What is the meaning of life?
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Maybe this is destined for a flame-fest. If so, feel free to close the thread.
But I'd like to hear people's thoughts. We're having an interesting discussion over on Paul Hornis' site, and that led me to be curious about how you p'counters see the world.
But I'd like to hear people's thoughts. We're having an interesting discussion over on Paul Hornis' site, and that led me to be curious about how you p'counters see the world.
Replies
Family. To experience the world and other people, and educate your kids the best you can.
EDIT: No, I guess that should read "CowboyNeal".
Actually I'd say the meaning of life is life itself. There is no deeper meaning other than what you make up.
Jabberwocky was the worst monty python movie.
Good points Soccerman18/Weiser_Cain.
"Family," yeah good point. Though I think "Making the world a better place" kind of covers that. Something about procreation and raising family hits me in the core of my being, on so many levels. That's where my vote goes.
But cmon Vig, there's really only one answer. Don't want you getting all wishy-washy.
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To give an analogy, I like to think of it as if all our lives are part of a grand design with God as the architect. Say we're all parts that go into a house. The concrete blocks used in the basement have a different purpose than the lumber used to build the frame. The shingles that cover the roof have a different purpose than the carpet that covers the floors. None of these pieces can do another's job, as they all have a different intent (a different "meaning of life"), but all still have a place in the overall design. This is why no one answer to the question of life can satisfy us all; if I'm a concrete block but try to find meaning in life the way a roofing shingle does, it's no wonder I'm not satisfied or feel I don't fit in. Moreover, some of our purposes may be things we never understand - the concrete block defines the basement walls, but likely never aprpeciates that it's also the foundation that keeps the house up and thus gives the shingles a purpose as well. As a theist, I find it easy to believe that God created us all more or less with unique intent, and that we are all meant to find meaning in our own way.
Now if only I knew what my way was...
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But cmon Vig, there's really only one answer. Don't want you getting all wishy-washy.
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Saying there is only one answer sounds like you might know which one is the right choice? Who is to say there is only one? Is that meaning true for everyone or is it different for some people? Maybe one person might think thier personal meaning means something other than what the rest of the world thinks?
Example: Gaundi. When you ask what was the meaning of Gaundi's life you would say to bring about peace. But what if he thought it was only about getting skinny and getting attention?
What if someones meaning changes from day to day, hour to hour? What if your life has multipule meaning over the entire course of your lifetime? When I was younger I would have said sex drugs and rock n roll. Now I would answer Devotion to God. When I have childern I'm sure God will still be #1 on the priority chain by my whole reason for living at that point is to raise those childern in the best way I can.
Meaning and pourpse are tied so closely together that I don't think you can actually give a blanket statement for an answer.
What if I was to say "Making the world a better place" by "Devotion to God"? Or "There is no meaning, only Chaos" so I am going to worry about "Personal happiness".
Or what about "Personal happiness" through "Sex, drugs, and rock & roll"?
I guess those are more answers how someone might achive the answer to the question or piggy backed in a way to sound like you could choose two and not the answer you are looking for. So my final (not really I'm sure I'll have more to say) answer is 42.
So going back on track evolving is the best I can give. Not staying still. Moving. Growing mentally. Gaining both human knowledge, and inner knowledge (spirituality if you will).
BTW Happiness cannot be sustained without Sadness. Otherwise its no longer happiness.. It's Soma.
Of course everyone has a different view, that's what makes social discourse so much fun.
Asking a question like this is like asking a toddler to do the math nesseary to send a rover to mars and take soil samples. You will get wildly different answers but if you ask enough of them one might get it right, but chances are they won't be able to tell you why. Just like you can find out the right answer to a multipule choice test by picking all the wrong answers first.
(yes I called everyone stupid and I honestly don't think anyone can answer "what is the meaning of life" for everyone, for all time.)
I think that "meaning" is a human concept; nothing has any inherent purpose or meaning, beyond the purpose and meaning that you personally attribute to it. So in that sense, the meaning of life is whatever you feel it is. If you feel that the meaning of life is to eat fish heads, I can't tell you that you're wrong; if you feel that there is no meaning to life beyond a random series of events, I can't say you're wrong.
As for the meaning I personally attribute to my life, or life itself? I'm not quite sure. I enjoy life, so I don't worry too much about my ultimate meaning or purpose.
We do of course need to look to our own drives and a life's purpose must include self exploration but never in such a way as to curtail the richness of others lives.
To know ourselves is a lifetimes work alone I think and it is the ultimate purpose, I just feel that that the quest should be undertaken with the set of rules I defined above in the hope of not adding to the problems of the world.
I constantly struggle with my own set of rules because I'm paranoid, confrontational and cynical. Despite that, I am passionate and considerate and I genuinely try to be a good person but most of us will still wail a week for a minutes mirth anyway
r.
I constantly struggle with my own set of rules because I'm paranoid, confrontational and cynical.
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Don't be discouraged by this news, ladies - our Kevin is also one hell of a dancer!
r.
I also agree that there is great importance in the voyage of figuring out who you are too, but I also think that there can be a fine line between commited self discovery and narcissism.
What I mean by that is that self discovery is all good as long as it isn't to the detriment of people's lives around you. That's a lesson I've learned the hard way.
What's hitting me recently as I get older and ponder my own 'rootlessness' ( the perils of being an ex pat I think ) is that life is really all about the impact yours makes on other people. If you leave this earth without leaving behind any kind of indelible impression on others, I think it would have all been a bit pointless yeah. Which is tough for those of us with artistic introvert sensibilities I know.
What I mean by that is that self discovery is all good as long as it isn't to the detriment of people's lives around you. That's a lesson I've learned the hard way.
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When I would get that way my dad used to say, "There is a point the universe rotates around. Guess what that point is not you sunshine".
...is that life is really all about the impact yours makes on other people. If you leave this earth without leaving behind any kind of indelible impression on others, I think it would have all been a bit pointless yeah.
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I don't believe there is such a thing as 'leaving behind any kind of impression on others'.
On the outer appearance it might make sense, just as humans seem to be social beings, but deep down in their psyche every one is a completely solitary, isolated 'soul' which is just interacting with its material surroundings.
There is no such thing as real empathy or things like that, it is just an outer layer that helps us interacting with the surrounding (and is fooling ourselves to keep us sane to a certain level).
Basicly saying there is no such thing as 'others' to our psyche, which makes it impossible to leave an real impression on others.
The most practial example of this mind theory is that is impossible to really learn something from others, you have to experience it yourself to learn.
So that more or less leaves only yourself as any possible target of a 'meaning of life', but in the end there really is no such thing as a real meaning I guess... well and than you die
Huh? Pretty deep isn't it
I have to try that one on chicks sometime, maybe it works
r.
... but deep down in their psyche every one is a completely solitary, isolated 'soul' which is just interacting with its material surroundings.
There is no such thing as real empathy or things like that, it is just an outer layer that helps us interacting with the surrounding (and is fooling ourselves to keep us sane to a certain level).
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said the sociopath...
Not calling names or being mean but wow that is in credibly cynical very sociopathic.
That aside... I never said I am trying to live that way, I am just as influenced by that outer social layer as anyone.
That philosophy is about the most depressing thing I've read in ages JK. Is that your own or a known theory?
Wether or not we can agree on 'others' being a concept that is real or something human that we made to comfort ourselves in our solitude, the fact is that life is short, we are born into it on our own, and we will leave it on our own, so to spend it alone too without giving or receiving pleasure from 'others' ( and no, I'm not just talking about sex! ) seems a shame to me. But I dunno, ask Robinson Crusoe or someone who's been in solitary confinement for a very long time. Although, I'm not sure they could give you a sane answer ;-0
Oh and just to make sure: I am not saying that there is no such thing as others (which is another theory btw). All I am saying is that it is impossible for a mind to really grasp what the 'other' (as represented by this material piece of flesh in front of him) is 'thinking'. Others can very well give you pleasures, but ultimatly to our psyche they are just like other material things that can give us pleasures.
But are they though? Really? In theory maybe, but in practise?
How about in the case of something like a young couple, madly deeply in love. Infatuated with each other, can't bear to be apart, just about to marry. One get's killed in a car crash. To the person left behind, that loss will hit them harder than anything they will ever experience in life, apart from perhaps the loss of a child. Perhaps even to the point of them not wishing to continue life themselves. I understand your theory, and don't get me wrong, it is interesting. But what's reality to us as human beings actually boils down to simply how we feel.
You are right of course in saying that 'actually boils down to simply how we feel' but this is true on serveral layers:
On a simple layer one could just say that and leave it as it is, which is fine to do, but somewhat escapist.
On a other layer it reflects what I am saying as feeling is about the most personal thing possible (an you don't need an understanding of 'others' for it).
So to come back to your example... is it not the (internal) feeling of (a somewhat abstract) affection that makes the 'left over' person suffer? So there is no real empathy required for it.. it is all 'internal'.
P.S.: I have started reading some stuff about this on wikipedia... it is somewhat related to the understanding of how autism occurs and what might be the reason for it. But if I find out more about it I will probably keep you updated
To know ourselves is a lifetimes work alone I think and it is the ultimate purpose
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I agree! I think though that knowing onesself before the final moment when the cable has snapped and all your co-workers are holding onto their hardhats and running for safety whilst screaming for you to do the same, but instead you stand with a funny look on your face and think, "I know myself now," is futile. By the time we think we have it pretty much in hand, we're someone else entirely. Until the moment in which we're squished, I mean. Some of us anyway. I can only speak for Some of Us, and We know Who We are. I have no idea what my life is all about anymore, and probably never have. My brain seems to run a few months behind itself at all times. I scream for it to keep up, but everyone on the bus turns to look at me with that forced "oh, a crazy person within clawing distance" nonchalance and I feel foolish, so I go back to picking the fuzz off my sweater and wishing I hadn't lost my keys.
There is life and death happening all around us. In us..
We are never alone.
so, food and sex and comfort,
so.... personal happyness
any pleasure is for the purpose of survival and reproduction
any pleasure is for the purpose of survival and reproduction
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I agree there. So, personal happiness for me too. When it's not present the others are not satisfactory at all.
I guess after all it is my theory, but somewhat influenced by other maybe well known theories.
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I don't think so. I don't know many who never discuessed this. We almost beat each other up once at the university due to this theory.
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All I am saying is that it is impossible for a mind to really grasp what the 'other' (as represented by this material piece of flesh in front of him) is 'thinking'
[/ QUOTE ] It's not wrong, but you can learn the ways of communication (based on behavior of visible matter only, it's pretty much like a chain of translation) of one person so well, that sometimes you can get so close to what she is thinking that it's almost scary.
Many doubted the existence of love or similar feelings, just because we can "explain" them now as an activity of certain brainareas. That's a dangerous sophism we deal with in criminal law quite often, since many of those feelings are parts of some elements of a crime of our laws.