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Doom Eternal

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oglu ngon master
Great id tech7 review. 
This game is crazy! 


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  • oglu
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    oglu ngon master
    How does it work that decal normalmaps do not have a blue channel in Doom? 
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d greentooth
    @oglu
    The blue channel is just z-information, which is quite unnoticeable when its gone, and most likely even more so not needed when using decals (since z-up can change at any given angle depending where that decal is placed).

    Their system probably has it set up that it multiplies in a value of 1 (white) for the blue channel afterwards, instead of black (which gives you that strange yellow/orange normal map color).
  • gnoop
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    gnoop greentooth
    I understand this is a renown genre canon  but isn't it getting a bit repetitive  to see all same  mix of beefy and super shiny metal heavily stylized environment?     Wonder if the style is a result  of the  engine?    GI  lack or something?   He says "forwarded"  but surely  it 's a hybrid with lots of post scren-space things.


       
  • rollin
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    rollin interpolator
    Jea this is not uncommon and exists for ages. 2011 we already used it in the ogre engine
  • Ghogiel
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    Ghogiel polycounter lvl 13
    oglu said:
    How does it work that decal normalmaps do not have a blue channel in Doom? 

    I guess that it could be computed in the shader from the other 2 channels like other normal maps that aren't decals.
  • Obscura
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    Obscura godlike master sticky
    Playing the game. Its a positive surprise. I played the 2016one too but I got bored with it quick. This one keeps me entertained for longer. The layered materials is obvious from their appereance. Most of the sci fi elements has this clean-ish look. Texture repetition isn't visible, but some unique  texture details are missing especially from metal surfaces on level assets. Some dirt masks are also low res looking.The decals can be observed when the smaller details are seen from closer. I also spotted some badly uvd decals :D I'm getting 7,3 gb video memory usage on ultra settings 1080p though which isn't a good sign for the near future for people with 8 gigs of video memory in my opinion. 

    About the 2 channels normal maps - Even Unreal removes the blue channel and recomputes it. You can confirm this by putting something in the blue channel of a normal map, importing it into Unreal, set normal map compression, and you will see that it replaced your blue channel with the blue channel of the normal derived from the red and green.
  • rollin
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    rollin interpolator
    7.3 GB?? lolzz!!
  • Obscura
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    Obscura godlike master sticky
    Yeah. Everything maxed out though.
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer polycounter lvl 14
    It's a great game, no doubt. But ignoring the tech side, i prefer too many things from the previous Doom of 2016, like for example, the Revenant, some weapon designs and environment/level designs. I don't like at all that thing of clearing map zones again and again (the slayer trials are more of the same).

    I can play in 4k Doom (2016) with my GTX 1060 - around 45 fps minimum removing unneeded graphical options. But with Doom Eternal... in Ultra quality (not the highest option), it's impossible. I'm forced to use dinamic resolution and watch all "blurred" and downgraded in my 4k monitor.

    There's a good impact in perfomance between both versions with my system. Anyways, that's the price for better models/textures/decals, and all improvements in general. The "60 fps cap" is not reached on my system, nor using dinamic resolution.
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d greentooth
    @Blaizer
    Well yeah, that's simply because you're on 4k. The '60 fps cap' is mostly towards for console players, as their resolution mentioned in the video is 1440p-1800p max, and possibly not max/ultra settings
  • Chev
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    Chev polycounter lvl 7
    oglu said:
    How does it work that decal normalmaps do not have a blue channel in Doom? 
    As long as you know the length and in/out direction of a vector (which you do with normals, they're unit vectors and should never point inwards), you only need two coordinate components so you can save up a channel that way at the price of a couple extra shader instructions. 
  • Udjani
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    Udjani polycounter lvl 3
    Haven't played yet, but some of those scifi environment looks way too detailed, almost have an old school feeling to it. The gameplay tho seems to be much better, with much more mobs. 

    You guys think that the edge damage was done with decals or shader? 8:41
  • Obscura
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    Obscura godlike master sticky
    No that is probably the layering. we can see in the video that the layer painting tool has a curvature mask feature.
  • Dash-POWER
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    Dash-POWER polycounter lvl 4
    Thanks for the video! It's interesting that id removed megatextures from their latest engine after serious long term development. I was thinking that it will be the way of modern engines since fast SSDs are a quite cheap and texture streaming is probably becoming standard everywhere.
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer polycounter lvl 14
    @Kanni3d But i'm not reaching nor 50 fps with 2560x1440p with high settings and textures in ultra. The 60 fps cap were not only for consoles. Just hear in that video how a 2080ti can't handle very well real 4k resolution.
  • oglu
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    oglu ngon master
    There is no cap on PC. There are videos out there people showing near 900 fps. 
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer polycounter lvl 14
    I know, but I mean the minimum framerate cap for a good experience, that is the limit of my 60hz monitor. Having 1000 fps @ 720p of perfomance it's pointless, no monitor will take advantage of it, and for start, i don't own a monitor with 120-144hz to play with high framerates. So i only care about getting those constant 60fps, tweaking options at least.

    Borderlands 3 is not an example of good perfomance (it has been criticized a lot), and ironically, i'm getting a constant framerate of [email protected] resolution+tweaks with my old 1060. In contrast, with Doom Eternal, i'm having massive fps drop rates (21fps min, 2k res, and high quality + a few options disabled). Could it be related to the nvidia GTX 1000 series? or something related to Vulkan? Denuvo? so many decals or bad asset optimization?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBrLy8l0lvU 

    In that video you can watch Doom Eternal with dinamic resolution on (not true 4k), and all settings in ultra nightmare.

    But with Doom (2016), true 4k, an average of 120fps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIJ-MzVZD0

    Megatextures offers more perfomance at the end?
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d greentooth
    @Blaizer
    Having surplus frames past your refresh rate isn't a bad thing. That's what causes tearing yes, but its extremely reduces the more surplus frames you've got rendering. It also simply just gives you an enormous buffer so you don't dip below 60, if you're rendering 100-200+ in the easiest and best way to put it.
    Also can't be suspect to 1000 series, my 1080ti plays it flawless @ 1440 maxed. 
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer polycounter lvl 14
    @Kanni3d that's what i would like to have, but it's all the contrary. I would need to invest in a new GPU, but that won't be the case right now. Compared to the previous Doom, with Doom Eternal i have a horrible perfomance. So the new tech aspects of this game must be nerfing perfomance in some great way, maybe drastically. They reduced the huge disk space used in Doom, but they augmented exponentially the needed specs for a good gameplay.

    I have been searching, and it seems this game is not suited for a GTX 1060 @ 4k, nor 1440p high/ultra. The older doom yes.
    https://www.techradar.com/news/doom-eternal-pc-performance-4k60-with-an-nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-super

    The game is so choppy on the AMD Radeon RX 5500 XT and the Nvidia GeForce 1060 that we simply cannot recommend that you play in 4K with any of these cards - or anything with a lower spec.



    I was going nuts with this game, and that's because i liked Doom a lot. Time to save money for the next Nvidia RTX 3000.
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d greentooth
    @Blaizer
    Crazy, thought 1060 is still relevant enough to atleast satisfy 1440p.
  • Noors
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    Noors polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks for the video. Good they dropped that megatexture thingy.
    I'm having fun. It has that late 1990's vibe. Some Quake III reminiscence. Good work id !
  • Wozner
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    Wozner polycounter lvl 7
    Guys, what do you think, how do they made those normal map floaters? Baking real HD geometry, or just painted in Quixel Suite Ndo? 
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d greentooth
    @Wozner

    Probably stamped height details. Could be both modeled and stamped? Either way, you'd get a similar result.
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