In desparate need of words of encouragement and advice

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Hi

I'm really not sure how this thread is going to pan out. I suspect it'll probably just die after a couple of posts or something. But I really need some words of encouragement. :-\ I don't feel like I get much these days and certainly not from family. I struggle with mental health issues - depression, anxiety, and was even diagnosed with autism back in 2017 (though I consider it to be Asperger's in my case). I've even recently had to get counselling, though it remains to be seen how useful that is based on the first session. Combined with that, I have sleeping problems, which makes it an issue when working on stuff through the day as I'm always drowsy and tired. In many cases, I have to take naps before I can focus and work on anything.
One of the biggest worries I have is breaking into the games industry. Compared to my peers, who are much younger, I'm now 36 and feel like life is rapidly passing by. I've been stuck in dead-end retail jobs most of my life, which were just hell for me, and since the last one where I was made redundant, I'm currently unemployed. And I have no desire to go back into it. It took me until the age of 30 to discover and get into game art/development as a potential career option. I went back to college and then onto university. I have a degree in Games Art and I'm at the end of a Masters course in 3D Computer Games Design. My fear is how long it'll take afterwards to get into the industry as I'll need to continue to polish my skills and build a solid portfolio. Combined with the fact that it's very hard to get into and competitive.
Things have been rough lately with my mental health and I often feel quite dispondent, which affects motivation on getting anything done, particularly projects and the like. In my own time, I would like to learn some environment and weapon art through online courses, but I'm not sure how long that'll take. I'm interested in learning a mixture of game art roles, not just exclusively character art, which is what I'm doing, but I know my speed at completing projects, for some of the reasons mentioned above, is quite slow. This is an issue I really need to work on fixing. The worry of ever making it constantly naws away at me daily. It also doesn't help that other peers much younger than me have broken into the industry straight after graduation. Admittedly, some are very basic and lower tier roles, such as QA, or just a general 3D artist rather than what they originally studied, but they've still managed to get their foot in the door.
The other concern I have is being able to move out and live independently. Things aren't rosy at home, which doesn't help matters, and what with the cost of living crisis in the UK as well, it makes it next to impossible to ever move out until I land a job at a studio and relocate. Or work remotely.

So yeah... Apologies for the sob story, but I really need some words of encouragement and advice. I need some renewed motivation. And if this isn't the best place for this, I'd appreciate it if some could point me to a better forum related to game art/dev.

Thanks

Alex_J · Jun 2023

don't know what to suggest to you but I think computer work is dreadful for mental health. given a person with perfect mental health and put them in job behind a computer 8 hours a day, it is a challenge to remain healthy.

Somebody already struggling? I'd consider that gas on a fire.

i'd try to find something outdoors. maybe could look for jobs with park service or something like that.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Alex_J said:

don't know what to suggest to you but I think computer work is dreadful for mental health. given a person with perfect mental health and put them in job behind a computer 8 hours a day, it is a challenge to remain healthy.

Somebody already struggling? I'd consider that gas on a fire.

i'd try to find something outdoors. maybe could look for jobs with park service or something like that.

Oh don't get me wrong - I love what I'm doing. It combines everything I love - video games, using computers, and making stuff. I enjoy the process, using different software, learning how to use software and various tricks to improve the workflows etc.

I even sampled what it was like in a studio back in 2019 - I did a 2 week placement at Codemasters as an audio intern for F1 2019 and loved it. Granted, that was mainly audio QA for a racing game, which was a bit dull, but the whole experience, working ethics and atmosphere were so refreshing! It sealed the deal that working in a studio was what I wanted to do. And then I went back to my dead-end retail job...

Using computers for long periods of time is something I'm used to anyway. It's just at the moment, with my current circumstances, I feel trapped. I have a goal I want to achieve - breaking into the industry - but it's that uncertainty of if/when I'll ever make it. :-\

And working outdoors...? Ew. XD I've never been one for the outside, or working outside for that matter.

killnpc · Jun 2023

Hey Dusty. For anyone, you know, getting overwhelmed and needing to talk out some of their worries, continue to hang tough, talk to friends, and work toward a solution. Consider paying a professional you can open up to without stressing over how it may impact important relationships in your life that aren't necessarily equipped for or prepared to help.
Take care!

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

killnpc said:

Hey Dusty. For anyone, you know, getting overwhelmed and needing to talk out some of their worries, continue to hang tough, talk to friends, and work toward a solution. Consider paying a professional you can open up to without stressing over how it may impact important relationships in your life that aren't necessarily equipped for or prepared to help.
Take care!

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Unfortunately, having someone important I can reach out to has proven more and more difficult as I've gotten older. Particularly friends. Relationships are one of those things I struggle with immensely. :-\ All the friends I had I've either fallen out with, have turned out to be assholes and stopped talking to me, or they've just moved on with their lives - they've met someone, gotten married, had kids, work full-time... So I no longer have anyone I can rely on to reach out to. The one person I did have from my previous job has now become unreliable. I had a mentor through uni who did help, but sadly that service came to an end. As I say, I've started counselling. but based on the first session, the guy only repeated what I said and wrote it down. No words of encouragement or suggestions were made. Only time will tell if it gets better...

In a way, I kinda regret posting this thread now.

It doesn't seem like the right place for it, but at the same time - my confidence and motivation to continue practising, making stuff and continuing on is being affected, and it literally feels like it's all I have to look forward to and to keep me going. I would prefer to see a professional, though I doubt I'd be able to afford it privately. The biggest problem though is that services like that are very scarce and underfunded around here.

Alex_J · Jun 2023

you have plenty of questions asked here but have you ever helped anybody else?

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Alex_J said:

you have plenty of questions asked here but have you ever helped anybody else?

Well, um, no.

But then, I can't say I'm ever in the habit of hovering around forums on the look out for new threads to help out. ^^; I tend to use them as a source whilst working on stuff for when I get really stuck and confused with something.

To aid in my current learning.

Alex_J · Jun 2023

people learn to avoid those who take but don't give. everybody has their own problems and usually those who mention mental illness and/or autism without being asked are bullshitters IME.

the only way you'll get any help in life is if you help others. there is zero point trying anything else, it won't work. go pay an expensive therapist they'll use 10,000 words to say the same thing. but its still on you to make any efforts.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Wow. I came here to get words of encouragement when I was feeling incredibly low and I've essentially been insulted AND called a liar. Thanks for making me feel twice as shitty about myself. >:(

Someone can close this thread then; I no longer want to continue posting in it.

Alex_J · Jun 2023

reddit is the place where people whine about their non-issues, cheapening actual mental illness and insulting people who actually suffer from it, in exchange for nothing words so they can feel good for what? 10 minutes?

this is a place where people are doing work and making progress. more people besides me would probably chime in if they'd seen you trying to help sometimes. people help helpers. they ignore leeches. its simple. literally all you have to do is take some time to help others and you'd be 1000x closer to getting a job because you might have made some friends.

Eric Chadwick · Jun 2023

I don’t agree with Alex_J’s assessment, and I think it’s in poor taste frankly.

DustyShinigami, I know from experience it can be really tough when I’m unemployed and actively looking for work, while getting no responses, or only rejections. So I feel you.

There’s not much I can offer as advice unfortunately, other than to take a break and get some nature time. That’s what helps me cope when I’m down. Whether in the woods, or desert, or mountains, or out on the water. Some time spent exercising in the wild has always helped me a ton. Both the exertion, and the calming effect of nature.

I hope this helps you get through this trying time. And if you want to chat, dm me, I’m always willing to talk!

Benjammin · Jun 2023

@Alex_J
Jeez man, your point is valid, but maybe find a way to express it with tact and respect?

@DustyShinigami
I have been in more or less the exact same shoes. The good news is you CAN get into the industry at your age - I did it

Make some friends, however you can. Hobby groups, ASD support groups, volunteer work. Its not easy for anyone, 10x harder for those on the spectrum, but essential for every human. Maybe try to mend bridges and reconnect with old friends. If you can't do it in person, do it online.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Eric Chadwick said:

I don’t agree with Alex_J’s assessment, and I think it’s in poor taste frankly.

DustyShinigami, I know from experience it can be really tough when I’m unemployed and actively looking for work, while getting no responses, or only rejections. So I feel you.

There’s not much I can offer as advice unfortunately, other than to take a break and get some nature time. That’s what helps me cope when I’m down. Whether in the woods, or desert, or mountains, or out on the water. Some time spent exercising in the wild has always helped me a ton. Both the exertion, and the calming effect of nature.

I hope this helps you get through this trying time. And if you want to chat, dm me, I’m always willing to talk!

Thanks, Eric. That means a lot. And I'm glad someone's in my corner regarding Alex's assessment. But you're right - I do need to take a break. I've been feeling pretty burnt out and to be honest I've not had a holiday since 2015! Thanks for the offer about DM'ing. I may do that sometime to ask for advice.

I take it you've had a couple of roles in the industry?

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Benjammin said:
@DustyShinigami
I have been in more or less the exact same shoes. The good news is you CAN get into the industry at your age - I did it
Make some friends, however you can. Hobby groups, ASD support groups, volunteer work. Its not easy for anyone, 10x harder for those on the spectrum, but essential for every human. Maybe try to mend bridges and reconnect with old friends. If you can't do it in person, do it online.

Thanks. I know age shouldn't be a problem, it's just getting a solid portfolio built up and how long that could potentially take.

I mean, I have kinda made a couple of new friends through uni, though one ended up just using me and has stopped talking to me, but many will eventually lose touch once it's over. I have joined their Discord server, which is centred around character art, and they have a voice/work channel where some get together. Though when I have sometimes joined, they've been engrossed in a gaming session online and felt a bit like a spare part. Also, I did manage to mend bridges with at least one of those friends.

Eric Chadwick · Jun 2023

I take it you've had a couple of roles in the industry?

Yeah, you could say I’ve been around the block a couple times :P Now working outside of games.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Oh awesome. I'll definitely have to pick your brains from time to time, such as asking for advice when applying for job roles etc.

I've only applied for one so far, which was more of a 6 month work placement. Suffice to say, I didn't feel my portfolio was ready as it was and I wasn't successful.

EDIT: Noticed on your portfolio you worked on the Blade Runner adventure game. I've still yet to play it, but I think it's on my GOG wishlist. I'm a fan of the classic point n' clicks. I understand it got a remaster recently, but didn't get a very good reception.

Alex_J · Jun 2023

You guys are right. I apologize @DustyShinigami

I'll rephrase like this:

Somewhere there is a team that is making a game that needs cool models like this:

and somewhere (maybe here) there is some artist who wants to make stuff like this and doesn't know as much as Dusty and could use some advice. It doesn't even matter that much if dusty gives them some advice that's slightly wrong or whatever, so long as they they know there is somebody out there in their corner, it's going to help them a lot in getting over their own struggles.

So I feel that if dusty makes it their mission to help others, they'll gain a few things:

1. they'll develop relationships which is the only thing that can solve depression

2. they'll let a tiny corner of the world know that they are a team player which is just as important as skillz

3. some time that might have otherwise been spent feeling like shit will instead be spent knowing that one is a helpful member of a community.

same thing goes for any sort of relationship. if you want your dog to be happy so that he's enjoyable to be around, you have to feed him. water the plants. the friends who got married and had children and don't hang out anymore - offer to watch the kids for a weekend night or something so they can go on a date.

you will feel much better about everything if you do stuff like this and people will want to help you in return. just find any way possible that you can help others and your own issues will fade away in time.

neilberard · Jun 2023

I would say take care of the mental health stuff first and don't worry about breaking into the industry right away. The fact that you are seeking counseling is good. Sleeping issues sounds like that stems from depression. Try to keep a regular sleep schedule. Exercise and getting outside helps. Also seeing people, there are groups out there- board game meetups, life drawing and painting, game industry meetups etc. If you are looking to break into the industry as quickly as possible, stay away from areas that are over saturated with candidates. IE: Character Art and 3d generalists or trying to do everything. Find an area in demand and focus on that.

ModBlue · Jun 2023

neilberard said:

If you are looking to break into the industry as quickly as possible, stay away from areas that are over saturated with candidates. IE: Character Art and 3d generalists or trying to do everything. Find an area in demand and focus on that.

I disagree with this bit. Getting in quickly isn't the result of going for what you think will be less saturated or more needed. What's going to get you in quickly is getting good at something an employer wants (and character art is one of those things in demand so not sure why your saying it isn't) while employing a job hunting strategy that cuts down on the amount of competition you face.

If for example you run from character art because you think its too over saturated and run to environments because it looks like its less saturated....your gonna be in for a rude awakening. You'll have to compete with a bunch of other people who ran to environment art for the same reason AND actual experienced environment guys who got into the field because its what they loved doing. That just made your odds worse and the thing is its gonna be like this no matter what 3D position you run to.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Alex_J said:

You guys are right. I apologize @DustyShinigami

I'll rephrase like this:
Somewhere there is a team that is making a game that needs cool models like this:

and somewhere (maybe here) there is some artist who wants to make stuff like this and doesn't know as much as Dusty and could use some advice. It doesn't even matter that much if dusty gives them some advice that's slightly wrong or whatever, so long as they they know there is somebody out there in their corner, it's going to help them a lot in getting over their own struggles.

So I feel that if dusty makes it their mission to help others, they'll gain a few things:
1. they'll develop relationships which is the only thing that can solve depression
2. they'll let a tiny corner of the world know that they are a team player which is just as important as skillz
3. some time that might have otherwise been spent feeling like shit will instead be spent knowing that one is a helpful member of a community.

same thing goes for any sort of relationship. if you want your dog to be happy so that he's enjoyable to be around, you have to feed him. water the plants. the friends who got married and had children and don't hang out anymore - offer to watch the kids for a weekend night or something so they can go on a date.

you will feel much better about everything if you do stuff like this and people will want to help you in return. just find any way possible that you can help others and your own issues will fade away in time.

No worries. ^^ And thank you. That's actually one of the projects I'm still working on at the moment.

But yeah, I see what you're saying. Okay, I will try and help out as and when I can. It'll mainly be with characters though as that's what I've been studying. As well as knowing how to use certain software like Fusion.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

neilberard said:

I would say take care of the mental health stuff first and don't worry about breaking into the industry right away. The fact that you are seeking counseling is good. Sleeping issues sounds like that stems from depression. Try to keep a regular sleep schedule. Exercise and getting outside helps. Also seeing people, there are groups out there- board game meetups, life drawing and painting, game industry meetups etc. If you are looking to break into the industry as quickly as possible, stay away from areas that are over saturated with candidates. IE: Character Art and 3d generalists or trying to do everything. Find an area in demand and focus on that.

Yeah. Well, the fact I haven't had a holiday in 8 years now is a sign I need to switch off and try to heal a bit. So I'm currently looking into the possibility of joining my family on their cruise sometime in October. I'm still not sure if cruises are going to be my thing, but just having a holiday and experiencing it, not to mention seeing other countries like Venice, should work wonders.

I've tried looking into meet-ups around my town before, but sadly, there isn't really anything here. Not that appeals anyway. They tend to be miles away in cities. Breaking into the industry quickly would be ideal as I'm out of a job and really want to get into something I genuinely want to do. But obviously, I know it's going to take time as I build up a portfolio. Trouble is, I have studied a specific field now - characters.

Eventually, I would like to study in my own time (maybe if/when I go on this cruise and I'm chilling in the cabin or something) environments and weapon art. Just to expand my horizons in other fields. Though I may still not be as proficient in them as characters.

sacboi · Jun 2023

neilberard said:

I would say take care of the mental health stuff first and don't worry about breaking into the industry right away. The fact that you are seeking counseling is good. Sleeping issues sounds like that stems from depression. Try to keep a regular sleep schedule. Exercise and getting outside helps. Also seeing people, there are groups out there- board game meetups, life drawing and painting, game industry meetups etc.

THIS

@DustyShinigami

neilberard's advice, is essentially what came to mind upon reading your OP so my only additional snippet.

Is that admitting too yourself more importantly, this issue actually exists in the first place and you'd initially recognized as such, goes a long way toward getting back on track. I'm currently in a similar position, although an entirely disparate set of circumstances encountered as a young man serving my country which had in turn negatively impacted later life. Much to my eternal regret after months of therapy knowing what I do now burying stuff deep inside, serves no other purpose than self-perpetuate/prolongs, the detrimental effects of a given mental health disorder.

So not sure how the UK healthcare system works but since covid has kicked everyone sideways, universally not-for-profit organizations or longstanding charitable folk like the 'Salvos' (Salvation Army) have outreached by helping many people through these turbulent times, I know for a fact here in Australia is absolutely the case, just something I think worthwhile keeping in mind whether contacting by phone or online chat/msg.

Anyway, take care and goodluck with whatever you decide to do.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

ModBlue said:

neilberard said:

If you are looking to break into the industry as quickly as possible, stay away from areas that are over saturated with candidates. IE: Character Art and 3d generalists or trying to do everything. Find an area in demand and focus on that.

I disagree with this bit. Getting in quickly isn't the result of going for what you think will be less saturated or more needed. What's going to get you in quickly is getting good at something an employer wants (and character art is one of those things in demand so not sure why your saying it isn't) while employing a job hunting strategy that cuts down on the amount of competition you face.

If for example you run from character art because you think its too over saturated and run to environments because it looks like its less saturated....your gonna be in for a rude awakening. You'll have to compete with a bunch of other people who ran to environment art for the same reason AND actual experienced environment guys who got into the field because its what they loved doing. That just made your odds worse and the thing is its gonna be like this no matter what 3D position you run to.

Yeah. That is the trouble with art - there's a hell of a lot of competition. And sooooo many good artists out there. It's having something special about your work that helps you stand out from the crowd that will help. I have been told by someone, though I don't know how accurate it is, that environment artists are more in demand than character artists...? I'm not sure if that's true or not. From what someone else said, character artists are being cried out for, but many are looking for those that are GOOD.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

sacboi said:

neilberard said:

I would say take care of the mental health stuff first and don't worry about breaking into the industry right away. The fact that you are seeking counseling is good. Sleeping issues sounds like that stems from depression. Try to keep a regular sleep schedule. Exercise and getting outside helps. Also seeing people, there are groups out there- board game meetups, life drawing and painting, game industry meetups etc.

THIS

@DustyShinigami
neilberard's advice, is essentially what came to mind upon reading your OP so my only additional snippet.

Is that admitting too yourself more importantly, this issue actually exists in the first place and you'd initially recognized as such, goes a long way toward getting back on track. I'm currently in a similar position, although an entirely disparate set of circumstances encountered as a young man serving my country which had in turn negatively impacted later life. Much to my eternal regret after months of therapy knowing what I do now burying stuff deep inside, serves no other purpose than self-perpetuate/prolongs, the detrimental effects of a given mental health disorder.

So not sure how the UK healthcare system works but since covid has kicked everyone sideways, universally not-for-profit organizations or longstanding charitable folk like the 'Salvos' (Salvation Army) have outreached by helping many people through these turbulent times, I know for a fact here in Australia is absolutely the case, just something I think worthwhile keeping in mind whether contacting by phone or online chat/msg.

Anyway, take care and goodluck with whatever you decide to do.

Thank you. And sorry to hear that.

The UK health system is... or rather, can be, a bit of a mixed bag. I'm thankful that we have an NHS where we don't have to pay for surgeries and the like, but the staff there tend to be stretched thin and are underpaid. Some hospitals around us we've heard mixed things about in regards to their treatment of patients. Covid has certainly made things worse. So much so that's made my dad a much more vile and bitter person about everything. So being surrounded by that negativity doesn't help either.

I know here, where I live, which is a small town in the middle of nowhere, it doesn't have a lot of services for mental health. You have to self refer and one I did try never got back to me after leaving my details. I must have tried 2-3 times. It took 3 years to finally get an autism assessment. The counselling I've signed up for is through a charity and they're based in the town. I have another appointment tomorrow. Though time will tell if they prove helpful.

Ashervisalis · Jun 2023

Hey bud, sorry you're feeling so down. To note, I'm 36 as well. Try not to think about your age as a negative; everybody ages. People start new paths in different stages of their lives. You can't start thinking you started too late just because your peers started when they were younger. Comparison is the thief of joy.

To help combat mental health issues, I really suggest eating healthy, getting a good workout every second day, and getting good amounts of sleep. Far too often we rely too much on our success or the love of others to pick us back up, and we forget the basic needs of our bodies. It's not a cure-all piece of advice, but I always believe it helps.

Regarding the art aspect, we all understand. Its a tough industry to break into, and its a difficult skill to build up to a 'professional' level. Everybody's art goes up and down. When I was making my portfolio, there were months where I couldn't even look at my 3D programs. There were months where I was so discouraged because no job would get back to me. It sucks. I suggest living in the moment... As dumb as that sounds. Enjoy whats around you, do a good job at work, and come home and make art.

Sending lots of love your way

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Ashervisalis said:

Hey bud, sorry you're feeling so down. To note, I'm 36 as well. Try not to think about your age as a negative; everybody ages. People start new paths in different stages of their lives. You can't start thinking you started too late just because your peers started when they were younger. Comparison is the thief of joy.

To help combat mental health issues, I really suggest eating healthy, getting a good workout every second day, and getting good amounts of sleep. Far too often we rely too much on our success or the love of others to pick us back up, and we forget the basic needs of our bodies. It's not a cure-all piece of advice, but I always believe it helps.

Regarding the art aspect, we all understand. Its a tough industry to break into, and its a difficult skill to build up to a 'professional' level. Everybody's art goes up and down. When I was making my portfolio, there were months where I couldn't even look at my 3D programs. There were months where I was so discouraged because no job would get back to me. It sucks. I suggest living in the moment... As dumb as that sounds. Enjoy whats around you, do a good job at work, and come home and make art.

Sending lots of love your way

Thanks for these words of encouragement. ^^ Also, it's reassuring to know I'm not the only one who's the same age. Though have you managed to land a job yourself? Or are you still searching? I do keep trying to tell myself not to compare to others, which is very difficult. It's one of the reasons I tend to stay clear from using the likes of Facebook. I do need to try and focus more on my body's needs rather than worrying about the acceptance of others. Same goes for taking it one day at a time. Also, it's very true that everyone's path is different and people find and start different things at different ages. Though it does make me wonder if/when I'll experience certain things in life, whether it's later on or if it's simply not to be in my case. I have been told that some things may fall into place once I've sorted my career out, it's just getting to that destination I guess.

Ashervisalis · Jun 2023

Yeah it took me about 4 or 5 years before I landed my first job. It was mentally tough, but I just stuck with it. If you want advice... These worked wonders for me;

- Embed yourself in a community of artists. Best to do so on Discord or Slack. Create friends among these artists, who can guide you and give you advice.
- If you can work part time, and survive well, do so. Just one extra day a week off gives you way more energy to focus on your portfolio than you'd think. Suddenly work is no longer draining all your energy.
- For pushing yourself forward, I'd highly suggest taking part in challenges. Polycount has monthly challenges. Treat them more like a work assignment with a deadline, instead of a random art challenge online. When doing these challenges, look at the calendar and realize you've only got x weeks left.

Try to realize your success is NOT in whether you land a job next month, but if your art has improved since last month. Put your emotional success on creating better art. I see your portfolio and ITS IMPROVING. Thats awesome. Your stuff from several months ago looks better than your stuff from years ago. That's what counts. If you keep going, your art next year will be even better!

If it helps you at all, I believe you would stand a chance at getting hired at some studios with your portfolio. There is definitely room to improve, but please don't give up, keep pushing forward with your art.

ModBlue · Jun 2023

DustyShinigami said:
Yeah. That is the trouble with art - there's a hell of a lot of competition. And sooooo many good artists out there. It's having something special about your work that helps you stand out from the crowd that will help. I have been told by someone, though I don't know how accurate it is, that environment artists are more in demand than character artists...? I'm not sure if that's true or not.

Its that way with nearly every job field really, not just with art. I've seen plenty of people say they would shift towards UI/UX design because they said graphic design was too over saturated to break into. Yet guess what that lead to? UI/UX jobs are now over saturated.

As far as the in-demand thing goes, not really. Environment artists have a greater number of hiring spots open because you simply need more people to build an environment than a character, but that doesn't make the job more in-demand. Its just a more possible role to break into. It doesn't however take into account the other stuff that matters just as much such as....what do you personally like doing, what are you good at doing, etc. The other thing that also isn't taken into account is what is the employer looking for. They might be looking for something that only you and a few other candidates have out of a big pool of candidates.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Ashervisalis said:

Yeah it took me about 4 or 5 years before I landed my first job. It was mentally tough, but I just stuck with it. If you want advice... These worked wonders for me;

- Embed yourself in a community of artists. Best to do so on Discord or Slack. Create friends among these artists, who can guide you and give you advice.
- If you can work part time, and survive well, do so. Just one extra day a week off gives you way more energy to focus on your portfolio than you'd think. Suddenly work is no longer draining all your energy.
- For pushing yourself forward, I'd highly suggest taking part in challenges. Polycount has monthly challenges. Treat them more like a work assignment with a deadline, instead of a random art challenge online. When doing these challenges, look at the calendar and realize you've only got x weeks left.

Try to realize your success is NOT in whether you land a job next month, but if your art has improved since last month. Put your emotional success on creating better art. I see your portfolio and ITS IMPROVING. Thats awesome. Your stuff from several months ago looks better than your stuff from years ago. That's what counts. If you keep going, your art next year will be even better!

If it helps you at all, I believe you would stand a chance at getting hired at some studios with your portfolio. There is definitely room to improve, but please don't give up, keep pushing forward with your art.

This is definitely encouraging, thank you for this.

These are also some great tips! I am part of a couple of Discord servers, including EXP Points, which has been helpful so far. I've not heard of Slack though. I also want to take part in more competitions, too. I'll have to keep my eye on Polycount's. Though I may not have the time to do any at the moment. I'd also like to take part in some via ArtStation and Search for a Star/Grads in Games. I know speed can be a problem for me - I can take too long getting things done due to being a perfectionist or struggling to get certain methods working correctly, so having deadlines will be a useful tool whilst practising.
And thanks regarding the portfolio. ^^ There are projects I still need to finish that I aim to put on there. Chances are a few of the earlier ones may get removed or improved on. One is still in an A/T-pose, so it needs rigging. One of the sculpts I know I can do miles better now as it was done before I even studied anatomy and just went off of references alone.
My original aim (and it still is, it'll just take a bit of time) is to get into real-time characters. I know the workflow and I've done it once or twice, but still need tonnes more practise with various aspects, such as clothing, hair cards etc. But I'm completely open to stylised as it's easier.

One studio I'd be totally down for working at is Sega. I know of someone who recently got hired at Sega Hardlight in Leamington Spa who essentially make mobile games and ports. But because I've recently got back into Sonic the Hedgehog, who I was mad about as a kid, and re-bought a Mega Drive/Genesis and all the games etc. the idea of working at Sega making Sonic games would be amazing!

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/lz/bt2s410pyobg.gif

jengy · Jun 2023

I did not read through other replies, but a few things about your first post.
- It's normal to be afraid of whether or not you get your first job. Don't give up hope. A lot of it is based on luck. Leverage where you can.
- The video game industry is terribly ageist, even to the point that someone like yourself is judging yourself by your age. I am around your age, and I know that if you have lived this long, you have learned from your life. You've learned the patience to survive, the stubbornness of your dreams, how to deal with different personalities and problems related to the jobs you've worked and the schooling you've done. Don't discount your personal experience. Sublimate the big lessons. They are precious.
- Art is territorial. Please, don't judge yourself based on others. Everyone's got their own journey, and you have to focus on how others can inspire you, how others show you who YOU are as an artist. There will always be people better than you, and weaker than you in the various subcategories of disciplines. You need to choose what you care about. Everything else is just fuel for self-loathing, when it can be used for self-discipline and self-discovery.
- Take your mental health struggles as seriously as you are able. If your first therapist (or first five) don't work out, keep looking for someone to help you manage it. I suffer from depression and anxiety, and had a complicated upbringing full of violence. Depression and anxiety pay me visits sometimes, and I have care for these guests accordingly. They are with me for the rest of my life, because they are part of me, but I choose what role they play. The weird thing is that often 'problems' or negative experiences often have advantages that are hard to see when we're in the throes of them. Anxiety and depression has made me a consummate problem-solver. This might not be true for all illnesses, but that's part of how I've coped with mine. There could be things your struggles have burnished for you, like empathy, creativity, compassion.

Above all else, DON'T give up, and care for yourself.

Your well-being is the foundation of your life, and that includes focusing on your gifts instead of others.
Good luck out there.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

jengy said:

I did not read through other replies, but a few things about your first post.
- It's normal to be afraid of whether or not you get your first job. Don't give up hope. A lot of it is based on luck. Leverage where you can.
- The video game industry is terribly ageist, even to the point that someone like yourself is judging yourself by your age. I am around your age, and I know that if you have lived this long, you have learned from your life. You've learned the patience to survive, the stubbornness of your dreams, how to deal with different personalities and problems related to the jobs you've worked and the schooling you've done. Don't discount your personal experience. Sublimate the big lessons. They are precious.
- Art is territorial. Please, don't judge yourself based on others. Everyone's got their own journey, and you have to focus on how others can inspire you, how others show you who YOU are as an artist. There will always be people better than you, and weaker than you in the various subcategories of disciplines. You need to choose what you care about. Everything else is just fuel for self-loathing, when it can be used for self-discipline and self-discovery.
- Take your mental health struggles as seriously as you are able. If your first therapist (or first five) don't work out, keep looking for someone to help you manage it. I suffer from depression and anxiety, and had a complicated upbringing full of violence. Depression and anxiety pay me visits sometimes, and I have care for these guests accordingly. They are with me for the rest of my life, because they are part of me, but I choose what role they play. The weird thing is that often 'problems' or negative experiences often have advantages that are hard to see when we're in the throes of them. Anxiety and depression has made me a consummate problem-solver. This might not be true for all illnesses, but that's part of how I've coped with mine. There could be things your struggles have burnished for you, like empathy, creativity, compassion.

Above all else, DON'T give up, and care for yourself.

Your well-being is the foundation of your life, and that includes focusing on your gifts instead of others.
Good luck out there.

Again - thank you so much. These are super useful words of advice. And it's these sorts of reminders I often need to pick myself back up and carry on. A bit concerning though that the games industry is ageist. That thought has crept into my mind a few times on whether that could be a potential problem. And especially the more older I get before landing that first job.
But yeah, depression is one of those things that if someone suffers from it, it's usually there to stay. There have been a few people I've met who claim they had to depression, but were then able to overcome it. I'm not sure how common/possible/accurate that is...? Whether they just had depression that was merely fleeting or it was a case of the blues...? Some have advised to 'just change my mindset', which is not something I've been successful with personally. With depression being a mental illness - a chemical imbalance - I don't really see how it can be overcome like that. As you say, to me, it seems like it's more a part of who you are and your personality. Much like how, like my mum, I'm an overthinker and worry about things a lot.

Benjammin · Jun 2023

DustyShinigami said:

But yeah, depression is one of those things that if someone suffers from it, it's usually there to stay. There have been a few people I've met who claim they had to depression, but were then able to overcome it. I'm not sure how common/possible/accurate that is...? Whether they just had depression that was merely fleeting or it was a case of the blues...? Some have advised to 'just change my mindset', which is not something I've been successful with personally. With depression being a mental illness - a chemical imbalance - I don't really see how it can be overcome like that. As you say, to me, it seems like it's more a part of who you are and your personality. Much like how, like my mum, I'm an overthinker and worry about things a lot.

Well, here's the thing: Its entirely normal for a human being to feel unhappy if they're poor, lonely and lacking purpose. That's not the same thing as clinical depression, but western culture tends to put it in the same category. Not saying you're not depressed, but you're again reminding me of my own journey...
Your brain chemistry can change because it isn't a static, closed system; its responds to the same causality as the rest of the universe. The challenge of depression is that it saps the energy to instigate that change. So, pick one piece of advice from this thread, follow it. Then when you're ready, pick another.

nOLpte8 · Jun 2023

OP, I think by default when you go after anything creative it will naturally/usually be very difficult for the simple fact that a whole lot more people want the "fun" jobs than there are open fun jobs. It's a case where you can do everything right (get the degree, learn the software, make the portfolio, apply like crazy etc...) and still not find a job in your field. Meanwhile you look at your friend who went for the Accounting degree and is now working as an Accountant and you are wondering- "where did I go wrong, I studied just as hard as my friend, I didn't slack off etc.... and I still can't find a job in my field". Yeah I get it, it is frustrating, it is extremely frustrating.

I wish there was some easy answer but aside from "keep working on the portfolio, keep applying" I am not sure what else is there.
The only other thing I can think really of is you get a job in like QA for a studio and hopefully move up to an art position at some point in the future. I have seen some profiles in LinkedIn where the job history is like: QA, senior QA, writer or QA, senior QA, environment artist etc... Now I don't know how common one goes from QA to a more specialized role but it may be something worth looking into.

Alemja · Jun 2023

Hey Dusty, I've tried reading through all of the comments and I wanted to touch upon things from your original post that haven't quite been hit yet. Maybe I can help quell some of your fears. Apologies if some of this has been said already.

I first wouldn't worry too much about age, the industry is ageist but it's also rapidly aging and getting better about the ageism. There are people who are hitting their 10+ year mark in the industry, how old do you think they are now? You guessed it, in their 30s, 40s, and in some cases 50s. We all age, and it's never too late to start the thing you are passionate about. Many, many people, including well known celebrities, don't find their calling until they are 30 or older. You are on your own timeline, it's ok that you are 36

I would also cast aside the thought that it seems everyone else gets jobs right out of school. That simply isn't true, you can find countless of stories here on polycount where people talk about the years of struggle before they get in. Even after they may still struggle for one reason or another. I myself had to take a web/graphic design job after school to help pay the bills and I hated every second of it. I did that for about 3.5 years, working on my portfolio nearly every day before I got in. So many people have similar stories, you have to do what you need to do to survive sometimes.

I truly believe that if someone is disciplined, has a clear plan and follows through, they can build an amazing portfolio in 2-3 years. You have to know what you want to go for and form concrete steps for yourself. Courses could absolutely give you that structure if you feel you have a hard time doing that on your own. I would also encourage you to focus on one specific field you're interested in and go for it. The industry is becoming increasingly specialized, if you try to learn everything all at once, you will stretch yourself thin and wind up mediocre at everything instead of good at one thing. Pick one thing, character, environment or props and follow that.

Follow what you're passionate about, don't worry too much about which positions are available, the industry changes all the time. Right now there is a shortage of a lot of jobs due to the pandemic bubble bursting and layoffs all across tech and entertainment. There will be good times, there will be bad times. Another reason I don't think people should settle long is because I've seen so many people do it and wind up unhappy and it can be hard to change the trajectory of your professional life once it gets started. Game art and dev can be a lot of fun, but it is still a job, there will be things you absolutely hate creating but they have to be done. Might as well make it in the field and doing the processes you enjoy.

Don't worry about speed, it comes with time as you make more things. Worry about quality, 3 amazing portfolio pieces will get you a lot farther than 10 mediocre ones. Get a lot of feedback from your peers, show all of your work to prove you can do it and you will be in a good space. Give yourself short term goals and long term goals, check in with yourself that you're hitting your set milestones and adjust accordingly if you aren't. Usually for short term goals I go for at the end of the week and end of the month, they are more rigid. Long term goals tend to be 6 months or longer and they tend to be a little more flexible.

I hope some of this is helpful!

ModBlue · Jun 2023

Just wanted to chime in on the job after university talk. I also didn't land an actual studio job until 5 years out of university as far as art goes. Just as a time table reference I started doing digital art about 10 years prior to that.

@Alemja
I like your work on Spyro Reignited! Thats one of my favorite games largely because it captures the originals so well, but also because of the art style.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Again - thank you all for your words of encouragement. It means a ton! Really. These have been super helpful tips and words of advice!

This is a thread I'll be bookmarking to look back over whenever I'm feeling discouraged or in low spirits. And I'll surely be taking this advice onboard as and where I can.

I'll try replying to each and every one as and where I can. Probably a bit later.

And @ModBlue - I second that about @Alemja's work on Spyro: Reignited! I've still yet to finish that collection. Got up to the third game. But I love the artstyle too! I love the colours, the shape language, and how cute everything is! Also, one big take-away from that is how they've been presented. One of my tasks for my next project is to work on presentation. Not just simply taking screenshots and compositing them over a coloured background in Photoshop, but actually having the character posed within an environment. So any tips/advice anyone can give for that would be much appreciated.

ModBlue · Jun 2023

A good tip for learning how to pose the character in an environment is to look at what other artists do, the ones you deem successful character artists. Study how they pose the character, which poses show off the best attributes of the character, what type of backgrounds they chose, color choices throughout the scene, lighting principles (basic photography knowledge helps here), etc.

In fact probably the biggest piece of advice period I can give is to look at how an experienced character artist goes about doing their work and learn from them.

Alemja · Jun 2023

DustyShinigami said:

And @ModBlue - I second that about @Alemja's work on Spyro: Reignited! I've still yet to finish that collection. Got up to the third game. But I love the artstyle too! I love the colours, the shape language, and how cute everything is! Also, one big take-away from that is how they've been presented. One of my tasks for my next project is to work on presentation. Not just simply taking screenshots and compositing them over a coloured background in Photoshop, but actually having the character posed within an environment. So any tips/advice anyone can give for that would be much appreciated.

Thanks ModBlue and Dusty for the compliments. for Spyro I worked on it while I was in an outsourcing position, so I had to take all of the screenshots and gifs from the game itself. All of those characters were posed and animated by someone else. In my own experience a little bit of rigging knowledge could take you a long way, it's how I pose all of my personal stuff. I however know people who befriend technical artists who build rigs (always a good idea!) or who use premade rigs that they fit to their character, and use something like Mixamo to pose their character. I also know people who just pose their game model using the transpose tool in Zbrush. Almost all work that is posed for a portfolio, but not animated is posed and then touched up later. So many models I've roughly posed, and thend tweaked geometry afterwards to help any areas that got crunched, there is a lot you can get away with. Of course being able to properly rig and skin won't hurt you in the slightest but it's important to remember that people are usually hired to do that and it's your job as a 3D modeler to make sure the things you make are easy to work on down the line. So knowledge on what kind of geometry is good for rigging will get you farther.

Hope that makes sense!

Vertrucio · Jun 2023

Hi, I have a lot of the same health issues you do. I got my first game art job at the end of my 30s. Age matters, but so does skill and determination.

The real question right now is if you're willing to learn the skills to get the quality to get a game job? Are you willing to let go of old artwork that doesn't reach that bar? Lastly, if you have an education in game design, consider doing more technical work too because technical skills are always in demand.

You're not going to find motivation by doing the same thing you've been doing. So you're going to have to just push yourself beyond that, I know it's tough, but that's the reality of it. But if I can do it, you can do it.

And here's one way to try:

Choose one game artist role to start: Environment, Hard Surface, Character, etc.
Think hard and honestly on this question: How good is your design skill right now?
If you're like me, it needs work, then find a really good piece of concept art in that role, and recreate it with the goal of matching the look of an AAA level asset.
Break down your project into very small steps, even smaller than you'd normally do. Even smaller than other artists do. Then, start completing those steps small tiny steps.
Allow yourself to feel when accomplishing those tiny steps. Focus on doing at least a little every day, and embrace when you want to do more.
Make your goal not just to learn to create the asset, but also to train your perception of quality to see what makes for a great looking asset. If your asset does not match that level, revise it until it does. Although sometimes it's better to start on a fresh asset.
Finish the asset, and make it presentable.
Repeat this until you look up, and realize you have a portfolio that can get you a job.

Take a look at my threads. In 2020 I completed my first asset that I was happy enough to show. In 2021 I completed the asset that got me my first job. I was laid off recently in the big layoff of 2023, and that's really discouraging, but I'm plugging away on new stuff right now because I know the quality needed to get hired.

But first you gotta take a look at what's on your artstation portfolio and compare it to what's on the artstation front page. Then, instead of seeing that gap as insurmountable, know that you can get there as it's a skill to be learned like any other, but you do need to learn to see it.

Aga22 · Jun 2023

DustyShinigami i didn't read through aaaaall the thread, but i've been a 3d artist for 30 years, 23 of those professionally. I've been through my ups and downs, been unemplyed and through the economic crisis 2009- things have been tough. My son is autistic , and combining those two i can offer you these advices:

1. it helps if you build a schedule. I was really at my lowest when i was eating like a pig, being awake all night and sleeping all day. i was missing work calls etc. i decided to turn my life around. i started eating right, waking up early, working out, then sitting on my pc and doing models for turbosquid and sending out CV's.
2. obviously build a nice portfolio that shows your strengths and aligns with the things you wanna work on.
3. if things at home are shitty, try to avoid being at home when the shitty people are around.
4. take the time to organise your self and your work. a clean environment helps the mind focus. clean your room, your desk, even your pc's desktop. avoid disturbances (social media or whatever) organise your work with helpful folders, filenames etc.

zetheros · Jun 2023

Sounds like you just have two problems really; lack of money (which we all have, lol) and perspective. We're all born into this world with more or less an equal amount of time. Be happy with what you have, stop thinking about where you 'place' in the world; it's not a competition, and just focus on yourself, and what you can do to better your situation at the moment.

Keep a journal of your goals and progress. Cheers

Zi0 · Jun 2023

I think its totally doable to get into this industry at age of 36 or older so I wouldn't worry about age, I have colleagues that are 40+ etc. So a big issue is that you are currently stuck in a toxic environment which is anxiety inducing and the stress from it keeps you probably awake at night and this again makes it hard to be creative and concentrate on anything. Do you perhaps have a laptop that you can take to a open work space somewhere? This might help concentrating a bit better. You will need to find a way to break this circle which will be hard. I agree with the statements above that you should take care of your mental health first. Maybe try to get a job that doesn't suck 100% but it will make you enough money to rent even a small apartment/room so that you can continue working on your projects in free time in peace. This can be something as simple as cleaning or packing boxes in a factory. I know how it is when things aren't rosy at home and how much energy it eats away from you.

IMO with the resources that we have online today its possible to get up to standard and get a job in the industry quite quickly, you mentioned that some of the people you know started out as QA to get their foot in the door, Ive seen a lot of people doing this and eventually they became senior QAs, Artists and Programmers so it is a valid strategy.

Your current portfolio is not up to standard and honestly quite far from it. In order to get there I would suggest that you pick a specialization and stick with it for a while. Character art is very tough and takes a while to get good in it, It requires skill in anatomy, hardsurface and making clothing. Looking at your situation I do not recommend it. You mentioned you want to explore environment and weapon art, really for now pick one and try to ace it. I noticed that a good way to get into the industry is to start with props and get good at texturing them, from this you can later go into environment art. Unreal 5 is coming out so getting familiar with it is also a good idea.

Go online and search for good tutorials on the artstation learning page for instance, I like to recommend this one https://www.artstation.com/learning/courses/owg/substance-painter-pushing-your-texturing-further/chapters/2eM/layering-detail Its a quite simple asset but it looks good due the texturing work.

Take care of your health and good luck!

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Alemja said:

DustyShinigami said:

And @ModBlue - I second that about @Alemja's work on Spyro: Reignited! I've still yet to finish that collection. Got up to the third game. But I love the artstyle too! I love the colours, the shape language, and how cute everything is! Also, one big take-away from that is how they've been presented. One of my tasks for my next project is to work on presentation. Not just simply taking screenshots and compositing them over a coloured background in Photoshop, but actually having the character posed within an environment. So any tips/advice anyone can give for that would be much appreciated.

Thanks ModBlue and Dusty for the compliments. for Spyro I worked on it while I was in an outsourcing position, so I had to take all of the screenshots and gifs from the game itself. All of those characters were posed and animated by someone else. In my own experience a little bit of rigging knowledge could take you a long way, it's how I pose all of my personal stuff. I however know people who befriend technical artists who build rigs (always a good idea!) or who use premade rigs that they fit to their character, and use something like Mixamo to pose their character. I also know people who just pose their game model using the transpose tool in Zbrush. Almost all work that is posed for a portfolio, but not animated is posed and then touched up later. So many models I've roughly posed, and thend tweaked geometry afterwards to help any areas that got crunched, there is a lot you can get away with. Of course being able to properly rig and skin won't hurt you in the slightest but it's important to remember that people are usually hired to do that and it's your job as a 3D modeler to make sure the things you make are easy to work on down the line. So knowledge on what kind of geometry is good for rigging will get you farther.

Hope that makes sense!

Cool. Yeah, I can do some rigging. I first learnt in Blender, though that was some time ago now. I've forgotten how to use Blender.

I've spent the past 4 years or so getting to grips with 3ds Max and Maya, but I do aim to re-learn Blender as it does have some very cool and useful tools. Each package has its own pros and cons/quirks. But I know how to use and set up CAT rigs in Max, and not too long ago learnt how to set up rigs in Maya, which, from what I recall, Blender's is fairly similar. And of course, I've used Mixamo and ZBrush's Transpose tool.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Vertrucio said:

Hi, I have a lot of the same health issues you do. I got my first game art job at the end of my 30s. Age matters, but so does skill and determination.
The real question right now is if you're willing to learn the skills to get the quality to get a game job? Are you willing to let go of old artwork that doesn't reach that bar? Lastly, if you have an education in game design, consider doing more technical work too because technical skills are always in demand.
You're not going to find motivation by doing the same thing you've been doing. So you're going to have to just push yourself beyond that, I know it's tough, but that's the reality of it. But if I can do it, you can do it.
And here's one way to try:
Choose one game artist role to start: Environment, Hard Surface, Character, etc.
Think hard and honestly on this question: How good is your design skill right now?
If you're like me, it needs work, then find a really good piece of concept art in that role, and recreate it with the goal of matching the look of an AAA level asset.
Break down your project into very small steps, even smaller than you'd normally do. Even smaller than other artists do. Then, start completing those steps small tiny steps.
Allow yourself to feel when accomplishing those tiny steps. Focus on doing at least a little every day, and embrace when you want to do more.
Make your goal not just to learn to create the asset, but also to train your perception of quality to see what makes for a great looking asset. If your asset does not match that level, revise it until it does. Although sometimes it's better to start on a fresh asset.
Finish the asset, and make it presentable.
Repeat this until you look up, and realize you have a portfolio that can get you a job.
Take a look at my threads. In 2020 I completed my first asset that I was happy enough to show. In 2021 I completed the asset that got me my first job. I was laid off recently in the big layoff of 2023, and that's really discouraging, but I'm plugging away on new stuff right now because I know the quality needed to get hired.
But first you gotta take a look at what's on your artstation portfolio and compare it to what's on the artstation front page. Then, instead of seeing that gap as insurmountable, know that you can get there as it's a skill to be learned like any other, but you do need to learn to see it.

Some very useful tips and advice here. Thanks. Yeah, the layoff situation must suck so much. :-\ But, I guess, if that were ever to happen to me, I'll try not to be discouraged. I mean, surely once you've landed your first job in the industry and gained the experience and confidence, it won't be as difficult the next time around...? And as you say, you keep practising and building up your portfolio for the next role. My eye for detail/quality and what looks right/wrong has come along way since I first started, which will only continue to improve.

As to my design skills - are you talking about game design in general? Or character designs? If the former - I have no experience in game design. If the latter - not much experience. But I do aim to try making stuff based on other people's concept art in the future. Lately, I tend to focus on my favourite characters that have already been made and try to replicate those. Break down how the artist made them and why they did things a certain way.

The first few projects I added to my ArtStation were uploaded a while back now, and I've come a long way since then, so a lot of those will eventually get removed and replaced. Maybe even re-made to be better.

DustyShinigami · Jun 2023

Aga22 said:

DustyShinigami i didn't read through aaaaall the thread, but i've been a 3d artist for 30 years, 23 of those professionally. I've been through my ups and downs, been unemplyed and through the economic crisis 2009- things have been tough. My son is autistic , and combining those two i can offer you these advices:

1. it helps if you build a schedule. I was really at my lowest when i was eating like a pig, being awake all night and sleeping all day. i was missing work calls etc. i decided to turn my life around. i started eating right, waking up early, working out, then sitting on my pc and doing models for turbosquid and sending out CV's.
2. obviously build a nice portfolio that shows your strengths and aligns with the things you wanna work on.
3. if things at home are shitty, try to avoid being at home when the shitty people are around.
4. take the time to organise your self and your work. a clean environment helps the mind focus. clean your room, your desk, even your pc's desktop. avoid disturbances (social media or whatever) organise your work with helpful folders, filenames etc.

Thanks. Thankfully, compared to my brother, my autism isn't severe. I just suck when it comes to relationships and become highly focused on hobbies and interests. Probably unhealthily so. ^^; As it's all lumped into one category now, which I don't fully agree with, that was what the assessment concluded - autistic. Personally, I consider it to be Asperger's myself.

The sleep issue is the one I struggle with the most at the moment. I mean, last night, like previous nights before, I couldn't sleep. I'm either restless, itchy, hot, overthinking etc. I just can't switch off even when I'm tired. As I have another project I've started with a timetable/gantt chart/deadlines, it's something I really need to crack down on. I need to force myself to go to bed earlier, read if I can't sleep, and set my alarm at the same time each morning. My only other concern is getting tired/drowsy around late morning as I'm working on stuff. And it always triggers if I try to listen to music. Just from wearing earbuds or headphones. I've even started drinking coffee, which I'm not a big fan of, but it helps a bit. Otherwise, I may just have to listen to my body and have a nap for a couple of hours. It just may screw up getting to sleep the following night though. :-\

I'm fairly organised, especially on a computer. Everything is categorised/organised with folders etc. The only main shitty person I need to avoid is my dad. Though that's not always possible. Sometimes I may just want to chill and work on stuff with my laptop downstairs, but that tends to be where he is and where the main distractions are.

chien · Jul 2023

hm not sure how if i can understand what you encounter but i stay motivated by just doing stuff even if not productive, because at random times i can return to the mood of making any progress.

nightoye · Jul 2023

I also start formally learning art when I was 33, so I don't think simple comfort will help you right now.

What you probably need more than anything else is to improve yourself as soon as possible and receive freelance work to ease the stress of your life.

From your work, I think you probably need more artistic intuition. A lot of people don't get 3D art jobs because they just do their work without thinking about whether it actually looks good.

So the important thing is to make your work look good. There's no teacher who can help you with this process, but luckily if you understand it someday, your work will have an instant boost that will be unbelievable to yourself

0Kelvin · Aug 2023

@DustyShinigami The only real advice about mental health that I can give is: learn about narcissism, ego, emotions, alexithymia, personality disorders, toxic or abusive relationships. There is a lot of overlap. Also, passive aggressive behavior. Your description makes me feel that your dad may have patterns which could be passive aggressive and covert narcissism.
When I did all that research I've found that very few professionals around the world truly understand depression, axiety and behavior. Narcissism is such a complex topic that it makes a whole difference when you finally get the difference betweel evilness and a disorder. When you finally understand what makes a person hyperactive, anxious, what drivers a person to be a perfecctionist. All that probably has a huge impact in most artists of all kinds.

DustyShinigami · Aug 2023

I'm still checking this thread whenever someone chips in, so to those who have recently - thank you. The advice and similar stories being shared are very welcome.

0Kelvin said:

@DustyShinigami The only real advice about mental health that I can give is: learn about narcissism, ego, emotions, alexithymia, personality disorders, toxic or abusive relationships. There is a lot of overlap. Also, passive aggressive behavior. Your description makes me feel that your dad may have patterns which could be passive aggressive and covert narcissism.

You have no idea how right you are. We already know he's a narcissist. He was very recently drinking whiskey (Jack Daniels to be exact), which made him all the more angry and aggressive. It got to a point where we came to blows. It wasn't pretty. :-\ Thankfully, since then, he's stopped drinking it.

To be honest, this is the first time I've heard of a 'covert narcissist'. Looking it up has now made me worry a bit, because some of it sounds like me. Particularly concerning these 14 signs.

https://www.choosingtherapy.com/covert-narcissist-signs/

I certainly wouldn't say everything there applies. I don't think I'm better than everyone else, lack empathy, blame everyone, or I'm hypersensitive to criticism. If anything, since doing game art/characters, I've learnt to take criticism onboard. But some does make me wonder... Some of those traits can also apply to my brother as well, which makes me think a lot of what we've been surrounded by growing up from my dad, has rubbed off.

But because of how closed-minded my family can be, I've tried to go in the opposite direction and be more open-minded.

0Kelvin · Aug 2023

To think "I'm better than everyone" is the classic narcissistic trait. But I've came to learn that there is a hidden face of narcissism in the form of negative self talk. In some comments in youtube ppl were telling "My narc ex couldn't stop repeating that he was the worst person in the world". With both sides having the same concept of "I'm special". To feel "I'm below the whole world" is another way to feel special, because who else is even lower than you?

I've read a lot of articles by Mark Rosewater and it's interesting that he discusses a lot of overlaps between psychology and game design. He is pretty egotistical and some of his traits could relate to narcissism. However, what he writes about empathy and understanding how the players feel would make him the complete opposite of what describes a narcissist.

Mark Rosewater is the head designer of Magic.

About depression I follow a psychiatrist who has 2.8 million followers in my country. He said that depression has a trap. Often people try to pinpoint the exact origin of it and by doing that they become stuck in a loop which doesn't help. This loop makes the depression worse. The trick is to focus on what you can do to heal. To know "I'm depressed because of ..." is not a requisite to get better. What is a requisite, however, is to take action. For example: if you try to find the exact cause of your depression, this pattern of thinking won't save you. But if you focus your energy into exercises, positive behaviors. That is what is going to save you.

In desparate need of words of encouragement and advice

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