The industry Is collapsing, what are your thoughts?
polycounter lvl 17
More and more each day we are reading and hearing of the industry letting go of more and more skilled employees but usually after the new year there is usually the biggest point of hiring for the new years worth of games.
But the more I read online (on forums and game tab etc) I hear of more and more good people losing work?
What do you people think will happen this upcoming year?
I mean yea sure there will be senior rolls of course, but what about the just entry people, or those who are eagerly looking for work, what sort of predictions do you think will happen in this upcoming year?
Will the industry bounce back like our economy (crossing fingers and HOPING) or will things continue to go down.
Will small business be overall more successful since there self funding more then the bigger publishers or will the bigger company's (The Ea's and blizzards) overall keep the most security in this industry?
I just was interested what some of you guys thought of this.
Either way I'm still keeping a pencil and sketching and sculpting!!
But the more I read online (on forums and game tab etc) I hear of more and more good people losing work?
What do you people think will happen this upcoming year?
I mean yea sure there will be senior rolls of course, but what about the just entry people, or those who are eagerly looking for work, what sort of predictions do you think will happen in this upcoming year?
Will the industry bounce back like our economy (crossing fingers and HOPING) or will things continue to go down.
Will small business be overall more successful since there self funding more then the bigger publishers or will the bigger company's (The Ea's and blizzards) overall keep the most security in this industry?
I just was interested what some of you guys thought of this.
Either way I'm still keeping a pencil and sketching and sculpting!!
Replies
Yes things are being shuffled around and there is a lot of "OMG MORE LAYOFFS!" so surely its not great for some people, but the market for games is still growing.
Just relax and work on that portfolio and you'll get in.
The credit crunch is hurting everyone, but this is not a time of collapse, its a time of rebuilding. The old ways are no longer valid, so new ways must be forged, and unfortunately that forging often costs jobs from existing companies making a new course.
Also having worked there I can honestly say they blow money on things that don't matter and that money could be better put to game development, hiring new talent and keeping it and trimming the fat so to speak.
I'm still a student, but nearing my graduation. Within the last 6 months I've attended a GDC and started to do a lot of networking and to be perfectly honest, things seem pretty solid from my point of view, concerning entry level.
I've been offered work by three companies (no blizzards or EA's) and I'm still 6 months from my grad date.
I'm absolutely willing to relocate worldwide with almost no gripes or complaints so that will take me a lot further than those who try to stay local to their respective areas.
I feel however that the game industry is still very strong and robust. although there are certain companies that let poeple go or fail, the good artists out there dont simply vanish. I assume that the people that lose work will find it again in other studios, different artistic avenues, or even starting their own new studios with comrades they've met over the years that have met similar fates.
With the entertainment industry thriving as it has never before, I believe that these fallen companies will act like Hydras. Sever one head and 2 more will replace it.
Maybe I'm just optimistic, but as long as game makers still have a passion for doing this stuff, then I believe everyone will land on their feet.
cheers :P
lol
Yea Im working on art all the time now Ive gotten past the point of needing fame in my posts (cough stimpack drunken quote) Or the envievitable being afraid of art because I dont understand it, so this is beyond myself when im asking this question, I enjoy making art and sculpting now weither its right or wrong in the end its if you enjoy it ,eventually it'll be right if you work at it and study hard enough (waiting for johny to drop kick me saying my sculpts are muddy still
Either way I hear the smaller companies not doing to hot lately because they cant get any publishers to really help due to the economy and the overall freeze in this industry.
Guess I was wondering on the big and the small scale of things lately?
Suprore:We must toss shoes at him it will get his attention quicker!
Aesir: ROFL.
- BoBo
I think they'd sail far over his head.
But seriously, I think the industry is pretty solid. This is:
1 part normal seasonal post xmas rush slump made worse by drying up venture capital.
1 part the industry still adjusting to "next gen budgets"
1 part damn we is dumb with this money stuff
Look at the American Auto Industry, been around forever and we all know why its failing, because we all know what defines their success, how they get there, and how they keep it, very clear. Now look at all the finger pointing, conjecture and just plain ill informed statements (often from people on the inside) that float around when some place in our industry, goes under.
Two guess why that is...
(Hint:
I imagine that studios that have key people in charge that aren't there just to suck up stacks of cash, fuck super models on company time and hope to saddle the next guy with a failing company, aren't going under.
Simple economics and somehow a lot of people forgot it.
Don't spend more then you can make.
Don't lend to people who can't pay it back.
Don't barrow from people who don't actually have money.
When in doubt save it out.
Can't speak for all small companies, but we're currently working on 2 projects for two different major publishers, and we're a pretty damn small company. And the company my girlfriend is at is also doing pretty damn solidly. Not sure if that in any way represents other small companies, but yea, we're doing fine.
Really, there's nothing to worry about until 2012 I think.
That's exactly how I've felt on the whole situation as well... obviously the economy's current state has definite influence and it should be a no brainer that the industry is evolving as others have said.
Every artist, even after they get the cool job they always wanted, should strive to improve continuously and create the absolute bleeding razor edge of artwork to the best of their ability. There really isn't any excuse, outside of laziness and perhaps depression, to not carry one's artistry forward in such a way.
I also think what BoBo was saying, Vrav was expanding on was that talent has a way of persisting. When you shake the tree, the loose nuts fall off... kind of thing.
Aesir, isn't it also true older companies that once were successful, but have fallen out the running somewhat, are also experiencing the trim? Rather stressful, but that does seem the natural way of things. Studios being eaten up, or breaking off, or drying out. This isn't solely related to the artists working in any given studio, either, I imagine. So, now I understand my own misconception: it is not necessarily a trimming of individuals, but the trimming of an overgrown industry. Molting.
Was confused.
for new ventures these days after all the recent financial shit hitting fan kind of stuff.
I think that there will be more layoffs and as mentioned the hard core of talented people will
still be getting work.
is it just me or is 'fiscal stimulus' really a bit rude.
But yeah, game sales and us being a 'vice-industry' doesn't matter when companies can't get funding. The credit crunch will affect the game industry.
Nice to know Bobo considers me and others here the 'fat' of the industry. I think I far prefer the more realistic views that Vig and P.I.G hold.
Also, Vrav seems to be fond of humble-pie
Seriously though, nice way to respond to criticism, it's not the standard internet-way at all, heh.
"holy shit holy shit im gonna die holy shit! what the fuck am i gonna do?!)"£!"(£!"
then i calm down a bit and think shit just sit tight, dig in, and wait it out....it always gets better....without downs you cant have ups....
I would like to see a statistic on what percentage of jobs have been 'trimmed'.
You should probably think more carefully before posting topics like this... a lot of toes are going to be stepped on and egos bruised and thrown around.
Looks like Free Radical Design has closed its doors for good also. Not confirmed from anyone at the company, but that's what GI.biz is going by.
First UK studio to close since things have gone bad money wise, right?
My main concern is the sort of new studios that crop up. I fear that more often we will see "micro-studios" composed of small teams that outsource as much work as possible to cheap foreign contractors. That's a good short-term way for publishers to save some money, but very bad for laid off folks who find few job opportunities in this sort of system. Of course, maybe this won't happen, and decent sized studios will come into existence.
In any case, the industry as a whole is doing fine when looked at long-term.
In the short term, if you take out the credit crap this is pretty much par for the course.
Once the credit crap settles and capital starts freeing up again I can see lots of start ups sprouting up everywhere. They might not all be next gen stuff though. I imagine a lot of 10-20 ppl teams making Iphone games/apps, play-for-free mmos, and more casual stuff.
Perhaps a 3G Boom?
How to weather the current climate?
Be the best at what you do, or at least sell yourself that way!
Best of luck to all those currently unemployed. If you are able to take some time off before looking. Relax!! Play a couple games that are sitting on the shelf collecting dust.
You have an entire lifetime to work.
B
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/50816
Ten Ton Hammer is proud to sponsor a unique giving opportunity this holiday season. Last week we ran a news story highlighting the fact that a number of developers at a prominent MMORPG development house were going without a paycheck, with no promise of when they could expect their pay in full. Yet these developers go to work each day, continuing to work on one of the most anticipated MMORPG titles of 2009.
The only new element is the recession and credit being difficult to gain and investors being more frugal in reaction to the financial climate.
So what's happening is that all this finance stuff is the catalyst for prompting the bigger names to just trim the fat and the smaller companies who were just getting by are exposed and unable to get investors or publishers to risk what they would have before.
A lot of places get by routinely by borrowing and like most people do these days, they over borrow while betting that things will get better down the road. It's pretty clear now ( though I'd argue it was always common sense before!) that borrowing and betting on the future is not a good long term plan and its just caught up with everyone so the games industry like every other industry is just reflecting that currently.
On A more positive view however, they due tend to keep the talent most of the time.
That's not what I'm seeing. Electronic Arts whacked 600 jobs in October. Ensemble, owned by Microsoft, got killed the month before. Lucasarts put a bunch of people out of work in the summer. Etc etc.
Mine is an outsider's point of view, but I think this is different from the usual cycle people are referring to. Seeing bloated startups fall apart (Flagship, for example) is pretty normal. Seeing studios with bad management (Midway) fail, that's normal too. But I don't think there's any way to look at Ensemble/MSG and say they weren't successful or that Lucasarts doesn't have cash to pay the bills.
I expect some of the older folks remember ten years ago when Sierra Entertainment shutdown multiple studios in a single day, "Black Monday" and all. Successful studios broken apart because the parent company was in poor shape (one of those closures, PyroTechnix, is the entire reason I don't work in the games industry.) What's going around now seems akin to that, but on a larger scale. The global economy is such that success is no guarantee of job security. I'd expect more cuts at the big conglomerates like EA, Sony and Ubisoft before this is done, simply because their shares are owned by people who are getting killed in other markets.
The video game industry isn't collapsing, but the world market is. And so the games industry is going to take it in the pants far more than usual. It's not the death knell of the industry, but it might be time for someone to figure out a more secure business model. As it is, things seem likely to get worse before they get better, just because the causes extend far above the affected studios and their employees.
As an aside, I have to say I honestly admire the hell out of you guys for being able to pack up and move around the country to follow the work - that stress alone would kill me, to say nothing of the job itself
Seriously 150 people over 3 years and you don't have a fully playable level yet?
Vacation or a couple games to keep everyone occupied for a few weeks?
Sure there are layoffs happening, but overall the industry is healthy
Lots of companies were spending tons of cash flying in people for interviews, putting them up in hotels for a week to see how they fit in, just to get talent in the doors a few years back. Now they can get hundreds upon hundreds of new talent to look through.
The talent pool has gotten full of great applicants making it harder to get in the doors, and the over abundance of choices in the same game markets are causing great games to go unnoticed and unplayed. I don't think it's going to collapse, but I do see a big realignment back to consolidation of resources and hard times ahead for many more game companies as the recession puts more pressure on those companies already strapped for capital.
I think it'll get worse before it gets better. I would love for the game industry to come back like it was a few years ago, but I think those days have sailed and now companies are realizing that they can't throw cash around like they used to, so you'll see less developers around and a much more competitive job field for us. Hopefully that will entail higher paychecks, but realistically it will probably be lower since they'll be able to hire newer recruits for less money.
my confused and nonthought out 2 cents.
Vacation
- BoBo
I always felt Ensemble was 'a long time coming'. If I'm not mistaken, it was MS's most expensive studio, and they made RTS games. Seemed only natural.
EA does this almost every year around this time.
Lucas Arts announced they were going to start with external development, i.e. outsourcing.
I personally think that publishers got too big too fast. It's part of that cycle. As you mentioned before, Sierra did this many years back. EA has been doing this for a long time, as have other publishers. It just seems like everything is lining up this year and we're paying more attention because of the economic crisis.
I see a lot of obsolete dinosaurs comfortably nestled in upper management at many of these companies, and they tend not to lose their jobs over minor recessions due to their nepotistic claws being sunk in pretty deeply.
A major shakeup might be what's needed to get rid of them.
And as Bobo alluded to, the talented passionate and ambitious ones tend to be the ones to land on their feet.
some good points made here and there, it's good to see people aren't sugarcoating this.
I'm not saying there aren't reasons for those layoffs I mentioned, just that they weren't related to the studios' lack of success. That's really the thing about the game industry that drives me crazy, that job stability isn't tied to performance.