They would seriously make you leave like that? If so it dosnt seem right. I would think they would give you a day to collect your things. I personally have not worked for large corporations, but instead many family atmosphere type jobs so I have no experience on the matter.
the draconian dismissal thing is pretty much standard for any office-like job.
in addition to stopping people from flipping out and getting revenge/breaking shit, it also keeps you from gathering any evidence in case you try to sue for wrongful termination, etc.
when I lost my job from a hospital lab my supervisor packed up my belongings and sent them to HR, also they sent me home for 2 weeks without pay while they "reviewed" my case.
everybody's just hating on the big studios now eh... i've worked at both and byyyyy farrrrrr favor working at big studios to small ones. Too many ridiculous horror stories at the small ones to count.
Pros / Cons of Big studios:
-Awesome pay
-An actual functional / existent hr department so that the bosses know what "ridiculous" behavior towards their employees is
-There's almost always going to be severance pay or 2 weeks pay or some type of pay when you get laid off
-No financial bullshit like "oh whoops we can't pay you for those last 3 weeks"
-Not all the time but usually the big studios have more people with more experience
-better projects (depends on what you like of course)
-better funded projects - usually better games
-they usually look better on your resume (my opinion)
-in most of the big game studios I've worked at the individual teams are pretty tight knit (everybody knows eachother), but there is usually people that have been friends for years and years at the smaller ones.
Big studios usually seem to have their shit together alot more (again my opinion). At the same time, the smaller ones can be fucking awesome too.
It's interesting to hear peoples previous experiences. Sorry to hear those stories but glad to hear so many came out on top.
I wish those who get the pink slip the best and hope you land back on your feet soon.
It always seems there is a large amount of lay offs when several big games release. A few months later they have a new project and start hiring again for that.
Wait I'm confused here... I mean can you actually be thrown out over night without a warning?
I'm not sure how you guys over the pond do this, but I'm sure over here there are laws to make sure you know it a month in advance or atleast early enough.
They just pay you for the month/fortnight Seirei and let you go on the spot. And honestly i don't see how to do it otherwise? if you know your being laid off it would be pretty uncomfortable coming in after that point, especially if it wasn't the whole office being let go.
Yes you can be laid off on the spot. Just like you can quit on the spot. That's the upside/downside of "at will" employment. The standard practice is to give 2 weeks when you quit, and companies usually pay 2 weeks severance, more if you've worked there longer. This is for full time employment, if you are contract/temporary you have pretty much no protections.
Usually you are not allowed to publicly show any work that is under NDA unless you are giving permission and/or it has been showed publicly. The reason everyone advocates backing up your work is because if you are laid off suddenly, and your employer doesn't let you back in to get your work (as people in the thread have demonstrated from experience), you'll have current work that you can show potential employers, instead of whatever you had 2 years ago.
That doesn't mean you can post it to your website where Kotaku will pick it up and probably destroy your career, but companies that aren't total dicks won't go after you for taking a flashdrive to an interview to privately show your work to an art director, or putting the work on a password protected private site that you only show an art director you are interviewing with. That said, you are still taking a risk depending on the situation, so you have to make a judgment call.
I've not even found a job and I keep seeing stuff like this
Ha! Yea me too. I got the bright idea to quit my small studio job to pursue a AAA studio. Alot of good that is doing me with news like this every other week...
crap, how everybody is backing up their work and scouting for some new work. Such a harsh industry =/. I've had friends who had been on 1 week vacations coming back to the office and noticed that they were the only ones there, then when they realized what happened they got escorted out by security.
crap, how everybody is backing up their work and scouting for some new work. Such a harsh industry =/. I've had friends who had been on 1 week vacations coming back to the office and noticed that they were the only ones there, then when they realized what happened they got escorted out by security.
It's scary.
I've experienced something like that, just heading off to vacation and then getting a call about work not existing anymore.
They just pay you for the month/fortnight Seirei and let you go on the spot. And honestly i don't see how to do it otherwise? if you know your being laid off it would be pretty uncomfortable coming in after that point, especially if it wasn't the whole office being let go.
Looks like we germans are just too stuck up into bureaucracy, because as far as I'm aware you have to be noted atleast 1 month in advance or if you want to quit you have to notify your employer in advance too.
That's why I was wondering, we have laws to protect people against this kind of behavior and it just seems fairer to get a reasonable amount of time to start and find a new job.
I've experienced something like that, just heading off to vacation and then getting a call about work not existing anymore.
We did have to come in to work for two weeks or so. That was a pretty surreal time, everyone was backing stuff up like crazy and working on their portfolios.
I'd imagine this would differ a lot from country to country. USA seems to have almost no protection for employees.
Guy's I've just heard: Polycount's gone under. Your all fired form the internet. Please bring your computers to Polycount's Antartic HQ for incineration.
Guy's I've just heard: Polycount's gone under. Your all fired form the internet. Please bring your computers to Polycount's Antartic HQ for incineration.
crap i havent backed up any of the work ive done on polycount for years...oh wait...
We did have to come in to work for two weeks or so. That was a pretty surreal time, everyone was backing stuff up like crazy and working on their portfolios.
I'd imagine this would differ a lot from country to country. USA seems to have almost no protection for employees.
Yeah I know, pretty good situation compared to other places since we were able to get our stuff together.
EA Vancouver from what I was told by someone that used to work there.
Yup. A buddy worked at EA blackbox a few years ago, and he told me he plugged in his ipod just to charge, and within 10 seconds the tech guy called him telling him not to do that. He didnt know he wasnt allowed, or that they monitored it. So, chances are if you work for EA, unless you`ve been told they don't by your supervisors, they probably do.
well EA mythic was completely different i guess, i used my phone and storage all the time there, even had a portable HD .. large one i kept plugged in with all my music and stuff on,. hell if we wanted to do some work at home over the weekend, we could pack up our work computer and take it home.
Looks like we germans are just too stuck up into bureaucracy, because as far as I'm aware you have to be noted atleast 1 month in advance or if you want to quit you have to notify your employer in advance too.
That's why I was wondering, we have laws to protect people against this kind of behavior and it just seems fairer to get a reasonable amount of time to start and find a new job.
The WARN act says that a company of 100+ workers is having mass layoffs (50 percent or more), the employees have to be given 60 days notice or paid those 60 days if no notice is given.
Now I don't believe it counts EA as the company since it's about 10% of it's work force, it's counted at the studio level because I got covered by the WARN act the last time EA laid off 10%.
the draconian dismissal thing is pretty much standard for any office-like job.
in addition to stopping people from flipping out and getting revenge/breaking shit, it also keeps you from gathering any evidence in case you try to sue for wrongful termination, etc.
when I lost my job from a hospital lab my supervisor packed up my belongings and sent them to HR, also they sent me home for 2 weeks without pay while they "reviewed" my case.
Ha. Sounds like a job I once lost. They gave me 2 days to "review" me. At least they paid me while I was "on leave".Hee hee.
EA responded to our inquiry with the following statement,
“EA is growing and looking to hire hundreds of people for our digital, console, mobile and social games. Like all game companies, we make occasional adjustments to resize teams as projects are completed and new priorities are established. Overall, we expect that headcount will be up at the end of this year.”
This reply strikes a hopeful tone, but isn’t nearly as definitive in quashing the murmurings as this quote published on MCV earlier today,
“There are no lay-offs as such, we always have projects growing and morphing. At any given time there are new people coming in and others leaving. EA is growing and hiring and building teams to support the growing demand for digital games and services.”
It's really lame, but I gotta agree with Jesse. Back it up. When I was at Disney a few years ago we had an all hands meeting just so they could "calm our nerves and assure us there will be no layoffs" after rumors started. A month later, big layoffs.
Save your work and keep everything updated. Though I seriously hope this isn't true.
This is exactly whhat happened to us at vigil. They "promised" that we were safe THQ that is. lol
a massive corperation lies to the public and its employees?
STOP THE PRESSES!
i feel for all you guys, i really do.
but Justin, any WAR dev could have logged into ANY of the servers within the first 3-6 months of launch and understood what was going to happen to the subscription base, and therefor the development team.
the same can be said of SWTOR now as well, with Bioware both misleading (and in some cases outright lieing to) the playerbase, removing content so early in the game, and cancelling upcoming highly anticipated patch features 6 hours before the patch is due to go live...
that said, i'm fairly certain that the root cause of the issues with both WAR and SWTOR are down to EA management, and not the studios themselves. so again, i feel for everyone involved. but at the same time, just log in and read general chat at any point, and you'll understand why WAR went downhill, and why it looks like SWTOR will likely follow. (hint: developers doing the exact opposite of what was asked).
My biggest concern with EA is their lack of focus on product line. They do so many games but none of them that well. They should seriously consider stream-lining and focus on fewer higher quality titles. They have exceptions, obviously, but for the most part it's true.
Looks like we germans are just too stuck up into bureaucracy, because as far as I'm aware you have to be noted atleast 1 month in advance or if you want to quit you have to notify your employer in advance too.
That's why I was wondering, we have laws to protect people against this kind of behavior and it just seems fairer to get a reasonable amount of time to start and find a new job.
Yeah we have labour protection laws here in Australia, which funtion in a similar way to what Justin points out "the employees have to be given 60 days notice or paid those 60 days if no notice is given."
Or the studios that monitor and log all of your keystrokes. Personal emails and msn conversations? logged, banking info, personal family conversations, everything logged and followed in real time by your manager if they want. This was a big publisher as well (not EA).
So...they shouldn't publish sweet games like Bulletstorm and Shadows of the Damned?
Both of those games scored pretty low and that's my point. It isn't so much that they shouldn't have published them as they should have picked and focused on fewer, which would have resulted in better games due to more focus for each. Quality over quantity.
Sony is realizing this now after losing 6 billion dollars and is focusing on less. Apple has known this for years. It's something IMO EA could learn from.
Both of those games scored pretty low and that's my point. It isn't so much that they shouldn't have published them as they should have picked and focused on fewer, which would have resulted in better games due to more focus for each. Quality over quantity.
Sony is realizing this now after losing 6 billion dollars and is focusing on less. Apple has known this for years. It's something IMO EA could learn from.
I agree with this statement, even though games like Shadow of the Damned might be good ( never played it or had any interest in it) they dont really scream money in the bank.
even though it hurts me to say it the Medal of honors and battlefields of the world make money nowadays also shitty facebook and mobile games.
EA has always done a good job of adapting and they make a good chunk of change off there more casual games nowadays.
hopefully they start making more quality triple-A games that fit into the mainstream mindset and get back on there feet so they dont need to cut more jobs!
Gir: you know devs dont play their own games, hate their customers and prefer the opposite faction than you play.
i knew that was coming... and i know it's not true. i was on the WAR core tester team, i still talk to some of the guys at mythic, and i know the lament they face with what they want to achieve vs what they're told to develop.
but that still shows part of the core problem: the people making the real decisions were/are out of touch with the playerbase, the guys making the game probably knew it, but what could they do, right? i guess this is pretty common in the industry in general, MMO's in particular.
it wasn't a jab at you in particular, sorry if it came off that way.
Replies
Depends on the place. But it can happen
in addition to stopping people from flipping out and getting revenge/breaking shit, it also keeps you from gathering any evidence in case you try to sue for wrongful termination, etc.
when I lost my job from a hospital lab my supervisor packed up my belongings and sent them to HR, also they sent me home for 2 weeks without pay while they "reviewed" my case.
On this note, this doesn't exist at EA Redwood Shores. Just to clear that information.
hah, I was about to say "sounds like a EA Redwood sort of setup"
THQ thought people were expendable like this too...hmm their doing well these days.
EA Vancouver from what I was told by someone that used to work there.
Sad you have to act like James Bond but do what you gotta do...
just be sure to tie the end of the condom securely.
LOL
Pros / Cons of Big studios:
-Awesome pay
-An actual functional / existent hr department so that the bosses know what "ridiculous" behavior towards their employees is
-There's almost always going to be severance pay or 2 weeks pay or some type of pay when you get laid off
-No financial bullshit like "oh whoops we can't pay you for those last 3 weeks"
-Not all the time but usually the big studios have more people with more experience
-better projects (depends on what you like of course)
-better funded projects - usually better games
-they usually look better on your resume (my opinion)
-in most of the big game studios I've worked at the individual teams are pretty tight knit (everybody knows eachother), but there is usually people that have been friends for years and years at the smaller ones.
Big studios usually seem to have their shit together alot more (again my opinion). At the same time, the smaller ones can be fucking awesome too.
I wish those who get the pink slip the best and hope you land back on your feet soon.
It always seems there is a large amount of lay offs when several big games release. A few months later they have a new project and start hiring again for that.
I wonder if it will ever change?
I'm not sure how you guys over the pond do this, but I'm sure over here there are laws to make sure you know it a month in advance or atleast early enough.
Just curious.
Usually you are not allowed to publicly show any work that is under NDA unless you are giving permission and/or it has been showed publicly. The reason everyone advocates backing up your work is because if you are laid off suddenly, and your employer doesn't let you back in to get your work (as people in the thread have demonstrated from experience), you'll have current work that you can show potential employers, instead of whatever you had 2 years ago.
That doesn't mean you can post it to your website where Kotaku will pick it up and probably destroy your career, but companies that aren't total dicks won't go after you for taking a flashdrive to an interview to privately show your work to an art director, or putting the work on a password protected private site that you only show an art director you are interviewing with. That said, you are still taking a risk depending on the situation, so you have to make a judgment call.
Ha! Yea me too. I got the bright idea to quit my small studio job to pursue a AAA studio. Alot of good that is doing me with news like this every other week...
It's scary.
I've experienced something like that, just heading off to vacation and then getting a call about work not existing anymore.
Looks like we germans are just too stuck up into bureaucracy, because as far as I'm aware you have to be noted atleast 1 month in advance or if you want to quit you have to notify your employer in advance too.
That's why I was wondering, we have laws to protect people against this kind of behavior and it just seems fairer to get a reasonable amount of time to start and find a new job.
I'd imagine this would differ a lot from country to country. USA seems to have almost no protection for employees.
Never have truer words been said.
Trust me, people still get the axe in here. You're not safe anywhere man, so you gotta be smart and work hard.
crap i havent backed up any of the work ive done on polycount for years...oh wait...
Yeah I know, pretty good situation compared to other places since we were able to get our stuff together.
Strangest days those were.
Yup. A buddy worked at EA blackbox a few years ago, and he told me he plugged in his ipod just to charge, and within 10 seconds the tech guy called him telling him not to do that. He didnt know he wasnt allowed, or that they monitored it. So, chances are if you work for EA, unless you`ve been told they don't by your supervisors, they probably do.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAT. This has blown my mind.
The WARN act says that a company of 100+ workers is having mass layoffs (50 percent or more), the employees have to be given 60 days notice or paid those 60 days if no notice is given.
Now I don't believe it counts EA as the company since it's about 10% of it's work force, it's counted at the studio level because I got covered by the WARN act the last time EA laid off 10%.
Ha. Sounds like a job I once lost. They gave me 2 days to "review" me. At least they paid me while I was "on leave".Hee hee.
Depends on your contract, but usually big companies like EA might have a severance package.
This is exactly whhat happened to us at vigil. They "promised" that we were safe THQ that is. lol
same with Mythic, they said we had sustainable subs and we weren't going to be effected by upcoming layoffs.
STOP THE PRESSES!
i feel for all you guys, i really do.
but Justin, any WAR dev could have logged into ANY of the servers within the first 3-6 months of launch and understood what was going to happen to the subscription base, and therefor the development team.
the same can be said of SWTOR now as well, with Bioware both misleading (and in some cases outright lieing to) the playerbase, removing content so early in the game, and cancelling upcoming highly anticipated patch features 6 hours before the patch is due to go live...
that said, i'm fairly certain that the root cause of the issues with both WAR and SWTOR are down to EA management, and not the studios themselves. so again, i feel for everyone involved. but at the same time, just log in and read general chat at any point, and you'll understand why WAR went downhill, and why it looks like SWTOR will likely follow. (hint: developers doing the exact opposite of what was asked).
/endrant.
Yeah we have labour protection laws here in Australia, which funtion in a similar way to what Justin points out "the employees have to be given 60 days notice or paid those 60 days if no notice is given."
Or the studios that monitor and log all of your keystrokes. Personal emails and msn conversations? logged, banking info, personal family conversations, everything logged and followed in real time by your manager if they want. This was a big publisher as well (not EA).
EA are pretty generous with their redundancy packages, more than the bare minimum required by law from what I have seen.
Both of those games scored pretty low and that's my point. It isn't so much that they shouldn't have published them as they should have picked and focused on fewer, which would have resulted in better games due to more focus for each. Quality over quantity.
Sony is realizing this now after losing 6 billion dollars and is focusing on less. Apple has known this for years. It's something IMO EA could learn from.
I agree with this statement, even though games like Shadow of the Damned might be good ( never played it or had any interest in it) they dont really scream money in the bank.
even though it hurts me to say it the Medal of honors and battlefields of the world make money nowadays also shitty facebook and mobile games.
EA has always done a good job of adapting and they make a good chunk of change off there more casual games nowadays.
hopefully they start making more quality triple-A games that fit into the mainstream mindset and get back on there feet so they dont need to cut more jobs!
i knew that was coming... and i know it's not true. i was on the WAR core tester team, i still talk to some of the guys at mythic, and i know the lament they face with what they want to achieve vs what they're told to develop.
but that still shows part of the core problem: the people making the real decisions were/are out of touch with the playerbase, the guys making the game probably knew it, but what could they do, right? i guess this is pretty common in the industry in general, MMO's in particular.
it wasn't a jab at you in particular, sorry if it came off that way.