In desparate need of words of encouragement and advice
polycounter lvl 5
Hi
I'm really not sure how this thread is going to pan out. I suspect it'll probably just die after a couple of posts or something. But I really need some words of encouragement. :-\ I don't feel like I get much these days and certainly not from family. I struggle with mental health issues - depression, anxiety, and was even diagnosed with autism back in 2017 (though I consider it to be Asperger's in my case). I've even recently had to get counselling, though it remains to be seen how useful that is based on the first session. Combined with that, I have sleeping problems, which makes it an issue when working on stuff through the day as I'm always drowsy and tired. In many cases, I have to take naps before I can focus and work on anything.
One of the biggest worries I have is breaking into the games industry. Compared to my peers, who are much younger, I'm now 36 and feel like life is rapidly passing by. I've been stuck in dead-end retail jobs most of my life, which were just hell for me, and since the last one where I was made redundant, I'm currently unemployed. And I have no desire to go back into it. It took me until the age of 30 to discover and get into game art/development as a potential career option. I went back to college and then onto university. I have a degree in Games Art and I'm at the end of a Masters course in 3D Computer Games Design. My fear is how long it'll take afterwards to get into the industry as I'll need to continue to polish my skills and build a solid portfolio. Combined with the fact that it's very hard to get into and competitive.
Things have been rough lately with my mental health and I often feel quite dispondent, which affects motivation on getting anything done, particularly projects and the like. In my own time, I would like to learn some environment and weapon art through online courses, but I'm not sure how long that'll take. I'm interested in learning a mixture of game art roles, not just exclusively character art, which is what I'm doing, but I know my speed at completing projects, for some of the reasons mentioned above, is quite slow. This is an issue I really need to work on fixing. The worry of ever making it constantly naws away at me daily. It also doesn't help that other peers much younger than me have broken into the industry straight after graduation. Admittedly, some are very basic and lower tier roles, such as QA, or just a general 3D artist rather than what they originally studied, but they've still managed to get their foot in the door.
The other concern I have is being able to move out and live independently. Things aren't rosy at home, which doesn't help matters, and what with the cost of living crisis in the UK as well, it makes it next to impossible to ever move out until I land a job at a studio and relocate. Or work remotely.
So yeah... Apologies for the sob story, but I really need some words of encouragement and advice. I need some renewed motivation. And if this isn't the best place for this, I'd appreciate it if some could point me to a better forum related to game art/dev.
Thanks
I'm really not sure how this thread is going to pan out. I suspect it'll probably just die after a couple of posts or something. But I really need some words of encouragement. :-\ I don't feel like I get much these days and certainly not from family. I struggle with mental health issues - depression, anxiety, and was even diagnosed with autism back in 2017 (though I consider it to be Asperger's in my case). I've even recently had to get counselling, though it remains to be seen how useful that is based on the first session. Combined with that, I have sleeping problems, which makes it an issue when working on stuff through the day as I'm always drowsy and tired. In many cases, I have to take naps before I can focus and work on anything.
One of the biggest worries I have is breaking into the games industry. Compared to my peers, who are much younger, I'm now 36 and feel like life is rapidly passing by. I've been stuck in dead-end retail jobs most of my life, which were just hell for me, and since the last one where I was made redundant, I'm currently unemployed. And I have no desire to go back into it. It took me until the age of 30 to discover and get into game art/development as a potential career option. I went back to college and then onto university. I have a degree in Games Art and I'm at the end of a Masters course in 3D Computer Games Design. My fear is how long it'll take afterwards to get into the industry as I'll need to continue to polish my skills and build a solid portfolio. Combined with the fact that it's very hard to get into and competitive.
Things have been rough lately with my mental health and I often feel quite dispondent, which affects motivation on getting anything done, particularly projects and the like. In my own time, I would like to learn some environment and weapon art through online courses, but I'm not sure how long that'll take. I'm interested in learning a mixture of game art roles, not just exclusively character art, which is what I'm doing, but I know my speed at completing projects, for some of the reasons mentioned above, is quite slow. This is an issue I really need to work on fixing. The worry of ever making it constantly naws away at me daily. It also doesn't help that other peers much younger than me have broken into the industry straight after graduation. Admittedly, some are very basic and lower tier roles, such as QA, or just a general 3D artist rather than what they originally studied, but they've still managed to get their foot in the door.
The other concern I have is being able to move out and live independently. Things aren't rosy at home, which doesn't help matters, and what with the cost of living crisis in the UK as well, it makes it next to impossible to ever move out until I land a job at a studio and relocate. Or work remotely.
So yeah... Apologies for the sob story, but I really need some words of encouragement and advice. I need some renewed motivation. And if this isn't the best place for this, I'd appreciate it if some could point me to a better forum related to game art/dev.
Thanks
Replies
Take care!
Someone can close this thread then; I no longer want to continue posting in it.
I hope this helps you get through this trying time. And if you want to chat, dm me, I’m always willing to talk!
Jeez man, your point is valid, but maybe find a way to express it with tact and respect?
@DustyShinigami
I have been in more or less the exact same shoes. The good news is you CAN get into the industry at your age - I did it
Make some friends, however you can. Hobby groups, ASD support groups, volunteer work. Its not easy for anyone, 10x harder for those on the spectrum, but essential for every human. Maybe try to mend bridges and reconnect with old friends. If you can't do it in person, do it online.
I mean, I have kinda made a couple of new friends through uni, though one ended up just using me and has stopped talking to me, but many will eventually lose touch once it's over. I have joined their Discord server, which is centred around character art, and they have a voice/work channel where some get together. Though when I have sometimes joined, they've been engrossed in a gaming session online and felt a bit like a spare part. Also, I did manage to mend bridges with at least one of those friends.
EDIT: Noticed on your portfolio you worked on the Blade Runner adventure game. I've still yet to play it, but I think it's on my GOG wishlist. I'm a fan of the classic point n' clicks. I understand it got a remaster recently, but didn't get a very good reception.
I disagree with this bit. Getting in quickly isn't the result of going for what you think will be less saturated or more needed. What's going to get you in quickly is getting good at something an employer wants (and character art is one of those things in demand so not sure why your saying it isn't) while employing a job hunting strategy that cuts down on the amount of competition you face.
If for example you run from character art because you think its too over saturated and run to environments because it looks like its less saturated....your gonna be in for a rude awakening. You'll have to compete with a bunch of other people who ran to environment art for the same reason AND actual experienced environment guys who got into the field because its what they loved doing. That just made your odds worse and the thing is its gonna be like this no matter what 3D position you run to.
- Embed yourself in a community of artists. Best to do so on Discord or Slack. Create friends among these artists, who can guide you and give you advice.
- If you can work part time, and survive well, do so. Just one extra day a week off gives you way more energy to focus on your portfolio than you'd think. Suddenly work is no longer draining all your energy.
- For pushing yourself forward, I'd highly suggest taking part in challenges. Polycount has monthly challenges. Treat them more like a work assignment with a deadline, instead of a random art challenge online. When doing these challenges, look at the calendar and realize you've only got x weeks left.
Try to realize your success is NOT in whether you land a job next month, but if your art has improved since last month. Put your emotional success on creating better art. I see your portfolio and ITS IMPROVING. Thats awesome. Your stuff from several months ago looks better than your stuff from years ago. That's what counts. If you keep going, your art next year will be even better!
If it helps you at all, I believe you would stand a chance at getting hired at some studios with your portfolio. There is definitely room to improve, but please don't give up, keep pushing forward with your art.
Yeah. That is the trouble with art - there's a hell of a lot of competition. And sooooo many good artists out there. It's having something special about your work that helps you stand out from the crowd that will help. I have been told by someone, though I don't know how accurate it is, that environment artists are more in demand than character artists...? I'm not sure if that's true or not.
Its that way with nearly every job field really, not just with art. I've seen plenty of people say they would shift towards UI/UX design because they said graphic design was too over saturated to break into. Yet guess what that lead to? UI/UX jobs are now over saturated.
As far as the in-demand thing goes, not really. Environment artists have a greater number of hiring spots open because you simply need more people to build an environment than a character, but that doesn't make the job more in-demand. Its just a more possible role to break into. It doesn't however take into account the other stuff that matters just as much such as....what do you personally like doing, what are you good at doing, etc. The other thing that also isn't taken into account is what is the employer looking for. They might be looking for something that only you and a few other candidates have out of a big pool of candidates.
And thanks regarding the portfolio. ^^ There are projects I still need to finish that I aim to put on there. Chances are a few of the earlier ones may get removed or improved on. One is still in an A/T-pose, so it needs rigging. One of the sculpts I know I can do miles better now as it was done before I even studied anatomy and just went off of references alone.
My original aim (and it still is, it'll just take a bit of time) is to get into real-time characters. I know the workflow and I've done it once or twice, but still need tonnes more practise with various aspects, such as clothing, hair cards etc. But I'm completely open to stylised as it's easier.
One studio I'd be totally down for working at is Sega. I know of someone who recently got hired at Sega Hardlight in Leamington Spa who essentially make mobile games and ports. But because I've recently got back into Sonic the Hedgehog, who I was mad about as a kid, and re-bought a Mega Drive/Genesis and all the games etc. the idea of working at Sega making Sonic games would be amazing!
- It's normal to be afraid of whether or not you get your first job. Don't give up hope. A lot of it is based on luck. Leverage where you can.
- The video game industry is terribly ageist, even to the point that someone like yourself is judging yourself by your age. I am around your age, and I know that if you have lived this long, you have learned from your life. You've learned the patience to survive, the stubbornness of your dreams, how to deal with different personalities and problems related to the jobs you've worked and the schooling you've done. Don't discount your personal experience. Sublimate the big lessons. They are precious.
- Art is territorial. Please, don't judge yourself based on others. Everyone's got their own journey, and you have to focus on how others can inspire you, how others show you who YOU are as an artist. There will always be people better than you, and weaker than you in the various subcategories of disciplines. You need to choose what you care about. Everything else is just fuel for self-loathing, when it can be used for self-discipline and self-discovery.
- Take your mental health struggles as seriously as you are able. If your first therapist (or first five) don't work out, keep looking for someone to help you manage it. I suffer from depression and anxiety, and had a complicated upbringing full of violence. Depression and anxiety pay me visits sometimes, and I have care for these guests accordingly. They are with me for the rest of my life, because they are part of me, but I choose what role they play. The weird thing is that often 'problems' or negative experiences often have advantages that are hard to see when we're in the throes of them. Anxiety and depression has made me a consummate problem-solver. This might not be true for all illnesses, but that's part of how I've coped with mine. There could be things your struggles have burnished for you, like empathy, creativity, compassion.
Above all else, DON'T give up, and care for yourself.
Your well-being is the foundation of your life, and that includes focusing on your gifts instead of others.
Good luck out there.
But yeah, depression is one of those things that if someone suffers from it, it's usually there to stay. There have been a few people I've met who claim they had to depression, but were then able to overcome it. I'm not sure how common/possible/accurate that is...? Whether they just had depression that was merely fleeting or it was a case of the blues...? Some have advised to 'just change my mindset', which is not something I've been successful with personally. With depression being a mental illness - a chemical imbalance - I don't really see how it can be overcome like that. As you say, to me, it seems like it's more a part of who you are and your personality. Much like how, like my mum, I'm an overthinker and worry about things a lot.
Your brain chemistry can change because it isn't a static, closed system; its responds to the same causality as the rest of the universe. The challenge of depression is that it saps the energy to instigate that change. So, pick one piece of advice from this thread, follow it. Then when you're ready, pick another.
I wish there was some easy answer but aside from "keep working on the portfolio, keep applying" I am not sure what else is there.
The only other thing I can think really of is you get a job in like QA for a studio and hopefully move up to an art position at some point in the future. I have seen some profiles in LinkedIn where the job history is like: QA, senior QA, writer or QA, senior QA, environment artist etc... Now I don't know how common one goes from QA to a more specialized role but it may be something worth looking into.
I first wouldn't worry too much about age, the industry is ageist but it's also rapidly aging and getting better about the ageism. There are people who are hitting their 10+ year mark in the industry, how old do you think they are now? You guessed it, in their 30s, 40s, and in some cases 50s. We all age, and it's never too late to start the thing you are passionate about. Many, many people, including well known celebrities, don't find their calling until they are 30 or older. You are on your own timeline, it's ok that you are 36
I would also cast aside the thought that it seems everyone else gets jobs right out of school. That simply isn't true, you can find countless of stories here on polycount where people talk about the years of struggle before they get in. Even after they may still struggle for one reason or another. I myself had to take a web/graphic design job after school to help pay the bills and I hated every second of it. I did that for about 3.5 years, working on my portfolio nearly every day before I got in. So many people have similar stories, you have to do what you need to do to survive sometimes.
I truly believe that if someone is disciplined, has a clear plan and follows through, they can build an amazing portfolio in 2-3 years. You have to know what you want to go for and form concrete steps for yourself. Courses could absolutely give you that structure if you feel you have a hard time doing that on your own. I would also encourage you to focus on one specific field you're interested in and go for it. The industry is becoming increasingly specialized, if you try to learn everything all at once, you will stretch yourself thin and wind up mediocre at everything instead of good at one thing. Pick one thing, character, environment or props and follow that.
Follow what you're passionate about, don't worry too much about which positions are available, the industry changes all the time. Right now there is a shortage of a lot of jobs due to the pandemic bubble bursting and layoffs all across tech and entertainment. There will be good times, there will be bad times. Another reason I don't think people should settle long is because I've seen so many people do it and wind up unhappy and it can be hard to change the trajectory of your professional life once it gets started. Game art and dev can be a lot of fun, but it is still a job, there will be things you absolutely hate creating but they have to be done. Might as well make it in the field and doing the processes you enjoy.
Don't worry about speed, it comes with time as you make more things. Worry about quality, 3 amazing portfolio pieces will get you a lot farther than 10 mediocre ones. Get a lot of feedback from your peers, show all of your work to prove you can do it and you will be in a good space. Give yourself short term goals and long term goals, check in with yourself that you're hitting your set milestones and adjust accordingly if you aren't. Usually for short term goals I go for at the end of the week and end of the month, they are more rigid. Long term goals tend to be 6 months or longer and they tend to be a little more flexible.
I hope some of this is helpful!
@Alemja
I like your work on Spyro Reignited! Thats one of my favorite games largely because it captures the originals so well, but also because of the art style.
In fact probably the biggest piece of advice period I can give is to look at how an experienced character artist goes about doing their work and learn from them.
Hi, I have a lot of the same health issues you do. I got my first game art job at the end of my 30s. Age matters, but so does skill and determination.
The real question right now is if you're willing to learn the skills to get the quality to get a game job? Are you willing to let go of old artwork that doesn't reach that bar? Lastly, if you have an education in game design, consider doing more technical work too because technical skills are always in demand.
You're not going to find motivation by doing the same thing you've been doing. So you're going to have to just push yourself beyond that, I know it's tough, but that's the reality of it. But if I can do it, you can do it.
And here's one way to try:
Take a look at my threads. In 2020 I completed my first asset that I was happy enough to show. In 2021 I completed the asset that got me my first job. I was laid off recently in the big layoff of 2023, and that's really discouraging, but I'm plugging away on new stuff right now because I know the quality needed to get hired.
But first you gotta take a look at what's on your artstation portfolio and compare it to what's on the artstation front page. Then, instead of seeing that gap as insurmountable, know that you can get there as it's a skill to be learned like any other, but you do need to learn to see it.
1. it helps if you build a schedule. I was really at my lowest when i was eating like a pig, being awake all night and sleeping all day. i was missing work calls etc. i decided to turn my life around. i started eating right, waking up early, working out, then sitting on my pc and doing models for turbosquid and sending out CV's.
2. obviously build a nice portfolio that shows your strengths and aligns with the things you wanna work on.
3. if things at home are shitty, try to avoid being at home when the shitty people are around.
4. take the time to organise your self and your work. a clean environment helps the mind focus. clean your room, your desk, even your pc's desktop. avoid disturbances (social media or whatever) organise your work with helpful folders, filenames etc.
Keep a journal of your goals and progress. Cheers
Cool. Yeah, I can do some rigging. I first learnt in Blender, though that was some time ago now. I've forgotten how to use Blender.
When I did all that research I've found that very few professionals around the world truly understand depression, axiety and behavior. Narcissism is such a complex topic that it makes a whole difference when you finally get the difference betweel evilness and a disorder. When you finally understand what makes a person hyperactive, anxious, what drivers a person to be a perfecctionist. All that probably has a huge impact in most artists of all kinds.
I've read a lot of articles by Mark Rosewater and it's interesting that he discusses a lot of overlaps between psychology and game design. He is pretty egotistical and some of his traits could relate to narcissism. However, what he writes about empathy and understanding how the players feel would make him the complete opposite of what describes a narcissist.
Mark Rosewater is the head designer of Magic.
About depression I follow a psychiatrist who has 2.8 million followers in my country. He said that depression has a trap. Often people try to pinpoint the exact origin of it and by doing that they become stuck in a loop which doesn't help. This loop makes the depression worse. The trick is to focus on what you can do to heal. To know "I'm depressed because of ..." is not a requisite to get better. What is a requisite, however, is to take action. For example: if you try to find the exact cause of your depression, this pattern of thinking won't save you. But if you focus your energy into exercises, positive behaviors. That is what is going to save you.