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I need advice on a job offer

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  • konstruct
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    konstruct polycounter lvl 18
    maze wrote: »
    +2

    +3. And in Texas no less. One of the perks of Texas is you *should* make more comparably to anywhere else in the US.
  • PredatorGSR
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    PredatorGSR polycounter lvl 14
    I'm going to throw up it out in the open and guess that you are referring to Vigil's entry level temp positions. About a month ago they were all renamed from "intern" to "temp" positions I'm guessing for legal reasons or something, I'm not sure why, maybe to include recent graduates who weren't technically in school anymore.

    So for everyone talking about how "insulting" it is, recognize that these are essentially paid internships for $10 hr, and were actually called that a month ago. This isn't a secret, the wage and the fact that they were paid internships used to be included in the job postings.

    It's up to you to decide whether it is worth it or not, the one upside is that interns do get to work on real art that will be in the shipped game, so it's not like you'd be getting coffee or anything.
  • Mcejn
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    Mcejn polycounter lvl 12
    I'm going to throw up it out in the open and guess that you are referring to Vigil's entry level temp positions. About a month ago they were all renamed from "intern" to "temp" positions I'm guessing for legal reasons or something, I'm not sure why.

    So for everyone talking about how "insulting" it is, recognize that these are essentially paid internships for $10 hr, and were actually called that a month ago. This isn't a secret, the wage and the fact that they were paid internships used to be included in the job postings.

    It's up to you to decide whether it is worth it or not, the one upside is that interns do get to work on real art that will be in the shipped game, so it's not like you'd be getting coffee or anything.

    He's absolutely right. Getting paid for an internship is already nice, plus you'd be working at a good studio on a AAA title. I imagine the knowledge and skills you'd acquire from such an experience would be the most worthwhile aspect of it all.

    You just have to go in knowing that there is virtually zero job security, and that the chances of being let go after you're time is up is better than not.
  • matthewjvia
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    matthewjvia polycounter lvl 13
    I was trying to avoid listing the name of the company because I didn't want to cause any problems.

    When I applied for the position it was listed as a temp artist job. Even in the interview and in the discussion I had after getting the offer, they always referred to it as if it were a contract artist position. It may have simply been a misunderstanding on my part. Whether that changes other people's opinions on it or not, it does not change my dilemma. Getting the experience matters more to me right now than living in luxury, but I don't know if I can even pay for my basic living expenses and bills, especially knowing that the job will be gone in 6 months with no guarantee of extension or being hired full time.

    I have done some research to see how much I would need to live and I spoke to them about it. I am waiting to hear back from them now. I really would love the opportunity, so hopefully, I'll get some good news.
  • Mcejn
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    Mcejn polycounter lvl 12
    It seems like you've done all you can then by talking to them and letting them know about your situation. If they come back and aren't willing to help you out, and you truly don't think you can even survive on the amount they're offering you - then it would be time to look elsewhere for opportunities.

    But this already sounds like a good opportunity for you, so I would exhaust every option to try and make it work before deciding it isn't feasible for you.

    Wish you lots of luck! Please keep us updated! :)
  • Rai
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    Rai polycounter lvl 15
    Has it been verified that the $20k is annually?
  • Jeremy Wright
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    Jeremy Wright polycounter lvl 17
    Rai wrote: »
    Has it been verified that the $20k is annually?

    That's what I want to know, too.
  • PredatorGSR
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    PredatorGSR polycounter lvl 14
    Hehe, there are enough people on the boards who are in the industry that discussions like this don't remain anonymous for long.

    Hopefully you can reach an agreement you can live with. I just wanted to clear up the confusion and give some background about why the wages for the entry level temp positions seemed so low.
  • matthewjvia
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    matthewjvia polycounter lvl 13
    It's $10/hour, which comes out to 20k annually for a 40 hour work week, though it is a temporary job that would only last 6 months, 8 or 9 at most. I am still trying to discuss it with them, so I will let you guys no what happens. Thanks for the help.
  • Sandbag
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    Sandbag polycounter lvl 18
    Right, what I meant was it was intended to last 6 months at the rate of 10/hr.
  • matthewjvia
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    matthewjvia polycounter lvl 13
    Unfortunately, I had to decline. They weren't willing to offer any more and there is no way I could live on that with my bills. Hopefully something better will come along soon. Thanks again everyone.
  • slipsius
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    slipsius mod
    For those of you who say being paid for an internship is nice enough.... I present you with this.

    http://www.moneyville.ca/blog/post/1024478--toiling-for-free-that-unpaid-internship-could-be-illegal?bn=1
  • pangarang
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    pangarang polycounter lvl 11
    Some information for you, if you haven't made your decision yet.

    I worked for 3 years at a AAA studio and shipped 6+ titles. By the time I left, I was making 33K ... as QA ...

    *edit*

    guess I was too late. Best of luck on your career endeavours, friend.
  • wasabi
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    Hey.. I am also finishing up my folio and about to start applying to studios all around the country. But It is very shocking to hear that an AAA studio paying you only 2K per month..
    I been out of school and have been doing this boring web content managing job(photo-retouching and making spam mails) and I get paid about $2200/month.
    I am just like you in that I would take any job offer in order to break into the industry but I was not aware of such a low pay check.
    I don't know but I thought for an entry level 3D artist, $2800~$3000/month was about average salary.
    Am I right on this or was I just dreaming?
  • Lennyagony
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    Lennyagony polycounter lvl 14
    I haven't read through the entire thread but wanted to add, if you intend to go for the position, find out the titles ship date, and have everything lined up to leverage your experience to move to another studio.

    Savings for another move and a portfolio can be hard to maintain on 20k a year while working extended crunch.

    Don't spend the next 5 years lowballing yourself as you work up from 20k.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    wasabi wrote: »
    Hey.. I am also finishing up my folio and about to start applying to studios all around the country. But It is very shocking to hear that an AAA studio paying you only 2K per month..
    I been out of school and have been doing this boring web content managing job(photo-retouching and making spam mails) and I get paid about $2200/month.
    I am just like you in that I would take any job offer in order to break into the industry but I was not aware of such a low pay check.
    I don't know but I thought for an entry level 3D artist, $2800~$3000/month was about average salary.
    Am I right on this or was I just dreaming?

    Well, we now know this is an internship which traditionaly have been unpaid. Typically it's a student working part time, most places require you to be a student to be an intern. An internship isnt a job, it's a class you don't pay for.
  • ae.
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    ae. polycounter lvl 12
    I would never move across the country for a low paying job like that especially if there not paying for relocation!
  • mastershokhan
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    If it's Vigil I would have to consider it. Get 2 more new enviro guys in on an apartment and you could make it work. I only say this because there was a girl( I think ) who did the intern thing and she got hired on right after like a couple months ago. Doesn't anybody remember that. I'm sure we all congratulated her. Plus, I think they use it as a test to see if u can hang. *I know BoBo is reading this thread* Even though it's over let's ask her to chime in.
  • haikai
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    haikai polycounter lvl 8
    "Intern positions" (and I know it's technically not in this case) might make it seem like they're doing you a favor by paying, but I don't really buy into that. They're probably not thinking at all about how your work will amount to actual course credits. They don't care about where you come from or how you get there or how you're going to survive once you get there.

    What it comes down to is they're looking for cheap talent. They want you in there full-time doing almost the same work as everyone else (or sometimes just the work that no one else wants to do) except with less pay and no benefits and no strings attached when the time comes to reduce staff.

    Like I said before, I've seen some really good people start out this way, and business is business. There are tons of people who are going to be willing to do it. My former employer is doing something similar, albeit with somewhat higher pay:
    http://www.arena.net/blog/arenanet-class-of-2012-internship-program-now-accepting-applications

    And of course, you have to take a test to even be considered...
  • Rick_D
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    Rick_D polycounter lvl 12
    maybe you should work on your portfolio and somebody will offer you something that matches your skill level.
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 9
    Im doing an unpaid internship for no credit (ive already graduated) just for the chance to work on my portfolio, and have someone hold me to a strict deadline.
    I get that some people wouldn't move across the country to take a position like this, but I KNOW I would and many of us trying to break in would do so with a shit eating grin on our face.
    Hate to be a whore but thats the truff.
  • The Mad Artist
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    The Mad Artist polycounter lvl 13
    Bonebrew22 wrote: »
    Im doing an unpaid internship for no credit (ive already graduated) just for the chance to work on my portfolio, and have someone hold me to a strict deadline.
    I get that some people wouldn't move across the country to take a position like this, but I KNOW I would and many of us trying to break in would do so with a shit eating grin on our face.
    Hate to be a whore but thats the truff.

    While your attitude is commendable, at the end of the day it's that same attitude that allows companies to continue paying such low wages. So many people jumping at the chance to work in the industry that they will take whatever measly wages they offer, just to get a foot in the door. At some point you have to think about the realism of the situation and the big picture when it comes to money. The dream of working in the games industry is great to have, but at no point should you accept a temp job that requires relocation without the company paying for it on top of the low wages. There are better ways to get your foot in the door. Work hard on your art, and find companies that are worth working for.
  • DeeKei
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    DeeKei polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah, if you can work at home or something, it's understandable, but having to relocate with no support is a very risky choice to make. If you knew someone at Austin or something, then it would make stuff alot easier, but id hesitate if its all by yourself and if you are very far away from where you live or have any reliable contacts.
  • Rico
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    Unfortunately, I had to decline. They weren't willing to offer any more and there is no way I could live on that with my bills. Hopefully something better will come along soon. Thanks again everyone.


    Sorry it didn't work out. But I think you did the right decision.

    You'd just be living with too much stress, stress of a new job and then not making enough to pay all your bills, not worth it imho.

    Just keep at it dude.
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