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Monthly Noob Challenge 7 (Join in!)

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  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    Ok been working on this one way longer than I would like but It's finally starting to resolve. I found out that unique bark is a lot easier to paint than tile able bark. Gonna do a version with vines as well.

    um4j4Or.jpg
    HrwfbLx.jpg

    @justinslick,
    That ground is looking quite tasty I must say:thumbup:
  • Manticora
    Razielim:

    I'm glad I could help!

    ---

    I finally found some time to make some progress, and blocked in the terrain. I will go into detail as soon as I have finished at least the basic ground textures.

    Today, I've started with the path texture. Diffuse and specular are only blocked in, and I've got some obvious normal map tiling issues, but that will have to wait until tomorrow. Vertex painting is obviously for testing purposes only, and nothing final ;)

    ground_01_zbrush.png

    the_wall_02.png
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    @Manticora: Nice job !!! Very very cool
  • joshschmitt
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    joshschmitt polycounter lvl 11
    I have a question for you guys, did you use BSP brushes for the walls or did you model them out? I am not sure which route would be the best for a real game so to speak.
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    You can go either way, You could BSP em, then export to your package, model off of them in maya or max, or you could model in maya or max first. The thing about using BSP is it reinforces using the grid :) The good thing about bsp is what you see is what you get no surprises, the trick is don't let your 3d app's fov be different than UDK. Btw. are you talking about just blocking out? If so BSP is fine. But for final assets static meshes are the way to go. Definitely! You don't want to start trying any kind of modeling with BSP... no no no. That's straight from my instructor..not me :)
  • Arkhars
    Pretty busy week for me, so not a lot of update.

    But I manage to get the grass done today, for what I think...

    First time making grass so I need comment, does it look okay, do I need to improve some stuff etc...

    grasstexturer.png


    grassc.jpg
  • joshschmitt
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    joshschmitt polycounter lvl 11
    You can go either way, You could BSP em, then export to your package, model off of them in maya or max, or you could model in maya or max first. The thing about using BSP is it reinforces using the grid :) The good thing about bsp is what you see is what you get no surprises, the trick is don't let your 3d app's fov be different than UDK. Btw. are you talking about just blocking out? If so BSP is fine. But for final assets static meshes are the way to go. Definitely! You don't want to start trying any kind of modeling with BSP... no no no. That's straight from my instructor..not me :)

    I was talking about final meshes. I know valve uses bsp in their games a lot and I know other games use it too but just wondering which was the preferred method.

    Thank you.
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 12
    Oh My GOD. Where do I even start !
    It's so interesting to see everything slowly coming together. I have no idea what's even going on O o'

    I'm a character modeler. Old school box-modeler, to be precise. But I wanna try environment. I know I can build the towers and the arc and the wall. But what's the difference between character and an environment piece ? How should the polygon count be ? Any float? How many texture map am I allowed ? and the terrain ? tile system ? big texture sheets ?

    An overview of the process would be awesome. I know I can look up each individual part on my own, but what's the big picture here, guys ?
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    :@Arkhas, I think it's on the right track but the tips are looking abit washed out too me .I don't think you need that much gradation in value from the base to the tip of the blades. Otherwise a fine job for a first go. How's my bark looking to you btw? :poly121 Thanks

    @joshschmitt, sorry about that, should have known it was the final asset. The rule of thumb is BSP is fine for simple surfaces so long as you don't try and do too much in edit geometry mode. BTW could I get a critique on my bark texture :poly121

    @PyrZern It's all good bro, don't get overwhelmed, all of those questions will be answered as you work. Just start blocking out the scene with simple geo the rest will unfold as you work. Get started :)
  • joshschmitt
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    joshschmitt polycounter lvl 11
    @joshschmitt, sorry about that, should have known it was the final asset. The rule of thumb is BSP is fine for simple surfaces so long as you don't try and do too much in edit geometry mode. BTW could I get a critique on my bark texture :poly121

    Yeah np, thanks.

    I think your bark needs some more color variation to it and it would look even better. Also you probably already seen it but the seam there.

    Edit, also maybe desaturate it a little bit, seems too reddish.
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 12

    @PyrZern It's all good bro, don't get overwhelmed, all of those questions will be answered as you work. Just start blocking out the scene with simple geo the rest will unfold as you work. Get started :)


    Alright then! Here's I come. Was blocking this out and testing to see if it's similar to the concept art or not.
    (Testing in Maya, btw) . Now I gotta go learn how to import this in Cryengine, and how to set it up.
    01-3.jpg
    image_1357150489.jpg


    Oh, and this is my layout, in case anyone wonders. xD
    011.jpg
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    @joshscmitt: Thanks man, yeah it needed desaturation, color variation, and I worked on that a bit (but it still needs more)added some vines with thorns. The idea is to have vines protecting the trees
    have to work on cleaning it up adding some little clovers and fixing some tiling/stretching issues but this is going to be my final tree texture as I gotta move forward.

    w5a0rUR.jpg
    0RysYIM.jpg
  • joshschmitt
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    joshschmitt polycounter lvl 11
    @joshscmitt: Thanks man, yeah it needed desaturation, color variation, and I worked on that a bit (but it still needs more)added some vines with thorns. The idea is to have vines protecting the trees
    have to work on cleaning it up adding some little clovers and fixing some tiling/stretching issues but this is going to be my final tree texture as I gotta move forward.

    You plan on using 1 texture for the bark? Protected by veins so you could use a separate texture and use planes for the veins so you can keep the original texture for another tree for instance in a real studio.
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    Joshschmitt, Whew!!! ( Sweat, sweat,) I'm glad I didn't merge my layers, never thought about that. Thank you very much:)
    Also I think I will have actual vines to accompany the texture that way it will break the silhouette.
  • joshschmitt
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    joshschmitt polycounter lvl 11
    Joshschmitt, Whew!!! ( Sweat, sweat,) I'm glad I didn't merge my layers, never thought about that. Thank you very much:)
    Also I think I will have actual vines to accompany the texture that way it will break the silhouette.

    Not a problem, here to help those in need. I do believe the veins are a little excessive, I think a smaller version of them around the trees would be better, since you are doing a plane version of them you can make a 256/256 texture and make it tileable both ways then scale on the plane.
  • Arkhars
    @poopsterspappy : Thanks for the advice, I think you are right I need to rework my base color for the grass, by changing the color of my gradient.
    The grass look to much like dry grass for the moment.
    Concerning your bark, you already received all the advice I was thinking, your texture is great just be careful of the seams, and maybe reduce the amount or the scale of the veins.
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 12
    Cryengine Editor crashed before it could open. Dunno why. Posted question about it on CryDev. Will work on importing assets later.
  • Arkhars
    @PyrZem : If you use Windows 8 64bits, try to use this fix : http://ce3sdk.wikia.com/wiki/CryEngine_3_SDK that help me getting work CryEngine 3 on my computer.
  • Baron Flame
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    Baron Flame polycounter lvl 12
    So I finally caved in and decided to join in. I may not be able to do a lot, considering I am learning it all again but something is better than nothing and hopefully my full time night job won't become another hurdle.
    Objectives:-
    1. Getting familiar and used to Max(I knew Maya but I just got back from a 10 month long 3D exile)
    2. Stop running away from texturing and unwrapping.
    3. Learn the basics of CryEngine3.
    4. Learn the basics of Zbrush.
    5. Learn to finally use a pen tablet(I've had this thing for quite some time now, dunno why I waited till now to do this).
  • Shiv
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    Shiv polycounter lvl 15
    Well, just finished uni and kind of feeling a bit lost. Time to start a new environment.

    I want to work more efficiently in environment creation, mostly improving texture usage... and never done foliage before, still :o

    Also about time I learnt cryengine :)

    Heres my texture breakdown, going to blockout.

    Texture_Breakdown.png
  • Arkhars
    Quick update of my grass texture.

    newgrass.jpg
  • Animesh
    Here are my first painted asset. My workflow is Maya blockout and UV > Export lp mesh to Zbrush and paint/normal map using Spotlight, Apply maps to lp mesh in Maya. (No Baking) I find this workflow works best for me. I tried photoshop but Zbrush seems to paint easier for me and there is no seem matching required, just paint over them.

    Anyway here is the result so far.
    archTest_01.png
    Please critique, it's how I learn :)
  • Animesh
    PyrZern wrote: »
    Oh My GOD. Where do I even start !
    It's so interesting to see everything slowly coming together. I have no idea what's even going on O o'

    I'm a character modeler. Old school box-modeler, to be precise. But I wanna try environment. I know I can build the towers and the arc and the wall. But what's the difference between character and an environment piece ? How should the polygon count be ? Any float? How many texture map am I allowed ? and the terrain ? tile system ? big texture sheets ?

    An overview of the process would be awesome. I know I can look up each individual part on my own, but what's the big picture here, guys ?


    The major difference between asset/environment modeling and character modeling is lower amount of polygons and that the model does not have to connect to be one mesh. There is no rigging required and no weight painting so the polygons do not have to connect. It is important to avoid faces with more than 4 verts because it will mess up the UVs and wont texture as nicely.
  • shosh
    PyrZern wrote: »
    But what's the difference between character and an environment piece ? How should the polygon count be ? Any float? How many texture map am I allowed ? and the terrain ? tile system ? big texture sheets ?

    The differences that i see are these :

    a. You have to think your UV layout before starting the uv's on your model, you have to see if you can get all the stuff you have into your desired texture and you have to then think what will be unique and what not. There were a lot of times when i first made the texture then did the unwrapping and maping because the texture budget was more important than the poly count.
    b. The poly count and texture size i think you can do the same reasoning as for character creation : how far is the asset seen, what kind of game is the asset for and so on. A good advice i can give for the texture/maping part is to always have a pixels/meter value and unwrap your assets based on that value. I believe that a 256px/m or a 512px/m are good/very good values for a FPS
    c. You can have intersecting geometry and for the rest of your questions i do believe that knowing what you want to achieve will give you the best poly and texture budget limits.

    Geometry : every vertex counts, if it doesn't, delete or move to count
    Texture/Maping : Think where the player or viewer will focus and take extra care
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for all the helps guys. Really appreciate a lot.
  • airage
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    airage polycounter lvl 13
    akira - I'm sorry to hear that, this really sucks!

    I did some work on the terrain and started the walkway texture, going for a semi real look that feels a little bit "painterly". Let's see if this will work out!

    walkway_rmgameart.jpg

    mnc_07_03rmgameart.jpg

    (Yes, still placeholder trees/foliage from the sdk :poly122: )

    Sorry I have to keep this short, I'm going to write more in the next post!
  • Baron Flame
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    Baron Flame polycounter lvl 12
    Quick question guys
    Does it go from
    Color Breakdown->Engine Blockout->3Ds Max Blockout? :?
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    @airarge, Just looked at your website..... DAMMMMMNNNNNN!!!! Can I get a critique you sir are bad ass and those stones ae lovely:)
  • JustinSlick
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    JustinSlick polycounter lvl 6
    Quick question guys
    Does it go from
    Color Breakdown->Engine Blockout->3Ds Max Blockout? :?

    I think it's personal preference! But since the geo in this scene is so simple it's probably worth it to do a bsp block out in-engine before you go to max. That way you know you'll have an FOV that you're happy with.

    I did it the other way around this time, but for future projects I'd probably do it in the order that you posted just so there aren't any surprises in UDK/Cry.
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    Really not satisfied with my bark texture at all, so I'm doing another one. I think this is an improvement. Critiques por favor :poly121:

    SEgNtIO.jpg
    DZHkwy9.jpg
  • joshschmitt
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    joshschmitt polycounter lvl 11
    Really not satisfied with my bark texture at all, so I'm doing another one. I think this is an improvement. Critiques por favor :poly121:

    I really like this texture, the only problem I see that could happen is you have blue highlights near the edges but I would assume you are going to normal map this and make a spec map so it would look a little weird.

    Just make the normal/spec and import to see if any texture issues occur with the lighting.
  • mjay85
    Still some great stuff coming along here.

    @Airage, that lighting is excellent! Lots of atmosphere. I can't wait to see everything textured.

    @poopsterpappy, the texture is definitely looking nice. I agree with what joshschmitt said about the blue highlights. In addition, I think the green areas stand out quite a bit. With that, it makes the tiling more noticeable. I think one way around that would be to have the green appear in more areas, and perhaps lighten the value. It's going to look great with a normal and spec map.

    I've been working on textures and whatnot for the whole scene. I'd like to match the lighting in the reference as best as possible, so unfortunately, most of the gate is lost in shadow. Here's a screenshot for texture detail.
    gate_asset.jpg

    I'm not sure how I feel about the concrete borders. Maybe they're too light? What do you think? The spear things on top definitely need some texturing attention.
  • sipher3325
    Going hand painted for this one.

    wipimage01.jpg

    wipimage03.jpg

    wipimage02.jpg
  • joshschmitt
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    joshschmitt polycounter lvl 11
    mjay85 wrote: »
    Still some great stuff coming along here.

    @Airage, that lighting is excellent! Lots of atmosphere. I can't wait to see everything textured.

    @poopsterpappy, the texture is definitely looking nice. I agree with what joshschmitt said about the blue highlights. In addition, I think the green areas stand out quite a bit. With that, it makes the tiling more noticeable. I think one way around that would be to have the green appear in more areas, and perhaps lighten the value. It's going to look great with a normal and spec map.

    I've been working on textures and whatnot for the whole scene. I'd like to match the lighting in the reference as best as possible, so unfortunately, most of the gate is lost in shadow. Here's a screenshot for texture detail.

    I'm not sure how I feel about the concrete borders. Maybe they're too light? What do you think? The spear things on top definitely need some texturing attention.

    What did you do to create the damage on the side of the gate with the bricks, I was trying to do the same... Took it into zbrush and shit, maybe I dont have geo there for it to work. Was just baking it down. My model already has 1k tris and for the gate but no damaging sides.
  • mjay85
    What did you do to create the damage on the side of the gate with the bricks, I was trying to do the same... Took it into zbrush and shit, maybe I dont have geo there for it to work. Was just baking it down. My model already has 1k tris and for the gate but no damaging sides.

    I sculpted two tiling textures in zbrush. One of the bricks undamaged, and one with damage. I'm using a vertex blend shader to paint the destruction onto the model with vertex painting. It's really helpful for breaking up the tiling pattern.

    @sipher3325 - beautiful textures! The tree looks great.
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    @Arkhas Much improvement to your grass texture :)

    @ Animesh Just an observation but your spec color is taking on the color of your diffuse texture, a dielectric material. I could be wrong so double check,
    if your asset right now is being lit by a neutral light then your secular highlights should be neutral but they are the color of your surface making it feel a bit metallic.

    Here's a link to a great paper that demystified the phenomenon to me
    http://www.3dtotal.com/tutorial/texturing_and_lighting/brief_consideration_about_materials/brief_consideration_about_materials_01.php

    @joshscmitt and mjay85: agreed on all points, thanks guys b.t.w mjay that's looking very nice indeed

    @sipher3325: really like your bark texture
  • Manticora
    @ poopsterspappy:

    Thanks a lot!!!

    I like both versions of your bark texture, but the newer one seems to tile a lot better, and it's good that the bark is aligned vertically now. But I agree that the blue lights might look a little weird in the final scene ;)

    @ airage:

    That's looking awesome so far! Depending on what you want to achieve, I would maybe change the colours of your path texture, at the moment it's looking like cracked earth a little (but I like that look, too).

    @ mjay85:

    Cool textures so far, I love those plants growing on your gate! I don't think that the concrete is too bright, but maybe it's a little to rough? In case you haven't noticed yet, the normals on the lower right side of the "inner gate" seem to be inverted.

    @ sipher3325:

    Great trees!!! I love that cartoony look :)

    ---

    I finally did all the UV layouts and AO bakes yesterday, so there wasn't much to show. Today I did a really quick ground texture that doesn't look too good and tiles very obviously, but I guess it could work once the foliage is placed. I also defined the terrain a little more, added the water and some temporary shaders, and played around with the lighting. We will see if I still like it tomorrow ;) So here's my current result:

    the_wall_03.png
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    Hey Guys,

    So I was scratching my head thinking of ways to hand paint arched patterns and this is what I figured out let me know if there are other more efficient ways to hand paint 'em without resorting to ZBrush or Maya.




    Also,


    http://www.3dtotal.com/tutorial/texturing_and_lighting/brief_consideration_about_materials/brief_consideration_about_materials_01.php
  • joshschmitt
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    joshschmitt polycounter lvl 11
    mjay85 wrote: »
    I sculpted two tiling textures in zbrush. One of the bricks undamaged, and one with damage. I'm using a vertex blend shader to paint the destruction onto the model with vertex painting. It's really helpful for breaking up the tiling pattern.

    @sipher3325 - beautiful textures! The tree looks great.

    You vertex paint in an engine or you do it in max?

    Nevermind, I found some documentation that shows me how to do it.

    Could you post both textures and workflow for the bricks/damaged bricks?

    Also using blendlayer, the one I tried sort of just blended from the edges where I didnt want it to blend from.
  • cpullma1
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    cpullma1 polycounter lvl 5
    Hey everyone! I am having a lot of fun on this challenge. Here is what I have so far.

    noobChallenge_buildv01.jpg

    mainGateTextured_pic04.jpg

    mainGateTextured_pic05.jpg

    mainGateTextured_pic06.jpg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nmns7xah5eE
  • foxter888
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    foxter888 polycounter lvl 5
    so far many nice images, i'm still new here. so i'm probably going to try joining this one when the next one starts
  • mjay85
    @Manticora - Thanks! I knew something was up with that column thing!

    @joshschmitt - Yea, vertex painting in engine.

    Here's the textures:
    brick_textures.jpg
    The textures were all made in z-brush. I actually learned a lot from this forum. Here's a link to some great tutorials:

    http://wiki.polycount.com/EnvironmentSculpting

    I'm not sure what kind of shader you are using to do the blending. I'm using Unity and after a bit of searching, found a guy who put together a really nice blend shader. I added a few simple things to it (like spec control and multiplied "dirt"). There is no blend layer control. Essentially whatever is white, is one texture, and whatever is black, is the other. THe gray areas are determined by the height map (which I also exported from zbrush). Using a height map plus a control for how much the height map influences the blend allows you to have the blend follow the shape of the texture. A clearer example might be if I had a snow texture and a rocky ground. The height map would cause the snow to blend first in the cracks, then over the rocks. Does that make sense?

    If you are using UDK, check out this guy's youtube channel
    [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?
    v=Xnc1SKGbvmM&list=UU1M4Kz9VRuZiIPi_KL0k3wQ&index=27"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnc1SKGbvmM&list=UU1M4Kz9VRuZiIPi_KL0k3wQ&index=27[/URL]
    Really makes me want to learn shader writing!!

    Let me know if this makes sense, and if you have more questions, feel free to ask!
  • Zerogun
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    Zerogun polycounter lvl 9
    Dropped stuff into UDK to see how it lays out. The brick texture is a place holder as it's obviously tileable. And since I've basically redone all my work so far I'll probably just get to work on the garden this week and pop that out.
    8739691866_5eb165d215_z.jpg
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 14
    This is so great to see!

    I REALLY feel that I need to raise a warning flag here. I've said it before and will say it again.

    More and more often I see people taking zgrabs from zbrush with highlights, shadows, depth and color baked in to one texture - diffuse. You need to work with diffuse, specular, gloss and normal to bring you textures to life. Your diffuse will look PIMP if you look at it. It looks rendered, cause it IS! That's something the engine should do for you. The result is NOT as good as if you would have done this the right way.

    A lot of studios is moving towards a physically correct shader setup. This means moving away from pre-baked AO in your diffuse and handling specular and gloss pretty different. A zbrush rendered diffuse does not show me as an employer that you can work with the shaders correctly.

    I know that Naughty Dog leaves some highlights and shadows in there textures, but that has to speak for them. That highlight is used as sand and what not though, and is not as strong as I regularly see..

    Just my two cents :)
  • JustinSlick
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    JustinSlick polycounter lvl 6
    I ditched the stylized version of the pine tree that I posted initially since it really doesn't fit in with the rest of my textures.

    This took me frakking foreeeever, but I think I can get quite a bit of variation out of it just by playing with different trunks and adding/deleting a few branches. I'm not completely happy with it yet... I think i wanna do a "dead branch" texture tomorrow and try to add another layer of fullness.

    If anyone has any crits I'd be happy to hear!

    Also, is there a better way than making these things by hand?

    I looked at the Speedtree modeler that ships with UDK and and it seems really good for branches, but I don't know if I like the way it places leaves (they all seem to be camera facing billboards??? Then again, I don't really know what I"m doing) I dunno, it just seems crazy inefficient to do it by hand, but I guess once you have one finished it's a lot faster to kitbash some variations.

    NoobChallenge7_WIP_06.jpg
  • Razielim
    @airage I like your texture. looks so realistic in the render pic.
    @sipher Your trees are great. nice style.
    @Manticora I like the light in your scene and your path. good work.

    I think i should recreate my textures ^^.
  • sipher3325
    @JustinSlick Doing it by hand is slow but once you get a base then you can just tweak it and have a new tree. Plus speedtree won't let you export as obj unless you own a licence so you're limited to what you can do in speedtree. Doing it by hand you can then do some cool vertex painting and i've even used the foliage tool to paint fungus/mushrooms onto trees. Your's is looking good but i'd like to see it in engine.
  • JustinSlick
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    JustinSlick polycounter lvl 6
    sipher3325 wrote: »
    @JustinSlick Doing it by hand is slow but once you get a base then you can just tweak it and have a new tree. Plus speedtree won't let you export as obj unless you own a licence so you're limited to what you can do in speedtree. Doing it by hand you can then do some cool vertex painting and i've even used the foliage tool to paint fungus/mushrooms onto trees. Your's is looking good but i'd like to see it in engine.

    Cool! I figured SpeedTree had limitations. I'm gonna do another pass on it tonight and then I'll get it in-engine.

    Your tree looks awesome.... the textures and proportions are great!
  • Baron Flame
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    Baron Flame polycounter lvl 12
    I think it's personal preference! But since the geo in this scene is so simple it's probably worth it to do a bsp block out in-engine before you go to max. That way you know you'll have an FOV that you're happy with.

    I did it the other way around this time, but for future projects I'd probably do it in the order that you posted just so there aren't any surprises in UDK/Cry.

    Thanks. I thought it would be better to get the in-Engine blockout done first for the very same reason, but then again I was just guessing xD. Glad to know that I was right to some extent.
    sipher3325 wrote: »
    wipimage01.jpg

    :poly101:


    Btw can anyone point me to a video or a tutorial of an in-Engine blockout. I am following these CryEngine3 tuts from eat 3D but I have no idea when he shows how to blockout the scene.
  • poopsterspappy
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    poopsterspappy polycounter lvl 7
    @JustinSlick . This Friday my instructor is showing us his way of doing trees and swears once we do it his way we won't want to do it any other way so I'm quite optimistic. I will post the process saturday am to the best of my ability. I feel your pain man I've been UV'ing all day. The bright side is I listened to a whole 4 hours of Dragonlance Chronicles on audible :) BTW Your tree looks very good the only thing is on the top part of the leaves I think you need to break the sillouhette.

    @joshschmitt Hey, I just wanted to thank you for you previous input. I think I forgot to last time, as well could you send me a link to that vertex painting in Max document if possible?

    @mjay85: Your brick diffuse is looking quite good, I could be wrong but the shadows that are popping are going to be problematic so watch out they are going to mess up your tileability, Really good work :)
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