The Ramifications of not learning Sculpting Programs?
I have been studying how to model things for at least 6 years, I do all my modeling in 3Ds Max. Max is a program I know very well and I would rather not change all though I'm sure I could to similar programs. But Zbrush and Mudbox are completely different tools, I figured because I do not model organic things too much like Characters that I can just ignore them and continue to fine tune my skills in Max.
My question though, if I continue to go down this path of learning 3D modeling and art by not learning how to use Zbrush/Mudbox, will I never succeed as a game artist?
My question though, if I continue to go down this path of learning 3D modeling and art by not learning how to use Zbrush/Mudbox, will I never succeed as a game artist?
Replies
Why wouldn't you want to be curious about these programs anyways ? Mudbox takes about an hour to learn.
Sculptris is free and it has similar navigation to ZBrush. You can get a good feel for sculpting using it, and probably learn a lot about form in a way that you wouldn't with poly modeling. You say you do hard-surfaces but why wouldn't you want to be able to do organics?
Worth noting though that resisting new things isn't a very good philosophy for improving.
Sculpting programs are most definitely useful for an environment artist. Don't knock it 'till you try it.
I'd strongly recommend at least becoming familiar with how a sculpting program works in a pipeline.
Because it is a long road to learn, I understand the use of it but as Artist teams get bigger and bigger I just thought that there can be specialized artists for Characters and ones for Environments?
Well you know my environments I really meant things like "Buildings, weapons, props, vehicles, etc.." Would it still be useful?
Watch some tutorials, try the demos, see for yourself. The programs are fun to play with and nice to have around
So don't worry as much about the program as the actual artistic skills required.
Ideally, you should be interested in all that anyway and have fun trying out all the new cool stuff.
It sounds like you don't want to take the time to learn it because you think it'll take too long. I had the exact same attitude with traditional art, now I'm kicking myself because of it and starting self teaching the basics recently. Trust me, start now so you won't regret not starting sooner.
the darksiders2 contest is a good example why you should at least know the basics of sculpting
it's best to know th basics of everything so you can decide per asset or project what approach is best to accomplish the result you want.
so you really should know the basic of zbrush or mudbox, and maybe even know how to get some stuff from ndo2
I think a lot of film/FX studios still have no need for Zbrush.
Most of what I use Zbrush for is doing fine-detailing organic surfaces. I know quite a few other artists who work in a similar way.
In the end it's a tool like any other tool. You should learn it, and use it for what you need it for.
there is no need to be afraid of the software, mudbox or sculptris are even easier.
the hardest part is the sculpting itself, but it is also the most fun part of this job
I hope you don't mind that I added you from your public MSN, I had some questions about this statement.
Too many people here rely too much on zbrush that they forget what good topology is when making their lowpoly.
zbrush and mudbox won't make you a better artist, but they won't hurt you either..
I have learned how to model and master 3DS Max as well as I can. I can make the most basic model for a game with the fewest polygons as clean as it can possible get, or an extremely complex model that is very clean than UV map and texture it; I can even do some basic animations if needed.
There are many applications for it when dealing with 'current' pipelines. Meaning stuff that's normal mapped and all that.
I haven't touched a sculpting package since going to a company that handpaints everything. (and I don't miss sculpting either)
Well what do you do than if I may ask?
You know it just seems like these Sculpting programs are really geared for Character Art; which is great if you are that kind of Artist but I don't do characters, I can try Zbrush sure but I don't see how a super super detailed high poly version of my models helps for game development other than Normal Map Creation?
You would use it to sculpt things like terrain, rocks, vines, craters, damage, etc. Making environments / props / guns is much more than just hard surface modeling.
Say you have something similar to the leaked Doom 4 environments. Something like a building with a giant tentacle torn through it. You would use zbrush to sculpt out the damage and tentacle.
Character artists aren't the only ones that do 'organic' work.
You can also use the software to help you visualize something in 3D. For the lowpoly mutant league challenge, I used mudbox to quickly go in and push a sphere into a shape for my mutant's head. I didn't do any more work than that, but it was enough to take it back into max and build my low mesh to those proportions.
Sculpting tools are much more than high detail. You can use them to texture too. 3DCoat has an amazing set of texturing tools that you really can't do in photoshop. At least not as easily.
It seems like you're contesting anyone who isn't telling you what you want to hear; and trying to retrieve more information from anyone who mildly supports the idea that requires the least amount of work.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90110
The sooner you get 'sculpting = organic = character only' out of your head the better.
I never said organic meant character only but every example that keeps popping up shows nothing but characters, go look on the gaming section of the Zbrush site.
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and all kinds of texture projections.
There are just certain types of details that I find a lot harder to make in a 3d program than in a sculpting program.
For environments a workflow could be like this... model trash can in max or maya -> dent it up and maybe add some grungy layering -> retopo in max or maya or a retopo program -> bake maps.
Honestly if your wondering if you should use it or not, why not just trying learning it, if you say you know how to use your modeling app well enough that you don't think you need a sculpting program, than you have no real loss from learning how to use a sculpting program and find out for yourself if there are ways that you can use it to improve your models and speed up your workflow.
that's because people usually find characters more interesting to look at than environment objects.
There's no such thing as enough. Everyone else here knows this. I'm learned this recently.
In fact I'm building a creature that's completely geometric and not organic or soft, I have rudimentary zbrush skills but I'm building it using traditional poly-pushing in max just like you and me are comfortable with. But I already know that I could have made it even better if I had more sculpting knowledge, even for (especially for) hard-surface models.
I'm going to be happy with what I made, but it is never going to be enough.
By the time you are done telling us that you don't want to use them, you could have downloaded the demos and gotten used to both Z and Mud. By now you most likely would have seen how useful these programs could be - by actually trying them.
Exactly. Resistance to learning new things is probably one of the last things you want in this field. No one will tell you what you know is enough, if that's what you want to hear, you could always know more and the more you know the better perspective you have.
You say you do hard-surface, but if you want normal map details that describe the form of what you are making, and not just layered on as textured detail, then you are probably going to need a high poly bake.
If you were, for example, making wood stairs, you would notice that most wood stairs have a worn bevel to them, something which is optimal to do in a sculpting program.
http://www.alecmoody.com/8/4.jpg
These types of hard-surface details make the form convincing, and they are very easy to do in a sculpting program.
And using character/Organic modeling as a reason not too
Why not think about using it for sculpting environment related assets and Not even considering organics! Tharz a thought!
Its not that you wont succeed by NOT learning either of the 2 its just that you'd be better off learning one of the two, its fun faster and most people who use them get godly results from there practices.
Saying that environment artist don't need to know a sculpting program kinda shocks me especially when looking forward, outside environments tend to be quite organic, also even if it isn't organic it's great for damage and different kind of deformations to metal and such, nothing is rarely 100% straight or flat.
I was recently at about 20 interviews in Japan, and many of them asked how well I know zbrush and If i could teach how to get it into a Environment creation workflow to fellow artists, so looks like it's not such a bad thing to know.
I dont want to be a dick here but that is just a ridiculous statement. There are always new things to learn and master in any software package. You should never feel you have mastered something as well as you can or you will never push yourself and challenge yourself to become better. You will just remain content with what you think you have mastered and become stagnant and things will pass you by.
Not to mention judging by your work you are very far from mastering the capability's of Max. You still have a lot to learn and improve on so dont think you have mastered Max or you wont grow or learn new things!
For now thought I would suggest working on becoming more proficient in Max before trying to also learn sculpting programs. You dont want to overwhelm yourself with trying to become a better modeler, texturer and trying to add sculptor onto of that.
Sculpting is a tool, like Max is a tool. You dont have to learn or use it but it is a great tool to have in your arsenal. If you dont want to learn it, dont.
An artist with just a pencil can get by fine, but you just have to realize you will run into artists who use a pencil and a paintbrush, and they will be your competition for a job.