So the The Getaway 3 and Vision Gran Turismo videos were pre-rendered ?Hah! Please go watch them, you'll understand.
Mark Rein is human like us, he has watched the videos 3 or 4 times.It's his opinion, it isn't a *fact*.
vermilion, I don't want words I want evidence.
No one here knows the truth, Columbo - if you want 'evidence', you'll need to do your sleuthing elsewhere. If you opt to hang aroung here regardless, please settle down.
Well I guess you're not interested in next-gen games as I am.Makes me wonder if you know anything at all about game development.Unless you're a moderator who can give a feel of the mood of these forums, or know what everyone on these boards know, I don't care about what you say.If you're satisfied with Mark Rein's comment, don't post and live with it.
It's got nothing to do with 'interest in next gen' hyper.
Were all foaming at the mouth over this stuff. All Im saying is take a reality check before you get sucked in by the Sony hype machine. Theyve done it to us before and theyre doing it now. Several characters on screen sporting heads with animated strands of procedural hair aint physically possible in realtime. Im sorry that that dissapoints you, but it's true. There's no point arguing about this. You'll see when the facts come out post E3. Sony/Guerilla games will eventually have to answer to the controversy that this is causing.
vermillion was asking you to calm down, please take his advice.
No-one wants a slagging match here. Hes right, we don't know if its pre-rendered or realtime. Leave it at that.
I worked alongside a lot of the original killzone marketing for sony, and have seen inside the "sony machine" many times, they use dirty tricks but not often does something get released unless it's meant to look the part.
The ps3 is a terrible beast, and with all this talk of new routines of BONES and so on, the hair could be somesort of mathematical hijinxs that none of us know about, like seeing some of the wonderfull HL2 videos for the first time.
I call this trailer a 'pre-visualization' trailer. It's meant to mimic the look of a real time game.
The model being 'slammed' to the back of the vehical can be caused by the animators taking a model already in the scene and slamming him to a new location in one frame. It happens. Why put another model in your scene when you can just use another model that's not in view. Then 'slam' him back when you need him in his original place.
hyperP: Now there is a possibility either way, that's currently under debate, but to say you're 100% sure then getting angry when disagreed with is pretty foolish.
I believe the video is pre-rendered. If you don't believe mistakes can't be made like that on a premade CG movie, then you should probably touch up on your knowledge.
There are some inconsistencies with the video. Look at the first vehicle that pulls up. Notice how there is no dust from when it stops. When the second one pulls up a cloud of dust builds up beneath the vehicle. Also when the guys are dyin, only half the time does dust fly up from the ground when they hit it. Stuff like that sways me in one direction, although I can't say for sure.
Part of me doesn't want to continue with this thread but Im quietly confident that we can dicuss this in a cordial fashion. But this is too funny not to share. The saga continues. In an interview Guerilla games *STILL* wont admit that this is a cg movie. They just totally skirt around the issue:
Something I touched on with Rick earlier about what bugs me about this SO much, is that folks are TOTALLY forgetting that the PS3 doesn't come with a free 3D engine! You still have to code one! Technically speaking Killzone was garbage. The engine was rubbish. And out of leftfield, Guerilla have an engine that is better than anything Carmack or Epic nor indeed *anyone* have ever made?! Haha!
Doug Perry from IGN hits the nail on the head: "But I don't think the developer is capable of that, especially based on the first game.""
They need to come clean pretty quick, cos otherwise this is gonna start to be mightily embarrasing for them.
Nuthin' more from me on the subject until the truth gets posted in a few days. It's a really lame stunt.
Good fucking god folks, sit down, have a drink, get some perspective!
It's not realtime, clearly it is not realtime. I work with the UE3 tech on a daily basis and I'm not aware of any genuine challenge to the supremacy of our tech 'right now'.
As good as our tech is, its still just 'smoke and mirrors' and any experienced tradesman can spot that, hence Daz being unable to let it go ( and who has served more years in the industry than him , that is commenting in this thread?).
Companies do these things, not out of genuine malice, but out of over optimistic surity that they will have these features later when they ship,
or because their back is against the wall and they need some short term attention and funding.
The first time I got slapped down with the realisation that some companies go to far was in the case of Wipeout and Into the Shadows.
Into the Shadows was a big competitor to Quake, it seemed, later it disappeared and it turned out there never was an Into the Shadows or cool new engine, there was just a rendered video and a lot of photoshop composited screenshots ( damn, I really wanted that game too!).
In the case of wipeout, they rendered screenshots of all the hi poly vehicles and tracks and said they were PS1 shots!
imo, that breaks the rules. When you advertise your game as having more refinement than you can possibly add by the end of the production schedule, you are forgetting something vital I think.
I didnt care too much though as when I got over my initial shock at Wipeout looking 'different' it was at least a great game. Perhaps KillZone will be too, but like Wipeout, I'm as sure as Daz is , that it will look 'different' than what it does at E3
I hope when ID shows off there new game they are wokring on it will look as good as the killzone cutscene ..but lets face it carmack is the only one capable of doing such a feet but only time will tell.
Gran Turismo looks so "poor" because it has shit loads of cars, i think i counted 14 or something on one shot, its most likely GT4 with high res textures. But knowing Polyphony they propably improve the graphics before release.
Like he says, "If this movie is pre-rendered, can somebody tell me why the hell those dropships or what's left of them are dissapearing?? "
Check out his screenshot showing spawning soldiers.Besides, it's been confirmed today on G4 by SCEe's director.He said it three times in a sentence, it's all in-game footage and it's how the game will look like.
Like he says, "If this movie is pre-rendered, can somebody tell me why the hell those dropships or what's left of them are dissapearing?? "
Check out his screenshot showing spawning soldiers.Besides, it's been confirmed today on G4 by SCEe's director.He said it three times in a sentence, it's all in-game footage and it's how the game will look like.
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You have yet to answer any of our questions about what we've seen yet you keep throwing out "bugs" in the demo.
Here's another scenario: It is in-game, but it's running at 2 FPS. All they would have to do is capture each frame slowly and add them all into a movie and call it "in-game". Also, even if in the rare case that it is real time, in game, it won't be like that in the real game, because in that sequence the processor isn't having to calculate AI, physics, or any of that junk (it's clearly scripted), and thus you would have to cut down on the graphics end to allow that kind of processing.
I still say BS..ROR and Daz proved it ... unless they have someone how bested the 2 best engine companies in the entire game industry ID and Epic they are fool of the so called shit... nuff said ..
Well , it was never a question if it was a prerendered sequence, as far as im concerned, and if what rick says is a quote then they have admited it allready. Just odd that they try to pull a stunt like this in the first place , maybe its for suits who dont know a render farm from a ZX81.
Naah, it's meant for the general public who doesn't know a render farm from a ZX81. The general public that believes the PS2 can render 66 million triangles a second. The general public that happily pays 60 Euros for the next version of Madden with changes that wouldn't even qualify as an expansion pack. The general public that won't buy the XBox 360 because they are waiting for the PS3 that supposedly renders Toy Story in realtime.
On Slashdot the term du jour for that is "astroturfing", i.e. employees of a company pretending to be fans of the product and making up favourable reviews on messageboards and other places.
Dont know if this has been mentioned but TDK has managed to up the storage capacity of the Blu-Ray DVD to 100 GIGS. This is almost twice the announced storage capacity and twice the capacity or HD-DVD.
They just upped the layer count to 4, I heard BRDs have a maximum of 8 (though for some reason BRDs that large aren't made, not sure about the specifics). Means this is still just half of what the format could be capable of...
Yeah, I doubt that's going to change anything, though. Games these days are rarely constrained by disk space. Sure, they could up the resolution on the videos but that still won't produce enough data to fill one of these babies. Actually creating the content that takes up that space is the much bigger hurdle.
Ya guess so, probably double the development cost as well to fill up that much space with content. But someone once said that we wouldnt need more than 256K of memory
Probably see a lot of crap coming out at first just because they can. Not to mention repackaging of older titles. Image Final Fantasy the Complete Edition. Probably still would not fill it.
But I still want it because its just so bigggggggggg
Mega hoooge DVDs will be cool and all, but this stuff is always relative. I remember getting a 1gb hard drive about ten years ago and couldn't begin to imagine ever filling that up. Now I have twice as much in just system ram. Five years down the road, I expect our games will have 50mb textures or some similarly unbelievable crap, and 200gb optical media will seem pretty average. It's so weird how that always happens. I remember when I first read about DVDs way back when, it seemed impossibly massive. Nowadays, I scowl when I have to get up and swap discs midway through a LotR film...
Replies
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615531p1.html
Mark Rein is human like us, he has watched the videos 3 or 4 times.It's his opinion, it isn't a *fact*.
vermilion, I don't want words I want evidence.
Were all foaming at the mouth over this stuff. All Im saying is take a reality check before you get sucked in by the Sony hype machine. Theyve done it to us before and theyre doing it now. Several characters on screen sporting heads with animated strands of procedural hair aint physically possible in realtime. Im sorry that that dissapoints you, but it's true. There's no point arguing about this. You'll see when the facts come out post E3. Sony/Guerilla games will eventually have to answer to the controversy that this is causing.
No-one wants a slagging match here. Hes right, we don't know if its pre-rendered or realtime. Leave it at that.
I worked alongside a lot of the original killzone marketing for sony, and have seen inside the "sony machine" many times, they use dirty tricks but not often does something get released unless it's meant to look the part.
The ps3 is a terrible beast, and with all this talk of new routines of BONES and so on, the hair could be somesort of mathematical hijinxs that none of us know about, like seeing some of the wonderfull HL2 videos for the first time.
I call this trailer a 'pre-visualization' trailer. It's meant to mimic the look of a real time game.
The model being 'slammed' to the back of the vehical can be caused by the animators taking a model already in the scene and slamming him to a new location in one frame. It happens. Why put another model in your scene when you can just use another model that's not in view. Then 'slam' him back when you need him in his original place.
I believe the video is pre-rendered. If you don't believe mistakes can't be made like that on a premade CG movie, then you should probably touch up on your knowledge.
There are some inconsistencies with the video. Look at the first vehicle that pulls up. Notice how there is no dust from when it stops. When the second one pulls up a cloud of dust builds up beneath the vehicle. Also when the guys are dyin, only half the time does dust fly up from the ground when they hit it. Stuff like that sways me in one direction, although I can't say for sure.
I'll believe anything any of the manufacturers say about their own products when I've got one hooked up to my TV and playing on them.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/616/616591p1.html
Something I touched on with Rick earlier about what bugs me about this SO much, is that folks are TOTALLY forgetting that the PS3 doesn't come with a free 3D engine! You still have to code one! Technically speaking Killzone was garbage. The engine was rubbish. And out of leftfield, Guerilla have an engine that is better than anything Carmack or Epic nor indeed *anyone* have ever made?! Haha!
Doug Perry from IGN hits the nail on the head: "But I don't think the developer is capable of that, especially based on the first game.""
They need to come clean pretty quick, cos otherwise this is gonna start to be mightily embarrasing for them.
Nuthin' more from me on the subject until the truth gets posted in a few days. It's a really lame stunt.
It's not realtime, clearly it is not realtime. I work with the UE3 tech on a daily basis and I'm not aware of any genuine challenge to the supremacy of our tech 'right now'.
As good as our tech is, its still just 'smoke and mirrors' and any experienced tradesman can spot that, hence Daz being unable to let it go ( and who has served more years in the industry than him , that is commenting in this thread?).
Companies do these things, not out of genuine malice, but out of over optimistic surity that they will have these features later when they ship,
or because their back is against the wall and they need some short term attention and funding.
The first time I got slapped down with the realisation that some companies go to far was in the case of Wipeout and Into the Shadows.
Into the Shadows was a big competitor to Quake, it seemed, later it disappeared and it turned out there never was an Into the Shadows or cool new engine, there was just a rendered video and a lot of photoshop composited screenshots ( damn, I really wanted that game too!).
In the case of wipeout, they rendered screenshots of all the hi poly vehicles and tracks and said they were PS1 shots!
imo, that breaks the rules. When you advertise your game as having more refinement than you can possibly add by the end of the production schedule, you are forgetting something vital I think.
I didnt care too much though as when I got over my initial shock at Wipeout looking 'different' it was at least a great game. Perhaps KillZone will be too, but like Wipeout, I'm as sure as Daz is , that it will look 'different' than what it does at E3
r.
http://boards.ign.com/Killzone/b6968/87680009/?13
Like he says, "If this movie is pre-rendered, can somebody tell me why the hell those dropships or what's left of them are dissapearing?? "
Check out his screenshot showing spawning soldiers.Besides, it's been confirmed today on G4 by SCEe's director.He said it three times in a sentence, it's all in-game footage and it's how the game will look like.
Have a look at this :
http://boards.ign.com/Killzone/b6968/87680009/?13
Like he says, "If this movie is pre-rendered, can somebody tell me why the hell those dropships or what's left of them are dissapearing?? "
Check out his screenshot showing spawning soldiers.Besides, it's been confirmed today on G4 by SCEe's director.He said it three times in a sentence, it's all in-game footage and it's how the game will look like.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have yet to answer any of our questions about what we've seen yet you keep throwing out "bugs" in the demo.
Here's another scenario: It is in-game, but it's running at 2 FPS. All they would have to do is capture each frame slowly and add them all into a movie and call it "in-game". Also, even if in the rare case that it is real time, in game, it won't be like that in the real game, because in that sequence the processor isn't having to calculate AI, physics, or any of that junk (it's clearly scripted), and thus you would have to cut down on the graphics end to allow that kind of processing.
Now, please answer my previous question.
s the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PlayStation 3?
Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.
r.
Jesus, they have now publically stated that it is a viualisation of how the game will look, and this is still being discussed?
[/ QUOTE ]
The only guy arguing for it has made six posts here in his life, all in this thread. I'm going to say he's either a troll or a Sony plant
Does anyone have the access speed specs?
If they come out with a DVD-RW format with a decent R&W access time you can kiss hard drives goodbye.
With that crazy kind of capacity, and progressive loading, can you imagine the games that will be coming out?
Cut scenes should be amazing and I love cut scenes
Probably see a lot of crap coming out at first just because they can. Not to mention repackaging of older titles. Image Final Fantasy the Complete Edition. Probably still would not fill it.
But I still want it because its just so bigggggggggg