Normal Map/Baking issues

zhaiires · Nov 2021

hello im super new to texturing and everything ive googled doesnt seem to be quite my problem so i thought id make a post here to see if anyone could help me. Any time im baking my normal maps i get weird projections of the other parts of my model across where ive my the seam cuts in my uvs and the like dips and curves of my model the normal map is just blank apart from really specific areas. Below i have attatched images of my model, normal map, the issues and the UVs. Are my UVs incorrectly done? Is there issue with how ive modelled it? Any help would be greatly appreaciated so i can avoid this issue again/finally crack on with learning substance painter

also if you need any more details ill do my best to provide them!

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/xz/x73klg93lv4l.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/y3/kywzie0wdp5k.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/tw/iwnnfb9hp5ma.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/uq/nfy0y3aylb6t.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/i4/z7vn0m8ljp3d.png

poopipe · Nov 2021

Check the painter documentation for the bake by name feature. It's for preventing this exact problem

zhaiires · Nov 2021

poopipe said:

Check the painter documentation for the bake by name feature. It's for preventing this exact problem

I have that checked already, most of the tutorials i was following covered this and said it shouldve solved it but unfortunatly hasnt

thank you though!

Benjammin · Nov 2021

check that your HP and LP are aligned correctly.

zhaiires · Nov 2021

Benjammin said:

check that your HP and LP are aligned correctly.

They are, i've already checked that also - genuinely think there must be something else glaringly obvious that im missing but can't work out what

appreciate your response though!

gnoop · Nov 2021

Your NM artifacts is your projecting rays in search for hi-res target going too far away and make details reflecting in each other like in mirror. And since Painter does set the distance as a value/ a share of some cubical bounding box around it's always a problem for something long and stretched.

Typical workaround is breaking your hi and low in pieces with matching naming like ring1_low, ring1_high etc. it makes the baking rays ignores other parts of model and do it for each part separately.

You also forget one important rule. If your low res has a hard/split edge it should be also split in UV.

That said your model as you did it (based on unwrap) would need to be separated into too many small parts this way. And doesn't look as in need of hi to low baking at all. Be having mostly same 128.128.255 flat NM color everywhere anyway.

I bet you hi res is just subdiv of low res with same UV . You could render all your maps including curvature on hi res itself without any low to hi ray tracing.

And also for a game i work for for example your model may be kind of useless . If in 5 meters away it would switch into lod-02 all those ring shaped bumps around the shaft be no more represented neither in geometry nor the normal map and you would see a sadden switch. You would have to bake your NM for that lod 02 and have vertex normals of lod 01 be projected from lod 02 .

If it's just one instance of hundreds of such shafts in a row and the lod switch would be happening by big chunks of them it's irrelevant but total polycount would be still too big per chunk.

In Unreal5 your model is ok probably.

but again doesn't need to be baked from hi res .

Neox · Nov 2021

for higher quality textures i would also suggest, straighten those UVs

ZacD · Nov 2021

Setting the max frontal distance and max rear distance to 0.01-.02 in the baking menu will clear up most of the artifacts, except where rings are almost touching.

zhaiires · Nov 2021

gnoop said:

Your NM artifacts is your projecting rays in search for hi-res target going too far away and make details reflecting in each other like in mirror.       And since Painter does set the distance as a value/ a share of some cubical bounding box around it's always a problem for something long and stretched.
Typical workaround is breaking your hi and low in pieces with matching naming like ring1_low, ring1_high etc. it makes the baking rays ignores other parts of model and do it for each part separately.

You also forget one important rule.   If your low res has a hard/split edge it should be also split in UV.

That said your model as you did it (based on unwrap) would need to be separated into too many small parts this way.    And doesn't look as in need of hi to low baking at all. Be having mostly same 128.128.255 flat NM color everywhere anyway.

I bet you hi res is just subdiv of low res with same UV . You could render all your maps including curvature   on hi res itself without any low to hi ray tracing.

And also for a game i work for for example your model may be kind of useless .   If in 5 meters away it would switch into lod-02 all those ring shaped bumps around the shaft be no more represented neither in geometry nor the normal map and you would see a sadden switch. You would have to bake your NM for that lod 02 and have vertex normals of lod 01 be projected from lod 02 .


If it's just one instance of hundreds of such shafts in a row and the lod switch would be happening by big chunks of them it's irrelevant    but total polycount would be still too big per chunk.

In Unreal5   your model is ok   probably.
but again doesn't need to be baked from hi res .

thank you so much for all of this its a huge help! appreciate you taking time out to help me, we didn't really get much tuition for 3d in uni it was mostly 2d so i feel like im making a lot of mistakes as i go

"You also forget one important rule. If your low res has a hard/split edge it should be also split in UV." i did not know this so ill be sure to keep this in mind for future projects!

We were always told just to work as low as possible with polys so i was afraid to bake straight onto the high in case it wasnt proper practice.

zhaiires · Nov 2021

Neox said:

for higher quality textures i would also suggest, straighten those UVs

Thank you, i will do!

Normal Map/Baking issues

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