I have to agree with Kharn here, the characters are what defines the piece, they tell the story. Maybe without them it won't read that well
That's what I was thinking. I think if that one WAS chosen, then maybe add a challenge to it by asking participants to find other ways to tell a story. Signage, decals, whatever. Without the people, it will definitely need something.
That's what I was thinking. I think if that one WAS chosen, then maybe add a challenge to it by asking participants to find other ways to tell a story. Signage, decals, whatever. Without the people, it will definitely need something.
very perceptive of you guys, never saw that,, it wasnt on my list but I agree 100 percent..
The more i look at it, the more i love it as a Noob project...
Nice level of modularity. Good scene for texture improvement and decal work. Cool semi-damaged distanced buildings.
It'd be cool to see how different artist's approach the area's off-shot if it's chosen
My thoughts exacly! Making scene for Escape made me realize once more how important is ability to work with light, materials and stuff like decals. I would love to dig in deeper into environment research, not just model another pile of assets. Cause even draft geometry looks cool with good light and materials, but the best model ever would look terrible without light/materials done right.
I think the checkpoint one has sort of been done a lot already and would honestly be quite dull with out the characters. Could be interesting to see what people do though
I don't think it matters if the characters make the scene or not, we need to remember that it's only for a learning process to get better at making environments. Obviously if the scene has ALOT of characters then it's going to need them maybe but since we are just practicing our environment making skills then I believe it doesn't matter.
Remember if any of you were working in a job doing this, you'd have little choice over the concept :L so I think while you have the freedom to choose what you want to do, may as well make the most of it.
Fair play if people don't like the concept or if they believe it's over done but I haven't been taking the characters in to consideration on any monthly concept thread. Don't get why it has become the focus this time on this particular image.
Been plenty of cool environments with lots of characters in, but don't overlook the qualities of the environment as the focus of a learning exercise.
I think that both of the 2 popular concepts are good for different learning outcomes.
Don't get why it has become the focus this time on this particular image.
It's actually fairly important to understand why ... They are what are adding the emotion and drama and what people find appealing about the image. The geometry is just a set for the characters to exist on.
In other words, in that piece of concept art the characters are the star, not the environment. My concern is that building a functional scene that was meant to support a character driven narrative isn't going to hold the same appeal for people as building something where the geometry looks amazeballs.
That's why.
And yes, sometimes on a real job you have to build that sort of thing. But nobody wants to build boring crap when they're at home and can build whatever they like.
Don't get why it has become the focus this time on this particular image.
I agree with everything Warren just said.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the reason it's become the focus with this one because when you take the characters away you're left with practically nothing.
It's a fantastic painting, don't get me wrong, but there is nothing visually unique about that scene when you take away the character driven story. And to top it off, there is zero modeling--it's all rectangles. Yeah, I realize modeling is only a single part of gameart and there are plenty of other challenges, but I'm not really keen to spend a month working on a portfolio piece that doesn't showcase any modeling skills whatsoever.
Compared to the other scene for example... IMO, that environment alone tells a story. Just my opinion of course!
Anyway, I think the other one has more votes anyway.... I counted 15 appearances for the one with the fans, 9 appearances for the other one. I'm not really sure whether they were all votes or not.
wow, I wouldn`t call It "boring crap" )) It`s good environment, and It does support characters, yes. It tells It`s story.
About things I like about this concept:
I see simple geometry - It will take less time for dull process wich is making content(Well It`s cool, but It probably won`t push my skills any further).
And assets I can do any day, I don`t really need to make whole scene for It.
But here I see a lot of details, my brain begins to work - I start to think how would I orginize texture space and materials to make this scene look awesome, yet to be very light in memory terms. Would I use decals, or material blend, or both. How to make backgroud, I see cool materials like water and polyethylene. There`s so much garbage, would be cool to make It look all unique but mapped on 128 texture)) Basically It challenges me more as an environment artist, not just props modeller. Also I would probaply use something like big projector lamps on tripod stands instead of 2 characters on the bridge and one in the front and make an evening scene... or something like that
I just wanted to say something in defence of art piece that I really like, nothing more )
Every concept here Is awesome in It`s own way, so It doesn`t matter wich one wins
It's the reason why the majority of the concepts i posted in this thread do not have characters in them. Mainly because it'll be hard to make it look good without the characters which would be an important factor in the look of the scene.
But I just think we should take baby steps, and pick something really small and simple that allows for people to spend time on 1 or 2 things rather than the previous month which was quite complicated actually.
Something simple, that we can finish in the month. Like the little house built into the hill I posted, that'd be quick and easy. I also think we should not focus on EVERY SINGLE piece in the scene as then it gets quite a heavy work load, we need to remember that most environments in games these days are worked on by many people.
TL'DR I'd like an environment to do where i can at least finish the geometry before even worrying about lighting and "telling a story"
wow, I wouldn`t call It "boring crap" )) It`s good environment, and It does support characters, yes. It tells It`s story.
I just wanted to say something in defence of art piece that I really like, nothing more )
Every concept here Is awesome in It`s own way, so It doesn`t matter wich one wins
Haha, well I definitely didn't mean to say that it's boring crap, but I admit I was being a little unfair :poly136:.
I think some of it comes down to personal taste preferences up to a point.... I wonder if Alex has ever considered choosing two environments for a single month? Maybe it would encourage a wider range of people to participate, because they'd be more likely to see a concept that they want to work on.
If we choose to do 2 concepts a month, then we run into the issue of people picking the less popular one and then not being able to see how others work as much as the other concept.
While devoid of the actors will loose it's emotional value doesn't that then become our job as an environment artist to tell the story with the scene and the state it is in? Take this and make it yours, make it have emotions, get inspiration. Those types of studies I'd say are as important as becoming more proficient technically. If this is what you guys want that is how I'd approach it.
Yes exactly Alex, when in the game the player might not always see those characters outside.
You can use the textures to tell the story, bloodstains etc. Leaflets on the floor that could be about the world the environment is in etc
I actually want to do that one now
As messed up as it sounds you could look at a lot of holocaust pictures, they don't need bodies to show what happened, and even if you made a characters who were dead depending on how far from the camera they are you could get away with something subpar at a distance to still add to the feel. Maybe some slumped bodies behind the curtain, hell I've used black figures on a alpha plane before because I'm no character artist, but it helps add to the story from far away. Make it have a dark story with real world undertones and influences.
Think about the feelings certain images in the scene that invoke feelings and accentuate the feelings those bring out. For example gates and walls can mean a lot of things, the fact there are bars you can use to symbolize being trapped, the barbed wire, the barriers, this isn't a place that you want to be unless you're in control of it. You could literally play with this scene so much.
A good thing I would try is to set up a mood board, this is somethig I've learned to do at work (even thought I don't do game art there) it's a great thing. (Moodboard)
Watch a movie or something too, sometimes the best ideas happen whe you are not trying.
I think that if someone was into zombies this would work too.
Honestly making a human brain would be easy to model, it doesnt even have to look great, make a really meh polymodeled human, it can even be super lanky and look malnurished, then make a quick sculpt, model some super basic clothes (like super basic) pose your model and then do a cloth sim. You could get 2-3 different people in a day if you worked fast.
While devoid of the actors will loose it's emotional value doesn't that then become our job as an environment artist to tell the story with the scene and the state it is in? Take this and make it yours, make it have emotions, get inspiration. Those types of studies I'd say are as important as becoming more proficient technically. If this is what you guys want that is how I'd approach it.
You are 100% correct. When I voted for it earlier, I didn't even realize how much harder this scene would be to sell without the actors. (which I wasn't planning on using) Now that you've pointed it out, I want to do it even more. Just to prove to myself that I can do it.
While devoid of the actors will loose it's emotional value doesn't that then become our job as an environment artist to tell the story with the scene and the state it is in? Take this and make it yours, make it have emotions, get inspiration. Those types of studies I'd say are as important as becoming more proficient technically. If this is what you guys want that is how I'd approach it.
Nope, i believe that our job as environment artists is to do an environment. You do a house for a project, the level designer knows what is going on around that house and the level artist does his will and takes your house and places there everything is needed to have a complete scene.
Anyway, you just can't take away the characters there without changing the art and that is ok for the challenge, but saying that you can replace the characters with ... whatever to help tell a story... well, that won't work. You CAN however replace the characters as composition elements and replace them with some other composition elements and you get an environment with missing characters.
So i think that as an environment artist you can provide the background where a story can then develop and not the story itself.
Right, to be clear, you can remove the characters BUT you'll have to add something else to tell a story because that simple removal makes the scene boring. So if you're willing to allow for creative freedom and additional assets not in the concept, that one could work, sure.
I also think that an environment with simple geometry will give everyone the time to experiment with some other things like shaders or texture management. Maybe some people would like to find out how to animate those "curtains" (maybe even let them react to a character) or something else they wouldn't have the time for with a more complex environment. Environment art isn't only about modeling and texturing.
So i think that as an environment artist you can provide the background where a story can then develop and not the story itself.
I don't think it was meant that an environment can tell an actual plot, but it can definitely provide some background story and kick off the imagination of the viewer. You can tell a lot of mini stories alone through placement of assets. Let's say there's a working bench with a half finished peace of work, a spilled cup of coffee and a chair that's been knocked over. You'll imediately think of someone working there and then leaving in a hurry, and see little movies in your head of what might have happend there. And if there are some blood stains and a bloody wrench you may see movies of a fight, and the worker beeing kidnapped. I think that's the kind of story we as environment artists can tell even without characters
I don't think it was meant that an environment can tell an actual plot, but it can definitely provide some background story and kick off the imagination of the viewer. You can tell a lot of mini stories alone through placement of assets. Let's say there's a working bench with a half finished peace of work, a spilled cup of coffee and a chair that's been knocked over. You'll imediately think of someone working there and then leaving in a hurry, and see little movies in your head of what might have happend there. And if there are some blood stains and a bloody wrench you may see movies of a fight, and the worker beeing kidnapped. I think that's the kind of story we as environment artists can tell even without characters
This.
It seems clear this will be the concept,I'll make the thread a day early to give you guys some extra time:)
Right, to be clear, you can remove the characters BUT you'll have to add something else to tell a story because that simple removal makes the scene boring. So if you're willing to allow for creative freedom and additional assets not in the concept, that one could work, sure.
That was the approach that I was planning. I was going to add other elements to tell the story of what had already happened there.
To me the other leading concept is a collection of random props all drawn with the same style. It is also a good painting that lays out a definite design and style, that will also be good education for developing a production work flow for props and decals.
I would rather have the creative freedom that the city scene allows for.
Replies
You missed out, we did one on the 6th challenge :c
That one would take way more than a month. It is damn sexy, I know someone else on PC was working on it, it was amazing.
This!
I have to agree with Kharn here, the characters are what defines the piece, they tell the story. Maybe without them it won't read that well
very perceptive of you guys, never saw that,, it wasnt on my list but I agree 100 percent..
My thoughts exacly! Making scene for Escape made me realize once more how important is ability to work with light, materials and stuff like decals. I would love to dig in deeper into environment research, not just model another pile of assets. Cause even draft geometry looks cool with good light and materials, but the best model ever would look terrible without light/materials done right.
Remember if any of you were working in a job doing this, you'd have little choice over the concept :L so I think while you have the freedom to choose what you want to do, may as well make the most of it.
Fair play if people don't like the concept or if they believe it's over done but I haven't been taking the characters in to consideration on any monthly concept thread. Don't get why it has become the focus this time on this particular image.
Been plenty of cool environments with lots of characters in, but don't overlook the qualities of the environment as the focus of a learning exercise.
I think that both of the 2 popular concepts are good for different learning outcomes.
In other words, in that piece of concept art the characters are the star, not the environment. My concern is that building a functional scene that was meant to support a character driven narrative isn't going to hold the same appeal for people as building something where the geometry looks amazeballs.
That's why.
And yes, sometimes on a real job you have to build that sort of thing. But nobody wants to build boring crap when they're at home and can build whatever they like.
I agree with everything Warren just said.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the reason it's become the focus with this one because when you take the characters away you're left with practically nothing.
It's a fantastic painting, don't get me wrong, but there is nothing visually unique about that scene when you take away the character driven story. And to top it off, there is zero modeling--it's all rectangles. Yeah, I realize modeling is only a single part of gameart and there are plenty of other challenges, but I'm not really keen to spend a month working on a portfolio piece that doesn't showcase any modeling skills whatsoever.
Compared to the other scene for example... IMO, that environment alone tells a story. Just my opinion of course!
Anyway, I think the other one has more votes anyway.... I counted 15 appearances for the one with the fans, 9 appearances for the other one. I'm not really sure whether they were all votes or not.
About things I like about this concept:
I see simple geometry - It will take less time for dull process wich is making content(Well It`s cool, but It probably won`t push my skills any further).
And assets I can do any day, I don`t really need to make whole scene for It.
But here I see a lot of details, my brain begins to work - I start to think how would I orginize texture space and materials to make this scene look awesome, yet to be very light in memory terms. Would I use decals, or material blend, or both. How to make backgroud, I see cool materials like water and polyethylene. There`s so much garbage, would be cool to make It look all unique but mapped on 128 texture)) Basically It challenges me more as an environment artist, not just props modeller. Also I would probaply use something like big projector lamps on tripod stands instead of 2 characters on the bridge and one in the front and make an evening scene... or something like that
I just wanted to say something in defence of art piece that I really like, nothing more )
Every concept here Is awesome in It`s own way, so It doesn`t matter wich one wins
But I just think we should take baby steps, and pick something really small and simple that allows for people to spend time on 1 or 2 things rather than the previous month which was quite complicated actually.
Something simple, that we can finish in the month. Like the little house built into the hill I posted, that'd be quick and easy. I also think we should not focus on EVERY SINGLE piece in the scene as then it gets quite a heavy work load, we need to remember that most environments in games these days are worked on by many people.
TL'DR I'd like an environment to do where i can at least finish the geometry before even worrying about lighting and "telling a story"
Haha, well I definitely didn't mean to say that it's boring crap, but I admit I was being a little unfair :poly136:.
I think some of it comes down to personal taste preferences up to a point.... I wonder if Alex has ever considered choosing two environments for a single month? Maybe it would encourage a wider range of people to participate, because they'd be more likely to see a concept that they want to work on.
I agree that it would be fairly bland without 'the stars'. It's all pretty simple and beige really...
No need for the 'That's why'. I get your input just fine when you explain your point, thank you for it.
Great to receive help from an artist in your position.
One day to go
While devoid of the actors will loose it's emotional value doesn't that then become our job as an environment artist to tell the story with the scene and the state it is in? Take this and make it yours, make it have emotions, get inspiration. Those types of studies I'd say are as important as becoming more proficient technically. If this is what you guys want that is how I'd approach it.
You can use the textures to tell the story, bloodstains etc. Leaflets on the floor that could be about the world the environment is in etc
I actually want to do that one now
As messed up as it sounds you could look at a lot of holocaust pictures, they don't need bodies to show what happened, and even if you made a characters who were dead depending on how far from the camera they are you could get away with something subpar at a distance to still add to the feel. Maybe some slumped bodies behind the curtain, hell I've used black figures on a alpha plane before because I'm no character artist, but it helps add to the story from far away. Make it have a dark story with real world undertones and influences.
Think about the feelings certain images in the scene that invoke feelings and accentuate the feelings those bring out. For example gates and walls can mean a lot of things, the fact there are bars you can use to symbolize being trapped, the barbed wire, the barriers, this isn't a place that you want to be unless you're in control of it. You could literally play with this scene so much.
A good thing I would try is to set up a mood board, this is somethig I've learned to do at work (even thought I don't do game art there) it's a great thing. (Moodboard)
Watch a movie or something too, sometimes the best ideas happen whe you are not trying.
I think that if someone was into zombies this would work too.
Honestly making a human brain would be easy to model, it doesnt even have to look great, make a really meh polymodeled human, it can even be super lanky and look malnurished, then make a quick sculpt, model some super basic clothes (like super basic) pose your model and then do a cloth sim. You could get 2-3 different people in a day if you worked fast.
Just my thoughts.
http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/20100000/28-Weeks-Later-28-weeks-later-20161572-1400-929.jpg
http://onlyhdwallpapers.com/wallpaper/28_weeks_later_desktop_2002x1250_hd-wallpaper-630460.jpg
http://endthelie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/birkenau-fence.jpg
You are 100% correct. When I voted for it earlier, I didn't even realize how much harder this scene would be to sell without the actors. (which I wasn't planning on using) Now that you've pointed it out, I want to do it even more. Just to prove to myself that I can do it.
Nope, i believe that our job as environment artists is to do an environment. You do a house for a project, the level designer knows what is going on around that house and the level artist does his will and takes your house and places there everything is needed to have a complete scene.
Anyway, you just can't take away the characters there without changing the art and that is ok for the challenge, but saying that you can replace the characters with ... whatever to help tell a story... well, that won't work. You CAN however replace the characters as composition elements and replace them with some other composition elements and you get an environment with missing characters.
So i think that as an environment artist you can provide the background where a story can then develop and not the story itself.
Cheers!
I don't think it was meant that an environment can tell an actual plot, but it can definitely provide some background story and kick off the imagination of the viewer. You can tell a lot of mini stories alone through placement of assets. Let's say there's a working bench with a half finished peace of work, a spilled cup of coffee and a chair that's been knocked over. You'll imediately think of someone working there and then leaving in a hurry, and see little movies in your head of what might have happend there. And if there are some blood stains and a bloody wrench you may see movies of a fight, and the worker beeing kidnapped. I think that's the kind of story we as environment artists can tell even without characters
My vote
It seems clear this will be the concept,I'll make the thread a day early to give you guys some extra time:)
The learning focuses that Manticora raised are all things that I personally would love to work on.
I'm sure a lot of the Noob level participants would agree.
That was the approach that I was planning. I was going to add other elements to tell the story of what had already happened there.
To me the other leading concept is a collection of random props all drawn with the same style. It is also a good painting that lays out a definite design and style, that will also be good education for developing a production work flow for props and decals.
I would rather have the creative freedom that the city scene allows for.