Zeitgeist: Addendum
polycounter lvl 19
I know a lot of you watched the first one, well he's followed it up with Addendum.
[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912[/ame]
I feel about as sick now while I watch it as I did during the first.
[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912[/ame]
I feel about as sick now while I watch it as I did during the first.
Replies
It's an interesting movie that raises a lot of questions. Even if 10% of it is true, I know more than I did 2 hours ago.
The stuff that goes on a bit later in the video about the Venus Project is pretty cool. Nothing we'd ever see in our life time, but still cool to fathom.
:P
so far its pretty interesting and educational. its been a good enlightenment on the prospect of infinite dept, which to me (perhaps a naive opinion) may just be a way to keep up with a mass society that it self grows constantly at an doubling rate per decade. The narrator's translation of a modern version of slavery really biased in a way. a lot of technology to expand the human race is under production; hubble, mission to mars, the Hadron collider, whatever. perhaps thats what the federal reserve funds. Its nothing more than more complex version than when I used to work at Taco Bell as a Team leader; I made sure everyone did their job correctly to expedite some tacos, and we get paid. That taco fed someone, but I digress and will continue watching.
so far to me its seems like its about management, not modern slavery
I'm glad for this. To comment on one small section of the video, I'm glad there is mention of the US's involvement in Iran in the 1950s. In many 9/11 related discussions here, I've mentioned the history of Iran. The US involvement for installing leadership that caters to American interest. The continued occupation of the lands of the Middle East, and the ignorance towards their culture and how the US has violated it. The illusion of stepping in to resolve conflict, and then refusal to rebuild traditions, and create schools, solidifying future conflict. Ok, I'm starting to ramble now. I'm not a history major. I'm not a genius. I simply had a curiosity, and I looked for answers. It's from saying "F U" to THE NEWS, and locating the source of today's problems yourself to satisfy the the unanswered, instead of hearing a constant broadcast of its symptoms. Everyone can do it. If you have the time between jobs.
Ask anyone, any normal American, if the tragic events that are the cause of today's US involvement in foreign lands provoked in any way by the US government? If they answer no, then you see just how tight of a grip the popular news media has the population in ignorant obedience, and the educational system has failed. History is ignored and repeated.
I swear, if bible boy contributes to this thread with any short trolling response without watching the video, I'm going to lose it.
conclusion:
intellectual people with an agenda and some video editing software can be very dangerous. nuff said.
boycott the military! im'a rob all you're houses, and see who stands in the way ( of course it is only the locals which may just include local cops, but I'm sure i can cause enough ruckus the national guard will be involved).
also, an economy and society that is under panic and recession(U.S. of course) is also vulnerable to intricately presses agendas.
too many contradictions and absurd statements in this film. don't really feel like my time has been wasted. whats this first one you speak of?
The whole part of the world acting as a community is something I've been thinking about for awhile now... but how affective would 1 giant world community be...? If we had no government or world leader to tell us what to do... how organized would this 1 giant community be? Smaller is better (that's what she said... HAR HAR HAR... doh! )
I personally think something very very bad has to happen to shake things up, something in our own very backyard's that effect us all into fully realizing what the shit is actually going on... more so to a point where we basically have to re-build our civilization, where religious beliefs, skin colour etc. has no affect on judgment, only if you are willing to help or not. Until then, this and everything else is but a dream.
I personally think we as a society now are just to lazy to do anything about it, obviously there are some great people out there that invoke change, and inspire people to go forth with newer ideas as to how we should live our lives, but they are too far between, and usually get shut down before they can truly make their impact.
So I guess we can make videos and hopefully inspire the "Slackers" and see what happens
Either way, I thought it was very entertaining, and I hope he continues to make more videos. By any chance does he have anything else out there? (besides Zeitgeist).
The Venus project however seems like something everyone can get behind even if you dont believe the rest. It might not be perfect but does seem alot better than what we have today and what possible argument could you present against ending world hunger, poverty, debt, pollution and unintelligence?
Everyone should make up their own mind about it but atleast try to spread it so they do have that choice
You have to paint them out of the picture some way... I mean stop using their products would do it, but it would hit the economy even harder, which would put the entire world into another depression, and I think we like our materials way to much to take such a risk.
Arguments against all this would be the "forbidden planet" type scenario where noone works and would live in a state of apathy. Personally I know I would be just as creative no matter if I made money or not and I have a hard time thinking that everyone would just stop all activity because they didnt have to work.
Then theres the issue of law, greed of man and all that, but like mentioned in the movie a child born into a society where no money or profit exists would have no need to feel that.
There will however still in all probability be love, and unfortunately then also jealousy. To claim that the violent nature of man would be eradicated within such a society is profound even if I believe it would minimize it to a great extent.
Obviously not perfect, there are still more benefits than flaws, and I do hope it moves beyond just a concept.
spinny: just to reply to one of your thoughts, I for one know that I wouldnt be nearly as productive/creative if I never had to worry about supporting myself or working for anything in my life. I wouldnt have bothered with school. I wouldnt have gotten into animation. I probably wouldnt even have started drawing.
With some friends in the game industry it´s clear that while some do this just as much in their spare time as in their work, some leave it when going home.
I understand your point as it raises the concern that if our society is built upon the base of technology without the need for work, would people still want to learn or expand our knowledge. Would we need to expand it? It would be a very different world, perhaps to different for us to imagine how we would act and react there and then.
As to the video I agree with you, it´s presentation is rather heavy for someone to listen to for two hours. It´s the actions of the ones that do get it that will be important, not the video itself.
Truly mindbending stuff this
I still haven't watched this one but tons of the religion stuff from the first were exaggerations or manipulations at best and completely false just as often. There are much more compelling reasons to believe Jesus was just an apocalyptic jewish rabbi.
The issue with theories like these are that the creators seem paranoid that everything out of their hands is managed by the 'elite few' -- as if there aren't tens of thousands of normal, real people involved with these systems.
I wrote up a rant about the first one some time ago (in german: http://mapping-tutorials.de/forum/showthread.php?t=15946&highlight=Zeitgeist), and I had planned to write up all wrong thesis in the movie and to confute every single. But it got so much wrong I just couldn't finish it (+ the all time "Discussing on the Internet is like running the paralympics..." thing).
But to have two points mentioned: One is the movie fails completely when it comes to interpreting what they say. E.g.: They say "Hey Jesus is fake, because his birthday is the 25th of december like this and this guy" - Fact is: The 25th of December is a bullshit of a date and is just a manifestation in form of a date of a fact that christianity around the world celebrates. It could be celebrated at the 12th of march and it would not change a thing - more important than the date itself is the message to those who believe and the message is something you can only understand through belief and recognize if you don't see it as facts but as meta-physical statements. I won't go deeper in here, TF2 is more fun.
Point 2: Look out how they present you theyr thesis. It's a form of Propaganda. They are putting linking multiple events without further context. They show you war pictures and next scene they jump on a completely different topic, then jump on some Goverment Conspiracy, then jump to religious manipulation and mix that up with church-traditions (most common error in religious discussions) and then show you some "shock" pictures again - they are not arguing with facts. They make up some of theyr stories and then try to manipulate how you feel about them by showing you unrelated pictures. Think of the context as a well structured Word-Document without pictures - you could go through, see this and this is bullshit and close it. The video how ever is trying to confuse you, to mislead you, to manipulate you and make you believe in what they say or at least somehow sympathize with them. Exact same methods as every Propaganda uses, no difference if it's Scientology or the dictatorships in the first half of the 20th century.
I kind had to stop watching when they said Al Qaeda (sp?) was invented by the US as a propoganda tool and does not exsist?
...I think Al Qaeda does exsist it's just that they are used as an excuse by the Gov, to stomp one country at a time.
Don't forget Christianity, and of course some other religions, but this one is more relevant here. You were asked to give specific facts on how the video used false information, and instead you gave your opinion. But, you love Jesus, which makes you a great debater, eh?
There were many more examples than simply Jesus' birthday. But you, in your attempt to disprove their fact, actually agreed with them. The celebration can take place at any time, any place. Why is the 25th important? Pre-Christian pagan festivals of the winter solstice. Why is it now a Christian holiday? To convert, while allowing those to continue their traditions.
Your contribution to this discussion is preaching the message of Christ, even quoting the bible itself in your german thread as a means to disprove. It's based on faith, and falls flat in this forum of artists. Keep it in your church.
Also:
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2952
haha XD
Yes there are, but the movie is saying these people are just as "enslaved" as anyone who isnt working in these systems. The real people work in these systems cause it's their job, and they need to work to live in society. By working in the system and upholding the banking institution for example, they are helping the "elite few."
Sure, every part of out banking system may not have been designed to work out the way it has, but seriously, think about it. The end results are the same. Bankers & corporations guide national agenda, seeking profit only. The current system benefits the rich (GREATLY) and why would they intentionally do something that might spoil their position of privilege?
This installment of zeitgeist is far better than the last, as it mostly concentrates on the interesting part of the first (money). Many of the points are sound, though it is certainly overdramatic.
seriously some good info in there, not much more then what you would get in a basic economics class. We covered most of the first bit in High School, OooOo big mystery unveiled heh. Its wrapped in way too much paranoid BS to be useful.
I completely agree with you. Even if you're sceptic about religious ideas or outright deny their value and thus agree with some of the points of this video, it's still worthless. There are many good critics of the christian doctrine, but somehow people seem to prefer videos like the first Zeitgist over substantiated criticism.
Zeitgeist is not the only example for this observation. People go crazy over Dawkins new criticism of the christian religion, even though J. L. Mackie [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Theism-Arguments-Against-Existence/dp/019824682X[/ame] has been available for years and Dawkins book is such a bad piece of philosophy, that a well known philosophy professor said, many of his arguments would receive a failing grade in a sophomore philosophy class. This really puzzles me.
Regardless of whether or not everything in them were facts or not, I think the underlying context is good.
i hope theres a 3rd one next year
Amen
What's next after homosapiens anyways? Whatever it is, i think they are all gonna have huge hungeback from texting so much and playing with their DSs...
No but in seriousness. I enjoyed this one as much as the first one. I especially enjoyed the part about the Venus project. Maybe the future is not so fluffy, but if your goal is the sky, aim for the stars.
Like JasonLavoie said, take this with a grain of salt, and look more towards the message of true unity and freedom worldwide.
As for E-Talk and his statment about the religious aspect...
I'm not sure if i'm interpreting you statement correctly but i think if you watched the second part you would actually realize you are in agreement with the narator. He mentions religion eventually being interpreted along the lines of philosophy and not the literal factual meaning it is today. Which I think is along the lines of what your referring to.
Venus project is definately cool, I dont' see how anyone could be against it. Seems pretty logical but very hard to implement, either small scale or everyone in the world has to agree to it.
I dont' think people would get bored in a society like the venus project as they would be able to explore and expierence knew things. Arts would no doubt flourish beyond belief and people would be able to fully realize who they are as individuals. Which i think its a major problem with all the pressures put on individuals today. With all the time in the world to do what ever you wanted I'm sure people would better understand themselves as they would have to in order to fully enjoy life. Compared to the more status quo structure of today where A + B is suppose to equal happiness.
The mag lev train numbers are BS, the travel times between different city's would be much closer in time. My concept was a vacuum sealed maglev train with half of the tube positively charged pushing it forward with the second half negative pushing it backwards thus slowing it down. As someone on the tram you would feel a slight acceleration/deceleration but hardly anything if at all. The lack of atmosphere would remove all the friction making it very safe. This system has no need for changing the charge of the panels unlike many systems. It would also have the added bonus that longer distance trips would create higher top speeds because of the constant acceleration. So say a trip from Seattle to LA could be very close to the same time of a trip from LA to new york.
now back to finishing the video.
Ahh welcome to the real world where everything is fucked but could be easily fixed.
i guess there would be alot of some scale communes, then when the general population see it working and its a better way of life the present system would collapse and everyone would switch to that type of life.
shit is hitting the fan tomorrow guys, so bring in the hard hat to work just in case..
Martial Law threatened in congress last week......
[ame]
United States military begins domestic deployment in U.S. beginning Oct. 1st (illegal under the Posse Comitatus Act, passed in 1878, until Bush overturned the law in 2006 with the John Warner Defense Authorization Act )........
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/03/army.unit/index.html
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/
Author Naomi Wolf discusses the significance of the above mentioned facts.........
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Naomi Wolf at University Of Washington about 2 years ago, explaining how and why this would happen.........
[ame]
Might be worth spreading this info around to your friends and family.
Earlier someone mentioned the book "Confessions Of An Economic Hitman" which was rather eye opening, and that was my take on it as well. Highly recomended. Also, I found author Chalmers Johnson books to be very educational as well. (Nemesis, Blowback etc.)
Lol, so if there's some kind of angry response or rioiting they should use assault rifles and grenades?
A federal force to respond to this kind of thing is less than ideal, but it's being blown way out of proportion. Does the average conspiracy theorist really think the army is made up of robots who will not hesitate to take over new york and slaughter innocent people?
The concensus on /k when this topic is brought up is that soldiers will do what they're told and that people not obeying whatever martial law is instituted will be described as terrorists endangering the lives of others.
Soldiers will follow orders, that's what they're trained to do, after all.
Well... Think about it. I'd like to think it wouldn't/couldn't happen, but how often has this happened before in different countries, different cities?
Smaller countries, smaller cities, different bases of soldiers, different command structures.
Applying history is all well and good, but it only works if you understand what makes forces like this tick. A whole combat brigade? Not gonna follow orders that dont make sense. An american force? Not in a home city, we're some of the most blindly nationalistic people in the world.
Military history is actually really interesting, and understanding it will let you see the contradictions and poor logic on both sides of the fence's political arguments.
8FtSpider: One combat brigade can not hold the country, or a state, or even a very big city under martial law. There will have to be a lot more troops redeployed before that's what we have to fear. This force can either do the mission it's been stated they're going to do, or attack a domestic target. Not hold something.
In the event that there is martial law, trying to stop it by force or rioiting will get you detained or injured.
Gotta start somewhere.
All I'm saying is that I would advise against supporting the assumption that soldiers will not follow orders. Regular civilians will almost always do what authority tells them to, trained soldiers even more so. Soldiers told that they are keeping the peace, protecting their country, or whatever other spin they put on it will follow orders.
The first one had some interesting things in it, but was unfortunately peppered with quite a LOT of flatout untrue pseudo facts.
This one is very scary in light of the current recession and bailout.
http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=365