Leap of faith.

keyframe
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Larry keyframe
Hello guys i just wanted to share some thoughts with you to get it out of my chest, and hoping to get some helpful advise from you guys.

I want to do 3d. I want this as my job, as badly as anyone,maybe more. I started learning 3d this time one year ago, and i literally knew nothing more than creating a box in 3ds max. I learned everything from pluralsight, youtube and this forum, and i am really really grateful to you guys.
The following week i will quit my job. My end date will be 22nd of Friday. I will solely focus on 3d everyday, as for the current situation, i barely have time or energy after working from 9:00-21:00 to do anything else.
Am i ready for this? Hell no.I see my work and no matter how much i improve, i haven't reached at a point mentaly where i think that my work is good enough for getting hired somewhere.My target countries to work are...Everywhere.I am pretty much willing to go to Mars to make 3d simulations as the first person to live there.Currently i live with my fiance which i will marry on september(and yes i will take her with me anywhere i go, even in mars) She is really supportive both mentaly and financially, and willing to follow me once she finishes her masters program.
With the current situation i will be able to live without working for 1,5 year, that is with my own money.It can be extended with my fiance's money but i do not want that.In the country that i live in, you do not find a job to pay your rent, unless you have some connection so if the plan fails, there's no easy comeback. I also have an upcoming internship on a studio next year which i want to do but is unpaid so i would rather find a job on that subject and skip the internship.

I am scared. It seems like a very risky decision with devastating effects. But i feel that i HAVE to put myself in a position like that if i want to move forward...I want to start searching about details on the 3d industry as this is one of my personal characteristics, but that will also mean i will learn about all the problems as well and panic, and eventually end up begging my boss to take me back :P 

Thank you guys for the time you took to read this, any thoughts would be amazing. And not just the positive thoughts, please be honest

Replies

  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter lvl 4
    Congratulations on your upcoming marriage and good to hear that you are taking a risk to do what you are passionate about with a supportive partner.
    I take it that you are going to prepare a portfolio to apply to jobs with? Right now your portfolio has only one piece. Do you have other work that is currently WIP? Have you recieved critique on your current piece and if not are you looking for critique?
    Is your internship in 3D art, this might help you make some connections and learn the pipeline.
    Provided you do your bit and work smart, you can count on myself and some people here to guide you along the way.

  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    Quitting your job and working on 3D is actually the fun part. Compare it to other jobs where you might be working in a factory and standing behind an assembly line all day with no promotion in sight. At least with 3D, you know what you're doing benefits not only others but yourself.

    Be very fortunate though you have someone to support you through this journey. Even though I'm working on 3D all day long, I'm surrounded by people who make it at 24/7 effort to block me from working in the industry. 

    So imagine the pressure of not only having to create a portfolio, but also surviving the mental anguish of arguments all day long. 
  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    @NikhilR
    Hello and thanks.Yes i am working on a solid portfolio piece. The one that i currently have, i do not like
    So i would want to remove it once i make the environment i am working on, and maybe add the unicycle as a far away object, and not a hero piece. This is it my current project.
    http://polycount.com/discussion/192944/wip-victorian-steampunk-environment#latest
    I believe i can showcase many things in this victorian/steampunk environment,and i have some ideas with storytelling and cool stuff to do.This environment will have both hardsurface and sculptural objects.After that i have to make terrain environments. Being an env. artist is so vague, it can be a cave/interior/outer space so i have to be prepared. I also believe a good env. artist should also be good with lighting and definately with shaders, which i also want to tackle. As you see the things i have to do pile up and the hours at the moment do not let me do all of these. Hopefully i am on the right mindset though. Thank you alot for the time, should i send you a pm once i have some stuff ready to check them out?

    @JordanN
    by fun part, do you mean enjoyable or was it sarcastic :P ? Do not scare me with the problems that i will have when i work there, every job has these. Heck i am being frustrated everyday at work now, i might as well do something i enjoy instead!
  • Ashervisalis
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    Ashervisalis interpolator
    Hey dude, first of all, good luck! I'd like to say a few things, including that taking risks is a characteristic of successful people. You put in the time and effort and you'll have the other characteristics. Here's some advice for you;

    1) Budget. You need to figure out just how little you can live off of per month, and you need to stick to that. Cut out all the crap that slowly eats at your salary. Have 2-3 months worth of survival money which, when you have to start dipping into that, you start looking for a job, 3D or not. If your bank account reaches zero, your stomach might go empty. I know you have a fiance who has money, but try not to ever depend on someone else for cash, it rarely ends up well.

    2) Sign up with a recruiting agency. Agencies in the big cities will get you a decent amount of work. Let them know you'll be looking for around 2 gigs per week. If you work only 16 hours per week, you'll have plenty of time to work on your 3D, and you'll eat at your savings a lot less. It'll also let you get out of the house occasionally so you're not absolutely killing yourself with portfolio work. If you get to the end of the 1.5 years with no job in 3D, you'll have contacts who will be able to get you a job after.

    I look forward to seeing your updated portfolio in a 1.5 years!
  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    Hey dude, first of all, good luck! I'd like to say a few things, including that taking risks is a characteristic of successful people. You put in the time and effort and you'll have the other characteristics. Here's some advice for you;

    1) Budget. You need to figure out just how little you can live off of per month, and you need to stick to that. Cut out all the crap that slowly eats at your salary. Have 2-3 months worth of survival money which, when you have to start dipping into that, you start looking for a job, 3D or not. If your bank account reaches zero, your stomach might go empty. I know you have a fiance who has money, but try not to ever depend on someone else for cash, it rarely ends up well.

    2) Sign up with a recruiting agency. Agencies in the big cities will get you a decent amount of work. Let them know you'll be looking for around 2 gigs per week. If you work only 16 hours per week, you'll have plenty of time to work on your 3D, and you'll eat at your savings a lot less. It'll also let you get out of the house occasionally so you're not absolutely killing yourself with portfolio work. If you get to the end of the 1.5 years with no job in 3D, you'll have contacts who will be able to get you a job after.

    I look forward to seeing your updated portfolio in a 1.5 years!
    I have made the mathematics on how much i can survive while being able to travel to another country if i find a job, and i also took into consideration that something might happen so i might need more money.
    I have 1,5 year (and more if things go smoothly) but i plan on sending portfolios to people in a couple of months!!
    Judging from these forums i see people taking months maybe years to find something but on the other hand, i can see their work is not up to par with the industry. Am i right in this part? Could a solid portfolio piece get you work in a matter of 2-3 months? Like, if i complete my steampunk room environment correctly with some storytelling and decent lighting, would that suffice?
    I do not plan to spend all my money while doing 3d at home, and in worst case scenario i can go to Finland with my girlfriend in the summers to work, the salaries are fine at the moment and 3 months work in finland can support the rest of the year in Greece that i currently live in.
    As for now, I will definatelly keep a schedule 9:00-17:00 doing 3d like i am already working. Fact is, time goes by really fast when i do 3d so i can easily do more than 40 hours per week. For a work agency, unfortunatelly in Greece realistically only 25% of the people work and barely support the rest.So agencies like that do not exist here.
    And for the 3d industry itself, i live in a city with 150k people so there goes my chance of finding any studios nearby as well. Are there any agencies in the 3d industry who deal with remote freelancers? I will be working in 3d at home, might as well find anything that pays a few bucks and gain some experience with customers.

    Thank you very much for the tips, and everyone here, you put my mind in ease... Which makes me both happy but a little bit sad, since my family (except from my fiance), are all doubting me and are really non-supportive of this decision,or any decision regarding 3d which is why i really really lack self esteem on this matter. However i stopped thinking about that, and i just do. Can you guys be my family? We will have wine and dinners together. I am a really good cook :P
  • Ashervisalis
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    Ashervisalis interpolator
    If you're a really good cook I'll let ya make me a meal if we're ever in the same country!
  • sacboi
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    sacboi greentooth

    Congrats on your upcoming nuptials, wishing you and your fiancé the very best for the future.

    Now as to your decision making an all out bid seeking industry employment offshore, from my perspective carries it's own set of attendant risks regardless of an individual's specific circumstances but then again in my experience pursuing a heartfelt dream/passion is typically never an easy proposition too undertake at any period in ones life particularly when a partner and/or family is factored into the equation, however on the whole I'm guessing you've already given this situation a ton of thought so I applaud your 'hutzpah!'

    So apart from the advice previously offered here and as someone noted you'll need additional folio content, kickass fidelity of course plus one other thought, have you researched working remotely while building an appropriate showcase for your art? because nowadays the options are practically endless as too how an artist might leverage his/her profile utilising this avenue.

    Anyways just a few tips/hints I'll handball your way - goodluck.

    Cheers.         

  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter lvl 4
    Larry said:
    @NikhilR
    Hello and thanks.Yes i am working on a solid portfolio piece. The one that i currently have, i do not like
    So i would want to remove it once i make the environment i am working on, and maybe add the unicycle as a far away object, and not a hero piece. This is it my current project.
    http://polycount.com/discussion/192944/wip-victorian-steampunk-environment#latest
    I believe i can showcase many things in this victorian/steampunk environment,and i have some ideas with storytelling and cool stuff to do.This environment will have both hardsurface and sculptural objects.After that i have to make terrain environments. Being an env. artist is so vague, it can be a cave/interior/outer space so i have to be prepared. I also believe a good env. artist should also be good with lighting and definately with shaders, which i also want to tackle. As you see the things i have to do pile up and the hours at the moment do not let me do all of these. Hopefully i am on the right mindset though. Thank you alot for the time, should i send you a pm once i have some stuff ready to check them out?

    @JordanN
    by fun part, do you mean enjoyable or was it sarcastic :P ? Do not scare me with the problems that i will have when i work there, every job has these. Heck i am being frustrated everyday at work now, i might as well do something i enjoy instead!
    I would be glad to take a look at your work when you feel ready. I think the steam punk environment is a good idea. 
    However make sure that you are utilising all the latest technologies and pipelines available to you, so you progress is more streamlined.

    In this regard I would recommend taking a course such as the ones from Game Art Institute, or at the very least looking through their curriculum and approaching your subject matter accordingly. There are several tutorials available for free online that you can use to leverage your self study and improve quickly.

    With regards to what you need in your environment art portfolio, this is worth a read,
    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/PortfolioContents

    Getting work in games is a combination of factors. You should at first focus on improving as an artist, the work will gradually become available.
    I like cooking too, if you ever happen to be in Canada we must meet!

  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    sacboi said:

    Congrats on your upcoming nuptials, wishing you and your fiancé the very best for the future.

    Now as to your decision making an all out bid seeking industry employment offshore, from my perspective carries it's own set of attendant risks regardless of an individual's specific circumstances but then again in my experience pursuing a heartfelt dream/passion is typically never an easy proposition too undertake at any period in ones life particularly when a partner and/or family is factored into the equation, however on the whole I'm guessing you've already given this situation a ton of thought so I applaud your 'hutzpah!'

    So apart from the advice previously offered here and as someone noted you'll need additional folio content, kickass fidelity of course plus one other thought, have you researched working remotely while building an appropriate showcase for your art? because nowadays the options are practically endless as too how an artist might leverage his/her profile utilising this avenue.

    Anyways just a few tips/hints I'll handball your way - goodluck.

    Cheers.         

    Hi, thanks for your comments. To be honest, the dream is, working remotely while staying in Greece. The weather , food and people and activities are too good compared to the rest of europe. But the salaries here are 400 euros, barely enough for an individual to live in an apartment, no smoking, no kids, no vehicles. So, working remotely would be nice, getting a couple of tasks per month for 400$ combined would suffice to get me through.Even half would be nice and aid in my support.
    Problem is, i have no clue about how to do that. And that is one of the hardships of one seeking info when they stand alone and learn by themselves. I only know the site "people per hour", but i dont know how much this is used in 3d industry. Do you have any places to search for remote work and offer my service as freelancer? 
    Speaking of which, i also have asked here in my country what i should do to be a freelancer, and they told me that i have to start paying for insurance and taxes because i am marketing myself and offering service. That cost alone is 300 euros per month, whether you have any income from it or not. It does not seem a favourable thing to do before you have some steady customers, but you cannot offer your services without that (or can you?) I also tried searching about how to make a contract if i ever got a freelance job, but couldn't find anything as i dont know what to search for.

    @NikhilR
    Thanks alot ! i have seen that article and tried to incorporate as much as i could in this one scene i am creating.
    By latest technologies what do you mean? All the main pipelines i've seen evolve around maya/max and occasionally blender, sculpting in zbrush and using substance for texturing. I do not know if there are specific ways to do things, i problem solve everything i want to make, making sure my tricount is efficient for the quality i want. Truth be said speed is not my best attribute at the moment, but that is why i want to stick to 3d the whole day, to speed up my creation process. Oh, and games art institute might be a fairly "cheap" thing compared to some other solutions, but i cannot affort to spend 3k for that, as this will cut my budget more than half... 
  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter lvl 4
    Larry said:
    sacboi said:

    Congrats on your upcoming nuptials, wishing you and your fiancé the very best for the future.

    Now as to your decision making an all out bid seeking industry employment offshore, from my perspective carries it's own set of attendant risks regardless of an individual's specific circumstances but then again in my experience pursuing a heartfelt dream/passion is typically never an easy proposition too undertake at any period in ones life particularly when a partner and/or family is factored into the equation, however on the whole I'm guessing you've already given this situation a ton of thought so I applaud your 'hutzpah!'

    So apart from the advice previously offered here and as someone noted you'll need additional folio content, kickass fidelity of course plus one other thought, have you researched working remotely while building an appropriate showcase for your art? because nowadays the options are practically endless as too how an artist might leverage his/her profile utilising this avenue.

    Anyways just a few tips/hints I'll handball your way - goodluck.

    Cheers.         

    Hi, thanks for your comments. To be honest, the dream is, working remotely while staying in Greece. The weather , food and people and activities are too good compared to the rest of europe. But the salaries here are 400 euros, barely enough for an individual to live in an apartment, no smoking, no kids, no vehicles. So, working remotely would be nice, getting a couple of tasks per month for 400$ combined would suffice to get me through.Even half would be nice and aid in my support.
    Problem is, i have no clue about how to do that. And that is one of the hardships of one seeking info when they stand alone and learn by themselves. I only know the site "people per hour", but i dont know how much this is used in 3d industry. Do you have any places to search for remote work and offer my service as freelancer? 
    Speaking of which, i also have asked here in my country what i should do to be a freelancer, and they told me that i have to start paying for insurance and taxes because i am marketing myself and offering service. That cost alone is 300 euros per month, whether you have any income from it or not. It does not seem a favourable thing to do before you have some steady customers, but you cannot offer your services without that (or can you?) I also tried searching about how to make a contract if i ever got a freelance job, but couldn't find anything as i dont know what to search for.

    @NikhilR
    Thanks alot ! i have seen that article and tried to incorporate as much as i could in this one scene i am creating.
    By latest technologies what do you mean? All the main pipelines i've seen evolve around maya/max and occasionally blender, sculpting in zbrush and using substance for texturing. I do not know if there are specific ways to do things, i problem solve everything i want to make, making sure my tricount is efficient for the quality i want. Truth be said speed is not my best attribute at the moment, but that is why i want to stick to 3d the whole day, to speed up my creation process. Oh, and games art institute might be a fairly "cheap" thing compared to some other solutions, but i cannot affort to spend 3k for that, as this will cut my budget more than half... 
    Lol, you seem to have mentioned the latest technologies  so I feel that you are on the right track. 
    Check out this portfolio for some good insight on subject matter and presentation for environment artists,
    https://www.artstation.com/scotthomer
  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    NikhilR said:
    Larry said:
    sacboi said:

    Congrats on your upcoming nuptials, wishing you and your fiancé the very best for the future.

    Now as to your decision making an all out bid seeking industry employment offshore, from my perspective carries it's own set of attendant risks regardless of an individual's specific circumstances but then again in my experience pursuing a heartfelt dream/passion is typically never an easy proposition too undertake at any period in ones life particularly when a partner and/or family is factored into the equation, however on the whole I'm guessing you've already given this situation a ton of thought so I applaud your 'hutzpah!'

    So apart from the advice previously offered here and as someone noted you'll need additional folio content, kickass fidelity of course plus one other thought, have you researched working remotely while building an appropriate showcase for your art? because nowadays the options are practically endless as too how an artist might leverage his/her profile utilising this avenue.

    Anyways just a few tips/hints I'll handball your way - goodluck.

    Cheers.         

    Hi, thanks for your comments. To be honest, the dream is, working remotely while staying in Greece. The weather , food and people and activities are too good compared to the rest of europe. But the salaries here are 400 euros, barely enough for an individual to live in an apartment, no smoking, no kids, no vehicles. So, working remotely would be nice, getting a couple of tasks per month for 400$ combined would suffice to get me through.Even half would be nice and aid in my support.
    Problem is, i have no clue about how to do that. And that is one of the hardships of one seeking info when they stand alone and learn by themselves. I only know the site "people per hour", but i dont know how much this is used in 3d industry. Do you have any places to search for remote work and offer my service as freelancer? 
    Speaking of which, i also have asked here in my country what i should do to be a freelancer, and they told me that i have to start paying for insurance and taxes because i am marketing myself and offering service. That cost alone is 300 euros per month, whether you have any income from it or not. It does not seem a favourable thing to do before you have some steady customers, but you cannot offer your services without that (or can you?) I also tried searching about how to make a contract if i ever got a freelance job, but couldn't find anything as i dont know what to search for.

    @NikhilR
    Thanks alot ! i have seen that article and tried to incorporate as much as i could in this one scene i am creating.
    By latest technologies what do you mean? All the main pipelines i've seen evolve around maya/max and occasionally blender, sculpting in zbrush and using substance for texturing. I do not know if there are specific ways to do things, i problem solve everything i want to make, making sure my tricount is efficient for the quality i want. Truth be said speed is not my best attribute at the moment, but that is why i want to stick to 3d the whole day, to speed up my creation process. Oh, and games art institute might be a fairly "cheap" thing compared to some other solutions, but i cannot affort to spend 3k for that, as this will cut my budget more than half... 
    Lol, you seem to have mentioned the latest technologies  so I feel that you are on the right track. 
    Check out this portfolio for some good insight on subject matter and presentation for environment artists,
    https://www.artstation.com/scotthomer
    I have't encountered anywhere something different except that some people use glossines :O i guess i hang out with the good guys :) Thanks for the artstation profile as well, i actually want my pieces to look like that if i ever want to feel confident in myself. Anything below that is not good enough
  • sacboi
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    sacboi greentooth

    Larry wrote:

    So, working remotely would be nice, getting a couple of tasks per month for 400$ combined would suffice to get me through.Even half would be nice and aid in my support. Problem is, i have no clue about how to do that. And that is one of the hardships of one seeking info when they stand alone and learn by themselves. I only know the site "people per hour", but i dont know how much this is used in 3d industry. Do you have any places to search for remote work and offer my service as freelancer?

    Sorry me neither, I don't actively seek freelance work per se, only via 'word of mouth' recommendations at this point which thus far I've managed to land a couple of good paying ongoing domestic jobs, by that I mean interstate (BTW my home is Australia) so all I'm able too suggest is look at Freelancer and Fiverr or even here on PCs "Artists Looking For Work" board.

    And as to info about contracts, I think the wiki is probably a great place to start - http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Freelance also after Googling trying to attain a general picture about working freelance in Greece, well geez...I don't envy you, hadn't realised just how bad a decade onward from the GFC things are.

  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    sacboi said:

    Larry wrote:

    So, working remotely would be nice, getting a couple of tasks per month for 400$ combined would suffice to get me through.Even half would be nice and aid in my support. Problem is, i have no clue about how to do that. And that is one of the hardships of one seeking info when they stand alone and learn by themselves. I only know the site "people per hour", but i dont know how much this is used in 3d industry. Do you have any places to search for remote work and offer my service as freelancer?

    Sorry me neither, I don't actively seek freelance work per se, only via 'word of mouth' recommendations at this point which thus far I've managed to land a couple of good paying ongoing domestic jobs, by that I mean interstate (BTW my home is Australia) so all I'm able too suggest is look at Freelancer and Fiverr or even here on PCs "Artists Looking For Work" board.

    And as to info about contracts, I think the wiki is probably a great place to start - http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Freelance also after Googling trying to attain a general picture about working freelance in Greece, well geez...I don't envy you, hadn't realised just how bad a decade onward from the GFC things are.

    Yea but word of mouth would require that you actually know someone on that subject :P man i feel isolated...! Thanks for the info i will check them out!
  • Ex-Ray
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    Ex-Ray polycounter lvl 8
    Larry said:
    Yea but word of mouth would require that you actually know someone on that subject :P man i feel isolated...! Thanks for the info i will check them out!
    Of course you have a much greater chance of success in freelancing if you are already established, success in terms of good paying ongoing jobs as Sacboi had mentioned. I think it's easy, when you are starting out to think that freelancing is a simpler option, I certainly did when I was younger. I had the odd job here and there but nothing to build a foundation on, it was only when I worked at a studio that I could. Many years later I ended up going back to freelancing and it was a completely different experience in all aspects, in a positive way.

    Anyway I believe you are overthinking things at the moment, for now just concentrate on improving your skillset and portfolio, when you've done this it will get easier, just imagine it being the 'keys' to opening up opportunities.  

    Going back to your 1st post, if your studio internship is related to games or 3D then don't skip it. Overlook the negative of being unpaid and take on the positives. You have exclusive access to a studio so observe, listen, ask questions, learn and make connections. You should be much more informed afterwards and this is what you get to take away with you. Of course make sure this internship is only a short term contract though.

    On a general note about your time off improving your 3D, it beneficial to schedule mini milestones on your timeline. You use these milestone to check you are going in the right direction and learn the things in the right order, if you are on track then you get to validate it which is an important feeling to have. How to know what to put in your milestones? list what you feel is lacking in your skillset. How to know you are going in the right direction? Post and ask for feedback on Polycount. Do exercises and create a body of work, when you are ready cherry pick the best pieces and that will form your portfolio.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi greentooth

    Larry wrote:

    man i feel isolated...!

    Isolation is but a state of mind given what I've experienced over the past few years, so that said I'll share an abridged version my reasoning why. In 2012 aged 51, after a sequence of misfortunate events found myself destitute on the streets basically homeless without family, friends or money. At face value a hopeless situation one might think pretty much dire in every sense of the word, vivid recollection standing on a beach late calm evening looking out across the bay, either end it all right there in a fit of insanity or strive toward a lifetime goal doing something with an innate artistic skill as a profession. Choosing the latter and five years removed acquired a steady bill paying job, cloths on my back, car, roof overhead and food on the table, to be honest still a ways to go but getting there...

    Anyhow I'm a staunch believer in the old proverb "where there's a will there's a way".          

  • Brian "Panda" Choi
    I think what helps recreate some semblance of a work environment has been the art work focused Google Hangouts.  Polycount Hangouts for me has provided that a lot in the past.
  • Larry
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    Larry keyframe
    I think what helps recreate some semblance of a work environment has been the art work focused Google Hangouts.  Polycount Hangouts for me has provided that a lot in the past.
    Okay I have that on my phone now. Does that work with group chats or rooms? 
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
    Well, I personally mostly access it from my desktop PC usually.  There's a sticky for the Polycount Google hangouts if you search for it.

    It does to group chats and "rooms" so to speak.  THere's a main one right now, and an Overflow.
  • defragger
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    defragger interpolator
    Hangouts and shit like that are just distractions from your actual work. Just sit down and do it.
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