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Rolang's character art training

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Rolang interpolator
Hello Polycount! :)
I decided to start character art training thread here. My goal is to do lots of anatomy studies and other stuff that is relevant for characters. I will try to get myself to such level, that I could work as a character artist when I finish my school.

For starters here is some stuff I did last week.

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Replies

  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    Cool stuff, I like that first alien. The females bone structure is pretty far off in a number of areas. Its particular obvious at the 3 quarters view. Look at a reference of a real female from 3 quarters and try to match the silhouette up to find the errors. I think your off to a good start, but also think you need to slow down and really study the forms and not worry so much about detail. Good luck man!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @BradMyers82 Thanks for the feedback! Also I forgot to mention in my first post that those aliens are studies, they are not my original concepts/ designs. First one is from District 9 and second one is from Mass effect. :)

    I Also decided to start human skull study. Sculpting it was surprisingly difficult for me. I feel that Especially the Zygomatic bone area is currently way off. I will try to finish this tomorrow.

    s21cxV9.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hello! Worked more on that skull study today. :)

    S3TrupI.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hello!
    I have been really busy with intern stuff lately, but here is some stuff I did during the weekend. I tried to create some of my own alien designs :)
    I am also not totally sure if i should do lots of different anatomy sculpts or start new character and focus more on one piece.

    6zrFbE9.jpg
    Q1wlF3y.jpg

    And here is another one that is a bit more cliche.

    QmtZdeq.jpg

    I also made female version of that alien. :)

    QEXcjfR.jpg
  • NomadSoul2501
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    NomadSoul2501 polycounter lvl 10
    Hi Rolang,

    Starting a thread like this is a great idea and I really like your alien pieces.
    Something they always told us at the school I went to though, if you want to improve your anatomy always use real life reference.

    Your sculpting skills are obviously here and you definitely know your way around the tools. But it's hard for others to critique your work in regards to anatomy if it's your own designs. Doing people and animals may help you more at this point if your goal is to master anatomy better.

    Cheers
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @NomadSoul2501 Thanks for your feedback! You are right with the problem to critique aliens :D I actually was planning to do more basic humans after these aliens. I have one idea for Asian gangster character, with him I could practice anatomy and sculpting clothing. Should be easy to find reference for that too. :P

    I also have been gathering reference pictures of celebrity's, so I can practice creating look-alikes.
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hello!

    Just wanted to post this character I finished recently. This is really old model for which I made head and body over 6 months ago, rest of the accessories and clothes 4 months ago. :D So I just quickly retopoed, baked and textured him couple of days ago. He has lots of problems, like the mouth, hair and some parts of the uvmap. I would do lots of stuff differently if I were to model him again. But yeah... I just didn't want to have unfinished stuff even though it is crap. :/ Also those textures are black and white because the movie was in black and white. :) I am also happy to hear any critique of him.

    NGChc3x.jpg

    S5oUVXU.jpg

    FStKGgd.jpg

    I also got small freelance modelling job for game company, that will replace one of my courses at school. :P I wont do my personal projects until I am sure I can meet deadlines in that freelance job.
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    The Samari is really good man! The main thing to critque is that his spec isn't really helping the skin. I think it would be more obvious if you added color tho. As it stands his skin looks bone dry. I would also guess that the normals for the skin are too strong. and possibly the ao? You always want to use ao very sparingly on a face otherwise it looks dirty and sorta weird.
    I'm also guessing that the highpoly was rushed a little. You can clearly see where you sculpted up the large seam running across his chest and you could smooth some things out better on the face (by the bridge of the nose, the wrinkles around the eyes).

    Overall I think its really good, and great practice I'm sure. Congrats on the Jerb!

    edit// oh yea and 3 point lighting would def. help!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @BradMyers82 Thanks for the critique! Yeah I think it wasn’t the wisest idea to do this in black and white. I had lots of trouble creating those textures because of that. I also tried creating gloss map for the first time and actually it does have three point lighting set-up, but that was also my first time trying it... :D And yeah I rushed this in the end because this had been idle on my hard drive for so long. I will try to focus more on those aspects you mentioned in my next character :P

    Thanks!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hello!

    My freelance stuff is progressing pretty well. So I started doing my personal project on the side. I will try to create Asian gangster character. I am not trying to create any particular actor or other real-life person. My plan with this character is to level up my skills a lot. I will try to create good clean forms, stop slacking with planar hair and create those properly. I think I will also model teeth for him, since I have never modeled those before. So far I have tried to resist my urge to go into too small details early and keep triangle count low. His eyelids are a bit messy at the moment, but I will fix those once I have more resolution on the model. I would really appreciate any feedback or crits. Thanks!

    DYUh7Tm.jpg
    Some of my reference images and the overall mood i am going for.

    1eNUf9N.jpg
    His head so far. I have also created base mesh for the rest of the body.
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hello!
    Update of the gangster.
    82DmD22.jpg
    I would appreciate any feedback or crits. Thanks!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Here is a small update. I am not totally happy how he is looking and I am not sure what I need to fix. :poly122: I will add some cuts and bruises later, but for now I will leave that head under my thinking cap. I also started sculpting his body, but there is not much to see in it yet. Next week is holiday for me, so hopefully I can work lots on this character during it. :poly124:

    qVHJ3Is.jpg
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    You have hit a lot of the features very well, but missing some major shapes overall.

    -The main thing I notice is his head is extremely boxy. This is because the skull doesn't have the correct shape. Its just not round enough and I think he needs more volume in the back of the skull.

    -The anatomy of the neck is far off. Its too thick from the side, and it looks sorta like you just guessed at it instead of carefully looking at reference.

    Also, check the corners of the lips and I think the eyes are a bit small/far apart and that they need to be pulled in slightly on the inner part.

    Keep at it, much of it is looking really good!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @BradMyers82 Thanks a lot for the feedback! I will try to fix those things you mentioned.
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Update time! :)
    LgMguzh.jpg
    NpRwv7O.jpg
    I tried adjusting his eyes a lot, but I kept coming back to the original and in the end I adjusted only the inner parts of the eyes slightly. I also worked on other errors that were mentioned. Happy to hear any crits! Thanks!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Update! I think I will start doing clothes for him now, But any anatomy critiques would still be welcome.

    TQdfZx2.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hello!
    I got some good feedback for this at the polycount hangout, so thanks for the people there. :) I am still not totally happy with the clothing, I should have done more research on how to do it before I started. Anyway I am happy to hear any critique.

    JVHoHa9.jpg
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    VLlDAl9.jpg
  • ElementsOfIceAndFire
    Wow, looks really great!

    Would love to see some color on these models though!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @ElementsOfIceAndFire Thanks!

    Hello!
    Sorry for not posting for a long time, I have been busy with school stuff and just being lazy. Today I sculpted teeth for the character. :)

    F9BlUnb.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Little more progress :)

    8BZXgVz.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    I tried creating hair, damn it is difficult. I still need to at least do some variation on those plane textures. :/

    u20Lwwp.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    I was able to create a bit better looking hair :)
    f4JWjTQ.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hello!
    I think I am done with this gangster character. In the end I decided that he looks more like a gangster without hair, although I did leave one picture of him with hair in my folio. I learned a lot creating this character and I really want to start new character now.:poly124: Also thanks for the people at the polycount's hangout, you have been big help!

    ENe9rCH.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Female head practice sculpt I did yesterday. Happy to hear any feedback!
    MBu1jys.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hello!

    I decided to start new character. I am trying to create Jason Chan's Elf mage painting, It was done for Dragon age. There are some materials in the painting which of I am not too sure about, but I have highlighted them on the right side, in a way I am planning to create them currently.
    9nGGKdB.jpg

    I used my previous female head sculpt as a base for this.
    W719eMx.jpg

    And here is the body so far.
    C4Vhpbb.jpg

    I would really appreciate any feedback.
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Hi!
    Here is some more progress. I am not totally happy with the anatomy, but I am having difficulties seeing what to improve. *shrug*
    YHownKr.jpg
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    I think she's got a little heavier build right now in your sculpt than she does in the concept. Try slimming her down a little bit.
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Thanks for pointing that out JedTheKrampus. I tried making her a bit more slim and I also fixed some other stuff that I noticed. I probably need to adjust her more, once she starts having some clothes.
    uZnahpD.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Sorry for spamming this, but I got some really good feedback from Charles at the hangout (Thanks Charles!), so here are some fixes for her anatomy. I have also started to create clothes for her.

    Irg7Nzm.jpg
  • Hellfang132
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    Hellfang132 polycounter lvl 3
    Eyes look unnatural Or maybe its just the top bit of the head because it goes in so much...
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Thanks Helfang123 I will try fix those eyes. She might have too sharp brow edge and too fat forehead also.Here is some more progress. PUkUQjG.jpg
    Currently I am struggling with clothes, dress and sleeves. Happy to hear any crits!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    I suck at creating clothes :( I would greatly appreciate any feedback.
    Dc1CJxT.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    I decided to learn Marvelous designer for this character. After this character I think i will just do clothing sculpts for awhile. I feel clothes are my weakest point.

    kDNlcfV.jpg

    Edit: I am also aware that the dress is too long for game character, but I am not sure if I will leave it like that for the final presentation. It looks cool to me when its long. :D
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Some more progress. Not much left to do with the sculpt.
    419lHGB.jpg
    riRjRPA.jpg
  • stevston89
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    stevston89 interpolator
    So my opinion on Marvelous Designer is it is a great tool, but if you don't know how to sculpt well you are really hampering yourself. There is no guarantee that the place you work at is going to use the program so your skills become immediately useless. I know you plan on doing cloth sculpts later, but is there any reason to not start now?
    Few pointers for hand sculpted cloth. First build your base mesh to support details ( seams, hems, stitching, guilding, etc..) Second gather a ton of reference maybe even use the stuff out of marvelous design as reference as well. Last start with large folds in the cloth and plan out the overall flow. After you have the large shapes and flow the details will come easy. Also a side note the cloth dragging on the floor is going to be a huge pain when moving to low poly. I would just shorten the dress personally.

    Take a look at this tutorial as well ( the one by Michael Knowland): http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?182967-Naughty-Dog-UGM-Extended&p=1062029#post1062029

    Other than the cloth the sculpt is looking really nice keep it up!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    Thanks for taking time and writing stevston89. Yeah I definitely have a big feeling, that I am cheating when using marvelous. I also did think that if I manage to get a job before I am able to practice more cloth sculpting, I will buy marvelous in that company out of my own pocket. Maybe I should add a text under the image in my portfolio that says what programs were used. Thanks for the pointers you gave! I have big folder, in to which I try to gather clothe reference. I also recently bought a [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Wrinkles-Drapery-Solutions-Drawing/dp/0823015874"]book about wrinkles and drapery [/ame]. I am pretty determined to tackle this problem. I will also think about that dress length, I know it is a bit stupid when it is long.
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    I made a quick low poly hoplite! IJxTGdK.png
    And now back to work with that elf character. :P
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    I tried creating a time-lapse video. Not the best end result, it would still need a lot more work to be called finished. It took around 3h to sculpt.

    http://youtu.be/-ULxCvvDKaA
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    Nice work here man. The elf female is looking really good so far. I think the cloth sculpting is quite good, its just the sleves need a more natural look. I think you are basically just getting to fancy with the details there. less is more. Get referecnes of some cloth in that exact position, but make sure its a neutral look (not too much motion/wrinkles and stuff in the cloth). Remember, when she is animated her arms would be moving all over the place, and the second she moves from your current pose, the cloth folds don't make a ton of sense any more. So its important to try to think about folds that will work in various conditions not just the t-pose itself.

    I think sculpting is your strong point and its great you are continuing to improve here. One thing that will really improve the final characters you have is focusing on texturing and material definition, and lighting. Its the key really to creating a video game character. So def. prep yourself with this elf character so you can put her in the best light. get a refresher on texturing and material definition with some tutorials, get references, read up on it whatever. Just my 2 cents dude, since this thread is all about improving. Again, good job so far, its nice to see your progress here and I'm glad the lack of response to your thread isn't slowing you down. Keep it up man!
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    Oh and the Hoplite character turned out well.

    here are some pointers to improve it...

    -Some more color variation in the skin. It would be subtle since not much skin is showing but I think it helps. the back of the neck could be more red from sun exposure for example, and hands and feet tend to be cooler and darker in general.

    -The white areas are too white. This is a problem I see often. basically if you get to light in color there is no room for adding value to define the shapes. So start out darker and add volume with lighter colors as you go.

    -I see a lot of gold, but the material is pretty much just the "gold" color you think of when you think gold. If you study gold there is quite a lot of color variation there. Greens and reds and strong yellows especially.

    -This is the biggest point, its lacking painted spec in the diffuse. Everything looks sorta flat because of this and because you have a lot of metal, that's going to be the main thing to make it look really cool and pop.

    Hope this helps, looking forward to seeing more of the elf!
  • slosh
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    slosh hero character
    I would really stop using marvelous designer in your case. If you aren't comfortable with folds, that is a bad sign. You should really make an effort to sculpt folds from scratch with just basic sculpting techniques. Marvelous Designer does a decent job but it is best used by someone who already has a strong understanding for folds and how it may apply to game models. I would highly recommend you stop using it and start learning proper fold sculpting on your own.
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @BradMyers82 Thanks for your crits! I will try to work on those sleeves. And I really appreciate any critiques, no need to worry that I might get hurt by that. :D That Hoplite character was maybe rushed too much... I'll see if I have interest to improve it, I am not actually big fan of cartoony characters. But thanks again for writing lengthy crits! :)

    @slosh yup, you are right. I just got really annoyed that I was ruining my character with my bad fold sculpting skills. But I have been practicing creating folds on the side and will start to focus more on them, after this elf character.

    I also thought that I should share some more progress images of that elf.
    So here is some hair for her and I also got some feedback for the face and made fixes for that too. Currently I am doing retopology for her.
    WPFjjTI.jpg
    tw0Dhrq.jpg

    And here is one clothing study I did, having a really hard time with it, but I will try to continue.
    pKRPm1n.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    I finished that hoodie study. I will try to do more clothing studys. :poly124:
    NZjTZtk.jpg
  • stevston89
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    stevston89 interpolator
    Looks nice. The flow seem good, but overall the forms are a bit to lumpy and soft. Even on something like a hoodie some creases will be fairly sharp especially around the elbows. Keep it up though this is a big improvement over your earlier cloth.

    oh yeah here is an example:

    oal_rick_owens_drkshdw_collection_hoodie.jpg
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @stevston89 Thanks for the crits, I did some minor fixes for the hoodie. That reference image you posted is really cool. :poly124:

    I sculpted jeans for her. :)
    NAD7fQA.jpg
    3NxTuBI.jpg
    (If the images are too large I will reduce their size.)
  • BradMyers82
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    BradMyers82 interpolator
    very cool man. What references were you using? It would be helpful to see them if we are gonna crit, otherwise we are sorta guessing.

    Overall I would say very good, the areas that look a bit off to me are the the knees (front side) ankle (front side) and on the hoodie, the bicep area. In the jeans I would slightly tighter folds at the front of the ankles, and sharper folds at the areas mentioned. And on the hoodie bicep area, I would just do something different. Just looks a little off and weak to me.

    Nice progress though, I can see you are really working hard at this which is great!
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @BradMyers82 Thanks for the critique! I agree on all the points you made. I used different technique for those folds in the front, in the beginning I used claybuildup brush, later I started using slash brush, which suited better for me. I am not totally happy with the results, but I think I will do some more clothing study's after finishing that elf mage, before I get totally sidetracked. :D And sorry for not posting my references, here they are. Y5zfJI3.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Hey man, turned out great, cool to see the result from the hangouts.

    My crits are:

    a.) The folds themselves are just a bit muddy. I feel like they could be sharpened with an 'add' slash brush on low intensity and a mid-range focal shift, just going over the peaks should pinch and smooth them out a bit.

    b.) some of the mid-range to detail forms are a little overpronounced. The super big stitching gives it a look of unbelievablity. Stitches are generally so small that we cant really see them, I would guess you could make these 5-8 times smaller than they are, and it would help.

    c.) The seams where the fabric folds over and is stitched typically gets wavy, adding in some of that wave might help sell the realism.

    Hope you dont take the crits too harsh, those are just the things I see, but overall I think your forms and wrinkle pattern and drapery is believable, and that is 90% of the battle, the rest is just details and cleanup.

    Cool stuff, looking forward to more.
  • Rolang
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    Rolang interpolator
    @ysalex Thank you for the crits! And I should have mentioned, that it was you who suggested using slash brush for the clothes, at the hangout. Thanks! :) About the c.) crit, I actually did sculpt some waves, but now looking at it, I made them way too subtle. :/ And yeah, you are right on all the other stuff too.

    And you guys don't need to worry hurting my feelings with crits. Just give me that famous harsh Polycount critique! :D And if I sometimes seem lazy and don't fix my old stuff, I still definitely try to keep all things mentioned in my mind for future. :)
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 9
    can tell your doing the Ryan Kingslein approach.
    stick to it I use that method all the time for cloth folds (I assume your sketching these out with polypaint than converting that to a mask and using inflate?)
    I think its looking really good so far. you should be looking to firm up some of the folds. look for planes and use the trim dynamic brush to define them.
    Halflock folds tend to be quite jagged since the forces of gravity are competing with the forces of the cloths compression.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DrhuZsQNLyI/UTDPYQas1aI/AAAAAAAABT8/DfJlslIsgGc/s1600/Fabric+Half+Lock.jpg
    consider using the move brush to create lines.
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