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[Mixamo Contest] Necromancer

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  • mix
    wow..your sculpt details are insaaaane!! lol can't wait to see your final output :D
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Wow so many details on the zbrush sculpt, out of curiosity, how many polygons in zbrush?
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks for the supports guys ( and girl ^^ ).

    Tits : this version is 28Mil total points. I always avoid to subdivide if I can stay in Dynamesh, so only some subtools are subdivided and really heavy ( the mask/hat for example is a single piece with 7Mil points. )

    Well, I talked with rOmy last day and he convinced me to rework the sculpt a bit to improve some things and get better details from the cavity, to avoid having to paint everything manually.

    I don't really change the shapes so I won't need to redo the lowpoly ( I do hope ), but I think I will redo the UV's, the staff ( I have another idea, less boring ), and delete the spellbook ( I could use this tris in the staff or do something else, I'll see ).

    New screens soon.

    For the colors, I think that I will go for reddish/pink/purple, maybe mixed with silver or gold. I'll try to do something subtle and less saturated ^^.

    Back to work now !
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Ish! You got one hell of a nice computer, over 22 million my computer cannot save zbrush files anymore :D
  • lotet
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    lotet hero character
    sounds awezome dude! your really pushing it, I like!
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    I think that the most important thing for ZBrush is the amount of RAM, I bought 8gigs of Corsair XMS3 ( 1600 mhz I think, CAS 7 ), it works really well. 4gigs are not enough for heavy work.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Haha I though that too, but actually Zbrush is still a 32 bits application, so it takes only 4 gig or RAM maximum at the moment (Yup I updated my ram 1 month ago and then I learned that after) Apparently it has everything to do with the graphic card :( (as surprising as it is, that's what the IT at work told me!)
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Since I installed 8gigs I can work with heavier subtools and decimation master can decimate subtolls with more than 13Mil points. With 4GB it crashed when I try to decimate a subtool with more than 8Mil ^^. Maybe it's limited to 4GB but it can't hurt to have more. I often use Zbrush, Max and Photoshop or Xnormals in the same time.

    But there is also some tweaking to do in the zbrush preference, maybe it could help you ( maxpolypermesh and that kind of thing ). I think there is a thread for this somewhere on Polycount.

    PS : oh, and here is a little pic with some changes :

    Necro17.jpg

    - removed the "organic" parts on the mask/hat
    - added transition sbetween metal and horns
    - metallic parts are sharper
    - added scratches
    - reworked the skull on the chest
    - reworked the corrupted skin and extended corruption to the neck, ear and face ( asymetricaly ).
    - removed the borders on the pauldrons clothing to make it loose.
    - replaced the strange "leather" texture of the clothes by wires ( on the gloves and dress too ).
    - reworked the skull back of the head ( separating metal and horns ).

    I need to rework all the "claws" everywhere, and the knee pads. I think I will broke one the big horn on the helmet too.
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    Oh really :S that's weird since I upgraded to 8 I didn't see any difference for decimation or anything like that, still crash often enough. Will sure try to look around polycount. Anyway sorry for bringing the conversation away from your character,
    amazing work!
    I was just impressed by the amount of details and was really curious about the amount of polygones since I often get to put less details not to make my zbrush crash haha!
    Anyway, awesome work!!
  • TigerGD
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    TigerGD polycounter lvl 9
    If you've got lots of other programs eating up your memory in a 64bit OS, adding more RAM will help even the 32bit ones. It's like how having additional cores/threads to handle background tasks and programs improves the performance of single-threaded stuff.

    I love the skin colors in 1, and the red and amber tones in 3. You're losing a lot of detail in your normal bakes at this res, so I think you should keep the more intricate areas lighter, to accentuate the detail with high contrast AO.

    For the staff, you can extend the corruption theme, and have the shape twist and conform around where she'd grip it.
  • JR
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    JR polycounter lvl 15
    The amount of details on this model is madness, man, very cool. I hope someday I can work on pieces like this.

    I vote for the green color scheme. Good job!
  • Moogart
    woooww!!! this is awesome!!
    @__@
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks for all the kind words ^^.

    I finished to reworked the highpoly, and as I removed the book and optimized the mesh a bit more, I can put 2000 tris on the staff.

    First I thought to put a lantern on her side to replace the book, but then I thought to do the staff with the lantern. So, here are some quick concept. I will do some other ones :

    Necro18.jpg

    I like the second one, but it doesn't fit with the character, the wood is too natural and my girl looks really sophisticated, I don't really see her with a simple tree branch. So I tried to keep the things I already have on the character : horns and metal.

    I'll try to do a better skull version, this one sucks ^^.

    Watcha think ?
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Some other attempts, still not happy. And not sure I can make them with 2000 tris.

    Necro19.jpg
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    And the last attempts. I think I'll go for the last one, it fit the character better.

    Necro20.jpg
  • lotet
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    lotet hero character
    last one looks great, but I REAALLY like the second one of the first set.
  • nechnechmo
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    nechnechmo polycounter lvl 6
    I agree with Lotet!
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Yeah I know everybody like tortured wooden staves ^^. But it really doesn't fit with the character.

    I did some changes on my concept and here is the sculpt, took me the whole day.

    Necro21.jpg

    I think I'm done with it, I have to move on if I want to finish everything in time...

    EDIT : Oh, and here is the new sculpt for the character with new skin, new "hat", new pauldrons, dress, gloves, kneepads and boots... I had to separate everything in various files because it was too heavy and too long to save ^^.

    Necro22.jpg
  • jeebs
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    jeebs polycounter lvl 11
    so much detail, looks awesome, but it's possible to make it too much, be careful with that and good luck.
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks Jeebs.

    Finally... I did the skull ont the staff again ( don't like the previous one and it was too heavy ). And the uv's... and the baking...

    BUT I think that this time it's good. Well at least in Marmoset everything looks always good, I love this program, don't regret the 50 bucks ( and it just updated in 1.06 for free ).

    14 999 tris. Hell ya !

    Screen :

    Necro23.jpg

    Will start the texturing tomorrow...
  • jeebs
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    jeebs polycounter lvl 11
  • lotet
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    lotet hero character
    turned out pretty frking sweet, new staff looks great!
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Still in progress but here is a textured version. Not everybody will like it and time is running out ( I have school work to do for August 21 too... ), but I want to finish it.

    I need to do a spec map and rework some colors and the skin.

    Necro24.jpg
  • JR
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    JR polycounter lvl 15
    It's looking great by now :)
  • Mightymike
    Very very nice work! thumbs up!
  • lotet
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    lotet hero character
    looks sweet as hell, you could probably work on your values a bit though, turn it black n white and see if theres stuff with similar value and break up those shapes.
  • Dan!
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    Dan! polycounter lvl 6
    looking great!
  • Gemstigma
    very nice details and silhouette..like the hair how it is done... :)
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks guys.

    Gem : well in fact I did'nt textured the hair, it's all done by the AO/Cavity/Bent and the normal map.

    lotet : in fact that's what I did at the beginning, I did a grayscale map before ading the colors to have good values, but then, some colors didn't look good if they are too dark or bright so I had to change. Finding the good values is really a hard work.

    Here I added the spec and some lights, the skin is brighter and the clothes darker. I'll do the posing and maybe some ground if I got the time...

    Necro25.jpg
  • TigerGD
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    TigerGD polycounter lvl 9
    Since you have some strong highlights and AO in your diffuse, the spec is looking very uniform, and not conveying the full detail of your baked normals. Can you submit a turnaround vid for the comp (or at least for us to enjoy)?
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    I don't know how to do a good spec map, it always looks bad. I try to boost it in Marmoset, but even the black parts of the map become shiny, I don't understand...

    I don't have the time to do a turnaround now but here is the map... pretty dark, but even with a dark gray everything looks wet and I don't like that; Any tip could be really usefull ^^ :

    Necro26.jpg
  • JR
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    JR polycounter lvl 15
    In Marmoset, you can use the alpha channel of your specular map to control glossiness. So, you can control what materials have sharp specular lights and what not.

    About how to generate a proper specular, I don't know if you already read this, but it's an amazing article about the issue.

    http://www.manufato.com/?p=902
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Wow thanks man, it will be really usefull. I think we had a course on this kind of stuff but it was really scientific with lots of formulas and stuff, we never really learned how to do this... what a school... ^^
  • TigerGD
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    TigerGD polycounter lvl 9
    I'm certainly no expert, so it'd difficult for me to offer advice.

    Most noticeably on your jewels, you've got directional highlights, which defeats the purpose of having specular maps in a realtime-lit engine. You may want to apply a bit of your AO for the recessed parts that shouldn't receive as much light, and only put highlights on parts you want to suggest are more polished to "catch" more light, like on corners and edges. Especially on metal, your spec map should look flat, except on those raised edges and corners that would receive a little more polish.
  • Tioxic
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Yeah Tiger I will change some things.

    I spent some time ( 4-5 hours I think ) with the rigging and skinning in Max with CAT. I never used this before, we only work with Maya for anim at school, but I really wanted to see that in max. It's pretty simple in fact but still boring ^^. An simply creating the bones for the dress and pauldrons ( I separated them from the body, was easier to work ) was a real pain...

    So, if somebody skilled in max rigging come here, maybe he could help me... because here is what I have :

    Necro27.jpg

    It's a bit difficult to do a pose with all these boxes, even if I make them transparent with alt+x...

    Also, if someone has a good pose idea ^^. Lemme know.

    I will continue my punkbot...
  • JR
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    JR polycounter lvl 15
    I don't use Max, so I can't help you. But dont´t you think easier and faster do your final pose in Zbrush?
  • TigerGD
  • lotet
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    lotet hero character
    you can right click on the bones/boxes and click on "object properties" and then click the check box "display as box".
  • JR
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    JR polycounter lvl 15
    No more progress, dude?
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    I will, I will ^^. I spent the last days doing a work for school, rigging and animating a robot, and as the deadline was expanded I thought I had the time to do some touch-ups on the diffuse ( adding some dirt and variations on the leather ), re-do the spec and add a quick pedestal.

    EDIT : OK I read the tutorial on the spec but it looks that Marmoset doesn't calculate it well. In the tuto they said that dielectric materials don't affect the spec color, so to neutralize it we need to inverse the diffuse color.

    That's what I did on the "glass" ( as the ball on the head ) and the leather for example. But The spec color is not the color of the lamp, like it should be, but the color of the spec, so the inverse color of the diffuse.

    Here are some pics. I boosted the spec to show what I mean :

    - I inversed the purple leather to have a green spec, looks green ( but the spec color should be neutralized and take the lamp color ) :

    spec01.jpg

    - the eyes are green, the inverse color is purple/pink, the spec color is pink too ( spec is not boosted on this one to show you it's not the boost which sucks ):

    spec02.jpg

    - here I did a test, I desaturated the spec of the ball, and it looks good :

    spec03.jpg

    So, did I something wrong or Marmoset's specular just doens't work as the tutorial says ?

    EDIT : I also have some weird issue with the shading, when I activate the spec, we can see some quads :

    spec04.jpg
  • Thousand
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    Thousand polycounter lvl 9
    amazing model! it looks like rigging wouldn´t be too easy with this one ;)

    one thng about marmoset and spec maps; one trick for skin spec maps is to apply a grain filter in photoshop; give it a try!

    would love to see a pose!
  • JR
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    JR polycounter lvl 15
    Man, I made a quick test in MT and everything looks fine. I guess you have to check those things I maked in red on the picture. Lowering specular intensity and sharpness and maybe rising fresnel valeu can reduce the way reflections will be applied on the surface. Pay special attention too to the lighting sources. Changing ambient light and the power of point lights will give you better or worse results.

    Specular_marmoset.jpg
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks for the "display as box" Lotet, it really helps ^^.

    Amauri, something must be wrong. Well, I don't see the spec color with a small intensity value, but if I raise up a bit, the clothes become green, no matter what I do if the spec is green.

    I use the blue sky ambiance with a pointlight in spotlight mode for the "sun".

    I will try with a simple sphere.
  • Stiffler
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    Stiffler polycounter lvl 6
    About the pose.....have you tried using the Transpose Master plugin for Zbrush? It simply lets you pose multiple subtools simultaneously, using the lo-res mesh, the re-divides to the hi-res when finished posing.[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKYY47o-pzk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKYY47o-pzk[/ame]
    I just discovered it, and has helped immensely. It's a little ram intensive, but is a lot easier than than rigging.
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 8
    Yes I tried that, but I don't like it. I mean, it's impossible to move the hips in a sexy pose, with the legs following the move, the feet standing on the ground with an IK and all the stuff. A rigging in Max is automated with CAT, the skinning take some time but it's not really hard, I prefer that way ^^. And Human IK do it well in Maya.

    I'll try the ZSphere rig one day ^^.
  • Stiffler
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    Stiffler polycounter lvl 6
    Yeah, to get any good hip rotations, you have to re-position the whole figure, to compensate, and plant the legs later
    Haven't tried the zsphere method yet or max's rigging system, but the box influence looks cool too.
    Actually i use Mixamo a lot for autorigging. If you can get your lo-poly down below 10,000 tris, an auto rig is free, then add influence to all the extra objects you need. There is even a script to add controls curves, and ik/fk legs and arms......it takes literally about 15 minutes to rig with control curves.
  • Goeddy
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    Goeddy greentooth
    dude marmoset doesnt give a shit about the color of your spec map. it takes all the color from the diffuse und the cubemap. the only way to tint it is the the little box called specular color, but it doesnt take maps.

    marmoset calculates specular not like most other game engines, depending on the lightsource.
    instead the specular value controlls how strong the environment is being reflected.
    the fresnel does what a fresnel does, only applied to the reflections.
    and the sharpnes controlls how strong the cubemap is blurred.

    so no use in fiddling around with the specular colors...
  • Tits
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    Tits mod
    You sure about this? I've been using marmoset and I could clearly see the purple-bluish tint that I put in the specular of my skin!
  • Goeddy
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    Goeddy greentooth
    well the color does have some sort of effect. but as soon as you change any of the specular settings from the default values they tend to not be visible at all.
    when i want the spec tinted in marmoset i usualy detatch the object and then tint the spec in marmoset.
    way more controllable effect imo
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