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Insomniac Spiderman Retopo (Help)

5rettski
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5rettski triangle
My question is very confusing, so I will do my best to word it. This is the Spider-Man model from Insomniac Games Marvel Spider-Man 2. The only model that is from Spider-Man 1 is the photo taken in Maya (blue wireframe). During the 2018 ZBrush Summit, the modeler for Spider-Man at the time (Leroy Chen) said that he cut the logo and piping directly into the model, as you can see in the photo. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hXiCnJjV7M 19:21) He wasn't the same modeler for SM2, but I am sure they used the same method, which is what I can't figure out. In the photo that I drew on, the orange lines are the spider logo and the blue lines are the edge-flow of the muscles, you can clearly see that it was cut on, rather being built around retopo-wise.

My question is how? More specifically, I'm talking about how the base mesh topology was kept while still having the pieces connected geometrically WITH the base mesh topology still on those parts. Is it possible that multi-cut was used to simply cut the pieces and then snapped to the faces of the high poly? Leroy Chen saying "cut in details" makes me think the Multi-Cut tool, but someone told me "you don't cut in something like that" which I find to be BS tbh. I'll even throw one more image in here with the blue being the base mesh and the orange being the "cut".

All help is appreciated .







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  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    "you don't cut in something like that"

    Why not ? Just cut in manually along a reference for the logo (for instance by texturing it temporarily on the model), or project the outline with whatever dedicated tool is available ; then bevel/extrude to add the needed pipe detail. All that while also making the topology land nicely (avoiding any tiny triangles). It's actually really qute simple, just a bit tedious but that's part of the job.
  • 5rettski
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    5rettski triangle
    That is exactly what I said, so it would just be cutting in with multi-cut and cleaning up topo?
  • Neox
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    Neox grand marshal polycounter
    yeah. i mean, they might have a blockout/sculpt they bake down into a simpler version that gets tested with just textures, then do the cuts based on those
  • Dustin
    We maintain a Spidey template mesh that we use to start all of the suits with. The same way you would have universal topology/UVs for many other character types in a project. We use that as a starting point for both high and low models. For high models, we usually use subdivision modeling to add pieces that add relief to the suit, such as spider emblems, gauntlets, etc. For low models, we start again with the template mesh and, referencing the high model, we make arbitrary cuts and snap to surface. This usually give us a springboard to get UVs stood up quickly as well, with a little cleanup after all cuts are in. Web motifs and other smaller details are done in Substance Designer and Painter.

    Hope this helps!
  • 5rettski
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    5rettski triangle
    Dustin said:
    We maintain a Spidey template mesh that we use to start all of the suits with. The same way you would have universal topology/UVs for many other character types in a project. We use that as a starting point for both high and low models. For high models, we usually use subdivision modeling to add pieces that add relief to the suit, such as spider emblems, gauntlets, etc. For low models, we start again with the template mesh and, referencing the high model, we make arbitrary cuts and snap to surface. This usually give us a springboard to get UVs stood up quickly as well, with a little cleanup after all cuts are in. Web motifs and other smaller details are done in Substance Designer and Painter.

    Hope this helps!
    Thank you so much! By cuts I'm guessing you mean multi-cut, yeah?

    The work of the Spider-Man games have been a great inspiration for me as a 3D Artist, so really, thank you.

    Another question not as related to the retopo process. How were you able to create the tendrils for the symbiote stuff? Like the suit transformation for example:

    rMaya - Symbiote going on with some external mesh
    rMaya - External mesh
    rMaya - Close up of external mesh coming off

    I see that there is some sort of external mesh that goes over to reveal the symbiote suit, but I don't understand how to make that for a game, let alone make it in a software. To me it looks like some kind of curve, I don't know if it was done by nodes or something else. If you would be able to share some info on this, I would be over the moon. I have always wondered how to do this.
  • Dustin
    Yep multi-cut tool in Maya. Tentacles in gameplay were a custom curve-based tool our animators could keyframe. Cinematic tentacles were mostly done in Houdini and brought into the engine as alembic.
  • 5rettski
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    5rettski triangle
    Dustin said:
    Yep multi-cut tool in Maya. Tentacles in gameplay were a custom curve-based tool our animators could keyframe. Cinematic tentacles were mostly done in Houdini and brought into the engine as alembic.
    Ahhh. Wait so, what about the symbiote rage burst transformation. Was that the same one in game as is the cinematic?

    And the custom curve, was that something done in Maya or Houdini or in engine? Also, in theory would it be possible to make it as a texture for optimization purpose?
  • 5rettski
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    5rettski triangle
    Alright, I just watched a video in slo-mo and I can say it is not the same animation. https://gyazo.com/da0c846cd88d8c0e16ac04a31f60637a

    It looks like it has a burst of tendrils, and then a silhouette of the surge suit appears, and then it slowly disappears to the actual suit. Is that correct?
  • Neox
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    Neox grand marshal polycounter
    I know you want to know it all.

    But maybe take the info you already have from your various threads and put those into something you finish before you go further down the rabbit hole?
    Solve one thing at a time, finish your Kratos maybe?
  • 5rettski
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    5rettski triangle
    Neox said:
    I know you want to know it all.

    But maybe take the info you already have from your various threads and put those into something you finish before you go further down the rabbit hole?
    Solve one thing at a time, finish your Kratos maybe?
    This is something I have been trying to figure out ever since the gameplay reveal came out. Now that someone who actually worked on the game replied to my thread, I’m going to ask my questions. The Kratos thing can wait.

    Sorry if it seemed like I was going at you, the Kratos thing just isn't my priority atm :)
  • Neox
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    Neox grand marshal polycounter
    Who do you think asked Dustin to come around to answer your question? :)

    I know its exciting and there is so much one could do and learn and experience and all. But calm down, one step at a time.. all of this is mighty complex and there is soooooo much one can learn, at any given time. I'd suggest you to finish what you started and go from there
  • 5rettski
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    5rettski triangle
    Neox said:
    Who do you think asked Dustin to come around to answer your question? :)
    You are a saint.
    I know its exciting and there is so much one could do and learn and experience and all. But calm down, one step at a time.. all of this is mighty complex and there is soooooo much one can learn, at any given time. I'd suggest you to finish what you started and go from there
    I know I know. I'm taking a pause on the Kratos though. I have some things on my check list, and the symbiote thing is one of them.
  • Neox
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    Neox grand marshal polycounter
    I am not

    But

    It doesn't matter what thing, just finish it. And yeah there is always gonna be a thing you do not know.... Yet :)
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