Warmachines , Character Scene
polycounter lvl 17
ok I did say I was sculpting with a friend on my odd days, at my night job im working on my next gen scene, so im multi tasking right now, anyway so I started work on my next gen scene (thanks vig for the ref stuff)
Im going for a small scene because I still want the focal point to be my character in the end, I just wanna add some scenes for added details when making these
Anyway I took alot of stuff from the books and expanded on that (If you have the books look at page 1 and look at my floor pannel :P)
Anyway the downside is Im not sure if im adding to much or to little to this scene. I was planing on adding a crane lever thing from above the ceiling haning....any other recommendations of what I should add/ not add/ tweak?
Im going for a small scene because I still want the focal point to be my character in the end, I just wanna add some scenes for added details when making these
Anyway I took alot of stuff from the books and expanded on that (If you have the books look at page 1 and look at my floor pannel :P)
Anyway the downside is Im not sure if im adding to much or to little to this scene. I was planing on adding a crane lever thing from above the ceiling haning....any other recommendations of what I should add/ not add/ tweak?
Replies
Is this a high poly scene to be used as a source for normal maps? If so, you're going to need to change all those vertical planes on the floor tiles to be angled so that the raycaster will pick them up, something like
this.
how tall is he?
is it a mech that someone rides in,
or is it like a walking robot that's as tall if not a little taller than a man?
The character second in from the left is of standard human height. I'm pretty sure Sef modeled the one in the middle, but I'm not as farmiar with Cygnar as I am with Khador.
Seforin,
You build pretty fast, you're on a roll. I really like what you have so far, the boiler thing looks cool and pretty steam punk-ish. The lightning coil things are cool also and looked ripped right from Warmachine.
Crits:
- The scene is too big to make the focus the character. Having that large of a scene will also cause you to fill up a lot of dead space. It also makes the character feel smaller.
- As Brome says all the time, nail down your cameras and pick your viewing angles. This will help considerably when filling in details. I would stick close to the floor so the character towers over the camera(viewer) but doesn't dominate the view since you want to show off the enviro as well.
- The floor could be better used for the walls if it was scaled 200%. Walls have massive loads to support so struts and rivets like that make sense for walls. Floors aren't as structurally important. Concrete is cheap, self leveling in many cases and doesn't rot or rust. Stick to concrete with minimal details, if you want to jazz up large sections of the floor, lay some hoses (yeah more simple splines) toss some opacity mapped oil stains, whatever. A really detailed floor might have a grate, or some black/white caution marks. Normally you want your floor and ceiling to be pretty uninteresting. The floor and ceiling should purposefully lack detail to drive you to what you should be looking at.
- The lightning coil things might be better put to use on top of something other than the floor. Blend them into a generator or some other piece of machinery.
- Drop the ceiling down to 2 mech heights, move the walls in two floor tiles and scale up the boiler to take up a good chunk of the background.
- Catwalks?
- Don't forget that boilers do something other than just burn coal and exhaust. Shouldn't it exhaust outside the scene? You need cold water coming in and hot steam pipes going out, along with shut off valves and maybe a few large back up pumps. Also think about how the coal gets in there, who puts it there and what his/her work station looks like. You're not just putting random junk in a scene you're creating a functioning world
So my crit on the environment would have to be that it's too big if you're trying to just have it accent your character. I would suggest making a smaller chamber type thing.
think of the marine in the opening cinematic of starcraft 2,
or the chamber that Darth Vader was getting built in, in episode 3.
it's a more personal space, and you can add a lot of detail in there that compliments the character, and it also gives the character focus, because there isn't as much space for the viewer to wander around in
anyway yea I figured the floor pattern will be to busy but it was a test, I plan on just making 1 pattern and normal maping/specing it and then tiling it all over, perhaps on the ceiling that will be a better pattern.
ok im gonna bring the sizing of the room a bit smaller,
I wanna add 1 CRAZY huge detailed boiler style thing in the center but not enough to take away from the character...I dunno so much about cat walks wouldnt that take away from the point of looking at the center of the room as oppose to look at the ceiling at that point?
I really Wanted to make one of those things that melts, metal but I couldnt find any good ref..anyone know what im talking about with that?
And I was thinking a assembly line that rolls thing but I wasnt sure, again I dont want to add to much to make to busy..
Im thinking that I wanna make this scene feel more factory..am I going about this the wrong way?
Someone suggested I do this instead for my guy...ugh I hate scenes....I can never figure out the fung-shui' of the damn thing!
https://www.youth2work.gov/_sec/media/reports/annual2003/images/goal3_1_img_14.jpg
anyway new sizing for now, I plan on doing more of a zoom on my character with the roation and then a quick camera around the room when done.
[ QUOTE ]
I really Wanted to make one of those things that melts, metal but I couldnt find any good ref..anyone know what im talking about with that?
[/ QUOTE ]You just need to know what to look for
Smelter, Iron Working, Blast Furnace:
http://www.asarco.com/AMDC/images/converter_furnace.gif
http://www.old-picture.com/united-states-1930s-1940s/pictures/Smelting-Furnace.jpg
http://www.supplierlist.com/photo_images/26389/iron-smelting_medium_frequency_furnace.jpg
http://www.faw.com/Events/images/022-2.jpg
http://www.hardwaresource.com/about_hinges/hinge_history_images/modern-steel-making.jpg
http://www.hardwaresource.com/about_hinges/hinge_history_images/modern_copper_smelting.jpg
http://www.opiniojuris.org/files/roger-copper_smelting.jpg
http://www.moltenmetalsystems.com/100_0297.JPG.JPG
Suggestion, delete one of the walls and have it lead off somewhere else. A tunnel, a doorway, a large opening for a crane, something other than a box. It helps create the illusion there is more to the scene then what you are seeing. If you can make the viewer want to explore down that hallway then its a win for you.
It might help to work in tiles, like what you started with on the floor. Have the walls be two or three tiles high, build a set of modular pieces you can arrange inside the tiles to get different looks.
Looking good, keep at it.
Other than that you like?
I plan on making all things for the envrionment 1024s and 512s only
(small things 512, big 1024)
still need to clean up the N maps a bit more
EDIT:
ALL THESE IMAGES ARE WRONG!
as far as max 2.5 star?
Uh no but I do have mental ray high set on when rendering.
For some reason looking at these maps on my pc they dont look as sharp as they did on my laptop last night. Really weird.
ok the more FIXED version now
sorry about earlier
and one great sollution is to just hard-edge the lowpoly so that the shading of the lowpoly looks proper before you bake, and then split the uv's over where you split the shading on the lowpoly.
That'll make your shading looks insanely perfect.
and it seems like you've cage-baked the holes there, you should just do a straight light-trace bake there, so the holes does not warp.
if you do these things, you'll keep it lowpoly, without any beveling, and you'll keep the shading perfect.
Like can you show some examples of what you mean/ paint over or something?
You'll inherit bad shading from a badly shaded lowpoly onto the baking.
So having smoothinggroups for those extreme 90 degree turn, or even anything that makes the shading go crazy on the lowpoly, just use smoothingroups.
Usually you'll get a shading-seam on the final model, but that can be worked around by having a UV-seam where the shading was split, that way the normalmap will bleed over the uv-seam on the texture and fix the seam.
ok so basically if I have a square box for example, and on the edges I have those edges very hard, if I were to keep the low poly and keep those edges in smooth group 2, and the top part on 1, when it registers the normal maps, it still gives it a nice hard edge look even more so than before?
Do I have to do this process pre baking or post baking though?
EDIT: Johnny , I kinda agree its a simple environment, but im trying to make my character be a focal point, so I dont want the envrionment to be to overbearing or tossing off the eye to much
like you pick a simple cube , you unwrap it , then you copy it ( not instance ) and add edes to make it when you apply 1 smoothing group only , smooth. tangent space is shitty in that way, so the shading of the lowpoly will influence the normal map, but it still will benefit hehe...
btw i dont understand when you say you want the character to be the main point yet you fill in the background full of distracting objects ? thats a bit weird, thats like sayng : "i want this wall to be green , but only 1 cm square"
if you want the character to be the focal point just give him a base
Not beeing a prick, just stating what i think honestly, but i would keep going with this since you have a pretty solid idea what you want of it !
good luck man
I had a few people telling me it was going to be a overpowering scene, but I also have particle work on the character in the center, so If I do that I believe the eye will go back to him and not the envrionment, not sure about the blur effects for the back just yet, I might do some other particle work in the scene but still up in the air at this point.
And yea dont worry back walls arent going to be green, there going to be pink
This is how you should do it
the first one uses one smoothinggroup, and as you see, the shading inherits on the baking. badly.
the other one has smoothingroups to fix the shading, but the normalmaps cannot work properly like this, so it creates a seam.
the last one has the UV split, so the normalmaps can do their thing, result: shading is perfect.
Damn that sucks gotta re uvunwrap alot of these then =\
but with this method you always end up with the perfect bake, and perfect bakes are a must, since shading flaws are very very noticable.
the normalmapped asset should look identical to the highpoly in the shading.
Thanks again for the advice eld
Also johnny, this still to crazy to show off based off that angle?
A new update, going into photoshop to fix alot of these old problems now
redid ALOT of the maps now, hope this is looking a bit more nicer
The side walls and floors arent the official before anyone says anything, so far all thats left is the floor, side walls ceiling magma tumbler and machine press, and then all lighting from there.
any ideas what I should do for those side walls? Texture wise?
Floor (base)
Floor platform (Thing with holes in it)
Suggestions would be awesome
all thats left to be texture is the tumbler and then its all lighting and particle work from there!
what about lighting wouldnt that add to it though?
I Was planning on rendering out the character as seporate unit to get the AO layers as I render it out so I could take that back into after effects and really pump up the quality of the character,
Im guessing I Should just finish that tumbler and then do a 2nd pass of all the texturing after I place some lighting if the lighting dosent make my guy go pop
Its odd though I figured all they gray metals would make your eye lead away from the envrionment and more towards the char since hes a bright blue and all
also johny your avatar looks like the same face you made for halloween
is this feeling a bit better to most peoples eyes now?
The lighting working for everyone or no?
also adding in particles for magma // fire etc
Crits:
You might need more foreground lighting it feels like the focus is not on the character but behind it. which is kind of a dead spot? The conveyor belt makes a cool looking S through the scene but there isn't much to bend around. Since that forge piece that looks like a jet engine is pretty cool looking it might be a good idea to scale it up and give a reason why the belt bends the way it does? Unless you have something else planned for that space?
modeling looks awesome! Background color is too saturated. Bleach it out a little bit to pop the robot