Art Insitutes sued for 11 billion in fraud!
polycounter lvl 17
I dont know how many of you guys went to an AI school, but this is interesting!
http://www.petapixel.com/2011/09/02/us-gov-sues-the-art-institutes-for-11-billion-fraud/
Here is the senate testimony
http://help.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Bittel.pdf
http://www.petapixel.com/2011/09/02/us-gov-sues-the-art-institutes-for-11-billion-fraud/
Here is the senate testimony
http://help.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Bittel.pdf
Replies
I didnt even know that it would happen so effin fast. O.O
The reason they are being sued is because they are using unlawful recruitment practices by paying recruiters on how many students they can recruit. They target students who they know full well cannot pay for the school and help them get federal aid money. Eventually this money runs out and the student will no longer be able to keep going to school and have to drop out. But AI doesn't care as they already sucked up a bunch of federal aid money from the government.
That is why they are being sued, its nothing to do with education.
Definitely clears a lot of assumptions up.
I hope it goes down and everyone stays clear.
I learned everything else from professional friends....
i was really lucky to have them near
But there are some great AI schools out there but they do scam you
Only now am I starting to get to the level i wanted. I never even learned what a normal map was till i left or what baking was.
sad
Rip off. One big rip off.
And yea... that doesn't say a thing about the education level @ AI or anywere else but I thought I'd mention it...
No thats about right it was ok go build something ready and GO barley any actual instructing
I thought Devry was in the clear. Like if you go to Devry the chances of you getting hired or recruited by some studio are higher than other private institutes. =\
quit now, invest money in dvds from 3dmotive eat3d and such. Spend time learning here. You will learn 1000000x more then school and save boat loads. I wish someone told me this when i was in, please please please please take our advice run, RUN AWAY
I just saved you 60-100k you can mail me a check.
If the suit is for defrauding the govt., my guess is it's going back to them.
Also, UofP was already sued for the same thing and settled if I remember correctly.
People already gave you their opinion on the school in your thread a few months ago.
This man speaks the truth.. These schools are a joke to the industry. In my honest opinion as a recruiter for my company, when I see someone who applies that just got out of one of these major 'art schools' I equate it to that person having poor knowledge and weak portfolios.
please add me to your exception list :-) since i might as well put AI on my resume i paid enough for it lol.
Funny, I went to AI, one of these 'art schools' and my first job a month after I graduated was at Bungie, and now at Naughty Dog.
In fact I would say, close to half, if not more then half of the environment artists here at Naughty Dog went to an AI. But I guess were a studio full of people with having poor knowledge and weak portfolios
With every thing, blindly judging people by the path they have taken instead of the quality of the individual themselves is foolish beyond belief.
I'm graduating from AIP this quarter. Sure, there are both pros and cons of the school, as there is with any school. It all depends on what you make out of it. Yes, I learned more skills and techniques from Polycount than I have from going to school here, but I would have never even been introduced to game art had I not gone to school here. They gave me the fundamentals and guidance I needed to get started, and after that, it was up to me to decide what to do with it. One of my instructors here was actually the one that introduced me to Polycount in the first place.
So instead of bitching and moaning about the school, I was proactive and used it to my advantage. I've made a ton of connections and have had many opportunities through the school. I got my current 3d job through a recommendation from a teacher. If you work hard, and don't expect everything to be handed to you, you'll be just fine. If a few months from now you realize that it's not for you, then that's okay too.
Also, the friendships I've made here, and the college experience, has been invaluable.
Thank you.
I graduated from the one in santa monica, and many of the game art teachers were pretty damn badass. I know people who were able to land jobs right out of school, at pretty much any studio you can name, including myself.
Of course, there were still a lot of people who half-assed everything and still can't find a job. But for the most part, you get out what you put in to it.
Sounds like the one in chicago and pitts are no good. The one in Cali is the best
geez man. sorry
thats not entirely true. When you have faculty member who barley know how to model and when i went to ask questions they did not know the answer. Simple stuff.
Faculty make or break the school
Of course going to AI doesn't mean you'll fail at life. But it does mean you're getting into debt. And for what? I'd say very little.
Of the other half of the artists, those that didn't go to AI, how many have no degree in art at all? We have quite a few of those in my job (myself included). And those people don't have student loans.
I'm also curious as to whether you believe you could have gotten to where you are "on your own" (using DVDs and places like polycount), or do you believe that your time in AI gave you something valuable that you couldn't have gotten elsewhere? And is that something worth the debt to someone who is about to go through the same path? Keep in mind that tuition now is probably more than double, if not triple, what it was when you went.
one of these days I am going to get my AIP reel up here so everyone can have a good chuckle ..just have to figure out how to get it off the vhstape
I also went to an AI, and I don't look at it as going into debt for very little. Because regardless of the quality of the school, I look at it as paying for time. I paid to have a dedicated 14+ hrs a day 5 days a week to focus on my work. Sure I could have skipped school and learned from DVDs and such, but that would have had to be done after working a full time job. The priority would have been maintain a job for living and learning 3d would have come second. With school it was always school first and a job second. I feel in that situation it would have taken longer to reach the same skill level and I miss out on some of the social benefits of going to school. I would not have had the connections to get my first real gig had it not been for one of my teachers. However, it does seem that going to a community college for a traditional art degree and learning digital on the side may be a better combo.
And as with anything your experience with the school is really dependent on what you put in. Too many people went to school thinking that if they are sitting in a chair passing their classes they will be granted a job when they walk out the door. They fail to realize that you are not just competing with kids in the class but with every industry vet currently in the field. And that highlights one of the biggest issues with the school, which is that they wont fail students. People are just pushed through without ever hearing that they need to step things up.
Anywho, yeah, School is what you make of it, be it something you take seriously or not.
Well gee, I don't know. After all you were warned in this thread.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85495
Come what may, you made your choice knowing the history. What you do now in this situation is up to you.
well uhh, I went to a school called the Academy of Interactive Entertainment, and got a Diploma...
then my countrt's game industry collapsed in on itself.
Now I'm doing a Degree in Communication Design... playing with shadow puppets.
Just do what everyone else in this thread tells you and apply yourself and you'll be fine.
The overall experience of going to Uni. shouldn't be dismissed. There's more to it than the sum of it parts (however faulty they may be). Although in the grand scheme of things, I agree - the money just isn't worth it. U'll have to - and should - prepare an "alternative" learning program that goes beyond DVDs, as close as possible to what ur degree will carry u thru but doesn't put u in debt 4 life. Just cuz others do it doesn't make it a "safe & sound" plan.
Figure drawing classes / sessions and meeting new artists in a learning/training environment is possibly the best thing u can have. Find it somewhere for 50$ a month and u'r set.
To put it in perspective, a degree from the University of Iceland, (the top geology school in the world) costs 2,500 USD for all 4 years. The student loan bubble in the US is out of control, and regulations on education costs is long overdo.
Even though this specific lawsuit is about fraud and not about quality of teaching, there should be an inquiry and legal repercussions on the fact that many of these schools are diploma mills with no quality checks, and even when they do offer teachers with experience or knowledge, they'll pass pretty much every student.
That being said, we should not be complacent with how much money it costs. It really really is a TON of money and not easy to pay back. If you have other educational options you should take them! There used to be a time (5-10 years ago) when these privatized and for profit schools had the edge on teaching this kinda art because other universities are just so terribly slow at adapting new technologies, (which is typical of the respected higher education system). But nowadays these private schools are becoming less relevant. Granted, you can still get a more focused "Game Art" education from these places, but at this point I would suggest putting (a fraction of) your money elsewhere to be honest. There are some great 3D programs that you could major in for much cheaper at other universities, and although they are not exactly perfect at teaching our craft specifically, you can easily augment your education with tutorial videos. To be clear, I don't believe that you just shouldn't get a degree however. Yes people can technically still get jobs by just having talent and no diploma. But it is becoming increasingly more common for entry level jobs to require a bachelors degree, and those who land those positions to have them. As long as you are getting a bachelors in something somewhat related, going to school with peers who will someday become industry connections, and augmenting your education with tutorial videos and polycount - it is good enough as long as you work hard.
In short - if you asked me: "Would you do it all over again? Go to AI?" That depends. If it was 7 years ago? Perhaps. Now? No. Hell no.
Haha, that's not exclusive to AI. That's pretty much every woman who has heard of photoshop, I'm telling you xD
Wait so you mean I shouldn't pillow emboss everything I see in hot pink? ;D
See how easy it is to stereotype everyone by their gender? Stop it.
You may now resume your bickering
I don't agree with the line of thinking that you should get a degree because employers look for that. That's a bad standard to set. If it's the minimum to have a bachelor's to get into entry level employment, then it's not really a worthwhile degree. Entry-level used to mean novice workers. Now it means expensively trained people that haven't been employed in the field that long. There's no such thing as apprenticeships anymore. People have to be the best of the best to even get a foot in the door. It used to be that if you wanted to learn a trade, you worked for a tradesman who taught you the trade while passing off the tedious part of the job to you. A win-win deal there. You get a job and training. They get an extra hand for cheap that becomes more skilled over time. Interns are not apprentices. They've already invested in expensive training for the job, they're just getting the other half of it that you don't get in college, on the job experience.
We're lowering our standards for education by teaching young people that you can't get a job unless you put yourself into massive debt first. All that does is put people into indentured servitude for the rest of their lives. They'll be tied to their job and unable to negotiate a better deal for themselves because they're chained to a mountain of debt that is nearly impossible to get away from. If everybody has a degree, it's not worth much more than a high school diploma, which is more and more being devalued itself. A diploma is just a stepping stone to get into college where you are told that you get the real education that will launch your career for the rest of your life. And you'll be rich too! No, not anymore. College isn't what it used to be. Better to learn independently through the internet resources available or learn from a master of the trade.
ambershee: thats a bit harsh isnt it, dont you think women get sick of hearing that sort of shit?
sorry for the edit notice btw: meant to hit quote.