Their games weren't held down, id self-funded development. What this means is that they can have all of their big name IP get made by Zenimax studios so that it's not 5-10 years between releases for Quake, Doom, Wolfenstein, and now Rage. Each one of those names has a lot of potential, but id never had the scale to capitalize on their IP, and they never wanted to straight sell the IP for cash.
It seems like a good move for them, it's just contrary to their "INDIE 4 LIEF" image. So, pretty shocking.
It will be interesting to see how they put together teams to work on new games. . . I am hoping for a MMOFPS sequel to Quake 1.
It would also be cool to see more studios getting direct access to Carmack Tech.
Pretty disappointing to me personally-- who does that leave now? Epic, Valve, Bungie and Crytek? (although Crytek is kind of new to the scene)
It seems like since the mid 90's game development has gotten more and more concentrated, with small guys selling out or closing up. At the same time games have gotten more predictable and less innovative.
Of American/European PC game devs from the early 90's that are still around, I can only think of Lucas Arts... I suppose most people are too young to care about that sort of thing.
Pretty disappointing to me personally-- who does that leave now? Epic, Valve, Bungie and Crytek? (although Crytek is kind of new to the scene)
It seems like since the mid 90's game development has gotten more and more concentrated, with small guys selling out or closing up. At the same time games have gotten more predictable and less innovative.
Yeah you are right, Im glad we still have those companies around to make original games like Halflife #3, Unreal Tournament #7, Halo #4 and Crysis #4!
Of American/European PC game devs from the early 90's that are still around, I can only think of Lucas Arts... I suppose most people are too young to care about that sort of thing.
-10 points for acting like an old salt 10-20 years early!
Yeah you are right, Im glad we still have those companies around to make original games like Halflife #3, Unreal Tournament #7, Halo #4 and Crysis #4!
This is kind of a straw man. Valve has done some awesome original IP lately, and added a lot to their old IP (TF2 for example). Epic did Gears of War, which you might have heard of, and also just announced a new IP for their XBLA game. Bungie just bought themsleves back from MS, probably because they were tired of doing Halo games, and Crysis 2 was just announced.
-10 points for acting like an old salt 10-20 years early!
haha, yeah, I guess so. Talking to my friends, it is kind of depressing. To them Epic is the company that made Gears of War, and they can't even recall the last major game Id made ("ET:QW?", "No that was Splash Damage")
Sounds like a good move for both sides, it might kick start a hiring wave too?
The part that worries me is that they might be coming at this from a point of weakness, like ID tech isn't selling as well as other engines?
Hopefully they're looking to diversify and cut cords with publishers who suckle too much money. If that's the case (and it sounds like it is) they could see a lot more return on their handiwork which could play right back into the development of more quality games.
On a side note I wonder how the whole AAA+ game engine racket is doing. It seems like the push is smaller less expensive engines? I wonder if they need to think about watering down their tech (and prices) to scoop up more of the lower markets?
As for small studios being gobbled up by larger, that's kind of the point with most of the small ones. Create studio, sell. Create studio, sell... Wash rinse repeat until your 20 car garage if full and its time to settle down and retire at 42.
As for small studios being gobbled up by larger, that's kind of the point with most of the small ones. Create studio, sell. Create studio, sell... Wash rinse repeat until your 20 car garage if full and its time to settle down and retire at 42.
Precisely. The goal of any company is to make money. Period. Sure, as a game studio, the vets want to make good games. I mean, that's the only way you can be profitable. But honestly, you're deceiving yourself if you think all game studios only care about games.
I look forward to see what happens with this merger.
I think John Carmack has too strong a personality to allow himself to be walked on by anyone who gains financial control of id, and if it comes down to something drastic he may well just "quit the games industry" to pioneer graphics and rocketry technology on his lonesome. But I don't see that as the case here yet, and besides, id had been so silent for so long, I am not actually surprised to hear they are, too, involved in the 'selling-out' business for security and (I hope) forward-moving collaboration.
As things become bigger, gaming more popular, and development more expensive - therefore reliant on huge sales? - the depth of games seems to deteriorate, and it's really just depressing. I do wish games were more like sophisticated books and movies rather than just violence and reward pornography... what longtime PC gamer doesn't? But in order for them to be more like books and movies (NOT in terms of production or play, in terms of themes, maturity and depth), they need a huge mainstream audience - who, at first, needs a simplified experience..? Maybe. I guess the thing that bothers me most is whining about the lack of depth while not actually creating any of these types of games myself.
It'll probably just take a while, until control input is perfected as both highly intricate and yet completely intuitive, and things won't need to be dumbed down because games will be a medium that everyone enjoys. Maybe.
Though I guess it's a bit off-topic to rave on about my distaste for the consolization of games. It happened with Oblivion, UT3, is happening I believe with Rage, though not in a bad way - things do seem to be getting better, and I'm just going to stay hopeful.
Fallout that isn't a dumb ass shooter that sucks please! Oh wait that was fallout 1 and 2. *rim shot*
Yeah but that wont happen because Bethesda has the IP now So we will have to settle with fallout3ish game NOT done in gamebryo. Would be a pretty good game imo.
I think we plan on continuing being Id, even with this merger. We now only have a partner to do the RPG side of things, while we take on the FPS part. So for me nothing has changed:)
I think we plan on continuing being Id, even with this merger. We now only have a partner to do the RPG side of things, while we take on the FPS part. So for me nothing has changed:)
It seems like since the mid 90's game development has gotten more and more concentrated, with small guys selling out or closing up. At the same time games have gotten more predictable and less innovative.
Games also cost multiple tens of millions of dollars to develop these days. You just can't compare today's games to the mid 90's. Small studios "sell out" because they want more money to expand. Where does that money come from, if you're not turning the profits you need to expand? Publishers see potential so they invest money, in turn owning the studios assets.
As for "more predictable and less innovative." it goes back to the same thing, it costs a lot to make AAA highly competitive games. Not all companies have the resources for, or an interest in, taking the risk of new and innovative things. They capitalize on their particular stakes in the market until they are run dry (see Guitar Hero, etc). Publishers are businesses, and they do what they feel they need to in order to make money.
Fortunately we have small and smaller-minded developers and publishers to give us games like Braid, Castle Crashers, hell since we're on the subject, Fallout, Oblivion, etc. They are huge games and highly successful, but by all standards they are not what is popular among console games.
id has shown for two decades now that they know what they're doing and no publisher is going to step in and say "by the way, we know you have made millions and millions of dollars in the past 20 years, but here's how you REALLY do it right"
Especially a company that brought the industry so many game-of-the-year blockbusters like Bethesda has. All this means is more resources to make better games in less time, and to publish and market those games.
Isn't Zenimax something men take for erectile dysfunction?
Yes it is, since most of their games tend to induce boners in their players.
I always looked at id as the "studio to be" for their independence and quality. However, I know people at Zenimax/Bethsoft, and the quality they are capable of, So I can see some goods things coming from this.
At the end of the day this had to benefit someone, otherwise it would not have happened. Lets look at this as an interesting thing, and reserve judgment until we see the direction it's headed.
I'm curious what their mobile division is working on. Their career section had a listing for a mobile level designer but who knows how long that has been up there.
Just guessing but in this case I think EA Partners is probably code for, "We're a big company that's bleeding rivers of money. So you're deal just got a whole lot worse, but thanks for self funding all your projects. With any luck your next title will pull us out of the hole!"
hahahahahaha. Yeah, they made an engine that doesn't support shadows. In this day and age. :poly142:
BTW, Gamebryo is just a rebranding of the old NetImmerse engine, I believe. Pretty sure it was made by a UK middleware developer quite a while ago (before Morrowind), and while it may have been tweaked by Bethesda since then, they didn't "make" the engine.
hahahahahaha. Yeah, they made an engine that doesn't support shadows. In this day and age. :poly142:
I personally find it great to work with (as an animator especially). Those Max plugins for it make the job quite easy.
What? Those Max plug-ins ( Gamebryo's own Max export Plug-in at least ) should also make Lights with Gamebryo's gorgeous NiPCFShadowTechnique shadow method quite easy as well.
As far as I know, G.E.C.K modtools for fallout 3 doesn't represent Gamebryo's graphic potential?
EA Partners is just EA's 3rd party publishing arm. EA is publishing Rage. That deal will stand even now unless Zenimax buys it out.
ok, clearly my knowledge about that was not the best!
but still, I have the impression that a publisher buying one of the biggest(?) and surely most important independent game studios in the world is not a good sign.
Its been 10 years since quake 3... the last game of theirs I really loved. I hope this means they'll have time to get back to making fun games. Not that Rage won't be awesome and not just another engine demo(?).
PS. I spent like 15 years playing an id game every day. I miss em.
Why do you say that? Zenimax own Bethesda Softworks, who have been turning out great games for years. Why would their ownership be bad for id?
eventual corporate control over a once independent and hugely successfull games company. yes it will surely be more safe for id in the near future, but to what extent? we've all seen publishers closing successful studios that they owned because they stopped beying as profitable as expected. I doubt that id has difficulty in getting funding for any project they throw out, so is that the problem? is marketing the problem?... or maybe they do have those problems and thats why they were bought. I dunno man just trying to figure out why :P
I have no idea how good the engine actually is but i have yet to see a game released on it that looks technically good like alot of other new games these days. In Fallout3 there is alot of really cool artwork but they all look like they would look better in the maya viewport :[ It is also a VERY old engine that has had stuff added on for a very long time is it not? Usually comes with some downsides.
eventual corporate control over a once independent and hugely successfull games company. yes it will surely be more safe for id in the near future, but to what extent? we've all seen publishers closing successful studios that they owned because they stopped beying as profitable as expected. I doubt that id has difficulty in getting funding for any project they throw out, so is that the problem? is marketing the problem?... or maybe they do have those problems and thats why they were bought. I dunno man just trying to figure out why :P
Yes, they where just bought by "the man" who seeks to hold them down under his ever oppressive thumb. heh =P
I think Zeni, is offering to eat less of the profits than EA. Zeni wins because they see mounts of cash and have much lower overhead than EA. id wins because they get slightly bigger mountains of cash and a cash infusion from selling. EA continues to bleed rivers of cash...
I remember reading interviews with Carmack and Hollenshead and they've talked about selling before. So I don't think they where pushed into a corner (but that could still be the case).
Replies
but if this gives id more creative freedom then i'm all for it. I don't want to see games held down by shitty publisher decisions
It seems like a good move for them, it's just contrary to their "INDIE 4 LIEF" image. So, pretty shocking.
It will be interesting to see how they put together teams to work on new games. . . I am hoping for a MMOFPS sequel to Quake 1.
It would also be cool to see more studios getting direct access to Carmack Tech.
It seems like since the mid 90's game development has gotten more and more concentrated, with small guys selling out or closing up. At the same time games have gotten more predictable and less innovative.
Of American/European PC game devs from the early 90's that are still around, I can only think of Lucas Arts... I suppose most people are too young to care about that sort of thing.
Fallout that isn't a dumb ass shooter that sucks please! Oh wait that was fallout 1 and 2. *rim shot*
-10 points for acting like an old salt 10-20 years early!
This is kind of a straw man. Valve has done some awesome original IP lately, and added a lot to their old IP (TF2 for example). Epic did Gears of War, which you might have heard of, and also just announced a new IP for their XBLA game. Bungie just bought themsleves back from MS, probably because they were tired of doing Halo games, and Crysis 2 was just announced.
[edit] haha, yeah, I guess so. Talking to my friends, it is kind of depressing. To them Epic is the company that made Gears of War, and they can't even recall the last major game Id made ("ET:QW?", "No that was Splash Damage")
The part that worries me is that they might be coming at this from a point of weakness, like ID tech isn't selling as well as other engines?
Hopefully they're looking to diversify and cut cords with publishers who suckle too much money. If that's the case (and it sounds like it is) they could see a lot more return on their handiwork which could play right back into the development of more quality games.
On a side note I wonder how the whole AAA+ game engine racket is doing. It seems like the push is smaller less expensive engines? I wonder if they need to think about watering down their tech (and prices) to scoop up more of the lower markets?
As for small studios being gobbled up by larger, that's kind of the point with most of the small ones. Create studio, sell. Create studio, sell... Wash rinse repeat until your 20 car garage if full and its time to settle down and retire at 42.
Precisely. The goal of any company is to make money. Period. Sure, as a game studio, the vets want to make good games. I mean, that's the only way you can be profitable. But honestly, you're deceiving yourself if you think all game studios only care about games.
I look forward to see what happens with this merger.
As things become bigger, gaming more popular, and development more expensive - therefore reliant on huge sales? - the depth of games seems to deteriorate, and it's really just depressing. I do wish games were more like sophisticated books and movies rather than just violence and reward pornography... what longtime PC gamer doesn't? But in order for them to be more like books and movies (NOT in terms of production or play, in terms of themes, maturity and depth), they need a huge mainstream audience - who, at first, needs a simplified experience..? Maybe. I guess the thing that bothers me most is whining about the lack of depth while not actually creating any of these types of games myself.
It'll probably just take a while, until control input is perfected as both highly intricate and yet completely intuitive, and things won't need to be dumbed down because games will be a medium that everyone enjoys. Maybe.
Though I guess it's a bit off-topic to rave on about my distaste for the consolization of games. It happened with Oblivion, UT3, is happening I believe with Rage, though not in a bad way - things do seem to be getting better, and I'm just going to stay hopeful.
Yeah but that wont happen because Bethesda has the IP now
Spark
Good news indeed. I figured that was the case.
Games also cost multiple tens of millions of dollars to develop these days. You just can't compare today's games to the mid 90's. Small studios "sell out" because they want more money to expand. Where does that money come from, if you're not turning the profits you need to expand? Publishers see potential so they invest money, in turn owning the studios assets.
As for "more predictable and less innovative." it goes back to the same thing, it costs a lot to make AAA highly competitive games. Not all companies have the resources for, or an interest in, taking the risk of new and innovative things. They capitalize on their particular stakes in the market until they are run dry (see Guitar Hero, etc). Publishers are businesses, and they do what they feel they need to in order to make money.
Fortunately we have small and smaller-minded developers and publishers to give us games like Braid, Castle Crashers, hell since we're on the subject, Fallout, Oblivion, etc. They are huge games and highly successful, but by all standards they are not what is popular among console games.
id has shown for two decades now that they know what they're doing and no publisher is going to step in and say "by the way, we know you have made millions and millions of dollars in the past 20 years, but here's how you REALLY do it right"
Especially a company that brought the industry so many game-of-the-year blockbusters like Bethesda has. All this means is more resources to make better games in less time, and to publish and market those games.
They kept this one well under their hat...
I predict awesome things.
Yes it is, since most of their games tend to induce boners in their players.
I always looked at id as the "studio to be" for their independence and quality. However, I know people at Zenimax/Bethsoft, and the quality they are capable of, So I can see some goods things coming from this.
At the end of the day this had to benefit someone, otherwise it would not have happened. Lets look at this as an interesting thing, and reserve judgment until we see the direction it's headed.
whats wrong with gamebryo?
yep, no one seems to leverage gamebryo's awesome pcf/vsm shadows.
hahahahahaha. Yeah, they made an engine that doesn't support shadows. In this day and age. :poly142:
I personally find it great to work with (as an animator especially). Those Max plugins for it make the job quite easy.
EA Partners is just EA's 3rd party publishing arm. EA is publishing Rage. That deal will stand even now unless Zenimax buys it out.
BTW, Gamebryo is just a rebranding of the old NetImmerse engine, I believe. Pretty sure it was made by a UK middleware developer quite a while ago (before Morrowind), and while it may have been tweaked by Bethesda since then, they didn't "make" the engine.
What? Those Max plug-ins ( Gamebryo's own Max export Plug-in at least ) should also make Lights with Gamebryo's gorgeous NiPCFShadowTechnique shadow method quite easy as well.
As far as I know, G.E.C.K modtools for fallout 3 doesn't represent Gamebryo's graphic potential?
ok, clearly my knowledge about that was not the best!
but still, I have the impression that a publisher buying one of the biggest(?) and surely most important independent game studios in the world is not a good sign.
PS. I spent like 15 years playing an id game every day. I miss em.
eventual corporate control over a once independent and hugely successfull games company. yes it will surely be more safe for id in the near future, but to what extent? we've all seen publishers closing successful studios that they owned because they stopped beying as profitable as expected. I doubt that id has difficulty in getting funding for any project they throw out, so is that the problem? is marketing the problem?... or maybe they do have those problems and thats why they were bought. I dunno man just trying to figure out why :P
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I have no idea how good the engine actually is but i have yet to see a game released on it that looks technically good like alot of other new games these days. In Fallout3 there is alot of really cool artwork but they all look like they would look better in the maya viewport :[ It is also a VERY old engine that has had stuff added on for a very long time is it not? Usually comes with some downsides.
I think Zeni, is offering to eat less of the profits than EA. Zeni wins because they see mounts of cash and have much lower overhead than EA. id wins because they get slightly bigger mountains of cash and a cash infusion from selling. EA continues to bleed rivers of cash...
I remember reading interviews with Carmack and Hollenshead and they've talked about selling before. So I don't think they where pushed into a corner (but that could still be the case).