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Marijuana has no medical use...

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  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    seems like a BS study, iv used it to settle my stomach while going threw chemo, and it worked better than any other drug considering the rest of them had some side effects that were a bitch to deal with.

    and the whole area about it not being safe, well seriously, it is impossible to OD even if you were trying, and has not addictive.

    sure you shouldn't be driving or anything like than when baked out of your tree, but there are tons of legal drugs that are the same.


    but than again i don't care too much about the study living in Canada, in a province that really doesn't give a shit about this law.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Meh I smoked once for shits and giggles, the low productivity was not my style and I never did it again. If im not at home doing art im mad.

    Honestly, if they're sick, let them smoke. It did make me very tired though, and thats the only use I saw.


    Actually passerby, you can OD, it takes 15 thousand pounds (you're metric though) of THC to kill someone. Thats impossible to consume at once though :)
  • konstruct
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    konstruct polycounter lvl 18
    edit* screw it

    Indicas:
    slow you down, relax you and aid in sleep. no paranoia

    Sativas:
    make you feel energetic, but can have effects paranioa
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    my point frell you would fall asleep long before ever getting close the amount needed, little line never being able to afford it in the first place, or finding a way to burn or vaporize that much of it, or considering how fast it greens, have a large enough lung compacty to take in enough to be harmfull.

    it is actually a very very weak drug when put beside alcohol.
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 12
    I suggest if you want Marijuana to pass, you also have to accept it's faults, and learn about that them before a discussion.

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    ya thats why where i live i really don't care if it gets legalized or not, the status quo seems to work. unless you do something really stupid cops wont bother you.

    but that is more of a per province, per city thing, dont think that would quite fly in some other city's
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    "You could pass a law that lets 12 year olds carry concealed guns to school and it'd kill fewer people than drunk driving."

    great article ace, i've only done it once and don't care to again, so im probably fine, but its a fun read.
  • Joseph Silverman
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  • konstruct
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  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 12
    C'mon guys, I thought you peeps were smarter than that, only one of you guys got it. It's Cracked article, everything they say needs to be taken with a truckload of salt, but that doesn't mean you cannot use what they're talking about as a footnote to get your research done for real stuff from other sources.

    I know Marijuana is used for Chemo in many places, but did you know after a while the effects wear off the person can be in greater pain then before? Or if they build a tolerance quickly enough, than it's a moot thing? Yet many people harp like it will cure cancer or kill all the pain? I would know this since one of my family members went through this.

    Mein point eis simple: Stop making Marijuana into the Harbinger of Death or the Second Coming of the Messiah, it's simply a plant which has mediocre benefits at best and misuse by individuals at worst. It doesn't affect me personally, but it sure would be nice for both sides to admit that's it's nothing special.

    On the other hand, Green Tea...that bitch kills if you don't have the raised pinky.
  • giles
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    Feds also still allow tobacco & obesity to go unchecked. Yet both kill many more than smoking a plant classified as a weed. Makes a lot of sense... It's always about the money, the rest is b.s. States rights my ass...
  • DeeKei
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    DeeKei polycounter lvl 12
    In their defense, you need to correlate the ratio of the deaths to the people who are actually using it. Granted, I would think that a fresh unprocessed marijuana would be safer than a tobacco, but like everything, moderation is the key.

    EDIT: Now that I think that, if it does induce people to become addicted, well that is a problem.
  • Mathew O
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    Mathew O polycounter
    My girlfriend finished writing her dissertation on this about 2 months ago and she basicly ended up arguing that although she will never use Canabis and doesn't condone its casual use that it should be legalised in order to make it far safer for those that do and will always use it no matter how much the government doesn't want them to.

    I guess eventually they might decide that people are too clever and creative to stop if they really want to do something and atleast if they did legalise it, control it and clean it up they could tax the crap out of it :P
  • low odor
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    low odor polycounter lvl 17
    Weed is about as dangerous as alcohol, with the exact same trappings if it is abused. The Feds are taking this stance because they have been paid to, because the big pharm corps don't want sobby sally to stop taking her pills
  • sneakymcfox
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    low odor wrote: »
    Weed is about as dangerous as alcohol, with the exact same trappings if it is abused. The Feds are taking this stance because they have been paid to, because the big pharm corps don't want sobby sally to stop taking her pills

    I wouldn't go so far as to say it's as dangerous as alcohol Long-term_effects_of_alcohol however it is easily abusable and does have some quite severe long term side effects.

    I'm not sure about your second point though, I do partially agree and yes it's nice to think in a world of evil big pharma and the good little guy but I think the primary reason is old people and right wingers, the sort of people who defeat it in referendums and always vote. While you might find it a little difficult to find a large group of people who oppose marijuana legalization on an artist forum in the real world things are different. http://youtu.be/XbVhbQPblNY?t=3m3s that might be relavant :)

    Personally I'm for legalising it, Don't see why not if your gunna leave alcohol and cigs legal.
  • low odor
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    low odor polycounter lvl 17
    There are plenty of states where the People have made Medicinal Chronic legal..but the feds refuse to recognize it...and excuse my tinfoil hat, but it comes down to money. You could draw a line to companies that are suppressing legalization because it would cut into their own markets

    edit: [tinfoil] Lamar Smith..the Rep that shot Down Barney Frank's legalization bill recived 48,000 from big Pharm, 30,3000 from Alchohol [\tinfoil]

    http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/industries.php?cycle=2010&cid=N00001811&type=I&newmem=N
  • Mark Dygert
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    I don't care about its medicinal uses, just re-industrialize it. Especially the no THC varieties, its stupid to keep up the prohibition on plants that can't get people high but have thousands of uses.

    We can grow enough paper in a season instead of cutting down 200 year old forests that aren't easily replaced.

    Quite a few varieties of plastic can be made from it, yea we can make plastic without fossil oil.

    You can use the oil for bio fuel which has a higher yield and easier processing time than corn and other bio fuels, it also grows faster.

    You can use it in building materials, everything from concrete to particle board.

    On a medical level I view it like alcohol, legalize it, tax it and regulate it. Don't drive drunk, or high. There end of story. It's the 200 year old law makers with 3 marbles rolling around in their skull that are afraid of the campaign smear ads that are too scared to do anything about it. They're too busy trying to pass legislation that makes it OK for corporations to donate unlimited funds to THEIR attack ads. You can't vote em out... you just have to wait them out...
  • XenoKratios
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  • Vitor
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    Vitor polycounter lvl 18
    I highly doubt it has any medical use... considering there are a lot of better studied alternatives, with better known side effects and more controlled production.

    Anyway, I always feel that this "legalize Marijuana for medical use" actions to be a big bullshit as I bet 99% of supporters just want it to have some fun (which I don't have any problem with by the way..) but just don't use the "medical" uses as an argument for that. Cocaine also has medical uses...
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Oxycontin

    Oxy is derived from opium, not coca.

    Mark is right on the spot in my book though.
  • Zpanzer
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    Zpanzer polycounter lvl 8
    Why anybody smokes marijuana or takes any kind of drugs is beyond me, but I guess that would be stupid of me to say since I enjoy drinking alcohol and getting wasted with my friends... However what do tick me of is that people buying unregulated, non-government accepted drugs support drug dealers which in return fucks the life of for so many people. That's the only big reason why I think it should be legalized like alcohol.. Every time somebody buy marijuana or cocaine etc. they put their money in the pockets of people who usually have a hand in fucking the lives of people. Gun shootings in Denmark has escalated and 99% of the time they are drug related. Good fucking job in my opinion.
  • Keg
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    Keg polycounter lvl 18
    All I am going to say is everyone should listen to this podcast: http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/?p=258

    Also people should go watch The Union: The business of getting high.

    http://www.theunionmovie.com/TheUnionWeb.html

    Both of the movie and the podcast go through the research and misinformation fairly well.
  • Zpanzer
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    Zpanzer polycounter lvl 8
    Alcohol = drug.

    So have we learned anything today, people? What makes things illegal, and stay illegal has very little to do with public safety, and more to do with social norms, and very much to do with money. If nazis tried, they couldn't have hoped to kill more people with hemp than cars do, yet why are cars legal? That's right. Money. No one seems interesting in addressing that, however. Funny how that worked out.

    Alcohol might be a drug, but that doesn't change the fact that it is legal and isn't destributed by alcohol lords in mexico and gangs who use guns and knives to protect their territory from competers.
    Marijuana might be safe, but it's the whole way it gets destributed that fucks it up. As I said in my previous post: Everytime you buy marijuana or any kind of ilegal drugs you're most likely supporting the gang environment.
  • Gilgamesh
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    I know Marijuana is used for Chemo in many places, but did you know after a while the effects wear off the person can be in greater pain then before? Or if they build a tolerance quickly enough, than it's a moot thing

    Both wrong in my case and having been to support group of recovering and those in treatment I've not heard such as well. Post proof or really just don't post about nothing you know about.
    We can grow enough paper in a season instead of cutting down 200 year old forests that aren't easily replaced.

    Quite a few varieties of plastic can be made from it, yea we can make plastic without fossil oil.

    You can use the oil for bio fuel which has a higher yield and easier processing time than corn and other bio fuels, it also grows faster.

    You can use it in building materials, everything from concrete to particle board.

    On a medical level I view it like alcohol, legalize it, tax it and regulate it. Don't drive drunk, or high. There end of story. It's the 200 year old law makers with 3 marbles rolling around in their skull that are afraid of the campaign smear ads that are too scared to do anything about it. They're too busy trying to pass legislation that makes it OK for corporations to donate unlimited funds to THEIR attack ads. You can't vote em out... you just have to wait them out...

    My thoughts exactly.

    Although I'm over my illness now I haven't touched it since then and never really intend to. it really DID help a ton. Not only combating nausea by it caused me to eat when normally I wouldn't be able to not only keep the food down by never ever felt like eating in the first place.
  • DarthBartus
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    The problem with pot IMO is not that it is dangerous, has severe long-term effects, or something, but it is addicting as hell. Addiction=deviotion to obtain more=lack of productivity=parasite of society. That's the reason why most drugs are illegal - junkies are simply useless. Coffeine, tobacco, and such have very mild effects and don't effect mental health of an idividual, don't f**k up their lives (well, maybe tobacco does, but it is not always the case). Alcohol, pot, hard drugs, on the other hand, make you useless, either periodically, or permanently. Why is alcohol legal is beyond me though (probably for the reasons Supper Happy Cow mentioned)...
  • ChrisG
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    Zpanzer wrote: »
    Alcohol might be a drug, but that doesn't change the fact that it is legal and isn't destributed by alcohol lords in mexico and gangs who use guns and knives to protect their territory from competers.
    Marijuana might be safe, but it's the whole way it gets destributed that fucks it up. As I said in my previous post: Everytime you buy marijuana or any kind of ilegal drugs you're most likely supporting the gang environment.

    Your post is bordering on retarded.

    The reason weed is distributed as it is because its illegal, make it legal and you take it out of gang hands and those 'lords in mexico and gangs who use guns and knives to protect their territory from competers.'

    Seriously use your head.
  • ChrisG
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    The problem with pot IMO is not that it is dangerous, has severe long-term effects, or something, but it is addicting as hell. .

    Right ok I dont know how to say this without incriminating myself but fuck it, it really isnt like you say unless you abuse it, but that can be almost ANY substance. Stop eating the crap people are feeding you.
  • pestibug
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    idiotic americans, clearly this thread needs some Dutch sanity! Get out your cooking gear and into the kitchen with you guys!

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3TDtcJnWzk[/ame]
  • Zpanzer
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    ChrisG wrote: »
    Your post is bordering on retarded.

    The reason weed is distributed as it is because its illegal, make it legal and you take it out of gang hands and those 'lords in mexico and gangs who use guns and knives to protect their territory from competers.'

    Seriously use your head.

    hey, if you read my first post, you would see I agree with you there.. I said it was only big reason why I think it should be legalized.
    Zpanzer wrote: »
    However what do tick me of is that people buying unregulated, non-government accepted drugs support drug dealers which in return fucks the life of for so many people. That's the only big reason why I think it should be legalized like alcohol..
  • passerby
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    @Zpanzer, ChrisG, both alcohol and tobacco are legal and there is still organized crime around it selling it for cheap and un taxed, it will put a dent in crime that surrounds it but wont stop it.
  • Zpanzer
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    passerby wrote: »
    @Zpanzer, ChrisG, both alcohol and tobacco are legal and there is still organized crime around it selling it for cheap and un taxed, it will put a dent in crime that surrounds it but wont stop it.

    I can't speak for any other countries, but I've never heard about organized crime selling alcohol where its legal to buy and brew :s
  • Vitor
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    "It's not about whether or not it has medical use. It's about money."

    Super Happy Cow, or point with oxycontin-heroine is pointless... it's not because they are from the same pharmacological group that they are all the same.

    The authorization for medical use of any substance needs more then some "proved" benefits, and far better drugs have been failed by FDA because of some minor concerns (and I don't see anyone protesting on that)... Marijuana comes from an industry with zero quality control or regulamentation, there are no serious controlled trials, it's addictive and there are a lot of social concerns.

    Legalize it for fun? I don't really care... for medical use? still think its bullshit!
  • shotgun
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    i think what's missing is education. It's not about weather a drug is legal or not, but how it is used. From the usage comes negative or positive outcome, so that's where the emphasis should go to. How r "they' to decide what is legal (right? wrong? accidental relationship at best) or not. It's up to the ppl anyways.
  • moof
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    Seems to me pot will put a dent on the pharmaceutical business of peddling pills to people. Since the medical industry is in bed with government, I'm not surprised pot is still being treated as if it were actually dangerous in some sort of way.


    If you haven't figured this out by now here it is: pots not dangerous. You've been lied to.

    If pot is dangerous and needs to be illegal, then we should be making a shit ton of other things illegal as well. Cars should be illegal, 'cause damnit they kill more people every year than pot does.
    Actually, all those pills you're getting from the doctor, for the most part should be illegal- they kill more people every year.

    Alcohol- illegal.
    Cigs- illegal.
    Fast food- illegal.
    Knives/Guns-illegal.
    Animals- illegal.
    Weather- illegal.
    People- illegal.

    Seems to be government shouldn't be in the business of legislating morality, 'cause that's the only string left concerning why pot is illegal; some moral qualm about its legitimacy in society. Give me a break.
  • Two Listen
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    I've always just felt...

    Use drugs and medicine when you're sick to help you get healthier. And if you're not sick, don't do it.

    Has always worked for me. And probably pretty much everyone else who's ever tried it, ever.
  • Del
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    Del polycounter lvl 9
    Two Listen wrote: »
    I've always just felt...

    Use drugs and medicine when you're sick to help you get healthier. And if you're not sick, don't do it.

    Has always worked for me. And probably pretty much everyone else who's ever tried it, ever.

    ~ Argument has a flaw.

    Aspirin - Taking 1 a day is proven to keep the blood slightly thinner, greatly reducing stroke and heart attack risks.
  • Two Listen
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    Dreamer wrote: »
    ~ Argument has a flaw.

    Aspirin - Taking 1 a day is proven to keep the blood slightly thinner, greatly reducing stroke and heart attack risks.

    If you're at risk for those things, then I'd count that under the whole "to help you get healthier" thing. And aspirin isn't the only way to reduce those things by a long shot.
  • makecg
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    Ok I have to be in this thread and say. I am extreamly high right now and marijuana is my friend. I need to have it legitalized
  • Stinger88
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    As a mid thirties yeaar old who smoked a shit load of pot in my teens. I'd love to have it legalised so that I could just walk into a shop and buy it maybe once just to revisit the good ol days.

    Truth is, pot and CS1.6 where the 2 major contributing factors to me failing college the first time round. I was young, immature and lazy. Pot only aided that laziness, so I spent 10 years bumming around in other meaningless jobs before I got off my arse and went back to college. This time pot free but this time I had CS source, but only a little.

    I'd like to have the choice to buy pot if I wish. And I think it should be freely available. Alcohol is far worse after all. But I think the only real winners in making it legal will be lazy teenagers and chavs. And it will only make them more lazy.

    It should definitely be legal for medication. If a substance can aid someone who is ill, then why not.
  • McGreed
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    Just to put some things in perspective, if we have to ban something that kills people we should start with cars, since they kill people every hour, in every country. ;) Saying that, I don't smoke so hey, free pot or not, I like my beer and wine, and I know a lot of people ends up on hospitals because of those (not personally, just saying in general), and its not illegal but regulated.
  • I_R_Hopo
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    I_R_Hopo polycounter lvl 14
    I see the argument coming from a few people that addictive = bad. You do realize that ANYTHING that gives any positive stimulus in your brain can be addictive, right? You can become mentally addicted to literally anything that makes you feel good. For example, I'm addicted to using my computer. Just because something is addictive doesn't mean we should make it illegal though. Is the argument that physically addicting substances should be illegal? Well then a lot of drugs should be legalized, because many are not physically addicting in any way (For example, psychedelics). No substance should ever be illegal. People should be free to choose what they ingest and do to themselves. If someone is stupid enough to eat something that kills them, that's their own fault.
  • Calabi
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    McGreed wrote: »
    Just to put some things in perspective, if we have to ban something that kills people we should start with cars, since they kill people every hour, in every country. ;) Saying that, I don't smoke so hey, free pot or not, I like my beer and wine, and I know a lot of people ends up on hospitals because of those (not personally, just saying in general), and its not illegal but regulated.

    They've banned(restricted access to) Antimony, Mercury, Thallium and other poisons because they harm people. They were used for years, in treatments that were supposed to heal people but were actually harming them.

    People dont always know what they are doing, they dont generally behave sensibly. I dont care what people do to harm themselves but smoking isnt a purely passive thing. The smoke can harm others and possibly even the environment. We dont even really understand what these drugs like marijuana do. We've already made the mistake so many times of using elements excessively that we dont fully understand.

    I dont think they should make it illegal to try though. They should keep it illegal to grow manufacture and sell the drugs. They should use social engineering to deter people from taking them.
  • ChrisG
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    So it has no medical use yet they have invented synthetic THC, marinol for one
    http://www.justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marinol.html

    The argument on the site is that smoking is bad, thus it is illegal. So if I was it make space cakes surely then thats fine right?
    urgh the sense of Hypocrisy is killing me.
  • kanga
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    pestibug wrote: »
    clearly this thread needs some Dutch sanity!

    Ha ha, that was great! Lekker, lekker, lekker :)

    We have a coffee shop down the street. There are a couple of myths to dispel and a couple to confirm. Weed heads are not pinwheel eyed hippies, they are business men and women, they work for the council, they work for the government, maybe they don't work at all. People who smoke weed are all ages, all shapes and sizes, and er all colours. The coffee shop is busy in the weekend, but not as busy as the pub.

    The government and the church are told by crime that weed must be banned. It's easy to grow (duh it a weed!), easy to supply but if it becomes legal the bottom will drop out of the market, simple as that. Added to this, contraband products gain a fascination bonus which also aid sales.

    If in doubt learn from history.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States
  • TomDunne
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    Or, you know, maybe you should keep it there. The ignorant will do well in the future.

    I've never seen such an antagonistic pot advocate. And here I thought you all just got the munchies.
  • percydaman
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    Caffeine, I would say, is as addictive as marijuana, and frankly I'm not sure how medically beneficial it is. Also nobody is going to convince me that marijuana doesn't have benefits medically. Now whether its as effective as other 'legal' drugs, that's another story. All drugs have side effects, even marijuana. Somebody earlier in the thread said it makes them tired. That's a side effect.

    I wish the government would realize that making marijuana illegal is really no different then when they started prohibition on alcohol. It didn't work. I think I read somewhere that pot use among the Dutch, is down alot. After a high initial use, people have gotten bored with it, and found better uses for their money.
  • Calabi
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    Calabi polycounter lvl 12
    You realize it's been around for thousands of years, right? It's not some kind of magical new "what the fuck is this shit" plant.

    Ahahahahah. What?! Okay. Time to start skipping over these kinds of comments.

    Alternet article: Why do the police have tanks?

    Police raids increase yearly, now up to 40,000 raids a year, from 3,000 in the 80's, "many of which are to deliver search warrarnts."


    If you're still thinking that the U.S. government simply keeps so many drugs illegal because it's harmful, then you need to pull your head out of the sand ;)

    Or, you know, maybe you should keep it there. The ignorant will do well in the future.

    Neither were those other things I mentioned, they were used as medicines, for thousands of years, turns out oops, they were poisonous.

    I agree its not illegal because of harm but because of economy. Stoned people dont work hard enough, and all the other money thats in it now but, sometimes people need to be protected from themselves or they will hang themselves and everyone around them(probably!).

    I dont care if you smoke, whatever.
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    got too 2nd Super Happy Cow,i know tons of very hardworking people form school and work who also smoke a lot of chronic.

    sure if you already got a lazy personality it will make it worse, but i haven't seen it actually make people lazy who normally arent.
  • Keg
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    Keg polycounter lvl 18
    Wrong again. Most of the hardest working people I knew in college were stoners, and motivated me to work hard, also. The lazy people I knew that smoked pot were lazy before they smoked it.

    This.

    So many people like to blame their short comings on something other than themselves. Bad memory, it's the weed's fault. Anger issues? that's alcohol's fault.

    I admit I can be lazy. I never blame weed for that. I would put more blame on muscular dystrophy always leaving me tired.

    People hate to admit they have issues so they toss the blame onto drugs or anything that isn't them.

    Also, I've noticed on the BBC shows about cannabis, all the idiots claiming it's addictive are smoking spliffs. Aka tobacco and cannabis together. Nevermind the fact that tobacco is a well known and quite addictive substance, it has to be the weed that's addictive.
  • Calabi
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    Calabi polycounter lvl 12
    Wrong again. Most of the hardest working people I knew in college were stoners, and motivated me to work hard, also. The lazy people I knew that smoked pot were lazy before they smoked it.

    Also, those things were used for thousands of years because they lacked access to extremely advanced methods of scientific research. Your point that we "know nothing about it" is absurd, because we do know a lot about it. And if we didn't, that's why uhhh, research exists.



    Ahahahah. You go get those naughty naughty criminals who wanted to light up on their couches.

    When people are being thrown in prison for jay walking I'm sure you'll be saying the same thing.

    I wasnt saying that it would effect productivity(or maybe I was) but those in power think that it will.

    We dont know enough about the drugs effects because we dont know enough about the brain. I just dont think its wise to go using something willy nilly without full facts. There are lots of materials that are restricted for good reasons.

    I think you may be confusing this issue with something else. I know your country is messed up with the massive prison population and the private prisons with the slave populations but thats a seperate issue. I dont think people should be put into prison for using them, just incentives and encouragements to dissuade people using them.
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