Old Stone Fountain

ageless · Jan 2012

Hello To All Lovely Polycounters,

You guys are the best!!

Here, i tried to make this Old Stone fountain Game Asset.It's 2700 Tris and uses 2048X2048 Color map and normal map and very generic spec map.My Inspiration being stone fountain being used in games like Prince of Persia and game which i recently played Assassin Creed brotherhood.

Currently, I am a sort of stuck with it on how to improve it further and add more detail to it.How to make it more interesting...would love to have your opinions on it...

much thanks in advance.

Cheers!!

Snader · Jan 2012

Bigger circle, more sides. Smaller circle, less sides.

S_ource · Jan 2012

Well breking things usally add intrest and detail,:) i made a fountain kinda like this ones and did break it alot.
And just adding random dirt and for places it should be is good way for adding detail for exampel your fountain "pool" looks werry clean for being used for water. Also adding nature stuff like moss is good then you get some more colour intrest.

ageless · Feb 2012

@Snader - Thanks for your advice.That poly flow was really cool.Going to update my low poly meshflow now....

@S_ource - Hey man...really interesting.Actually, i was so engrossed in formulating the design of my fountain that i forgot to add these kind of damages to my prop.Your prop is looking really interesting.Inspired!!

So since there is problem with my mesh flow and as well as basic shape...(damages and all)...i am planning to build it again.Counting on you guys to help and guide me like this.Much appreciate it.

Update will be up soon.Cheers!!

Donavonyoung · Feb 2012

I think the modularity approach you went with was a great start. Sometimes it is far easier to have a perfect something, then destroy it. It can really help to bring out the realism. Keep up the hard work mate, and grab lots of reference.

ageless · Feb 2012

@Donavonyoung - Thanks..

Here is the update i did...went ahead and damaged the walls of my fountain and the base of my middle column.IMO, not too much of damage will be in middle column itself...cuz of it's position.What do you guys think, please do tell me...

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Waiting for your valued critics and comments...working on it's new lowpoly meshflow now..

Cheers..

S_ource · Feb 2012

Looks better but i would suggest to make the edges where its borken more uneven and also on one broken place its verry straight lines where its broken try google on broken concrete or something, intrested to see how your textures will look like.

Alberto Rdrgz · Feb 2012

that's an unnatural looking break or fracture in the stone. I think instead of stone it's looking like Styrofoam.

ageless · Feb 2012

@Alberto Rdrgz - I am reworking it bro..be sure to check out my updates.Hope my next update will be better.

ageless · Feb 2012

Here i tried to again redo my base...is it coming along??...

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pseudoBug · Feb 2012

The relief on the blocks is very pixelated and blocky, especially compared with the detail on the fountain itself.

I'd rework that. The outer wall portion would be seen closer up than the middle.

ageless · Feb 2012

@pseudoBug - Hello there!!

Yes, you are right.It's because of the fact that the alpha which i am using for outer walls is of lower resolution than alpha which i am using in the middle column.Furthermore, when i have baked it in my previous tries(you can see the image at the top of this thread)...one really can't distinguish between the two parts.

Also, i googled extensively for some nice high Res tileable alpha but was left high and dry

Do you know of any other way in which i can improve the quality of this releif??..

S_ource · Feb 2012

have you tryed Zbrush site? http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/downloadcenter/alpha/

pseudoBug · Feb 2012

Personally, I'd probably try to sculpt my own pattern, and make a heightmap from that.

Or, you could simply go in and clean it up, giving extra detail and character to it as well. The base shapes are already there. Might be too much work given the amount it tiles. . .

No real suggestions for finding patterns, the zbrush alphas might have something.

ageless · Feb 2012

@S_ource - thanks bro...checking it now.Hope it has some cool alpha's.

@pseudoBug - yes..if i manually go along creating and rectifying my relief, on my outer walls it will be quite tiresome.Having a clean high-res alpha to work from seems the best deal.

ageless · Feb 2012

So i converted my alpha in photoshop to high-res but when i am applying the same in zbrush over my asset using projection master, things are getting screwed up again.

I have described the problem in detail in the attached image.

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Please help!!!...on how can i get a crisp result over my curved asset?

I have used Stencil too, but getting the same blocky/pixelated result as we move away from center.Used Normalised option too in projection master but still getting the same result.Any help would be appreciated...

thanks in advance.

Rhinokey · Feb 2012

looks like you need more geo in the high to get that much detail, smooth it a cuple more times..

ageless · Feb 2012

@Rhinokey - Hey There...it's 1.572 mil polygons...Furthermore, we can clearly see things are coming quite sharp and crisp in the middle with the current subdiv level.As we move away from center the quality starts to deteorate.

Gannon · Feb 2012

Can we see your poly frame at a low subdiv? I feel like this is a topology issue or the program might just need to be re-opened?

ageless · Feb 2012

@Gannon - Here it is...

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Alberto Rdrgz · Feb 2012

why not just take a simple box and then do the projection mapping and then do the distruction?

Twister3 · Feb 2012

What you could do is unwrap the basemesh in your favorite 3D program then extract a UV map. In Photoshop you fill everything with black (or white, doesn't really matter, because you can invert your alpha in ZBrush). Then overlay your decorative pattern over the part where they would go. You should now have a black & white texture with your pattern. In Zbrush you apply this as a mask to your unwrapped basemesh at a higher subdiv-level and either use the sculpting brushes or the various tools in the deformation palette.

Gannon · Feb 2012

I didn't realize this is a curved piece. That's most likely the issue. Straighten out the base mesh, then project, and sculpt. Once that's done, kick out the High poly and place a deformer on the mesh to give it the curve you need.

You could even out the topology a little more, those long faces aren't ideal for sculpting on but sometimes it's unavoidable.

Twister3s idea works also.

ageless · Feb 2012

Hey guys....since past few days i was struggling with 0xc000007b error and was unable to open my maya or max, searched all of the web, finally had to reformat my PC 2 times.Now finally, everything is fine up and running.So will post the updates soon...Cheers!!

@Alberto Rdrgz - Yes man..i also wanted to try that at first, but couldn't get my head around maya deformers.Will try again...

@Twister3 - This is a complete new way for me...Thanks for the TIP!!
but first will try to have a go once again with Maya deformers...if i can't get around with it, then will try this technique.Thanks again.

@Gannon - thanks bro.

Fingus · Feb 2012

Well there's yer problem. Your equidistance is very off. The reason they get all funky looking off to the side is because your faces are all stretched out in those areas. All your faces should be as square as possible, when you work at this kind of resolution it's better to think of them as pixels rather than polygons.

You should add these edgeloops.

Also when you use projection master make sure you have Normalize turned on because the piece is curved.

tristamus · Feb 2012

Hey man, I'm glad to see you sticking with it.

I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in....

There are some issues here that need to be addressed before you go any further. You have the right ambition, but I'm not sure whether you understand the purpose of things. You being focused on the slight problems with the cut in your geometry and etc isn't what you should really worry about; More so, you should try to understand what things are, how they work, and why at this stage.

When you are creating a high-poly sculpt, you're only purpose for it is to use the normals and bake a normal map from it, and possibly Ambient Occlusion etc, so that you can use it on your low-poly. I say this, because I see very LITTLE details on your sculpt, like on the edges and things, whereas the SILHOUETTE of your model is very boring.

The way to really get your normal maps working for you is to work on large details first, chunks of stuff, if you know what I mean. Like BIGGER dents, LARGE scratches, etc. Then go finer from there.

The distortion after you use projection master is because your object is curved, and you are PROJECTING a 2d image / "stencil" onto it. ZBrush is doing the best it can to PROJECT that 2d image on a curved surface for you. However, it's turning out like that for many reasons, mostly because it's a curved surface.

Also, the way Zbrush works is that when you bring in a model and subdivide it, it's taking every QUAD that's on your model already and dividing it into 4 chunks every time you press DIVIDE. Hence why the detail in your geometry here is more detailed in one spot than the others. FINGUS pointed that out well. Try to keep it in mind, that if you are going to bring geometry into zbrush, keep your topology EVENLY divided, or just add more divisions in your base model where you know you will need greater details.

As for the cut in your geometry, where you are trying to make it look broken, you must add some kind of variance to it. Nothing ever breaks that cleanly. Take a look at any real-life reference!

Alright, that's my 2 cents for the night, polycount lol...

I hope this helps you out man.

ageless · Feb 2012

Hey all problem has been solved.

My problem was, as Fingus pointed out and later tristamus too, uneven polyflow, which was causing all sorts of issue.Thanks a lot fingus.:)

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@Gannon - I also delved into maya deformers and got that workflow too but now as i am getting fine result with the curved surface already...no need to follow that workflow, atm, imo.Suggestions on this approach are most welcome.Thanks again.

@tristamus - Thanks for stopping by and giving such sound advice.:)
I totally appreciate it.

Regarding current silhouette, yes, it's sort of boring and all but i was looking to bash up my asset in zbrush heavily.Is this the right way to go about it??...or i should redesign my base in maya again??...also my inspiration for this asset came from GOW universe...they have such amazingly detailed bashed up high-poly models..i wanted to make something like that...so just went on with my stuff.

regarding the clean edge, I made that in maya i wanted to deform it using zbrush brushes once i bring my asset into this software from maya.So, that was my workflow...

please do give your suggestions, critics, or comments...

Thank you all.Please keep them coming...loving it!!

**************WANT TO MAKE THIS ASSET TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY*********

ageless · Feb 2012

I went at my base block again and given it some texture...and cracks.

C&C please...

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ageless · Mar 2012

So i went ahead, and made another asset made of stone titled "STONE STAIRS".So that i can get a better feel of wearing and tearing.Specially cracks and stuff and later will apply those stuffs to my current asset.Desperately, looking forward to your C&C....

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Really inspired by Skyrim Artwork.Lots of stone stairs in there.

Cheers.

ageless · Mar 2012

So i baked my stuff and now onto texturing phase.>>

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Twister3 · Mar 2012

Seems like the bake came out very well. Really looking forward to this!

ageless · Mar 2012

@Twister3 - thanks.

ageless · Mar 2012

Just slapped on my base texture.Also Attached my UV layout.I am quite weak in my UV layout of assets, so if you find any ways in which i can maximize my texel density by re-using my UV's or anythings as such, please do tell me.

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Thanks and cheers.

Now i am onto making this thing as dirty and filthy as possible, probably add some moss and such.

ageless · Mar 2012

So i imported my model into UDK and my normals are not coming very nicely.Specially on the stairs it seems just a flat cube...

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Any suggestions??

Twister3 · Mar 2012

Did you set the compression settings of the normal map to "TC_Normalmap" during the import?

What I do to test the normal map in UDK is to apply a material with a one parameter of 0.5 in the diffuse and the normal map in the corresponding slot. Then I test the normals with a spotlight to look for any artefacts or errors. Btw, I test this in a blank level, so that I don't get any other light than the one from my spotlight.

You can also increase the strength of the normal map in the material itself although that is not really an elegant option.

ageless · Mar 2012

@Twister3 - Sorry for my bad knowledge of UDK.I am a total noob when it comes to UDK.I just imported my model in Fbx format into the default scene which has afternoon light in it.

So when you said something about compressing normal map...sorry again to bother you, but why do we need to compress our normal map inside game engine?..why can't just import it in TGA format?

and i am currently learning how to manipulate materials within UDK...

In the meantime, my texturing is still going on strong...will update it shortly.

Thanks for your reply.

Alberto Rdrgz · Mar 2012

you could have done all the staircase textures as tiling textures, it'd be more efficient.

Twister3 · Mar 2012

ageless wrote: »

@Twister3 - Sorry for my bad knowledge of UDK.I am a total noob when it comes to UDK.I just imported my model in Fbx format into the default scene which has afternoon light in it.

So when you said something about compressing normal map...sorry again to bother you, but why do we need to compress our normal map inside game engine?..why can't just import it in TGA format?

and i am currently learning how to manipulate materials within UDK...

In the meantime, my texturing is still going on strong...will update it shortly.

Thanks for your reply.

Don't be sorry! We all were noobs of UDK at some point

Of course you import your texture in a .tga format but UDK compresses it to a more useable format for the rendering process. Don't worry, your texture remains untouched. You can even export the texture again as a .tga file in case you lose a texture or so.
I reckon the compression process is pretty common since the Unity Engine does this also.

Basically in UDK all you need to remember is to set your normal map to "TC_NormalMap" when the import window pops up. Only then does UDK register the NM correctly, otherwise the bump effect isn't really noticeable.

ageless · Mar 2012

@Alberto Rdrgz - So what i shld have done was, two Uv sets for my asset, one for normal map and one for diffuse.For normal map i should have done tiling textures for my staircase and bricks and diffuse map would have had unique color all over my textures, is that what you are saying??...haven't used tiling texture so extensively before nor more than one UV map for my assets.That's why i was so worried about my texel density and crappy UV layout.I am all for redo my Uv's and baking once again IF this approach Gives me far better results...what is your opinion on this??

ageless · Mar 2012

Here are some texturing updates on my stairs...

C&C are most welcome and any ideas on how to make this more dirty, filthy and old.

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ageless · Mar 2012

Diffuse Almost done with...

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ageless · Mar 2012

So i imported my model into the UDK...things coming out fine except some weird shading onto my stairs which were not there in maya viewport.I think these are smoothing errors...any ideas on how to eliminate such type of errors??

thanks in advance.

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Alberto Rdrgz · Mar 2012

did you make a lightmaps uv?

ageless · Mar 2012

Done with my current asset...C&C most desired. 8)

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njc6425 · Mar 2012

loving the look atm. i feel with the stairs that he side sections are too clean cut whereas the steps themselves are nice and grungy. imo

ageless · Mar 2012

@njc6425 - thanks.

ageless · Mar 2012

So i visited my old stone fountain again and found out that some parts/designs are repeating over here.So in order to maximize my texel density and have a much better normal map, i thought of re-using my UV's.

but one problem comes up if i re-use my UV's.

How can i add more variation to the texture?.

- I am thinking of using more than one UV set.One for normal and another for diffuse.I havent used two sets of UV layout before.

For this reason also i don't want to give it too damaged look now too like earlier as i want to re-use the details.

Any advice on how should i approach this artwork would be very helpful.

i have attached some WIP's on my current status for this model.

thanks.

ageless · Mar 2012

@Monica1233 - Hey there!!!

Your Images link are not working.

zakhar2 · Mar 2012

I think youre probably looking for vertex blending, which basically allows you to mix several textures based on vertex colors.

Darkleopard · Mar 2012

The designs on the fountain are beautiful. Will there be water?

ageless · Mar 2012

@Darkleopard - Thank You.I am so tempted to include water into it but i don't know man(i am a total noob for UDK)...for now lets move one step at a time.

@zakhar2 - hey there...yes i am also thinking of doing the same thing but again as i said i haven't tried all this.All this will be my first time.I am very Excited.:)

Also i wanted to do maximum things outside of UDK, in traditional programs but if i get no solutions i am keeping that option always open.

Old Stone Fountain

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