I would say learn on your own from the likes of polycount, game artisans...etc. I can personally say it is not worth it unless you are going to one of the top well known game art schools. My own experience has been horrible, I am currently attending ITT Tech and it has been a waste of my money. I'm just glad I found polycount in may and have learned more for free here since I joined than my 3 years In school.
Since you are already here take advantage of it, it will be much cheaper to buy your own software and lean it your self than to spend more money than you have at a school that just wants to push you out the door once they have your money.
My advice, get a degree from a relatively inexpensive school. This can be valuable and useful it doesn't exactly matter what it's in. But, it's a degree.
For your skills, teach yourself on site such polycount and other good tutorial sites.
If you really want a degree, get a fine art degree. It takes alot of work to be a good artist, it takes a few weeks to learn a program.
If you are in the nebulous "I want to be a programmer/designer/artist/animator" phase, spend some time to figure out what you want to do before you do anything. Getting $100k in debt just to decide what you want to do is a waste of money.
Please o' please can we get a sticky going on this topic? Not chastising the OP here, but there are countless threads on Game Art degrees. One pops up, at least, every 3 weeks, it seems.
Also, Ai has such a horrible reputation that I'm considering taking the education section off of my resume completely, as it does more harm than good.
You will get a better understanding of creating 3d art by buying some eat3d, gnomon, and 3dmotive tutorials opposed to what 90% of these game art "schools" will teach you.
For the most part, they are there to take your money.
There are some legit schools out there (the ones that are actually hard to get into).
If I were you I would try to get into a good public university and either study computer science or art.
I am finishing up at UCSD getting a degree in programming in the arts and I work as a research assistant in our Games Lab where I get to create all cool types of 3d art and program cool scripts and shaders.
IMO getting a degree and foundation in either classical art or computer programming will pay off 10x more than going to a game school.
I would be very hesitant to drop 100k on college in this economy. Be better off to buy 4k worth of Gnomon DVDs and putting 50k in gold bullion, then haunting these forums for a couple years.
personally I feel if your having trouble with self drive to learn particular aspects of art then maybe school is best. Sometimes school is more than learning in a class and can be about networking, doing things on time and working with a team. Being alone in a room doesn't do that all the time. Plus for someone like me who find 3d tutorials the most boring thing on this planet I need a class room setting or learn from work. Most of my friends in art I met in school, barely from the internet. I would say give it a try and if you do't like it then don't finish it. do what feels right. Just make sure you bust ass and you'll do fine.
I found university (uk) a really good experience, and probably some of the best times in my life so far. I learned loads and thats where I discovered 3D art. That said, the 3D modules I was doing were useless in relation to game's industry, and I've learnt much more about game art in my own time. My best advice, make sure the lecturers actually have decent experience in the industry, and ask to say the course layout and modules.
University in the UK .... awesome social life, almost exclusively terrible courses. Expect to learn more in your own time than you do on your university assignments. That is, if you're serious about making this your career. Because most of your peers at university wont be.
I wont get a degree neither ( in game art. Tells you someone who did one btw) and about getting a degree in fine arts...mmm...mmm...
yeah sure it sound good, and must be freakin awesome...but reality wise, I ll rather back myself up with something more solid. Unless you have the benjamins $$$!! its 80k in education!! Makes me think of an article I read a while ago about the overpopulation of jobless photographers getting out of school...
Dont do it, if anything spend on dvd tutorials and DO NOT SPEND ALOT OF MONEY on college if you choose it, many of us here learned our lesson. Im still paying my loans off and very little to show for it
It sounds to me like I shouldn't go to school at all if this is what I want to do. And instead, sit down and learn it myself with a regular job at the side. I'm not rich, so that's why I'm weary of going to school for this. Thank you all for the help.
It sounds to me like I shouldn't go to school at all if this is what I want to do. And instead, sit down and learn it myself with a regular job at the side. I'm not rich, so that's why I'm weary of going to school for this. Thank you all for the help.
I went to school and am now doing exactly this. Only with a large amount of debt. Save yourself the trouble.
The hardest part of self teaching is finding the motivation to keep going.
I wish that I didn't go to the game oriented school I went to. Looking back I should have continued to attend a local community college, and have a framework to be able to get a business/teaching type of degree. That way I have an option to have a better idea on how to start my own game company, or be in the right place to begin teaching for games.
Do NOT go to a school to learn how to use a tool or program. (period!)
Everything everyone has said so far seems spot on.
Personally, I attended Art Institute, which was probably the worst choice I've ever made in my entire life.
The only good choice I made was selecting an Ai that was close to where the industry was, and had the opportunity to move out to Cali, which really helped me network / break into the industry.
Other than that, it was a COMPLETE, I repeat COMPLETE waste of time. Bullshit general ed classes are full to the brim with busy work which take time away from actual portfolio work. Not to mention you are forced to take a broad selection of classes, which can be ok, but once again, takes away from your portfolio time. (Example: You want to be an environment / prop artist? You take 1 class actually devoted to environment art, but have to take a 2D animation class, a 3D animation class, a character animation class, a programming class... etc etc)
The faculty's only game art experience was on SNES and N64 games, so any material they actually taught was so outdated and sometimes even the complete opposite of what we do in the industry today. I am one of the few graduates that knows anything about high poly modeling and baking that doesn't think normal maps come from a Photoshop filter.
As they so often say, "it's what you make of it." Well, I made the most of it, by posting on Polycount and really soaking up everything I could from the ACTUAL industry pros... and it was free. Polycount taught me far more than I ever learned in school, and I can honestly say I would not be employed today had it not been for this lovely forum.
As for Ai, I graduated in March 2011. I'm just over $100,000 in debt, I am quite literally one of maybe three people that I know from our campus that broke into the game industry out of the hundred or so that I met / know, and even so, I can just barely make rent and manage to keep the loan collectors off my back, with the help of my parents.
Also it's important to note that no one cares in the slightest if you're a college graduate or not in the game industry, at least for an artist position. Some will claim, "It shows you can complete something." blah blah blah, it's utter crap. The only thing that matters is your portfolio, if it's not excellent, no one will even look at your resume. Being self taught is just as good and in my opinion even more impressive.
Also, Ai has such a horrible reputation that I'm considering taking the education section off of my resume completely, as it does more harm than good. I know of at least one company out here in CA that hired a bunch of Ai grads on, and got burned pretty badly, so now they're more or less instantly trash piled once they see you went to Ai.
So in summary, Gnomon DVDs and online courses mixed with some Polycount love is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned. Spending 100k to not get your money's worth and possibly finding out the hard way you don't have what it takes to make it is a deadly mix.
100% truth, and pretty much MY exact story as well. GL OP. Make the right decisions
Please o' please can we get a sticky going on this topic? Not chastising the OP here, but there are countless threads on Game Art degrees. One pops up, at least, every 3 weeks, it seems.
Everything everyone has said so far seems spot on.
Personally, I attended Art Institute, which was probably the worst choice I've ever made in my entire life.
The only good choice I made was selecting an Ai that was close to where the industry was, and had the opportunity to move out to Cali, which really helped me network / break into the industry.
Other than that, it was a COMPLETE, I repeat COMPLETE waste of time. Bullshit general ed classes are full to the brim with busy work which take time away from actual portfolio work. Not to mention you are forced to take a broad selection of classes, which can be ok, but once again, takes away from your portfolio time. (Example: You want to be an environment / prop artist? You take 1 class actually devoted to environment art, but have to take a 2D animation class, a 3D animation class, a character animation class, a programming class... etc etc)
The faculty's only game art experience was on SNES and N64 games, so any material they actually taught was so outdated and sometimes even the complete opposite of what we do in the industry today. I am one of the few graduates that knows anything about high poly modeling and baking that doesn't think normal maps come from a Photoshop filter.
As they so often say, "it's what you make of it." Well, I made the most of it, by posting on Polycount and really soaking up everything I could from the ACTUAL industry pros... and it was free. Polycount taught me far more than I ever learned in school, and I can honestly say I would not be employed today had it not been for this lovely forum.
As for Ai, I graduated in March 2011. I'm just over $100,000 in debt, I am quite literally one of maybe three people that I know from our campus that broke into the game industry out of the hundred or so that I met / know, and even so, I can just barely make rent and manage to keep the loan collectors off my back, with the help of my parents.
Also it's important to note that no one cares in the slightest if you're a college graduate or not in the game industry, at least for an artist position. Some will claim, "It shows you can complete something." blah blah blah, it's utter crap. The only thing that matters is your portfolio, if it's not excellent, no one will even look at your resume. Being self taught is just as good and in my opinion even more impressive.
Also, Ai has such a horrible reputation that I'm considering taking the education section off of my resume completely, as it does more harm than good. I know of at least one company out here in CA that hired a bunch of Ai grads on, and got burned pretty badly, so now they're more or less instantly trash piled once they see you went to Ai.
So in summary, Gnomon DVDs and online courses mixed with some Polycount love is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned. Spending 100k to not get your money's worth and possibly finding out the hard way you don't have what it takes to make it is a deadly mix.
qft went to ai as well. Hope the school goes down utter scam artists. Learned more in past months after school and i still dont have a job. I REALLY REALLY WISH i came on here before school and saw some of these posts.
Remember schools are out to make money they could care less about your actual education
Should you get a degree?
More than likely yes. It helps to land jobs where they are the requirement. Certain degrees also help you with visa paperwork if you're looking outside your country for work. It also helps to have a back up plan, who knows where this industry is going or if you'll want to stay in, considering you'll be working for the next 40-50years its hard to say what will happen.
Should you get a degree in game art?
Probably not. They are nearly worthless and everyone knows you're hired based on your skills as demonstrated in your portfolio. You aren't hired based on whatever paper credentials you happen to have hanging on your wall.
I'm very happy that I got my degree. Not for the degree itself but because it gave me time to get into 3D and land a job with an internship.
BUT, and I can't stress this enough, that was because going to university in Sweden is free and you get financial aid while studying. Had the situation been anything like paying huge amounts of money for it I don't know if it'd be worth it as opposed to just hunkering down with some good online subscriptions or a few books and just teaching yourself.
The money you save could be spent to support yourself during an unpaid internship.
If I get a degree at all, and I want to be an artist(mainly for games, but in general), should I get a Fine Arts Degree?
imo that's a good idea, as you will only be a better game artist with strong traditional skills!
My two cents about school - I go to a private art college and I actually think I learned tons in the first two years. But maybe that's just cuz I knew absolutely nothing about game art when I first got in ("What's a wacom tablet?", "What's concept art mean?", "I hate 3D, I don't get it!!", *scared shitless of photoshop*) Perhaps I would have learned just as much if I had chosen the independent route and Polycount as my sole teacher - who knows! But one thing I do have to say is being in school has been great for networking and also gives me the opportunity to apply to internships.
Recently though, the usefulness of my classes have been dwindling for me, as I've run out of pretty much every 3D environment or prop class I can take, and the other classes (3D character, 2D environment design), as interesting as they are, are not really adding to my portfolio
Art school's dang expensive too . . . can't deny that - so once again I'd say it's smart that you're considering a cheap degree in Fine Art and sticking close to Polycount and other forums all the while ^_^
I think the pros outweigh the cons as far as attending school. The right school will make hardware and software available to you that you'd be hard pressed to get your hands on (yeah, I now about "alternative" licensing, wink-wink, nudge nudge). I mean, you can't snag a mocap studio from a torrent. Also, the subjection to crits from your peers and experienced professionals (assuming the faculty is good), the pressure of hard deadlines, the tangible competition all around you, plus the camaraderie you build pulling all-nighters in the labs with others can't be had sitting at home. Becoming a professional is more than just learning how to rig or how this or that piece of software works. Vo-tech is for producing plumbers and similar blue collar people (I've actually seen job listings entitle "Maya Operator" like it's a forklift or something). I would hope your desire is to advance yourself as an artist, for those other jobs are just that, jobs. This is a career, a calling, something you HAVE to do because life wouldn't be worth it otherwise. You don't clock out at 5 and just putz around at night and during the weekends when you're an artist.
Now with that said, let me at least make you aware of things to watch out for when choosing a school:
• Ask what the ratio of full time faculty to adjunct/grad student teachers are (some schools save big money by hiring part time people and grad students to teach most of their classes).
• Expect to see what the faculty can do, ideally seeing their work.
• Ask what the class sizes are and what the student/faculty ratio is.
• Ask about accessibility to tools (some places don't provide much hardware or software, leaving that up to you to get).
• Ask about graduate placement success and where the alums are now.
• Ask about any relationships the school may have with pro studios (ie - internships, guest lectures, job fairs, etc)
And finally, ask what else you might have access to. For instance, we have a recent grad who had the opportunity while he was here to do a project with a professor of paleontology building a prehistoric creature and animating it. That ended up getting him a job with Dreamworks. You never know, which is why you shouldn't look for a vo-tech style school. You want to be more than just a Maya or Max Operator, right?
University pushes you into doing alot more work. If you were sat at home, you will be probably doing unfinished bits and not have the motivation to do anything. I suppose that depends on the person though.
University pushes you into doing alot more work. If you were sat at home, you will be probably doing unfinished bits and not have the motivation to do anything. I suppose that depends on the person though.
Yeah, from my personal experience, University degrees also require a huge time sink into various social sciences classes, a few humanities, several electives, along with a questionable 'Foundation' year.
But something I've realised about human nature:
If you want someone to get something done, give it to the BUSIEST person you know. They will somehow find a way to get it done.
If you give a task to someone who has all the time in the world with NOTHING to do, they usually never get anything done EVER.
Truth is, as both a recipient of a Fine Arts degree, and a current 3D Game Art Instructor I can honestly say there's no clear cut resolution to the OPs question. It's completely dependant on the situations of each individual.
richwderby
University pushes you into doing alot more work. If you were sat at home, you will be probably doing unfinished bits and not have the motivation to do anything. I suppose that depends on the person though.
well, you can solve that problem by joining an indie/mod team.
advantage of doing that is if a project you joined turns out to be made by incompetent people (or lazy, or douchebags etc) then you can just quit and join another of many teams that are in need of artists.
Also it usually gives you an opportunity to produce some nice assets for portfolio.
the bad part is that you don't get to socialize with people as much as you could at university.
I'm currently on a Game design course that i've been pondering whether it is worth it or not. However I do know the tutors here have good networks with some people from NaughtyDog and other gaming studios and they have so far been good at teaching the modelling software and are going into concept art, texturing and importing into game engines and level design.
My question is would it be worth sticking with just to have the diploma and if so should I concentrate my spare home time into pure 3d modelling or learning more fine art / traditional skills? (Side note, this course doesn't cost me anything but time (3 days a week + Homework)
It seems like nowadays more and more jobs require a degree of some art field but I'm not in the industry so I could just be blowing smoke. Is that true though?
It seems like nowadays more and more jobs require a degree of some art field but I'm not in the industry so I could just be blowing smoke. Is that true though?
There are some reasons for this kind of job description:
1) Some visas require that the job must have a degree as a requirement. Not just that the applicant must have a degree but that the job must require someone who has a degree. So putting this in the job description supports the visa requirement.
2) Some kinds of government incentive programs require that the company have a certain percentage of staff who have degrees. Technology or research and development incentives are commonly worded like this as they're designed for companies that would be mostly programmers or engineers. So to recieve the grant, or tax break, from the government a company must have a certain percentage of people with degrees.
3) The company just wants to make sure that applicants are certain they are qualified for the job.
So you can see that in case 1) if you don't need a visa then they may just overlook the degree requirement. And in case 3) if you just wow them you'll not have a problem. Case 2) is more complicated but not as common since it it's quite limiting for a games company that might need 50-100 artists.
The right school will make hardware and software available to you that you'd be hard pressed to get your hands on (yeah, I now about "alternative" licensing, wink-wink, nudge nudge).
Remember all Autodesk products are free and legal for everyone with no job or is a student. http://students.autodesk.com/
As a teacher at in a rather low end 3d art program, my advice? Don't do it. Most schools will really only be able to teach you the basics. I'd mirror what other people have said here. You'll get better bang for your buck getting tutorials from eat3d/gnomon/3dmotive or even digital tutors depending on your skill level. In any art-based profession, what you need more than anything is practice. College isn't going to A) give you enough face time for serious practice, and going to waste your time or even make you develop bad habits.
For the price of like 1 course you can get say multiple DVDs, subscribe to DT for a month or two, or... well whatever you want. The only real advantage to school, besides networking, is that you can ask direct questions and get an answer on the spot. And, of course, the quality of the answer depends on the teacher. You can of course get the same thing from an active community such as this one though.
If you do decide to go to a school, my advice is simply this: DO NOT COAST. I see plenty of students, and it's not hard to see the ones who will make something of themselves. They're the ones who come in week after week having applied and expanded upon what they've learned on their own time. If you want to get enough out of it, you're going to have to work at it. If you do only what the classes require, you might as well not bother.
Thank you so much for all the replies guys. This has really helped me stay away from the rough path I was about to enter. Now I'm looking into a Fine Arts Degree of Illustration or Drawing at the College of Visual Arts. After reading all your comments I began to realize that a degree in Fine Arts will allow me more room to scoot around in. It will give me more opportunities and the ability to build up to something else if my mind set towards game art were to change.
Thank you so much for all the replies guys. This has really helped me stay away from the rough path I was about to enter. Now I'm looking into a Fine Arts Degree of Illustration or Drawing at the College of Visual Arts. After reading all your comments I began to realize that a degree in Fine Arts will allow me more room to scoot around in. It will give me more opportunities and the ability to build up to something else if my mind set towards game art were to change.
More or less.
The real takeaway is that a strong traditional background is always more valuable than knowing how to use a piece of software. If you can learn the theory of why things look good/bad (composition, lighting, perspective, values, hue, etc.), as well as how to draw and paint, those skills and experience will carry over directly into whatever program you decide to learn/use. Train to be an artist, not a button pusher.
Either way a degree is not going to help you get anything. Going for a fine art degree gives you 4 years to pay money and feel ok about dicking around with some drawing while you _ideally_ learn how to do 3d and 2d art on your own. All the instruction is available for free on the internet or through books and all the feedback you'd ever need is available either on the forums, through dvds or private classes. There are ofcourse other benefits to higher education, but if your goal is to simply get into the video game industry then having a degree in anything is way overkill. Here's a list of what you need:
1. Working knowledge of Photoshop, 3dsMax, and _maybe_ zbrush/mudbox as a plus.
2. A portfolio with maybe 5 or 6 decent textured models.
3. Some communication skills and a reasonable personality. (don't be a dick, work with other people)
4. Some networking skills. Make friends with people in the industry. Learn from them and have them help you get a job.
And once you get in work your ass off and eventually make millions.
I decided not to go to college when I graduated about a year and a half ago. Since then I have learned so much through forums, digitaltutors, eat3d, youtube/vimeo, etc, and at this point I'm pretty comfortable with what I'm doing. If I had to make an asset, set up an environment, whatever, I should be pretty ok.
There are drawbacks to not going to school and instead working on your own. Struggling with motivation and inspiration are the biggest two for me personally, and trouble networking naturally comes due to being on my own. It is very easy to get into a rut when you are on your own, and especially since what you are doing (making a portfolio) doesn't really feel like it's contributing to anything (like an actual project with an actual goal and artistic direction in mind).
Some advice would be, for the portfolio at least, swallow some artistic ambition and start with a few practical props like chairs and wardrobes. It's important to keep in mind that the majority of art jobs deal with environments and making practical assets from reference. Basing your models on pre-existing objects and references also helps you to avoid getting into a creative rut. Once you get into a rut things can go south quickly, and you're on your own to break through that.
Another thing to keep in mind is that it can be very easy to settle into only learning things and never getting anything done. I have spent the vast majority of my time learning, watching tutorials, looking things up, and I got into a dangerous habit of not actually making things.
Learning is the easy part. All of the technical things you'll need to know are just a few clicks away, and you can more or less passively read/watch them while eating a sandwich. It's much more difficult when you are staring at a blank canvas or an empty viewport and are desperate to get from nothing to something great. If you haven't put in the hours to become a better artist, a lack of decent results over an extended period of time can be soul crushing.
College is a place where lots of people around the same age are able to come together and socialize. I have been in the same room living with my parents for the past year and a half and have absolutely no social life or people I hang with since they're all in college. Not to say this would be the case for you (since I don't know your age and circumstances), but it's important to keep in mind that not being in school, not having a job in the industry yet, and feeling the constant pressure and obligation to make something good enough to get you that job is a formula for pure unhappiness and isolation. Not to mention that getting a job itself can be a toss in the wind regardless of what you've done.
If you can find someone who wants to take the same route as you, and if you can feed off of eachother's experience and help eachother out, then you can effectively avoid that type of rut (or at least deal with it better). If you really are on your own like I was/am then I guess you either end up stronger or feeling completely defeated. That's the thing about academia, there's always a cushion to fall back on and there's security there, but in a practical sense it's often a complete waste of money, especial when it comes to this field.
I hope this doesn't come across as too negative, I really think that going to college for this type of thing is the worse option, but I want to be realistic here and being in school can be a lot easier than the alternative.
I'm not a person that is very self motivated, especially at home. I have too many distractions. Brother, sister, parents, computer games, friends, and so on. I need to get out to make myself what I want to be. It's not completely game art I want to be doing. I just want to do art in general. And personally I have a hard time getting into the 3D programs. I've messed around with them, but photography, drawing, or and other hands on art is much more appealing to me. It may be because it's easier for me and I don't have time to learn a whole program, so I'm sure that will change when I can actually focus on it. I do love 2D/3D game art, but I usually gaze at the paintings and concept art.
I am a little weary about college and it's costs, but I'm afraid if I don't do it now then I'll trail off into something I don't want to be doing. Like working a boring job until I'm 50 years old and realize that I wasted my life when I could have started off with college to lead me into an artistic job I'll love when I'm around 25(hopefully).
I don't want work to be work. I want it to be something I'd like to consider as part of my good life. I think getting a Fine Arts Degree will help me do that.
I would love to one day post Concept Artwork onto here in the future for others to create if they so desire.
So the problem with not being self motivated with the 3d game art stuff is that the tools change all the time and you have to be self motivated enough to at least learn the new techniques. If you can't do that then I'm not sure how you can work in the industry.
The problem with not being self motivated when it comes to drawing and concept art stuff is that while there are no new techniques you have to be pretty damn good at it to be able to do it as an actual career. You have to draw non-stop. There are no excuses for that one, its all just talent and hard work and those two go together alot. The full time concept artists are really amazing, and the reason they are is that they draw ALL the time, in some ways thats an even bigger lifestyle commitment than doing 3d.
I understand what you mean about not having a menial job and being 50 year old train conductor or whatever and then get laid off for some lame reason, but the reality of it is that work is going to be work no matter where it is. At the end of the day you are skilled craftsman creating a product. Its a nice job, it pays well, the working conditions are really good and the people you work with are really awesome, but its still a job. You wake up and work 9-5 (most of the time you work 9-9) you make cool shit and you're doing it with some cool people that you will probably like, but its not summer camp frolicking around with a paintbrush and rainbows.
You're right. I didn't mean to make it sound like it would be easy and super fun. It's just what I want to do. I am a decent newby drawer, because i use to draw a lot, but I know I have a LOT to practice and learn.
I realize that motivation is success. However, it is my struggle just like most peoples. Having a work setting like school motivates the hell out of me.
Should you get a degree?
More than likely yes. It helps to land jobs where they are the requirement. Certain degrees also help you with visa paperwork if you're looking outside your country for work. It also helps to have a back up plan, who knows where this industry is going or if you'll want to stay in, considering you'll be working for the next 40-50years its hard to say what will happen.
Should you get a degree in game art?
Probably not. They are nearly worthless and everyone knows you're hired based on your skills as demonstrated in your portfolio. You aren't hired based on whatever paper credentials you happen to have hanging on your wall.
Best answer I think so far. I will give 2 cents in my own special way:
Should I get a Degree? Yes
Should I pay more than what my Degree will be worth? Probably not.
But what if I live in one of those countries that give me free/easy way to pay off my education, should I get one then? Yes
Do I need one to get a job in the Games Industry? Possibly but not necessarily.
If I get one will I get a job in the Games Industry? No
So they don't look for Degrees when they're hiring? It depends, but usually no. For art positions, practically definitely no.
Should I get a Games Design Degree? Not really. But it wouldn't hurt... Well only if it won't hurt. As in: You already have a worthwhile Degree in something of value to you and your job prospects, and you have found an institution of verifiable quality, and cost is of no concern to you at all.
Should I teach myself about 3d/design/programming? This is the cheapest solution. But that does not mean it is the best solution for you. Nor does that mean that a University classroom for a Degree is the best solution for you. In fact with the Games Industry, it is more of a slippery topic, with Degrees having less baring on success. Of course the education and experience, as well as the actual status and doors it may open can be very useful. Notice how I didn't say that teaching yourself would be cheap but not easy; that would imply that there is an easy way. There are no easy ways to get into the Game Industry: They all require hard work.
I would say not to. I know a few people who have got them and not really achieved much as a result of them, I'd say you'd be better off buckling down on your own to learn your skills and get involved with as many projects as possible. That said, going to university would help you meet a whole network of people who do the same thing as you which would both be great for your growth and also good for general networking and access to new projects.
But overall, I'd say just get on some mods to begin with and build a portfolio then use those to get onto small jobs?
On an off-topic: I've just joined Polycount, I used to post on the forums (about 5 years ago?) but I've forgotten all of my login details. It's been a long while but it's nice to see the forum running full steam ahead.
If you are motivated and dedicated enough to make a school like flashpoint worth it, then you are motivated and dedicated enough to do it on our own. Go to a traditional art school, I wish I did.
Actually, I decided not to go to school for art at all. I feel it's something I'll do as free lance that could potentially become bigger than that, and I'll just get a normal job while going to a community college.
Well I think it all depends on the schools, I can only talk for the ones I've heard about here in Sweden as well as some of them in the UK, but even then it's all up to you in the end, how much work you put into your art.
I'd highly recommend some of the Swedish schools though, lots of skilled students coming out and with proper connections/ties to the game companies here.
Replies
Since you are already here take advantage of it, it will be much cheaper to buy your own software and lean it your self than to spend more money than you have at a school that just wants to push you out the door once they have your money.
For your skills, teach yourself on site such polycount and other good tutorial sites.
If you are in the nebulous "I want to be a programmer/designer/artist/animator" phase, spend some time to figure out what you want to do before you do anything. Getting $100k in debt just to decide what you want to do is a waste of money.
If you're going to spend 20k+ on a useless degree you might as well donate it to polycount.
a $20k degree!? Maybe in the 90's
I'm just talking about what I walked out with. It's one expensive piece of paper I wish I could return.
Edit : And everything Nerf Bat said I completely agree with. I feel like I bought 20k worth of snake oil.
Not true, perspective, etc etc etc...
/AIGrad
You will get a better understanding of creating 3d art by buying some eat3d, gnomon, and 3dmotive tutorials opposed to what 90% of these game art "schools" will teach you.
For the most part, they are there to take your money.
There are some legit schools out there (the ones that are actually hard to get into).
If I were you I would try to get into a good public university and either study computer science or art.
I am finishing up at UCSD getting a degree in programming in the arts and I work as a research assistant in our Games Lab where I get to create all cool types of 3d art and program cool scripts and shaders.
IMO getting a degree and foundation in either classical art or computer programming will pay off 10x more than going to a game school.
I read this article a few weeks back, you might find it useful (check the video). Its about game's industry recruiters, and what they think will make you hire-able:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-14-gi-career-fair-meet-the-recruiters-article
or in canada!
yeah sure it sound good, and must be freakin awesome...but reality wise, I ll rather back myself up with something more solid. Unless you have the benjamins $$$!! its 80k in education!! Makes me think of an article I read a while ago about the overpopulation of jobless photographers getting out of school...
I went to school and am now doing exactly this. Only with a large amount of debt. Save yourself the trouble.
The hardest part of self teaching is finding the motivation to keep going.
Do NOT go to a school to learn how to use a tool or program. (period!)
100% truth, and pretty much MY exact story as well. GL OP. Make the right decisions
I agree this comes up enough to be Stickied!
qft went to ai as well. Hope the school goes down utter scam artists. Learned more in past months after school and i still dont have a job. I REALLY REALLY WISH i came on here before school and saw some of these posts.
Remember schools are out to make money they could care less about your actual education
More than likely yes. It helps to land jobs where they are the requirement. Certain degrees also help you with visa paperwork if you're looking outside your country for work. It also helps to have a back up plan, who knows where this industry is going or if you'll want to stay in, considering you'll be working for the next 40-50years its hard to say what will happen.
Should you get a degree in game art?
Probably not. They are nearly worthless and everyone knows you're hired based on your skills as demonstrated in your portfolio. You aren't hired based on whatever paper credentials you happen to have hanging on your wall.
BUT, and I can't stress this enough, that was because going to university in Sweden is free and you get financial aid while studying. Had the situation been anything like paying huge amounts of money for it I don't know if it'd be worth it as opposed to just hunkering down with some good online subscriptions or a few books and just teaching yourself.
The money you save could be spent to support yourself during an unpaid internship.
imo that's a good idea, as you will only be a better game artist with strong traditional skills!
My two cents about school - I go to a private art college and I actually think I learned tons in the first two years. But maybe that's just cuz I knew absolutely nothing about game art when I first got in ("What's a wacom tablet?", "What's concept art mean?", "I hate 3D, I don't get it!!", *scared shitless of photoshop*) Perhaps I would have learned just as much if I had chosen the independent route and Polycount as my sole teacher - who knows! But one thing I do have to say is being in school has been great for networking and also gives me the opportunity to apply to internships.
Recently though, the usefulness of my classes have been dwindling for me, as I've run out of pretty much every 3D environment or prop class I can take, and the other classes (3D character, 2D environment design), as interesting as they are, are not really adding to my portfolio
Art school's dang expensive too . . . can't deny that - so once again I'd say it's smart that you're considering a cheap degree in Fine Art and sticking close to Polycount and other forums all the while ^_^
Now with that said, let me at least make you aware of things to watch out for when choosing a school:
• Ask what the ratio of full time faculty to adjunct/grad student teachers are (some schools save big money by hiring part time people and grad students to teach most of their classes).
• Expect to see what the faculty can do, ideally seeing their work.
• Ask what the class sizes are and what the student/faculty ratio is.
• Ask about accessibility to tools (some places don't provide much hardware or software, leaving that up to you to get).
• Ask about graduate placement success and where the alums are now.
• Ask about any relationships the school may have with pro studios (ie - internships, guest lectures, job fairs, etc)
And finally, ask what else you might have access to. For instance, we have a recent grad who had the opportunity while he was here to do a project with a professor of paleontology building a prehistoric creature and animating it. That ended up getting him a job with Dreamworks. You never know, which is why you shouldn't look for a vo-tech style school. You want to be more than just a Maya or Max Operator, right?
Yeah, from my personal experience, University degrees also require a huge time sink into various social sciences classes, a few humanities, several electives, along with a questionable 'Foundation' year.
But something I've realised about human nature:
If you want someone to get something done, give it to the BUSIEST person you know. They will somehow find a way to get it done.
If you give a task to someone who has all the time in the world with NOTHING to do, they usually never get anything done EVER.
Truth is, as both a recipient of a Fine Arts degree, and a current 3D Game Art Instructor I can honestly say there's no clear cut resolution to the OPs question. It's completely dependant on the situations of each individual.
If you want to do digital art, learn the tools online and on your own, and study fine art in college. Certainly not "game art."
advantage of doing that is if a project you joined turns out to be made by incompetent people (or lazy, or douchebags etc) then you can just quit and join another of many teams that are in need of artists.
Also it usually gives you an opportunity to produce some nice assets for portfolio.
the bad part is that you don't get to socialize with people as much as you could at university.
My question is would it be worth sticking with just to have the diploma and if so should I concentrate my spare home time into pure 3d modelling or learning more fine art / traditional skills? (Side note, this course doesn't cost me anything but time (3 days a week + Homework)
There are some reasons for this kind of job description:
1) Some visas require that the job must have a degree as a requirement. Not just that the applicant must have a degree but that the job must require someone who has a degree. So putting this in the job description supports the visa requirement.
2) Some kinds of government incentive programs require that the company have a certain percentage of staff who have degrees. Technology or research and development incentives are commonly worded like this as they're designed for companies that would be mostly programmers or engineers. So to recieve the grant, or tax break, from the government a company must have a certain percentage of people with degrees.
3) The company just wants to make sure that applicants are certain they are qualified for the job.
So you can see that in case 1) if you don't need a visa then they may just overlook the degree requirement. And in case 3) if you just wow them you'll not have a problem. Case 2) is more complicated but not as common since it it's quite limiting for a games company that might need 50-100 artists.
Remember all Autodesk products are free and legal for everyone with no job or is a student.
http://students.autodesk.com/
For the price of like 1 course you can get say multiple DVDs, subscribe to DT for a month or two, or... well whatever you want. The only real advantage to school, besides networking, is that you can ask direct questions and get an answer on the spot. And, of course, the quality of the answer depends on the teacher. You can of course get the same thing from an active community such as this one though.
If you do decide to go to a school, my advice is simply this: DO NOT COAST. I see plenty of students, and it's not hard to see the ones who will make something of themselves. They're the ones who come in week after week having applied and expanded upon what they've learned on their own time. If you want to get enough out of it, you're going to have to work at it. If you do only what the classes require, you might as well not bother.
This is so true its not funny
More or less.
The real takeaway is that a strong traditional background is always more valuable than knowing how to use a piece of software. If you can learn the theory of why things look good/bad (composition, lighting, perspective, values, hue, etc.), as well as how to draw and paint, those skills and experience will carry over directly into whatever program you decide to learn/use. Train to be an artist, not a button pusher.
1. Working knowledge of Photoshop, 3dsMax, and _maybe_ zbrush/mudbox as a plus.
2. A portfolio with maybe 5 or 6 decent textured models.
3. Some communication skills and a reasonable personality. (don't be a dick, work with other people)
4. Some networking skills. Make friends with people in the industry. Learn from them and have them help you get a job.
And once you get in work your ass off and eventually make millions.
Simple formula, anyone can do it.
There are drawbacks to not going to school and instead working on your own. Struggling with motivation and inspiration are the biggest two for me personally, and trouble networking naturally comes due to being on my own. It is very easy to get into a rut when you are on your own, and especially since what you are doing (making a portfolio) doesn't really feel like it's contributing to anything (like an actual project with an actual goal and artistic direction in mind).
Some advice would be, for the portfolio at least, swallow some artistic ambition and start with a few practical props like chairs and wardrobes. It's important to keep in mind that the majority of art jobs deal with environments and making practical assets from reference. Basing your models on pre-existing objects and references also helps you to avoid getting into a creative rut. Once you get into a rut things can go south quickly, and you're on your own to break through that.
Another thing to keep in mind is that it can be very easy to settle into only learning things and never getting anything done. I have spent the vast majority of my time learning, watching tutorials, looking things up, and I got into a dangerous habit of not actually making things.
Learning is the easy part. All of the technical things you'll need to know are just a few clicks away, and you can more or less passively read/watch them while eating a sandwich. It's much more difficult when you are staring at a blank canvas or an empty viewport and are desperate to get from nothing to something great. If you haven't put in the hours to become a better artist, a lack of decent results over an extended period of time can be soul crushing.
College is a place where lots of people around the same age are able to come together and socialize. I have been in the same room living with my parents for the past year and a half and have absolutely no social life or people I hang with since they're all in college. Not to say this would be the case for you (since I don't know your age and circumstances), but it's important to keep in mind that not being in school, not having a job in the industry yet, and feeling the constant pressure and obligation to make something good enough to get you that job is a formula for pure unhappiness and isolation. Not to mention that getting a job itself can be a toss in the wind regardless of what you've done.
If you can find someone who wants to take the same route as you, and if you can feed off of eachother's experience and help eachother out, then you can effectively avoid that type of rut (or at least deal with it better). If you really are on your own like I was/am then I guess you either end up stronger or feeling completely defeated. That's the thing about academia, there's always a cushion to fall back on and there's security there, but in a practical sense it's often a complete waste of money, especial when it comes to this field.
I hope this doesn't come across as too negative, I really think that going to college for this type of thing is the worse option, but I want to be realistic here and being in school can be a lot easier than the alternative.
I am a little weary about college and it's costs, but I'm afraid if I don't do it now then I'll trail off into something I don't want to be doing. Like working a boring job until I'm 50 years old and realize that I wasted my life when I could have started off with college to lead me into an artistic job I'll love when I'm around 25(hopefully).
I don't want work to be work. I want it to be something I'd like to consider as part of my good life. I think getting a Fine Arts Degree will help me do that.
I would love to one day post Concept Artwork onto here in the future for others to create if they so desire.
The problem with not being self motivated when it comes to drawing and concept art stuff is that while there are no new techniques you have to be pretty damn good at it to be able to do it as an actual career. You have to draw non-stop. There are no excuses for that one, its all just talent and hard work and those two go together alot. The full time concept artists are really amazing, and the reason they are is that they draw ALL the time, in some ways thats an even bigger lifestyle commitment than doing 3d.
I understand what you mean about not having a menial job and being 50 year old train conductor or whatever and then get laid off for some lame reason, but the reality of it is that work is going to be work no matter where it is. At the end of the day you are skilled craftsman creating a product. Its a nice job, it pays well, the working conditions are really good and the people you work with are really awesome, but its still a job. You wake up and work 9-5 (most of the time you work 9-9) you make cool shit and you're doing it with some cool people that you will probably like, but its not summer camp frolicking around with a paintbrush and rainbows.
I realize that motivation is success. However, it is my struggle just like most peoples. Having a work setting like school motivates the hell out of me.
Best answer I think so far. I will give 2 cents in my own special way:
Should I get a Degree?
Yes
Should I pay more than what my Degree will be worth?
Probably not.
But what if I live in one of those countries that give me free/easy way to pay off my education, should I get one then?
Yes
Do I need one to get a job in the Games Industry?
Possibly but not necessarily.
If I get one will I get a job in the Games Industry?
No
So they don't look for Degrees when they're hiring?
It depends, but usually no. For art positions, practically definitely no.
Should I get a Games Design Degree?
Not really. But it wouldn't hurt... Well only if it won't hurt. As in: You already have a worthwhile Degree in something of value to you and your job prospects, and you have found an institution of verifiable quality, and cost is of no concern to you at all.
Should I teach myself about 3d/design/programming?
This is the cheapest solution. But that does not mean it is the best solution for you. Nor does that mean that a University classroom for a Degree is the best solution for you. In fact with the Games Industry, it is more of a slippery topic, with Degrees having less baring on success. Of course the education and experience, as well as the actual status and doors it may open can be very useful. Notice how I didn't say that teaching yourself would be cheap but not easy; that would imply that there is an easy way. There are no easy ways to get into the Game Industry: They all require hard work.
But overall, I'd say just get on some mods to begin with and build a portfolio then use those to get onto small jobs?
On an off-topic: I've just joined Polycount, I used to post on the forums (about 5 years ago?) but I've forgotten all of my login details. It's been a long while but it's nice to see the forum running full steam ahead.
I'd highly recommend some of the Swedish schools though, lots of skilled students coming out and with proper connections/ties to the game companies here.