Post job interview responses
polycounter lvl 18
So, I'm curious to get some feedback on this, since I haven't been actively interviewing for years.
Do you guys think that employers that interview candidates are under *any* kind of obligation at all to get back to those candidates with a yes or no? Or should ZERO response after interview suffice as a 'code' that you have not got the gig?
So, here's the thing. I've now had TWO cases (perhaps even 3 If Z doesn't get back to me bloody soon!) in the last few months of initial *very* positive approaches from companies, followed by seemingly very positive interviews. Heck, X company's initial approach was even prefaced with 'how long would it take you to move here?' ('here' being a different country). Phone interview ended with a 'we would love to have you come and work for us, we just need to figure out our needs our end based on workload. We'll BE IN TOUCH'.
So, here I am, a couple of months later, with zero contact from them. I've sent the HR woman who initially approached me (yes, the same one that e-mailed ME with a potential request for moving bloody continents) 2 e-mails now, both seperated by several weeks, both *very* polite and carefully worded. Stuff like 'I really hate to seem like Im bothering you, but I have other opportunities now that I absolutely have to make a decision on fast, but the fact that you guys have not responded to me with a definitive yes or no leaves me in a tough spot. I would very very much appreciate any kind of an update that you could give me, even If and particularly If it is a 'no thanks'.
And still, absolutely nada in return. Zilch, zip, nothing.
I know that she's still around, since one time I got an out of office auto reply, and another I didn't, so she has at some point changed reply settings.
I mean bloodyhell, am I being unreasonable here? Am I not simply asking for common courtesy to be extended to me here, or am I asking too much?
Im about to send a 3rd and final e-mail to them. Perhaps even a tiny bit more tersely worded now. Am I making a mistake? Am I meant to 'take' the no response as a 'no'? Is this code for 'fuck off' that Im meant to get?
Thoughts?
Do you guys think that employers that interview candidates are under *any* kind of obligation at all to get back to those candidates with a yes or no? Or should ZERO response after interview suffice as a 'code' that you have not got the gig?
So, here's the thing. I've now had TWO cases (perhaps even 3 If Z doesn't get back to me bloody soon!) in the last few months of initial *very* positive approaches from companies, followed by seemingly very positive interviews. Heck, X company's initial approach was even prefaced with 'how long would it take you to move here?' ('here' being a different country). Phone interview ended with a 'we would love to have you come and work for us, we just need to figure out our needs our end based on workload. We'll BE IN TOUCH'.
So, here I am, a couple of months later, with zero contact from them. I've sent the HR woman who initially approached me (yes, the same one that e-mailed ME with a potential request for moving bloody continents) 2 e-mails now, both seperated by several weeks, both *very* polite and carefully worded. Stuff like 'I really hate to seem like Im bothering you, but I have other opportunities now that I absolutely have to make a decision on fast, but the fact that you guys have not responded to me with a definitive yes or no leaves me in a tough spot. I would very very much appreciate any kind of an update that you could give me, even If and particularly If it is a 'no thanks'.
And still, absolutely nada in return. Zilch, zip, nothing.
I know that she's still around, since one time I got an out of office auto reply, and another I didn't, so she has at some point changed reply settings.
I mean bloodyhell, am I being unreasonable here? Am I not simply asking for common courtesy to be extended to me here, or am I asking too much?
Im about to send a 3rd and final e-mail to them. Perhaps even a tiny bit more tersely worded now. Am I making a mistake? Am I meant to 'take' the no response as a 'no'? Is this code for 'fuck off' that Im meant to get?
Thoughts?
Replies
Dunno whether or not sending the email is a good idea, but in your position I would deffinatly be doing the same.
Though I've heard of people getting the "we're not looking for new people right now" letter.
it does suck though... companies never seem to consider that when you are waiting for a new job your on the edge of your seat!
Did you get these offers through people you know at those companies?
It is just strange that they approached you and now are stand offish. I don't know man, I am sure something will head your way...you have way too much talent.
Though I've heard of people getting the "we're not looking for new people right now" letter.
[/ QUOTE ]
But AFTER an interview? AFTER an interview whereby they approached me?! I can understand that response after initial approach sure, but as a response it doesn't make much sense in the context of you already having interviewed with them. Not to mention them ending the interview with stuff like I mentioned above (were keen, we'll be in touch etc).
So far I've had 'sorry, you're not a good fit for us right now', 'sorry, we need Nurbs experience' or 'sorry, we need feature experience'. All valid responses that help me. I can handle a 'no' no problem at all. I'm a big boy now. But to be blatantly ignored (after interview) is really starting to piss me off. I had no idea that that behaviour was common and perfectly acceptable. That'll learn me!
But still, that's different from them approaching me, me interviewing, then being ignored.
Tim: In one case I did know somebody on the inside yes, but in the other that I talk about in more detail, no. I was dealing with recruitment.
At any rate, I find that the casual/polite/demure approach doesn't help. If you want a conclusive answer, continue to contact them. Once it's gone more than a month with an answer, persistence costs you nothing - there's no penalty for being a pest since it appears they're not looking to hire you anwyway, and there's a chance they'll take your enthusiasm and diligance into account (a very slight chance, but again, it costs you nothing).
I agree this exceptionally frustrating. I was interviewed by a company for a development position TWICE a couple years ago, and they didn't give me a definitive answer until the seventh or eighth time I contacted them. Once, Procter & Gamble actually contacted me about working as a visual designer for them, and damned if I didn't get the silent treatment after I had submitted my portfolio. Talk about getting the rug yanked out from under you... Fortunately, this stuff doesn't bother me as much as it once did; freelancing gives you exceptionally thick skin
"In my experience, this is 100% par for the course."
Yeah, I guess I was afraid of the answer, but deep down knew it.
I am actually fairly thick skinned though, and this isn't an ego thing at all. It's entirely a convenience and logistical issue.
I literally do have other people from company Y bugging me, but I really wanted to work for company X, and they gave me the impression it was all good, so I was holding out, only to not hear anything, so basically company X is fucking with me and making my life extremely difficult needlessly.
It's staggeringly rude when you think about it.
But anyway, good point about me continuing to hound them and there being nothing to lose!
Give it a shot.
I would definately take the advice people are giving to get in touch, and 'touch base'. Find out the status of the application.
Are you still considering game work? I have to ask
OK this is fucking hilarious. I just sent her one more e-mail. I wasn't pissy, but I was firm. I then just decided to check their website, and there's new hire announcements splashed all over it, dated April the 24th, including a 3D modeler! Oh man, that's totally fucking awesome. What a way to find out that they gave the gig to someone else. I can't get over the rudeness. So fucking charming.
http://www.cinesite.co.uk/
After having in-person interviews, I've most defineatly recieved phone calls telling the situation.
Usually, if the test wasn't a level of quality or completion that we'd like, but we're certain the person is talented, we give them an opportunity to redo it or touch it up. Sometimes they decline, and sometimes they touch up the test and land the job. It's happened with at least two guys that I recommended for a job here.
At Neversoft, our hiring process is extremely long and thorough. If someone goes through the effort of taking our tests, the least we can do is give them a response in a fairly timely manner. It doesn't always work out and sometimes a few weeks go by, but I always try to follow up with our HR dept and make sure they sent the person a followup email with our "no" answer.
Usually, if the test wasn't a level of quality or completion that we'd like, but we're certain the person is talented, we give them an opportunity to redo it or touch it up. Sometimes they decline, and sometimes they touch up the test and land the job. It's happened with at least two guys that I recommended for a job here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, I did the same thing at EA. Even If our response was a no, I provided lengthy feedback as to why the test didn't cut it.
There wasn't a test involved, but it looks like film people aren't nearly as considerate.
I guess im less polite ? I would deffinatly have CALLED them and said " what's going on " !!! I think you deserve a streight forward answer in this case so just call them !
[/ QUOTE ]
Ya know, you're absolutely right. I am going to call her on monday. If you see my post above, it's pretty apparent that the position has been filled, but I'm going to call her anyway because I want to hear her squirm with awkwardness after ignoring 3 e-mails from me over the past month.
Here I discovered from one of the companies artists that they had no intention of hiring me.
Even after this the guy kept stringing me along, day by day. phone me up tomorrow he said, phone back at 11 am , phone back at 2pm.
I knew he was fucking me around yet I let myself be sucked in.
Lo and behold he said nahh you are not experienced anough etc. He was a real cunt about it and if I ever meet that guy agin he will get a piece of my mind
but yeah, your problem might indeed be the lack of film experience and the lack of truly photoreal stuff on your reel.
you live in california though - why not start at one of the apparently many small boutiques around there and stick with a feature project or two? with some film credit it should be easier to get into one of those more established companies.
if you're considering going to london, there is one vfx company you can usually only hear good things about and that would be double negative (dneg).
but personally i find framestore's new animated feature division much more interesting.
the lack of truly photoreal stuff on your reel.
[/ QUOTE ]
Show me some 'truly photoreal' stuff on anyones reel. But yeah, I think I know what you mean. My reel isn't up to snuff. I'm slowly realising that.
Cinesite wasn't my only option. I have other cards up my sleeve as I mentioned in my original post, I just really wanted to work for them. I'm also appealled by the prospect of heading back to London for a bunch of reasons that I wont bore everyone with, so this would have killed two birds with one stone. But yes, serves me right for getting my hopes up.
At current, I don't even have an online portfolio available. I mail or literally hand-deliver an entire packet of my work to a prospective client: a custom cover letter and resume/C.V. printed on quality paper, portfolio CD with label and packaging I've designed, the whole nine yards. It's equal parts hard work and shameless self-promotion, but the end result is that I get my voice, my face or my work tangibly in front of a prospective employer. It's like I'm almost daring them to ignore me, and the impact is immeasurably greater than a guy who only advertises himself digitally. Confidence can sell where content can't, so to speak.
I feel silly telling you about any of this, Darren, as I'm certain you know how to handle this sort of things. Nonetheless, my advice in these matters is "push harder, but gently". Works with the ladies, too, dontchaknow...
Vermillion, Daz might not have needed the advice, but I did, so thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hell yeah - if you can get the ladies to pay you for it, you've officially hit the big time!
I haven't had to do an interview for some years, but I always got a constructive response along with the "no". Speaking in general terms I can see how companies in this buisness will get a lot of young hopefuls applying, some of whom will not be up to the job, but I think it's important to remain "somewhere they would like to work" by offering advice on portfolio content / interview technique / qualifications etc since a lot of these people will be doing the rounds again when they DO have the chops, and will not consider a company which blew them off in the past.
As regards film / animation work, from my experience it's the old "not what you know but who" cliche, with companies taking staff on one-to-one personal approval. I used to work for an animation company within a live action studio complex and it was almost impossible to get in from the outside. You needed to have gone to college with 'X', or maybe your father worked with 'X's father in the past - or some other tangible connection. We used to have grown men begging us to speak to a director on their behalf, or asking for jobs as 'runners', just to befriend crew members and get their faces known. And everyone loves everyone else - you never know who's going to get the next big budget - so you have to stay 'best buddies' with everyone, and critisize no-one.
..turned into a bit of a rant - sorry, just my two-cents, I'm a lot happier out of it though.
I also call up places if I get a generic rejection letter and find out what I should be improving before applying there again. This requires even more careful wording and even then doesn't always meet with anything particularly useful, but its well worth the effort.
Talking to people in person is a rare luxury but one you should definitely jump at if at all possible, even if it means a bit of travel or difficulty. After all, if you've made an extra effort to get there, then you're obviously dilligent and keen to get into the job.
I've often found that 6months down the line once I've accepted another position.... then they got back to me!
Personally, I use a companies entire correspondance with me as a yardstick for their professionalism and ethic's in regard to how they will treat me when I work for them.
If they are a cunt before they OWN ME, then they are not going to be nice to me once they own me....
r.
LOL, I just got an extremely apologetic e-mail back saying they're still interested. wtf.
U CAN DO IT DAZ' I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE
in general though i usually do get a response if I get an in person interview, i guess thats just the thing, they kind of see you as a person more than just a line of text with a name and a website.
Seeing from both ends i can tell you that job applicants are seen as a a nusence when the company is not looking; and gold dust when they can't find someone. There are only these two extremes in my experience.
I can't stress enough how fucking insenstive HR can be. I've seen them reject a candidate after I followed up to see how the process was going 9after he interviewed, and all that shit) yet didn't have the decency to tell HIM!
Talent is treated like cattle. When it's time to milk the cream everyone's all attentive...but when it's time for the slaughter they just cut off your head with a saw...no anestheic.
-R
Basically, a company that does not contact you within a reasonable amount of time after an interview is unlikely to be worth working for.
However, I would never not get back to someone I had a proper interview with.
We're a small co and dealing with applications is pretty low on my list of priorities but companies that have dedicated HR should atleast have a standard reply they can send out once a spot has been filled.
no response really does mean no.
trickles of "we'll get back to you" and even interviews and re-interviews really do mean no.
It's just plain rude on thier part and makes me think less of thier professional capacity.
I was actually in the position of hiring (and firing!) at my last place, and interviewed about 30 people for two junior artist positions. I let all of them know personally with a very direct email exactly what the outcome was. This was a small scale operation, but HR teams really should have the balls to send out a stock "we found a candidate for this job" mail to everyone who applies.
In the freelancing arena my cold calls to job postings often go un answered, I take this as a no. However building up a friendly almost jokey rappore with the HR dude you are dealing with will yeild more results. Bugging them just brings on the inevitable and, why waste your time?
Most HR departments are chicken shit. They are also often just one person. Even in large companies.
Their response that I just received was a profuse apology and some mumble about being on vacation and someone else was meant to get a hold of me but they didn't.
Apparently they are still 'very keen for me to come and work for them', but just waiting on news of pending work.
But still, I understand peoples comments about poor treatment during the the pre-hiring stage probably being a good indicator of treatment post employment. In this case however Im inclined to give the benefit of the doubt and see it as a genuine fuckup.
That said, ironically something else has just come up in the last few days I'll probably be going for instead.
Thanks for all your input.
I find it helps to remember the last crunch mode I was in, and how tough it was to stay on top of things, then imagine your interviewer being in their own crunch. It's easy to see how some outside responsibilities, like interview responses, might get laid aside and accidentally forgotten.
Good luck with the hunt man.
I've also gotten the response 6 months later after I was already employed.
It really crushes the ego when you hear a no, but nothing is worse than silence.
I got over it as soon as I hit my first crunch and saw how many emails get lost in the daily grind. That said, there is NO reason for an HR person not to get back to you- that is their job - And as far as the vacation goes... thats what autoresponse is for.
Glad to hear something else came up
"We really liked your portfolio, but your personality wasn't a good fit in the company"
"Your work is exceptional, except you do not have enough industry experience at this time" (i'm sure alot of people get this one)
Never give up your dream job, it will happen! It did for me
As far as the emotional side of things...I used to get painfully wrapped up in wanting to work/live somewhere. Then when the inevitable rejection came, I would crashed out. Everything would seem so unreachable and bleak. I posted something on here a few months ago, about emotional rollercoasters and job applications. Shotgun pointed out that I was investing alot of emotional energy in a fantasy, and in doing so was also ruining my enjoyment of where I am now. That was like a blast of fresh air through my brain, since then rejection has just become part of the process, and from an analytical side, an indication of the need for improvement and focus....that was alittle off topic, sorry [/rant]
Anyway..back to the actual topic...I was talking with my coworker about HR departments, and it struck me...Who works in an HR department? I seriously doubt there is a large number of people out there that would claim human resource management as their passion. Consiquently you probably end up with alot of people (especially in larger companies) not doing their jobs very well. Hence the unanswered emails, coflicting signals, and general intransigence.