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Realistic woman head WIP (Critique please)

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AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
Working on this face right now, my goal is to make a realistic face of a woman and render it in Arnold with xgen hair. Right now it is being shown in marmoset 3. But the textures should be translatable. I would like feedback if anyone is interested.

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  • Mehran Khan
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    Mehran Khan polycounter lvl 9
    This is very nice. here is my set of critique,
    1-The nose area needs more love, both in terms of sculpting and in terms of texturing, the sides of the nostrils are not registering so well.
    2- the eyes can be moved in a bit I guess, because the around around the nose-bridge does not look deep enough, but that could be something from the reference you are working with.
    3-lips look great, but the bright-reds in the lower lips can be worked on I guess.
    4-The eyes themselves need more detailing around the eyelids, they look abit simplified right now.
    look at hussain Diba's work for  how your model should look like when grey shaded, as it is hard to assume that when you are working zbrush and real world reference photos, because of lighting and sss.




  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Thanks for the critique, I'll revise and update sometime today hopefully.
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Here are some updates, I tried to apply the critique fixes, and changed more things as well as sketched out some hair/eyebrows to preview her better in zbrush. Next step will be to texture the eyes and probably make a specular map for the face to make the lips and nose more shiny maybe.
     
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    If I may suggests few things :
    Frontal eminences,temporal line, glabella and superciliary arches need revision , cheeks corner looks too sharp ,width of the forehead too wide , form above lips and bellow nose and nasolabial fold should be convex -> nasolabial fold is not where it should be , side plane of the nose is suspiciously wide , sternocleidomastoid tendon have strange trajectory and possible sternal portion of the muscle is missing , node of the mouth missing , probably depth and curvature of the mouth is not right too but cant tell without side view

  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    If I may suggests few things :
    Frontal eminences,temporal line, glabella and superciliary arches need revision , cheeks corner looks too sharp ,width of the forehead too wide , form above lips and bellow nose and nasolabial fold should be convex -> nasolabial fold is not where it should be , side plane of the nose is suspiciously wide , sternocleidomastoid tendon have strange trajectory and possible sternal portion of the muscle is missing , node of the mouth missing , probably depth and curvature of the mouth is not right too but cant tell without side view

    That was really specific, thank you! I will try to fix those. I've already changed the position of the eyes a lot because here she looks a bit like an alien with the eyes too high and too wide apart. I will work on what you pointed out and update. Thanks again.
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Update as of today, I tried to go back and sculpt based on some critiques and face scans I found online. If there are more things I could improve on anatomy wise please let me know.
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Its easy to show you then to explain so I have attached few references that hopefully will clear some of the areas you have problems with .Over all big forms are great , skull have good definition but you have some problem with eye socket area and fat and muscle around it I suggest you do a study of eye socket brow zygomatic and nose then add basic form for the eye and fat above it .Do this few times till you make it right


  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Thank you so much carvuliero!
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Updated face, and textures. Still have some fixes to do on the upper eyelids, and the skin texture. Not sure if I like the skin pores on the nose as they are now, I think they are a bit too strong.
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Another update, still think there is something weird about the rotation of the eyes, maybe one has to look more to her right. Let me know what you think please.
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Yes they pretty much move as a tandem not sure how much individual control can you actually have so left one should rotate more to the left or right to the right basically they should point to the same spot or you end up with cross eyed look
    Do you have cornea , cant see eye lids to be influence of it

  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Yes they pretty much move as a tandem not sure how much individual control can you actually have so left one should rotate more to the left or right to the right basically they should point to the same spot or you end up with cross eyed look
    Do you have cornea , cant see eye lids to be influence of it
    Thank you again, yes I have a cornea but the shader doesn't work in marmoset, I'm only using marmoset because it's quick to preview it but I will start making renders in Arnold instead.

  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    BTW white of the eye is actually milky gray color and if you count reflection from sky you end up with gray blue
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    I darkened the eyes a bit andchanged the lighting a bit, the white of the eyes was destroying the eyes so much.
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Iris look to big to me , normally bottom eye lid is on the edge of iris and top overlap it a bit but as she is looking down slightly you probably have to reverse that
    Second one is looking down


  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    This is what the eye looks like by itself, I don't know if I should just make the eye smaller overall then. Because I think that is the size the iris is supposed to be. The one below was my reference for the model. Also I don't know why the iris blue clolor is smeared at bottom, Oops.
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    You have to related eye to the head -> 6 eyes width with ears , 7 height
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    I'll do that check those, thank you.

  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    if you need visual aid just search for eye popping
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Ok I've done more modifications to the face and messed around with the size of the iris. I also cleaned up textures and made a version with makeup. I made a rig for the eyes and made them both look at a target instead of rotating the same amount by themselves, I think they look a bit better. I know the shading on them isn't great right now though.
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    I will let you find some of the problem areas .Adding eyebrows will be beneficial they have volume and do affect face appearance or you can paint one temporally

  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    I will let you find some of the problem areas .Adding eyebrows will be beneficial they have volume and do affect face appearance or you can paint one temporally

    Ok I think the eyes on mine a a bit far apart which might me problematic. Also I will show you my zbrush files instead, since I have fake eyebrows and hair, so it'll be easier to preview things.
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    The top one is the zbrush file of the head I posted pictures of last. The second one is after some edits just now.
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    I be more concern with brown and forehead curvature + brow undercut and nose rhythm also mouth look wrong try to push deeper lower lip corners
    Post top view for brow and forehead
  • AndresZambrano
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    As you can see the 2 lines have different curvature top one is turning faster also they have different qualities brow line is more angular
    Second image is a female skull and 3rd is lovely cross section if there is still some misunderstanding

    +

  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    As you can see the 2 lines have different curvature top one is turning faster also they have different qualities brow line is more angular
    Second image is a female skull and 3rd is lovely cross section if there is still some misunderstanding

    +

    Wow, thank you again for taking your time to make these.
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Yeah would be easier to just give you both models to study from  but still you have to know what to look for
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Yeah I actually have the emily head model which is a scanned head of a woman. I am looking at it now and trying to apply what you explained in the images

  • AndresZambrano
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Looks like her face is concave including eye slant . Why don't you do few skull studies and come back to her with fresh eyes and new knowledge

  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Looks like her face is concave including eye slant . Why don't you do few skull studies and come back to her with fresh eyes and new knowledge

    Wow that was a big one, looks a lot better now. I will look at some skulls soon.
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Took a 2 day break from it, looked at more references from to and bottom views as well as some scans and updated the face to this. I think it looks definitely better than last time. Although I think the temporal line is still not that good.
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Slowly getting there ,brow and eye area is hard to understand initially .At some point you have start doing skull and surface studies to be able to learn all form and what make them .You have to cut some of the cheeks behind the eyes -> check zygomatic arch/bone structure also I am almost sure that your eyelids are reverse -> top one should be further most thing on the eye
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Slowly getting there ,brow and eye area is hard to understand initially .At some point you have start doing skull and surface studies to be able to learn all form and what make them .You have to cut some of the cheeks behind the eyes -> check zygomatic arch/bone structure also I am almost sure that your eyelids are reverse -> top one should be further most thing on the eye
    I exaggerated the features as far as definition goes, do you think the placement of these landmarks is correct?
  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Related imageI also found this image, would you say that those planes are accurate?

  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Yes I think you are close to what it should look like , some of the volume above the brow have to be trim [havent indicate that clearly on my paint over ]
    Yes more or less accurate some are exaggerated , for planes I like image below and Faraut books

  • AndresZambrano
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    AndresZambrano polycounter lvl 3
    Thanks again for the feedback and the reference image. You've got me more interested in anatomy now, it really does make a big difference the more you know it. I will probably make a skeleton warrior or something next for my portfolio. Left is yesterday's and right is today's. I think there has been a definite improvement.  (Although I forgot to fix the hole of the ear) Also seemed to have messed up the trapezius muscle.
  • carvuliero
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    carvuliero hero character
    Yes anatomy is fascinating and I cant really thing of any negative of knowing more .Top of the skull look like a lunar surface bunch of bumps and holes , if  you have problem unifying your forms you can use something like clay buildup with 0 imbed and z sub its like real world rake or wire tool without teeth also this is my preferred way of blending forms .Yes ear hole have to point in the opposite direction -> up and forward , its where tragus is or slightly in front .Yes trapezius could use to reshaping , so you start to see your own mistake which is good , I would consider this as a big improvement -> one of the steps to achieve mastery
    The form above the eye that stick out the most I think you have push too much to the right , if you get iris as a starting point its above and slightly to the right of it , you can check 3d scan you have for more precisely location , the one from yesterday looks more closely the what you will have in front view just have to push more middle section of that form
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