Westwood College Sued For Fraud
polycounter lvl 10
http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewstory&threadid=97429
Don't forget to tighten up the graphics on level 3!
[ame]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MhlgS1RgA4[/ame]
Don't forget to tighten up the graphics on level 3!
[ame]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MhlgS1RgA4[/ame]
Replies
Fuck them.
... it took this long. I seriously thought they where done years ago.
I can relate, having gone to an AI. Glad to see at least one of these types of schools getting what they deserve.
When you go to McDonalds, buy a big mac and there's not a filet mingon between the buns, it's not mcdonalds fault.
15 seconds of research on the net would have saved them.
That video perfectly describes my whole situation, but honestly...it is really tough to get a job anywhere right now. I look at it as a "live and learn" type of experience. When I went to AI, they had a great reputation at THAT time so I had no reason to think it was a diploma factory. I was actually going to attend the Atlanta College of Art but decided with AI in the end as I heard great things about them. And honestly, it depends on the persons drive and willingness to succeed. There's plenty of AI graduates out there with jobs in their field...so in my opinion, just suck it up and keep on growing as an artist and as an individual. Maybe the reason you dont have a job could be because your work isnt up to standards. Or you have the wrong attitude. Whatever the case, all I can do is take responsibility for myself and keep on truckin'.
Aesir: Yes but McDonalds never says such things, the don't outright lie about their products even if they may suggest their quality is beyond what it is. And even if that wasnt the case, tricking people for a few dollars vs 10s of thousands and putting them into terrible debt for decades is a different story.
You also assume that when they started there, 4 years ago or whenever, news of the schools failings were already well known on the net. And keep in mind that even if their were some people that commented on bad experiences at the time, it would have had to have been significant enough to make the potential students realize that it wasnt just a vocal minority.
my institution was partnered with the local government TAFE in which we completed the course, but got the recognised degree/accreditation from the TAFE, which worked fine.
What about the gnomon school? I really wanted to go and was saving up, then I got laid off, so have to put that on hold. I know you don't get Associates or Bachelors, I just want to learn from some pro's. Any one know how that place is?
Very very True. Quite honestly whenever anybody asks me how to get in the industry I send them here and to GA. That's how I did it. Only downside when first starting out is having to dig for info, and wait for crits on sucky noob student artwork. No offense to the Sucky noobs out there, I was one and still am when it comes to certain facets of the industry.
The speed of improvement between someone who only learns off the net and someone who is being actively taught is pretty incomparable (at least from what I've seen of animation mentor students)
agreed sometimes I wish there was a way to filter the newbs who just start versus people a few years in? so other newbies might be able to help each other faster? dunno just a thought
Yes, to many of us who have the means to stay connected it seemed perfectly obvious that the place was a scam. But if you're some poor schmo looking for a better job, and you hear that healthcare pays well and companies are always hiring, and this salesman comes your way who says after a year of school you're guaranteed a job, why wouldn't you do it?
Come on now, we've all made regretable decisions at at one point or other. It was thoughtless of these people though to spend so much money on this school when most community colleges are very cheap, and have little to no requirements.
I think the main point was not that they couldn't get jobs, but that they couldn't transfer their credits to a regular university after completing the program, even though the school said that they could. That's what people assume when they hear "accredited" - that your credits will transfer to other better schools.
If you don't have a highschool diploma or are foreign, or have been out of school for a long time, you won't be able to get into most universities. That's why people go to community college (which has low entry requirements) and if they do well there, they can transfer to a 4-year school. I took this path myself and it worked out great, and it was much cheaper.
but if there were a place made by actual industry vets, and you get a good curriculum and advertise it right you got yourself a good place going. If other places can overcharge (cough AI cough) for very rudimentary knowledge you guys should be fine. but, it's all advertising.
another sweet idea would be a hire-a-vet. hell, take the $ you would normally spend on going to school and just pay a years salary of one of you crazy mofos just to bust them into shape. not like that'd ever happen aha but it has potential.
I'm one of the types that can do good work when I have some structure and deadline, but left to my own devices tend to just fail and watch TV all day. Even so, my school (Cogswell Plug!) while not amazing, was far better than the rip off it seems these other schools are. I did get a full Bachelors, and I did get some decent education (mixed with some mind numbing stupidity). Also, being in school meant that now, many of the people I knew, have game jobs, and thus, I have contacts in the industry I may not have had otherwise (though I guess PC does that part at least).
Josh, I'm with you on a modeling/texturing Animation Mentor type program, that would be great. I certainly know a few animators who have benefited tremendously from the program.
I remember the day I told my dad that a college degree wouldnt do much for me in terms of being a game artist and getting a job, and he argued about it for a long time, then one day Timmy got a lil jobby and all I had to say was "suck on deeeeeeez nuts"
I was so set on getting a game art degree...and I was pretty narrowly sighted back then. I wish to god I wouldnt have gone, but there is no point in me moping about it. I just have to buckled down and pay this thing off! But I would gladly take part in action against schools like art institute if given the chance--They charge obscene amounts of money for less than stellar services.
I completely disagree with aesir. 15 seconds wouldn't have done squat. I never researched my college online before I enrolled, sure I went to the open day and read the prospectus and that; but I didn't go on to websites and ask. Not because I didn't care enough or anything, but just because I was a naive 19 year excited to be going to college in the first place? These guys seem to be taking the initiative, and not letting institutions rip them off and leave them virtually unqualified and crippled by debt. Fair fucks to them I say. :thumbup:
But then there were those of us who realized it was up to ourselves to learn and get better, so we sacked up and worked hard. If you want it done, do it yourself and yadda yadda yadda.
amen!
hahah one day i will do that to my parents! but right now there winning :P
cant you join a class action against the school or no?
I do think the same applies to 3d, games,... if you are just that good then a title doesn't matter and the other way around if you have a very professional title but your portfolio and work just sucks then no good company would want you.
I am a lucky guy that gets sponsored by the state (I pay like 15€ a semester or so) and it's good this way because the university I am on does not have to cheat in any way because they are good and they get paid well by the state.
Snippy aren't you? There are two real relevant course choices in my country, I got into one, didn't get into the other. Happy? This was in 2003, when I wasn't jumping onto google for every damn question I had. I know no one else who asked questions about the course online either. In America maybe it is the best way to research, as there are so many options. But guess what; not every country in the world is like yours! Surprising, right!? Yeehaw etc.
Do you actually even disagree that they should be standing up to these thieves?
research may have led you to rethink what a relevant course choice means?
No, i think the the education system as whole is a sham, and these specialize gaming schools/courses are downright criminal. While you may be limited in options where you are, i still find it silly that you would ever suggest that its a waste of time to research which school you are going to, that was my point.
From what i've heard of euro schools they seem to have a very good model, with a lot of colleges being free or very low cost to the student(correct me if i'm wrong here), it encourages the students to actually do a decent job, because the teachers will not just pass every one of them so they can continue getting thier money.
I would also agree that that would be an incredibly stupid thing to suggest...which leads me to think I never said anything like that.
I also think that specialist 'games' courses are definitely not the course to choose if you want to get into this industry. Better to do a good general art/animation/programming degree, and focus your learning on your own time.
Like going to a really good traditional art school and learn the 3D apps on the side, or in a few classes here and there.
Very rarely are places looking for a "programmer/artist/animator" who barely knows anything about all three subjects. But we're getting off topic, as it always happens any time anyone talks directly to blenderhead.
The american system is a lot expensive compared to europe. These swines were charging nearly as much as the most reputable universities. The media and education quotas don't help
though, they like to make people think that education is all about university when in fact it isn't.
But when I went to the AI open-house, I began asking questions of some of the professors and students there. And I found that the expertise they exhibited was often less than my own. The only things I knew about 3D modeling at the time I had learned from playing with cracked software and from Polycount. It was pretty clear to me that the AI was not keeping up with the industry, had far too narrow of a focus, and was probably not worth the investment.
Being young and niave is not really an excuse. A decent amount of background research into the field I was interestd in, as well as scoping out the AI in question, ended up saving me from a similar fate. If you are really passionate about something, you should familiarize yourself with it ahead of time. Rash decisions lead to consequences.
At the same time, I have no objection to Westwood getting the shaft on this one. I can't stand their bloody commercials, it makes me mildly ill everytime they try to make game design look easy. I hope the students win this lawsuit, if for nothing else than to drain that company's advertising budget.
I am one of the last lucky ones that gets his study almost free (future generations will have to pay more as I did ~ 500+ a semester).
Our uni has however a art test which basicly accepts anyone even though they don't have strictly the qualifications like I did. But even if you don't have the strict qualifications you can pass if you have a above average talent which I had in the test.
All in all it is really fair for anyone that really want's to learn good, hard and honest and has talent.
Yes, people should take note that the standar polycount protocol is to not do this ever, except if it is to be horrible for no reason, as I do not have at least three shipped titles under my belt and am therefore shit and not worth agnowledging. Thank you for your co-operation.
Vig, the '/' is meant to seperate them out. As in, it is better to do a good programming degree if you want to program for games, or a fine art degree if you want to model or whatever for games, or an animation degree if you want to animate for games. Is that clear enough for you? Stop drinking shoe polish please.
This is something that has always upset me about my current field of work. (Web Design) In the art or games industry, specialization is assumed. If a company is looking at you for texture painting, they don't expect you to be a modeling wizard as well. If you can paint them textures its "Here's your Wacom, now get to work."
In Web Design its like every job available expects you to know everything. If you attempt to specialize it is very hard to get a job. Every open position I see lists off every web technology they can find. If you're good at working with Flash, or you are highly proficient in table-less CSS design, you shouldn't also have to know how to program in PHP, ASP, Ajax, and be able to manage databases. It pisses me off how most comapnies assume a Web Designer needs to know absolutely everything about the web.