Well, it does seem like a case of one step forward, two
steps back, But kudos to you for putting in the work and trying to incorporate
feedback. That’s half the battle right there! I think it will be a matter of
practice and mileage i.e. doing lots of studies until you get to a point where
you’ve trained your eye enough to be able to see your references accurately and
understand all these abstract concepts mentioned in this thread, and all while being
able to execute/synthesize those ideas with sculpting.
All that is to say (and echoing Stray and Muzzoid’s
comments): go back and study those critiques and apply them in earnest,
eventually you will get two steps forward and just one back.
To be honest, I'm feeling a bit directionless at the moment. I've not had any further feedback anywhere and I'm not sure if where I'm at is now in a good place, if something else needs adjusting, this needs removing, that needs adding etc. :-\
This type of “on-demand” feedback is going to be tricky in a
forum format. But I would think you would be getting some real-time communication/feedback
from your mentorship, right???
You are fine! You didn't lash out, you just stated how something made you feel which is actually good! You've taken every bit of feedback well.
This thing is a long game, anyone who has been doing this for longer than a decade knows that preserving your mental health is the number one priority here. Art can be a really rough journey emotionally, I've worked with friends who broke down in tears because they though they couldn't create any more, and they lost sight of the reason why we are doing any of this.
I mean I'm the guy who had the bright idea of the "honest feedback thread"
. I thought i was able to take the most honest feedback, but in truth
it actually really hurt my ego and made me realize a lot of things. (phew this was 11 years ago )
Also I can expand on any of these ideas at all if you want to know. I've been slowly working on writing a book based on the meta game of art, so it's something I'm deeply passionate about.
Thank you. And it is bloody hard. Like I just said to someone else on Discord - the imposter syndrome is god-awful and it's worse when you're over-sensitive and an overthinker. And yet, when I've worked on an exercise for a few hours, and it's going nowhere and it looks and feels awful, imposter syndrome kicks in, and yet the easiest thing is to just scrap it, start over, and the next iteration usually comes out better and quicker. I guess I also put too much pressure on myself to strive for perfection and to reach the end goal. Especially the end goal of getting a job in the industry, which is already an incredibly difficult job. I'm constantly worrying about if/when I'll ever be good enough to land that first job role. In some respects, my ex girlfriend breaking up with me was a blessing in disguise due to the extra pressure she was putting on me to get that first job just so we could be living together.
Also, I'd be interested in reading that book when it comes out! My mentor also mentioned another book someone else is working on by Delaney...? Called Violent Triangles. https://www.patreon.com/darkling Just a shame she left Twitter as she posted a lot of insightful stuff apparently.sacboi said:
"This is a lot to digest. There really should be some online courses that
cover secondary forms; there are so many considerations and things to
be aware of, it could very easily be its own topic..."
Actually, Scott Eaton one of the founding artists behind digital sculpture had authored many of the fundamental concepts/principles you're currently grappling with for example - Anatomy for Artists I might also add peer review offered thus far is quite exceptional and as a point of reference I'd say your journey has imo gotten off to a great start, so keep at it. One other thing I'll mention is that mental health issues prevail throughout the creative sphere irrespective of medium, in my mind perhaps endeavoring upon a targeted artistic pursuit one will initially as an untutored novice resort or attempt to define their self worth via ones creative ability however without going into further depth beyond the scope of this thread, in terms of agreement totally side with @Muzzoid response above.
Thank you. And thanks for the encouragement. I rememeber seeing/saving a link to Scott Eaton's online course once. I would like to try and improve on my real life sketching abilities. Though those courses are quite pricey. Hopefully one day soon I'll be able to save up enough and take the plunge.
Well, it does seem like a case of one step forward, two
steps back, But kudos to you for putting in the work and trying to incorporate
feedback. That’s half the battle right there! I think it will be a matter of
practice and mileage i.e. doing lots of studies until you get to a point where
you’ve trained your eye enough to be able to see your references accurately and
understand all these abstract concepts mentioned in this thread, and all while being
able to execute/synthesize those ideas with sculpting.
All that is to say (and echoing Stray and Muzzoid’s
comments): go back and study those critiques and apply them in earnest,
eventually you will get two steps forward and just one back.
To be honest, I'm feeling a bit directionless at the moment. I've not had any further feedback anywhere and I'm not sure if where I'm at is now in a good place, if something else needs adjusting, this needs removing, that needs adding etc. :-\
This type of “on-demand” feedback is going to be tricky in a
forum format. But I would think you would be getting some real-time communication/feedback
from your mentorship, right???
That's how it feels for me with many facets of life it seems - one step forward, two steps back. ^^; But thanks. To be honest, my mentor said the exact same thing as you have. That I need to increase my mileage and do studies etc. That's why I started doing a torso sculpt from a 3D scan.
The mentorship did end, sadly. Though I still keep in contact with them via Discord. But sadly they're not able to provide real-time feedback. During the mentorship, the feedback was given via weekly video reviews. And occasionally Discord chats when they were able to.
Progress update. I've been working more on the upper portion of the back, although there's not a lot I can see in the references I have. I'm now focusing a bit more on the middle again and the shapes I can see in the Eternal version on the lats.
Good! Looking back, do you think you can see what we were pointing out now?
Yeah, I believe so. And it makes sense how and why my mentor approaches it the way he does - sculpting onto the surface and into it where the change in contours are and shading/highlights.
Yeah, so, I hope this means I've 'levelled up'...? I certainly feel as though my understanding and confidence has increased by a lot. I no longer feel unsure or stuck. It's really just a case of doing it now. I'll still post updates on my progress with the Hell Knight. And even the torso study as well.
I do have a question actually. I did ask my mentor and they said it depends on the asset. But for something like this creature, something that's organic, would it be best to keep a lot of the messy brush strokes to aid the tertiary details? I aim to do those in Substance Painter. Or should I clean/smooth it down prior to retopping/baking?
I’m not sure if that would matter much, but my personal
preference would be to have it cleaned up if I was going save tertiary details
for the texture/substance phase. But I can be a little ocd about that kind of
thing if I’m going to go out of my way to compartmentalize the process like
that.
I’d be inclined to do the tertiary details in the high poly
phase anyway...but again, just personal preference.
I do have a question actually. I did ask my mentor and they said it depends on the asset. But for something like this creature, something that's organic, would it be best to keep a lot of the messy brush strokes to aid the tertiary details? I aim to do those in Substance Painter. Or should I clean/smooth it down prior to retopping/baking?
Yep personal preference.
Something like dishonored or arcane, they both have makers marks visible, overwatch does not. Ect.
I’m not sure if that would matter much, but my personal
preference would be to have it cleaned up if I was going save tertiary details
for the texture/substance phase. But I can be a little ocd about that kind of
thing if I’m going to go out of my way to compartmentalize the process like
that.
I’d be inclined to do the tertiary details in the high poly
phase anyway...but again, just personal preference.
Okay. Ordinarily, I was going to do it within ZBrush after the secondary forms, but my mentor recommended SP due to having more control with the scaling of alphas etc. Plus, I think because it would be faster to work on/with due to it being a low poly model. I think the original artist - Jason Martin - said he uses SP for the tertiary, too.
I do have a question actually. I did ask my mentor and they said it depends on the asset. But for something like this creature, something that's organic, would it be best to keep a lot of the messy brush strokes to aid the tertiary details? I aim to do those in Substance Painter. Or should I clean/smooth it down prior to retopping/baking?
Yep personal preference.
Something like dishonored or arcane, they both have makers marks visible, overwatch does not. Ect.
Huh. Interesting. I didn't realise. I'll have to see if I can get ahold of a model rip and take a closer look. I was just thinking the other day of creating a character with the Dishonored style.
Now that I'm looking at one, I do remember the painterly-like brush strokes, but just figured those were just that - paint/brush strokes. But cranking the Normal map up a bit it does appear that a lot of those strokes are present.
Replies
Well, it does seem like a case of one step forward, two steps back, But kudos to you for putting in the work and trying to incorporate feedback. That’s half the battle right there! I think it will be a matter of practice and mileage i.e. doing lots of studies until you get to a point where you’ve trained your eye enough to be able to see your references accurately and understand all these abstract concepts mentioned in this thread, and all while being able to execute/synthesize those ideas with sculpting.
All that is to say (and echoing Stray and Muzzoid’s comments): go back and study those critiques and apply them in earnest, eventually you will get two steps forward and just one back.
This type of “on-demand” feedback is going to be tricky in a forum format. But I would think you would be getting some real-time communication/feedback from your mentorship, right???
I guess I also put too much pressure on myself to strive for perfection and to reach the end goal. Especially the end goal of getting a job in the industry, which is already an incredibly difficult job. I'm constantly worrying about if/when I'll ever be good enough to land that first job role. In some respects, my ex girlfriend breaking up with me was a blessing in disguise due to the extra pressure she was putting on me to get that first job just so we could be living together.
Also, I'd be interested in reading that book when it comes out! My mentor also mentioned another book someone else is working on by Delaney...? Called Violent Triangles. https://www.patreon.com/darkling Just a shame she left Twitter as she posted a lot of insightful stuff apparently.sacboi said: Thank you. And thanks for the encouragement.
The mentorship did end, sadly. Though I still keep in contact with them via Discord. But sadly they're not able to provide real-time feedback. During the mentorship, the feedback was given via weekly video reviews. And occasionally Discord chats when they were able to.
I'd go back and revisit the shoulder blades and upper back muscles, that's where the most uniform creasing is.
I’m not sure if that would matter much, but my personal preference would be to have it cleaned up if I was going save tertiary details for the texture/substance phase. But I can be a little ocd about that kind of thing if I’m going to go out of my way to compartmentalize the process like that.
I’d be inclined to do the tertiary details in the high poly phase anyway...but again, just personal preference.
Yep personal preference.
Something like dishonored or arcane, they both have makers marks visible, overwatch does not. Ect.