No reply, do i keep emailing?
polycounter lvl 16
Just this past week i've decided to take it upon myself to finally apply for an industry job, one that could lead me to the job that i really want at the company i really want to work for.
The job i'm applying for is Mobile Game Artist at Id Software, in hopes that it will lead me to mainstream 3d character artist in time.
This company is like, the reason i became a game artist, the reason i love doing what i do and i want to do it for them on any project they have in the pipeline because i know that i'm going to love it. I love their mobile games, though i think i'd be a more fitting artist as their current art is really lacking in the mobile department.
I really want this job, and i keep hearing that persistence is key, but do i have to worry about becoming irritating?
The job i'm applying for is Mobile Game Artist at Id Software, in hopes that it will lead me to mainstream 3d character artist in time.
This company is like, the reason i became a game artist, the reason i love doing what i do and i want to do it for them on any project they have in the pipeline because i know that i'm going to love it. I love their mobile games, though i think i'd be a more fitting artist as their current art is really lacking in the mobile department.
I really want this job, and i keep hearing that persistence is key, but do i have to worry about becoming irritating?
Replies
But then again it doent mean you wont be called back because there might be alot other applicants they have to look at.
Also keep in mind during the holiday seasons those sort of hiring desicions could be pushed back until the new year.
you did what now?
lets see if i've got this straight ... you applied directly via email to the BOSS of a company, and told them that their art was poor and that you are the saviour of this problem, telling THEM where THEY want to be?
seriously, what reaction were you expecting here?
"but ... but ... my god, he's right! What the hell were we thinking? We need to fix this soon as, quick, get him in, only he has the ability and insight to make this happen"
or
"excuse me? Get stuffed, you cheeky twat" (or whatever the american equivalent is)
or
"... yeah, yeah, whatever. Next."
i mean, a bit of common sense never hurt, did it.
seeing as you've already taken this direction, i really would suggest backing off and hoping your stuff slips quietly into the HR keepnet
Well you cant be certain of that,mobile aspect of game development is growing and it seems like quite a few developers are getting into it as the market for mobile games grow. I had a few ex colleagues leave my company to form their own mobile games company and they are already getting quite a few clients.
But you could be right,it could be either the holiday slow down,so it could be that the company isnt hiring until after the start of the first business quarter or they just did not like your work enough to give you a call.
EDIT: Oh i missed that part that Danr just pointed out. That is not good to do.
You gots some stones, son!
I wouldn't hold my breath - they might take a few weeks or even months to get back to you (if they want you to come in for an interview/art test that is). If not, you probably won't hear from them at all. I'd send them an email once every few weeks, or whenever you update your folio with some new work - shows them you're keen.
???
Echo-ing dan...you emailed ID software.The biggest daddy of the biggest daddy there is, and you told them that their art wasnt upto par? YOU CRAZY?!
Serioulsy,though. To be VERY honest, if i got that mail,i'd think that the mail was sent by a teenager(the ones who post up game/mod requests and dont even know how to make one) who didnt know what he is talking about. You dont have ALOT of art in your folio (theres the bobo skin,the low poly knight and that wraith guy) that would show that youre experienced but rather shows you just started and youre expecting that ID is going to pick you up? ID is no joke.They're the pioneers of alot of shit that you see being done these days.To be honest, i dont think that NO artist should be so full of himself that he thinks that HE HIMSELF has what it takes to "take a company up".
bad move
Good luck though!
EDIT:
haha or that
The thing is, NEVER badmouth people's stuff, especially the ones in charge, in their own position they can get extra touch about that sort of thing. Hope the part you mentioned helps to defend your statement.
- Your entire texture is twice as big as the actual screensize of the device you made it for
- Half of your texture could ahve been mirrored, making it possible to make it a 128x128 instead
- 256x256 are insanely large texture size for a mobile game(hell, its probably too much for a nintendo ds even!)
- Alpha maps on a mobile phone? You should have avoided those.
You should have gone with a 'Im new, but willing to learn blabla' kind of thing man.
i think your trying/pushing too hard
6 days is extreemly short for a company to reply, some companies give you a short note that they recieved your stuff, others wont.
It mostly takes at least 2 weeks to recieve that note, and then another 2 before they know if and when you can drop by for an interview.
If you havent heard from them after those first two weeks, yeah sure through up a reminder, there is a chance you ended up at a pile of other stuff they have to work though, but 6 days..
Say only positive stuff in your email (within limits, not ooo i love you balbabla, just say you want to make kickass art.), if you put in negative things they may not quite get your point and you look like a retard. You should not want to crit them on things anyway, but if you do, do it in an interview or something so you can back it up with why you think so. oh and let someone els read your email before you send it.
persistence is not key, and if you dont need a job by the end of next week, give them some time. If you keep spamming them it becomes irritating. Also putting up time limits for them to react wont work, they will contact you if they want something.
Dont feel bad if this doesnt work out, maybe try somewhere els to start out, build up portfolio and you can always try again later.
I once thought about applying to ID as a cleaner and then leave bits of my artwork lying around.
It would be a bit like good will hunting( maybe not)
Though the character does look very nice, personally I'd mirror the UVs of the hood and cape and stack all the finger UVs on top of one painted finger. Use creative UV mapping and geometry tricks to get asymmetry, instead of textures.
As for the application, I wouldn't expect even the most accomplished/established applicant in any industry to directly criticize the work of a company he/she was applying for.
If you never hear from them, there's a good chance it's because of your approach, or maybe they just didn't bother to inform you that they weren't interested (very common in this biz). Regardless of the reason, I'd suggest you take on board what people have said here so far.
Don't let it get you down, chalk it up to experience and be more tactful with your words next time around. You can easily say you think you'd be an asset to somebody's team, without ragging on the people you're looking to end up working beside.
I'd also drop the part about telling them when you'll be following up your app', it sounds almost threatening, in a weird way. Personally, I wait two weeks after applying and then follow up if I've not heard anything. I politely ask if they've had a chance to review my app' and tell them I'd appreciate any feedback they might have regarding my application and folio, even if they aren't interested in hiring me.
Good luck, dude. Keep us posted too, maybe some nutter in HR will think you're a tenacious go-getter and offer you a lead position or something.
*edit*
In order for this post to be somewhat helpful, check out Kenneth Fejers work, he has some amazing mobile/ds spec art. Lowpoly page here: http://www.kennethfejer.com/lowpoly.html Note the textures sizes... Check out his other stuff as well since he's a very talented artist.
Definition: separated or at a distance in place or position or time; "These towns are many miles apart"; "stood with his legs apart"; "born two years apart"
Hey Pixel,were you awake this morning during the earthquake?
Yes I was
I woke up for a moment,thought the neighbhors upstairs were shagging and then went back to sleep. Totally missed it.
Sorry to derail but i was wondering about the earthquake that occured this morning in Denmark and Sweden
I see two ways into the top places. (Yes even the mobile division).
1) Be so amazing that they can't afford to not hire you. Which means outshining everything they are currently doing effortlessly (BUT BEING HUMBLE ABOUT IT).
OR
2) Be so amazing that they can't afford to not hire you. Which means working in the industry for a few years at a lesser studio, building up your rep, your experience and your resume and slowly deflating your bloated ego, then sliding over (after killing a few other applicants).
Mind you, that both examples actually require you to be better then you actually think you are.
With the huge amount of layoffs recently, the frenzied hiring (that happens in the summer to make it on store shelves by xmas) slowing down and places just starting new projects and not needing huge numbers of staff at the beginning of projects, they are more interested in experienced people looking to lay a solid foundation. The frenzied "we'll hire anyone, even with a huge ego" comes at the tail end, normally in the summer. I doubt they'll have trouble finding super qualified people willing to work on mobile games.
Personally I think Dan hit the nail on the head, you blew it big by taking your ego and ramming it head long into theirs which is much bigger, and has hardened over time. Unfortunately this will only make an amusing "how I didn't get in on my first try" story. Don't worry everyone has one, even if they don't want to admit it.
Lesson learned now buck up and get crackin' There's a place out there willing to work with you, just make sure you learned your lesson before applying.
In short: Don't talk down to Eisenstein about his theory of relativity. Yes even in the off chance that he's wrong and you're right, be respectfully humble and reverent.
Its probably best you learn that now early because it could save you alot of problems in the future.
Its a small industry and one stain on your reputation can follow you a long time in your career.
that just made my day AZ....funny shit
I can confirm that this will get you some attention.
Apart from that, yes, normally you tell them what you can bring into the company, but you do NOT tell them that they are wrong and you got the solution. Its just a pompus attitude. I doubt that you ever will get a reply on that mail.
I also was unaware of the current job problems in the industry, being a freelancer normally, doesnt give you this insight into the industry.
As for not emailing the ceo, well you guys should do a lil bit of research like i did before i emailed. I use Id's Job page to find the email to apply for mobile artist. If you go there and look at the email address, its kak, not jobs. kak is Katherine Anna Kang's email, aka ceo of fountainhead, and John carmack's wife. I did my research so i could personalize the email, and call her by her name. The application is SUPPOSED to go to the ceo, i didnt aim that high because of my eagerness.
I appreciate every comment you guys have left me, i'll definitely be taking it much slower, as for the email in 3 days, i'll wait a couple weeks before i send that one, wich many more mobile spec samples to show just how eager and happy i would be to work in their mobile department.
I think that pretty much sums it up haha
Spark
Its not like i'm trying to replace the lead artist on the doom project, i just want to help make art assets for a cell phone game.
Maybe i'll just go in hiding for a while cuz i have apparently solidified myself in all your eyes as a complete douchebag. so yea thanks for that.
Apply today, follow up a week later, send a second followup so they know you're still interested.........never hear from them again.
but.....there are rare exceptions, like when I was hired at gearbox in less than 2 weeks back when Aliens was starting to ramp up. Out of the 30 companies I applied too since my layoff at the end of October only 4 have responded. It's a sad state at the moment for us out of work.
My advice is to keep applying, while your waiting for a response back. Work on your portfolio, make something new and better. Eventually someone will contact you.
I think i'll just wait a month or two to make a whole bunch of new shit, then try again.
When the next Dominance War or CG Challenge comes along you can prolly redeem yourself through that if you can pull it off.
Show don't tell.
As for this debacle, its nothing. You can weather this. Seriously you're fine just don't continue to make the same mistakes. The first mistake is always free...
If you do feel like making contact again (which I think you should), wait two weeks, and in that time update your portfolio, crank out a new piece and really make it optimized for mobile. As stated before the wraith asset you did has some pretty major changes that need to be made for it to be usable. That way your email won't be just pestering but "Hey check out this update I did".
I did that for Mythic and I was sent to the main HR guy who checked out my website portfolio while we were on the phone.
I'm sure you didn't come off in your email anything close to what this thread has made you feel like, so don't sweat it. It's the people in charge of hiring that count, always remember that and don't get discouraged by companies not getting back to you or passing you by, you'll never know the exact reasons why. So just keep at your work and improve because it's what you love and you'll get hired when the time is right. If your work was good enough but a company didn't give you a test and an interview because of some stupid internet thread or heresay, would you really want to work for them anyway? Doesn't seem like a very objective business philosophy does it?
Keep rockin'.
Try also not to sell the artists in those jobs down the river as you do it. I would assume those artists working on cell phones would consider themselves mainstream artists too.. A few times in this thread, you've stated I'm not applying for a great artist position, I'm applying for a shitty cell phone art position. This may not be what you meant, but it can come across that way.
When applying for a job and they get the feeling you are just applying to get a foot in the door and don't plan on staying at that position for long, because it seems beneath you, they'll just move along to another candidate, so be careful how you word things, even on forums. It's a small community, and people that you are trying to impress may very well be perusing these forums as well.
Good luck though man, you'll find something eventually, it's just reeeeeeal rough out there right now.
This is actually pretty sound advice, you just did it wrong. Don't try and show them (i.e. tell them), just actually be better, and let your work speak for itself.
good read though , i honestly dont blame the guy for being impatient with the replies...
When i was trying to get into the industery I was obsessively checking my email for replies (im not the only one guilty of this) and would freak out if i didnt hear back within a few days, i have learned my lesson though because i have had replies from companies take months at times.