longer the one man army he used to be.
That's the thing about blazing trails, people always come along afterward and sometimes, they surprise you by catching up right before you finish your trail. But lets not assume that the speed in which they caught up was because they blazed their own trail, but merely ran along the newly carved one.
It's a collective effort bringing new tech to the industry while there are many hands sharing it all back and forth, one person can't take credit for all the advancements that have been made. but he has done a lot of the brute force theory and grunt work to make it all happen.
maybe if he stopped building rockets and started building games again?
There's a lot to be said for someone who can juggle multiple highly complex tasks at the same time.
I'm kind of the mindset that if you can't do better, you're just blowing hot air when you try to devalue someones hard work like that.
As for FarCry it hardly ran on anything, and what it did run on, it ran poorly. Honestly, normal maps in a large outdoor setting where almost a waste. It could have gotten by with the game play elements alone.They probably could have packed more in if they didn't use normal maps. The normals in Doom3 severed a huge purpose and played out pretty well. Doom3 had far less bugs and was much a more stable release on launch. It kind of smells like someone wanted to ride on someone else coat tails only to jump off and sprint ahead at the last min? Just my impression based on what I remember.
i realise the logic behind that statement is kind of assanine (sp?). and i'm certainly not trying to devalue his work. his PAST work is immeasurably great.
Doom 3 ran on my geforce 3... although low res, and with only 25-30FPS. but it ran.
when carmack touches it, it turns to gold, and not lead painted with a golden colour.
he's like programming midas.
carmack is the worlds most thorough programmer.
he's a code artist.
anyways, yes, far cry had an interesting engine. the large world thing was revolutionary in its own right, with the large jungles and such. and it was very efficient too.
and i like cryengine 2 a lot. those guys are certainly skilled. what was their names again.. ummm...
nah, can't remember.
John Carmack has certainly pushed the industry forward on a number of times. Certainly id hasn't had a great balance between engine development and game dev cycles in recent years however that doesn't reflect on the quality of the team, just that they clearly enjoyed the way they worked, had found it be hugely successful and eventually when it became clear that it really wasn't a viable model anymore started to change that (ramping up for new teams ie Doom4).
It has been a long time since we saw a real id software game released (not external partners) but it doesn't mean I am any less excited about the prospect of Rage or Doom4. I am sure the team will be feeling the pressure to ensure that it meets our expectations and so it doesn't really matter about the games they've made before just that the new ones are rockin'
Neato! I'm going to work for Zenimax Online(their MMO division) starting August 3rd. I was excited to be associated with Beth, and now Id, good stuff I think, we'll see what happens.
Replies
when you say "help produce a lot faster" do you mean rush the game? :P
We are going to have to download 5 patches within the first week of 'release' now, aren't we.
I was being sarcastic.
I don't automatically assume 'merger means death of culture' as I've lived through a merger here that improved things and it looks like there could be some fantastic combo powers that come out of this move for all parties.
Of course I'm just speculating, but I'd say this makes me more optimistic about the future for the folks at Id and Bethesda, I can see as an outsider how helpful the combination of each sides technology and development experiences can only help both sides.
Ahh... I C now. I am dense.:)
oblivions engine ran really poorly for me on PC, CTD's, bugs, unfinishable quests, skill crashes.. gleh.
while doom 3 ran smoother than baby butter on a clunky old nightmare of a computer that was barely up to medium specs.
not saying he's bad of course that would be stupid, but he's just not a programing god. thats what I meant :P
"Oh yea? Have you: "no..."
"Well you're still young maybe by the time you're 39"
didn't he also basically invent 3d games for PC, along with the first person shooter,
with wolfenstein and quake 1?
Also im quite sure there are shadows in Oblivion...did i miss something?
http://crackle.com/c/Jace_Hall#id=2366278&ml=o%3D12%26fpl%3D297045%26fx%3D
Spark
Now, Id invented wolfenstein, then moved on to a completely different kind of game and called it Doom, later they completely redesigned their way of making games and invented Quake... humm.. yeah thats.. godlike.
Technology? they haven't been pushing the envelope for a long time now, except for the new and very promising Megatexture technology, Which brings us back to mister Alexey. He design the perfect videogame a game that has been copied countless times through the years, still almost no one knows who he is. And if you think of it, he's just like armstrong.
What I mean is I think that it is overrated if you say that he is a programming god, because there are so many other programmers that do so many huge advancements way more important and way more genious than he ever did, be it in games or any other fields, even graphics (just look at siggraph papers from programming "gods" all over the world) that its even disrespectfull to say such a thing.
Now, If you say that he is one of the most influencial persons in the games industry, I couldn't agree more. Yes he is really good, and don't get me wrong it feels like I have some personal grudge against him when I don't, I trully admire the guy much more than many other people in his area but I just don't think he is a programming god.
here:
to fix your brain.
Just as a point of interrest, if a "programming god" represents the top minds in the field of programming (I take it noone here means they create life and other divine things and then does programming on the side?) and Carmack is not among those, who then in your eyes would be? Is it more a question of what great minds put their efforts into rather then how good they are?
you're sweet! :-*
wait. wut?
no really, Carmack IS awesome, but there are others like him popping up in other companies. in order to stay awesome, he needs to keep pushing the bar, something ID hasn't really been doing of late.
is that not a fair comment?
no. Carmack is a god. nuff said.
brb, worship at shrine of carmack now.
Note to self: never fuck with John Carmack.
That would make him a god in my eyes.
i don't feel that is a fair thing to say. i feel id has been raising the bar and boundaries of technology.
tech 5 looks to have some hot tech. quake wars and rage seem to show how the tools enable env artists to create convincing and sexy environment art. that's a recent advancement, isn't it? before that it was normal maps in doom 3? would quakelive count? ithe company has been pretty diverse lately, and that's pretty cool.
i do think the company has lacked in the actualy game play department for a while, and maybe this recent merger will be a good thing for that. the funnest id game i've played was quake arena.
i don't think they need to keep "pushing the bar", which i'm taking to mean, to continually improve, to stay awesome. consistency in execution can keep shit awesome in my eyes. sometimes reliable is good.
farcry was around before doom3, and used normalmaps, there were probably other games before farcry too, but farcry looked a hell of a loot better than doom 3 did.
i have to agree about quake wars, and yes, rage does look good at the moment, BUT, there always seems to be another developer who can trump ID recently. everything they come up with, someone else makes a more polished version of, whether it's before, at the same time, or shorly after ID choose to release their newest shiny.
the problem with consistency of execution, is that you always used to push the bar, when you stop pushing it, you're no longer being consistent, are you?
for sure, they've done some amazing things. all i'm saying, is that others have done better.
maybe if he stopped building rockets and started building games again?
Doom3 had a very, very long production schedule. When they demonstrated it for the first time at the release of the Geforce3, it was the only game using normal mapping in the proper way. About 90% of even the industry itself had absolutely no clue about what the hell id was doing.
Far Cry simply had a shorter dev time and got to the market some months earlier.
That's subjective. To me, FC was faaaar to kitschy.
2001, spring, Macworld expo - first public presentation of Doom3
2002 Far Cry announced
2004 march - Far Cry released
2004 august - Doom3 released
Doom3 was first, even though it was not Carmack who invented normal mapping, he found it in a Siggraph presentation... But he was the first to realize its possibilities in realtime 3D games and it was his implementation of it that basically set the way to create game art for the following 8 years.
After Rage removes the texture memory bottleneck next year, tech 6 may also redefine everything again by introducing quasi-unlimited geometry (although I'm still highly sceptical of voxels).
I just can't comprehend people dismissing his achievments.
i thought we already had unlimited geometry, and that what slowed things down now was shader expenses? having lots of textures is great, but as already known, textures that are too detailed are pointless as you'll never see the detail, and it won't bring us any closer to having "real" looking worlds.
if he can get us some realtime SSS, then i'll start licking his boots again :P
I think geometry is much less of an issue than it used to be, but its by no means unlimited...otherwise we wouldn't use Normal maps and games would be using 5 million poly character models right? :P
haha yeah that's true.
It's a collective effort bringing new tech to the industry while there are many hands sharing it all back and forth, one person can't take credit for all the advancements that have been made. but he has done a lot of the brute force theory and grunt work to make it all happen.
There's a lot to be said for someone who can juggle multiple highly complex tasks at the same time.
I'm kind of the mindset that if you can't do better, you're just blowing hot air when you try to devalue someones hard work like that.
As for FarCry it hardly ran on anything, and what it did run on, it ran poorly. Honestly, normal maps in a large outdoor setting where almost a waste. It could have gotten by with the game play elements alone.They probably could have packed more in if they didn't use normal maps. The normals in Doom3 severed a huge purpose and played out pretty well. Doom3 had far less bugs and was much a more stable release on launch. It kind of smells like someone wanted to ride on someone else coat tails only to jump off and sprint ahead at the last min? Just my impression based on what I remember.
i realise the logic behind that statement is kind of assanine (sp?). and i'm certainly not trying to devalue his work. his PAST work is immeasurably great.
...as long as the res was no higher the 600x480, that is:P
when carmack touches it, it turns to gold, and not lead painted with a golden colour.
he's like programming midas.
carmack is the worlds most thorough programmer.
he's a code artist.
anyways, yes, far cry had an interesting engine. the large world thing was revolutionary in its own right, with the large jungles and such. and it was very efficient too.
and i like cryengine 2 a lot. those guys are certainly skilled. what was their names again.. ummm...
nah, can't remember.
It has been a long time since we saw a real id software game released (not external partners) but it doesn't mean I am any less excited about the prospect of Rage or Doom4. I am sure the team will be feeling the pressure to ensure that it meets our expectations and so it doesn't really matter about the games they've made before just that the new ones are rockin'
sounded like a sweet workflow