Home Technical Talk
The BRAWL² Tournament Challenge has been announced!

It starts May 12, and ends Oct 17. Let's see what you got!

https://polycount.com/discussion/237047/the-brawl²-tournament

Normal Map Problem

Offline / Send Message
Pinned
Hi guys, newbie here.

So I want to create a 3D asset. I want to bake my highpoly mesh to lowpoly. After baking, I tried the baked result to lowpoly, but why does the result have edges like this in the lowpoly mesh?


(Highpoly mesh)

(Lowpoly Mesh)

Result

Replies

  • okidoki
    Offline / Send Message
    okidoki greentooth
    Not enough space (in blender, as this seems to be, called margin) between UV-islands ?? Just a guess.. you might give some more info..
    Also the low-poly seems to have orthogonal but not-connected faces.. and n-gons.. (even if that part seems to lokk okay).
  • Neox
    Offline / Send Message
    Neox grand marshal polycounter
    looks to me like you do not have UV splits where you have hard edges.
  • Noanoww
    okidoki said:
    Not enough space (in blender, as this seems to be, called margin) between UV-islands ?? Just a guess.. you might give some more info..
    Also the low-poly seems to have orthogonal but not-connected faces.. and n-gons.. (even if that part seems to lokk okay).
    I set my UV padding to 16px and I tried to increase the padding to 32px to bake in 4k resolution textures

  • Noanoww
    Neox said:
    looks to me like you do not have UV splits where you have hard edges.
    okay, so every hard edge has to have seams?
  • gnoop
    Offline / Send Message
    gnoop sublime tool
    Noanoww said:
    okay, so every hard edge has to have seams?
    Basically yes ,  because  its already a seam for a videocard  and every hard edge  is  a split edge doubling  vertexes  along it.   Yet  not every UV seam  needs  to be a hard edge    and you don't have to always do hard edges along beveled  edges.      Google  and try to  understand  face weighted  vertex/split normals  or ask chat GPT?  

    Shading  of any  polygonal surfaces is defined by vertex or split (in Blender terminology)  normals  ( pink vectors) first.   Normal map is just a cherry on top of it.   Once you figure out the concept of vertex normals  and how they create shading    the else become instantly obvious.   
  • Neox
  • pior
    Offline / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    @Noanoww
     "okay, so every hard edge has to have seams?"

    To understand it fully, simply observe the current normalmap of this area (and also post a screenshot of it here, for the sake of future people potentially viewing this thread) : 



    The cause of these artefacts will be pretty much self-evident once you look at it closely.
  • Noanoww
    pior said:
    @Noanoww
     "okay, so every hard edge has to have seams?"

    To understand it fully, simply observe the current normalmap of this area (and also post a screenshot of it here, for the sake of future people potentially viewing this thread) : 



    The cause of these artefacts will be pretty much self-evident once you look at it closely.
    This is the UVs

  • Neox
    Offline / Send Message
    Neox grand marshal polycounter
    these are the UV seams maybe, doesnt say much about the actual UVs. but yeah one can certainly see, you dont have seams where the hard edges are

    the general rule of thumb is, every hard edge is a UV seam, but not every UV seam is a hard edge.
  • pior
    Offline / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    @Noanoww

    Hi,
    I am suggesting you to post a *screenshot of the normalmap* corresponding to this area. Once you do so and take the time to observe it closely, you'll understand your issue.

    Also, @gnoop , I hate to be a bit of an ass but "
    Google and try to understand face weighted vertex/split normals or ask chat GPT?" or "something something videocard" isn't contributing anything to help the OP understand the issue. If anything this is just adding even more misinformation/slop to a topic that has been hard to grasp for artists for years.
  • Celosia
    Offline / Send Message
    Celosia polygon
    Noanoww said:
    This is the UVs
    Select the object then look for the "UV Editing" workspace tab at the top. Press "A" to select all geometry. We want to see the UVs that'll appear on the left.

    In case there's no image under the UV you can select it from the header in the UV Editor or click on it from a Shader Editor and it'll appear automatically, but in this case having the normal map itself visible isn't necessary to see how the object was unwrapped; you'll see it highlighted as geometry on the left if you selected the vertices (or use UV Sync Selection).
  • gnoop
    Offline / Send Message
    gnoop sublime tool
     isn't contributing anything to help the OP understand the issue. 
    Yeah, Google maybe is not very specific and helpful advice   but chat GPT  sure is.  I didn't ask it to explain me vertex based shading personally   but  did for a lot of  real time shader  and pixel  manipulating techniques   and it have been best teacher  and best focused and compacted  info   no  nvidua published  GPU gems ever been for me .

  • poopipe
    Offline / Send Message
    poopipe grand marshal polycounter
    the robot is only going to recycle the misinformation
    this is a subject that cannot be googled because at least half the people who write with 'authority' on the subject are wrong. 

    The one good source of information I've found  - and the only one I hand over to artists who encounter this - is the sticky thread about wavy normal maps on this very forum.

  • HAWK12HT
    Offline / Send Message
    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 13
    This will help you understand the issue and fix it.

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/rlGqrE
  • pior
    Offline / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Well, while breakdowns and explanations about wavy bakes are indeed useful, the artefacts in the work of the OP aren't caused by that. They are more than likely caused by the baked pixels of the normalmap instantly jumping from one value to another across the (hard) edge but without UV room to breathe since the UVs have been left continuous instead of being split off. Hence the texture filtering causing improper values to show up on both sides. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding it ; either way, showing the map and the UVs overlaid on top as suggested by Celosia would help.

    If anything this one case of hard edge artefacts is great for educational purposes as it is quite clear and self-contained. Looking forward to the OP solving it and this thread perhaps becoming a useful learning resource.
Sign In or Register to comment.