Yea, most of the concept guys are really good at just loosely sketching something in to get the overall gesture. But I do see them change stuff drastically on the fly. I don't see how you can do that without erasing. Of course, if your doing it digitally, that makes it super easy to do big changes quickly.
One thing I'm struggling with is line quality, (would be good to hear from some 2D guys and how they tackled this when starting as well), but I am in the habit of 'petting in' lines, erasing and drawing again rather than drawing solid strokes, which makes the line art really shite XD I've seen some people sketch in pencil loosely, then use pen to sketch in solid lines, I guess it's just a case of practice and gaining confidence with it after time
I find it's like most things, largely confidence coupled with and gained from experience. You know something is going to work because you've done it before, screwed it up before, fixed it before, etc. When you're doing it for the first (several) times, early on, it's constant problem solving - hesitation, uncertainty, constant fixing - these things are all factoring in frequently. But once you've absorbed it, the problem solving doesn't have to take place and you can just do it because you know how it's going to turn out.
Funnily enough I've found my linework getting more loose over the years, rather than more defined. Probably because I know I'm usually going to paint over it, and I don't need quite as much definition to work with as I did before.
Any tips for people with stupid hands? Maybe a deal with the devil? Anyone have experience in that sort of thing?
Short of an actual medical condition causing constant shaking or otherwise inhibiting motor control, I don't think there is such a thing. You can draw something cool as hell using only dots if you know where to put them. Do you know where to put the dots? That's the trouble, and the reason for practice/study.
Any tips for people with stupid hands? Maybe a deal with the devil? Anyone have experience in that sort of thing?
I try to avoid any devil's bargains, so I can't recommend anything on that front. The best recommendation I have is to be patient if it's really your hands. I found that working on a wacom tablet worked best for me since I could undo any part where my hands wouldn't cooperate. I gradually got to a point where they'll do what I want them to often enough that I can reasonably draw/paint/etc. without the undo now, but I would have wasted a lot of paper otherwise. It's also a bit better for one's ego to be able to pretend the undone things never happened, which in turn gives one the confidence necessary to keep at it despite the stupid hands. Besides, if you watched that whole episode you ought to remember that the stupid hands turned out to be preferable despite/because of their stupidity.
Short of an actual medical condition causing constant shaking or otherwise inhibiting motor control, I don't think there is such a thing. You can draw something cool as hell using only dots if you know where to put them. Do you know where to put the dots? That's the trouble, and the reason for practice/study.
The referenced Futurama episode diagnoses "stupid hands" as a medical condition, just for the record. It's still useful shorthand for "you know what you want to have happen but your hands refuse to do it". Also for the record, the advice I'm giving was specifically applied by me in the case of a tremor that I've had since I was a kid. For an incredibly long time I let it stop me from even trying to get better at drawing. The patient practice I propose above let me learn to work with it.
Wait - you guys are actually serious about the "stupid hands" thing ?
If by that you mean, not being able to draw what's in your head, then that's a perfectly normal thing ...
Well, I don't know if Visceral was. I was going at the "physically incapable" portion of it on the theory that it'll be useful information to someone. (The initial reference, in which "stupid hands" is a thing, defines it as a condition where no matter how much you practice at something you absolutely can't obtain the dexterity required to do it well.)
I will admit, though, that I do call my hands stupid when I know which lines I want to draw and can't do it regardless of the cause of the inability.
Just thought I'd chime in on the topic of "stupid hands". I don't think it takes as much dexterity as one would think to draw decently well. Surely it helps, but if you can learn to draw a straight line connecting two points, and a curve through three points, you've got enough hand eye coordination to draw well. The most difficult part is deciding where those points go, but this a problem for your brain and your eyes not so much your hands.
Brandon : exactly ! That's all there is to it. Everything else comes from understanding the reference being looked at, and there's nothing unattainable about that.
The hardest part is pretty much to learn how to accept that one doesn't draw something "out of thin air". If something seems hard to draw, that's just because one has not developed enough familiarity with the subject. And every time something is drawn badly, without the appropriate knowledge or reference, it just feeds a bad habit that gets harder and harder to unlearn.
To use a famous artist as an example : Kim Jung Gi being so good at drawing military gear certainly has something to do with him being previously serving in the special forces. And so on !
Well, I don't know if Visceral was. I was going at the "physically incapable" portion of it on the theory that it'll be useful information to someone. (The initial reference, in which "stupid hands" is a thing, defines it as a condition where no matter how much you practice at something you absolutely can't obtain the dexterity required to do it well.)
I will admit, though, that I do call my hands stupid when I know which lines I want to draw and can't do it regardless of the cause of the inability.
Haha no i wasnt 100% serious(i thought it was pretty obvious from the futurama reference), although i can somewhat relate to Fry, i suck at drawing but its my own damn fault for not practicing.
however that deal with the devil thing would still be sweet
If you don't enjoy drawing with pencils and find it painful... forget it, seriously. You won't be a really good character artist, never. There are too many easy tasks like being a mapper or a "level artist" (wtf, with that pretentious title!).
Officially challenging you on this one. Explain yourself and how you see Level Artist as being a pretentious title for a very specific job in this industry.
Don't pay attention to Blaizer, he's just a troll.
In my opinion I find character art much easier than environment art: as far as gameplay is concerned the character is a capsule shaped collision object, you usually only have to worry about a handful of textures and since there tends to be less characters than environment props in a game, you get higher specs and more time to work on them.
If you don't enjoy drawing with pencils and find it painful... forget it, seriously. You won't be a really good character artist, never. There are too many easy tasks like being a mapper or a "level artist" (wtf, with that pretentious title!).
Character/Level Artist... not really a distinction between the two bar the subject matter.
That's just rampant hypocrisy.
Back to the original question... my friend and one time colleague Fabricio Torres had no real experience or interest in 2D, prior to this stuff he has posted up to 2008.
There are exceptions to every rule.
One thing I will say is that even though someone talented at 3D may not have any interest or experience in 2D, they probably can still do 2D to a certain extent. I have yet to see someone who really excelled in 3D, env or character, be terrible at 2D. I don't mean you have to be concept artist level but in my experience, a solid 3D artist can also tackle 2D tasks effectively. What really separates experienced concept artists from just a general 2D dabbler is the attention to shape, linework, and lighting IMO.
Officially challenging you on this one. Explain yourself and how you see Level Artist as being a pretentious title for a very specific job in this industry.
Blazier is probably referring to the artistic attributes he has which not required by some of the "easy tasks" in the industry, where technical abilities play a more prominent role. So if you can't draw well, supposedly, you're not a real artist, which would then imply calling yourself a level artist as a pretentious title
Blaizer logic
It easily falls apart by level designers who Are incredibly artistic, or by top 3d artists who are traditionally inept, as Firestarter pointed out. Never say never
Brandon : exactly ! That's all there is to it. Everything else comes from understanding the reference being looked at, and there's nothing unattainable about that.
The hardest part is pretty much to learn how to accept that one doesn't draw something "out of thin air". If something seems hard to draw, that's just because one has not developed enough familiarity with the subject. And every time something is drawn badly, without the appropriate knowledge or reference, it just feeds a bad habit that gets harder and harder to unlearn.
To use a famous artist as an example : Kim Jung Gi being so good at drawing military gear certainly has something to do with him being previously serving in the special forces. And so on !
Feng's video is quite useful for explaining the difference between drawing techniques and building a visual library.
Replies
I find it's like most things, largely confidence coupled with and gained from experience. You know something is going to work because you've done it before, screwed it up before, fixed it before, etc. When you're doing it for the first (several) times, early on, it's constant problem solving - hesitation, uncertainty, constant fixing - these things are all factoring in frequently. But once you've absorbed it, the problem solving doesn't have to take place and you can just do it because you know how it's going to turn out.
Funnily enough I've found my linework getting more loose over the years, rather than more defined. Probably because I know I'm usually going to paint over it, and I don't need quite as much definition to work with as I did before.
Short of an actual medical condition causing constant shaking or otherwise inhibiting motor control, I don't think there is such a thing. You can draw something cool as hell using only dots if you know where to put them. Do you know where to put the dots? That's the trouble, and the reason for practice/study.
Oh, and get Lazy Nezumi Pro.
The referenced Futurama episode diagnoses "stupid hands" as a medical condition, just for the record.
If by that you mean, not being able to draw what's in your head, then that's a perfectly normal thing ...
I will admit, though, that I do call my hands stupid when I know which lines I want to draw and can't do it regardless of the cause of the inability.
The hardest part is pretty much to learn how to accept that one doesn't draw something "out of thin air". If something seems hard to draw, that's just because one has not developed enough familiarity with the subject. And every time something is drawn badly, without the appropriate knowledge or reference, it just feeds a bad habit that gets harder and harder to unlearn.
To use a famous artist as an example : Kim Jung Gi being so good at drawing military gear certainly has something to do with him being previously serving in the special forces. And so on !
Haha no i wasnt 100% serious(i thought it was pretty obvious from the futurama reference), although i can somewhat relate to Fry, i suck at drawing but its my own damn fault for not practicing.
Officially challenging you on this one. Explain yourself and how you see Level Artist as being a pretentious title for a very specific job in this industry.
In my opinion I find character art much easier than environment art: as far as gameplay is concerned the character is a capsule shaped collision object, you usually only have to worry about a handful of textures and since there tends to be less characters than environment props in a game, you get higher specs and more time to work on them.
Character/Level Artist... not really a distinction between the two bar the subject matter.
That's just rampant hypocrisy.
Back to the original question... my friend and one time colleague Fabricio Torres had no real experience or interest in 2D, prior to this stuff he has posted up to 2008.
There are exceptions to every rule.
Blazier is probably referring to the artistic attributes he has which not required by some of the "easy tasks" in the industry, where technical abilities play a more prominent role. So if you can't draw well, supposedly, you're not a real artist, which would then imply calling yourself a level artist as a pretentious title
Blaizer logic
It easily falls apart by level designers who Are incredibly artistic, or by top 3d artists who are traditionally inept, as Firestarter pointed out. Never say never
Feng's video is quite useful for explaining the difference between drawing techniques and building a visual library.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnflBERf2zM
Not being specific to this particular website, what is it you'd like to do?