My grandmother is on medical marijuana due to extreme pain in her foot (I can't remember the exact medical name for what she has) and it has helped her immensely. She started with a bunch of other over the counter drugs and none worked, but marijuana die and it is dirt cheap compared to some of the other drugs.
Like it was said earlier, the only reason it is not legal is because the pharmaceutical industry is in bed with the government. Marijuana will never be legal until the pharmaceutical industry will stop paying the government which will never happen. The United States government is corrupt beyond belief. It's a fucked up situation.
I have epilepsy and found that marijuana definately helps. Low levels of THC and CMD do decrease seizures and a reliance on anti-seizure drugs.
Unfortunately, the more THC you take in the more you seem to want, and when you have too much THC it can lead toward more seizures and other problems. So it is obviously about balance.
Anyway, I very rarely smoke any more, as frankly I can't afford it and am not sure about medical marijuana in the UK.
tried to stay away from this because its' such a touchy subject, and employers DO frequent our community but I'm gonna throw a couple thoughts out just for consideration....
Regardless of what you think are positives or the negatives, just acknowledge that this board is visited by some very successful individuals who have decided for themselves whether or not this substance has benefited their lives or not.
you could substitute cannabis with any other chemical (ex: add meds, ssri's ect...), or natural substance and the argument would be the same. If it has had a positive impact on your life then all the better.
i'd like to elaborate, but that's a more "in person" kind of conversation...
take each individuals opinion with a grain of salt and decide for yourself.
Correlation does not equal causation. Just because you're under the impression it helped you, doesn't mean it *actually* helped you. Until there is a peer-reviewed scientific study that directly connects the benefits of Marijuana in medical use I am rendered skeptical. NOW -- is it likely ANY scientific institute would meddle with such a hot potato? Probably not.
I'm not saying I'm for or against, because I'm not really educated on the subject matter other than Wikipedia but some of the responses are borderline irrational. Whenever I see such hot-levered responses it makes me suspicious because it means someone is under strong belief that he is correct, whether he actually is it or not he's hell-bent on making sure he's NOT wrong.
How come people are so convinced that this is the shit -- when we know so little about it, other than subjective accounts (which is a poor measuring stick to draw from) ?
Again -- I'm not for or against, I've never actually discussed this issue in depth because I hold such an unpopular stance: "You're so narrow minded" (I haven't been able to discuss the matter without it resort to ad hominem argumentation), I am just a naturally skeptical person to *anything* that degrades your body (be it alcohol, tobacco or fructose).
Police raids increase yearly, now up to 40,000 raids a year, from 3,000 in the 80's, "many of which are to deliver search warrarnts."
If you're still thinking that the U.S. government simply keeps so many drugs illegal because it's harmful, then you need to pull your head out of the sand
Or, you know, maybe you should keep it there. The ignorant will do well in the future.
America is far from the only country in the world and last time I checked, neither of the European countries have militarized police forces.
And enlighten me on what effects Marijuana have on the people and the environment? You seemed to think it was a no-brainer that you actually skipped that argument, could you tell me?
I think wherever weed can replace Meds as a remedy for pain/sleeping/ADD/anxiety It should be.
We have a history that clearly shows marijuana is not harmful to people (the environment.. maybe but.. really?)
And yet we are so willing to try this 'new' drug that just barely passed FDA screening, and could possibly have such dire consequences as suicide?
Ill post this again http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Generation_RX/70120653?trkid=2429428#height2279
To me the answer is simple and really needs no debate.
i don't get the "we don't know enough about it argument yet", it has been part of society a hell of a lot longer than all these prescription drugs, that are being quickly approved by FDA and pushed by doctors, which can have some side effects that are much worse than what there trying to fix in the first place.
i don't get the "we don't know enough about it argument yet", it has been part of society a hell of a lot longer than all these prescription drugs, that are being quickly approved by FDA and pushed by doctors, which can have some side effects that are much worse than what there trying to fix in the first place.
Alright, then let's adopt every bushman's method to medecine and see where that will lead us. FDA is corrupt., America is not the only country and when it comes to morals is a poor measuring stick.
We don't know enough about it but there is a strong indication that it damages the neuropsychological pathways and even has residual long term effects to cognitive and creativity skills. Why, as a creative person, would anyone trade their mind to be relaxed, even if's just a TINY chance of residual neuropsychological damage? So far, Marijuanas _only_ remedy I've seen is for anxiety and stress. I can come up with several alternative ways of relieving stress than psychoactive drugs (excercise, meditation) with only one side-effect. It takes dedication and time O_o crazy concept I know, why work for something you can get without effort?
Hey -- I'm not attacking marijuana advocators -- It's just that, I don't really see (or know) the true benefits of Marijuana other than relaxation. Maybe making it legal would remove many of the negative footprints it has on society. However, when people say with outmost conviction that it's NOT harmful.. That's flatout BULL-SHIT to win an argument, because you simply cannot know that.
Alright, then let's adopt every bushman's method to medecine and see where that will lead us. .
Pharmaceutical medicines arent plunked from the air you know that? Alot of these 'bushmen' or what you call it methods are used because they work and you will find similar substances in western drugs.
Where do people get the assumtion that if its not in pill form it doesnt work.
you mentioned this documentry, which is fucking awesome and super interesting: seriously, anyone even participating in this thread should watch even just the 1st couple mins of it. very interesting points.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoK6NztH3eQ[/ame]
If there ever was a person in desperate need of finding a way to relax... I think you're him... seriously.
Re-industrialize it, hell even limit the varieties to non THC versions of the plant. Regulate it, like any other legally controlled substance like cigarettes and alcohol.
Personally I think its a weak society that thinks its people can't handle substances and has to bubble wrap its citizens and round off all the corners as if we're toddlers. If you educate your people properly there isn't a problem. You also have the taboo effect that helps drive peoples curiosity and its popularity.
What people do in their own time is their business so long as it doesn't negatively impact other people. People need to be just smart enough to know when it will impact someone else and plan accordingly, just like they do when they party with booze...
Sure some people abuse substances, those people also have problems all kinds of other things that are perfectly legal. People with addictive personalities always find something to be addicted to. If it's not cigarettes, its coffee or sex or eating or video games, bla bla bla Everything can be dangerous if taken to an extreme or used in excess so do we then limit everything?
It seems like the simpler and easier solution is to educate people and encourage common sense and level headed thinking instead of excess and binge behavior... but hey maybe we should outlaw funnels and tubing, oh and ping pong balls! They're all used in the devils games! heh...
With the proper education and understanding the people with a problem don't have to ruin for the rest of the people who don't have issues.
Its like someone being allergic to flowers, UT-OH Bob's nose gets runny when there are flowers, QUICK ban all flowers! How about Bob's keeps his nose out of the flowers so the rest of without a problem can enjoy the flowers?
IMO Legalization is going to happen eventually, everyone continues to push for its legalization harder and harder each year. It's definitely going to happen in the next 10 years.
EDIT: This is more than just interesting, this is big for the pro-marijuana movement. Not just big, but the biggest thing to ever happen for the cause....
"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It marks the first time that members of Congress have introduced legislation to eliminate the federal criminalization of marijuana since the passage of the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937."[/FONT]
My friend is a neurosurgeon at a major university and the research he has access to is staggering. There is no official research that exists that states that the chemical in weed, THC, is harmful in any way. There is however an ass-ton of research proving how beneficial it is for a ridiculous variety of ailments.
It has the most medical uses out of any plant in the world, and that is the real issue with its legalization. Big pharma doesn't like that.
I don't think it will be legal until there's a way to control it and monetize it, while making it illegal for individuals to grow it.
If you don't understand what that means, that literally means it will not be legal unless someone forces you to buy it, while preventing you from doing it yourself in order to maintain control.
Might be a stretch, but the way things are going, that certainly seems to be the main barrier in getting it passed.
We need do destroy corporate person-hood as soon as possible if we ever want to help ourselves in any way.
You can brew your own beer and make your own hard alcohol.
This bills really does this in a smart way - it basically wants to put weed in-line with alcohol in regards to how the country regulates and sells it. No using while driving, 21+, possibly no usage in public like alcohol mostly is except for a few places like Vegas....
Need to go with the recreational approach to the argument though, again like alcohol.
You can brew your own beer and make your own hard alcohol.
true- but when your trying to sell said home brew beer, i`m sure there's some some regulations as to how you can sell the product produced.
Right now even for medical use, there is 0% regulation. FDA has no hands in it making it still pretty damn shady for recreational use. All kinds of weird growth methods are used to increase yield and potency. Hash production seems to be even more of a circus, with the cultivation methods creating potency levels never seen before.
Edibles are even more retarded. That stuff is food, but Dispensaries treat it like weed. That brownie you just bought could be several months old. Its a joke.
Regulation is the next logical step me thinks.
Sadly, at the end of the day its what ever the federal government wants to do with it. Just recently there was a scare in Colorado where the federal government was going to start prosecuting the state workers that were processing redcard applications and dealing with the state taxation of dispensaries.
Yes the state sees money, but until the federal government starts seeing some of that profit, I think there will always be friction.
if someone wants to get off work and smoke a blunt, so be it. its costing the government tremendous amounts of money trying to "fight the war on drugs" while drug users increase daily. we spend money to keep "criminals" in jail for getting busted with a gram of herb.
there should be absolutely no reason weed cant be put under the same category as cigarettes or alcohol, especially considering the fact that, when eaten or vaporized, marijuana has no long lasting side affects, or impacts on your health.
and trust me, patients get more benefits from getting stoned than shoveling mounds of prescription drugs down their throats, which all have terrible side affects associated with them.
in a country where people eat pills with side effects including DEATH and "suicidal thoughts" just to relieve depression... I think we can all agree that smoking pot should be allowed
and the amusing part about companies trying to do drug testing on employees that, it really only screens for weed since most hard drugs leave your system pretty fast but weed can store in your body fat for upwards of a month.
so the drug tests are more or less just about weed and nothing else.
I don't think it'll pass. Most Americans are "educated" about drugs and have been told that marijuana is dangerous, For some reason, a lot of us just can't get it through are heads that a bit of trees won't do any harm.
It's funny, though, how our country lets us use drugs like salvia but not weed.
in a country where people eat pills with side effects including DEATH and "suicidal thoughts" just to relieve depression... I think we can all agree that smoking pot should be allowed
I think the whole criminalization of weed thing in america is pretty silly, BUT the counterargument of 'it's natural, so it's safe' is even worse. Do you realize how many completely natural substances there are that will kill you?
of course it's harmful, however in my view it's no more harmful than alcohol.
Find me fucking evidence of cannabis being actually harmful. Alcohol causes liver damage among other issues, there is ZERO fucking evidence I've seen of cannabis causing damage of any extent near that of alcohol.
Find me fucking evidence of cannabis being actually harmful. Alcohol causes liver damage among other issues, there is ZERO fucking evidence I've seen of cannabis causing damage of any extent near that of alcohol.
Well generally it's not for your lungs to inhale anything that's been burning as far as I know. It might not have the tar like a normal cigerate, but CO2 and all the other remains from burning paper can't be super healthy for your lungs.
I've been drinking alcohol for around 3 years now, and my current condition is fine, same could be said about my dad who's been doing it alot longer then I have, and as far as I'm concerned, his habit of smoking cigerates has caused his body more harm then the alcohol.
Well generally it's not for your lungs to inhale anything that's been burning as far as I know. It might not have the tar like a normal cigerate, but CO2 and all the other remains from burning paper can't be super healthy for your lungs.
I've been drinking alcohol for around 3 years now, and my current condition is fine, same could be said about my dad who's been doing it alot longer then I have, and as far as I'm concerned, his habit of smoking cigerates has caused his body more harm then the alcohol.
So, let's see. Something that isn't cannabis such as rolling papers is proof of cannabis causing harm? Personal evidence of alcohol not harming you over 3 years is proof that liver problems don't occur in heavy drinkers?
That's fucking retarded. I'm done with this thread. Just more uninformed folks trying to claim shit that there's zero evidence for and backing it up with zero evidence.
Best use a Vaporizer, smoke causes respiratory problems, though the main argument that THC in itself is harmful is false.
"* No smoke! Is the number one benefit of using a vaporizer. As the medical marijuana vaporizes you will note that a thin mist of vapour is created at this lower 338 °F (170 °C) temperature. Compare that to a typical marijuana joint which burns at temperatures of up to 2,012 °F (1,100 °C) and in the process creates many harmful carcinogens. Smoke is the prime cause of lung cancer and many respiratory disorders."
So, let's see. Something that isn't cannabis such as rolling papers is proof of cannabis causing harm? Personal evidence of alcohol not harming you over 3 years is proof that liver problems don't occur in heavy drinkers?
That's fucking retarded. I'm done with this thread. Just more uninformed folks trying to claim shit that there's zero evidence for and backing it up with zero evidence.
you probably also point out respiratory problems with people who are heavy smokers, anyone that abuses anything that isn't in your body as a standard will cause you harm.. Heavy abusers of water may also cause harm to their body when they drown the cells... Marijuana most likely ain't harmfull in it self, but correct me if I'm wrong, but the prefered way of using the substance is through inhaling it through smoke which also contains the remains from the burning paper and anything in the air around it. So as Rai points out, a water vaporizer would be ideal.
I may be late to this party but on the whole Illegalizing of a plant thing..... that just ins't natural.
There's bigger reason's this plant is illegal. And when they bring up these types of test result, it just makes me chuckle, i mean, we use HEROINE for medical use... and i rest my case.
weed is awesome! weed and game art... even better!
"* No smoke! Is the number one benefit of using a vaporizer. As the medical marijuana vaporizes you will note that a thin mist of vapour is created at this lower 338 °F (170 °C) temperature. Compare that to a typical marijuana joint which burns at temperatures of up to 2,012 °F (1,100 °C) and in the process creates many harmful carcinogens. Smoke is the prime cause of lung cancer and many respiratory disorders."
absolute horse shit... a joint does NOT burn at the melting point of copper.
Replies
Like it was said earlier, the only reason it is not legal is because the pharmaceutical industry is in bed with the government. Marijuana will never be legal until the pharmaceutical industry will stop paying the government which will never happen. The United States government is corrupt beyond belief. It's a fucked up situation.
Unfortunately, the more THC you take in the more you seem to want, and when you have too much THC it can lead toward more seizures and other problems. So it is obviously about balance.
Anyway, I very rarely smoke any more, as frankly I can't afford it and am not sure about medical marijuana in the UK.
Regardless of what you think are positives or the negatives, just acknowledge that this board is visited by some very successful individuals who have decided for themselves whether or not this substance has benefited their lives or not.
you could substitute cannabis with any other chemical (ex: add meds, ssri's ect...), or natural substance and the argument would be the same. If it has had a positive impact on your life then all the better.
i'd like to elaborate, but that's a more "in person" kind of conversation...
take each individuals opinion with a grain of salt and decide for yourself.
100% in agreement, my main point was to simply keep and open mind and do your homework,
seriously not trying to offend anyones beliefs on this subject
I'm not saying I'm for or against, because I'm not really educated on the subject matter other than Wikipedia but some of the responses are borderline irrational. Whenever I see such hot-levered responses it makes me suspicious because it means someone is under strong belief that he is correct, whether he actually is it or not he's hell-bent on making sure he's NOT wrong.
How come people are so convinced that this is the shit -- when we know so little about it, other than subjective accounts (which is a poor measuring stick to draw from) ?
Again -- I'm not for or against, I've never actually discussed this issue in depth because I hold such an unpopular stance: "You're so narrow minded" (I haven't been able to discuss the matter without it resort to ad hominem argumentation), I am just a naturally skeptical person to *anything* that degrades your body (be it alcohol, tobacco or fructose).
America is far from the only country in the world and last time I checked, neither of the European countries have militarized police forces.
And enlighten me on what effects Marijuana have on the people and the environment? You seemed to think it was a no-brainer that you actually skipped that argument, could you tell me?
We have a history that clearly shows marijuana is not harmful to people (the environment.. maybe but.. really?)
And yet we are so willing to try this 'new' drug that just barely passed FDA screening, and could possibly have such dire consequences as suicide?
Ill post this again http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Generation_RX/70120653?trkid=2429428#height2279
To me the answer is simple and really needs no debate.
Alright, then let's adopt every bushman's method to medecine and see where that will lead us. FDA is corrupt., America is not the only country and when it comes to morals is a poor measuring stick.
We don't know enough about it but there is a strong indication that it damages the neuropsychological pathways and even has residual long term effects to cognitive and creativity skills. Why, as a creative person, would anyone trade their mind to be relaxed, even if's just a TINY chance of residual neuropsychological damage? So far, Marijuanas _only_ remedy I've seen is for anxiety and stress. I can come up with several alternative ways of relieving stress than psychoactive drugs (excercise, meditation) with only one side-effect. It takes dedication and time O_o crazy concept I know, why work for something you can get without effort?
Hey -- I'm not attacking marijuana advocators -- It's just that, I don't really see (or know) the true benefits of Marijuana other than relaxation. Maybe making it legal would remove many of the negative footprints it has on society. However, when people say with outmost conviction that it's NOT harmful.. That's flatout BULL-SHIT to win an argument, because you simply cannot know that.
Pharmaceutical medicines arent plunked from the air you know that? Alot of these 'bushmen' or what you call it methods are used because they work and you will find similar substances in western drugs.
Where do people get the assumtion that if its not in pill form it doesnt work.
[ame]
Re-industrialize it, hell even limit the varieties to non THC versions of the plant.
Regulate it, like any other legally controlled substance like cigarettes and alcohol.
Personally I think its a weak society that thinks its people can't handle substances and has to bubble wrap its citizens and round off all the corners as if we're toddlers. If you educate your people properly there isn't a problem. You also have the taboo effect that helps drive peoples curiosity and its popularity.
What people do in their own time is their business so long as it doesn't negatively impact other people. People need to be just smart enough to know when it will impact someone else and plan accordingly, just like they do when they party with booze...
Sure some people abuse substances, those people also have problems all kinds of other things that are perfectly legal. People with addictive personalities always find something to be addicted to. If it's not cigarettes, its coffee or sex or eating or video games, bla bla bla Everything can be dangerous if taken to an extreme or used in excess so do we then limit everything?
It seems like the simpler and easier solution is to educate people and encourage common sense and level headed thinking instead of excess and binge behavior... but hey maybe we should outlaw funnels and tubing, oh and ping pong balls! They're all used in the devils games! heh...
With the proper education and understanding the people with a problem don't have to ruin for the rest of the people who don't have issues.
Its like someone being allergic to flowers, UT-OH Bob's nose gets runny when there are flowers, QUICK ban all flowers! How about Bob's keeps his nose out of the flowers so the rest of without a problem can enjoy the flowers?
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=8600
IMO Legalization is going to happen eventually, everyone continues to push for its legalization harder and harder each year. It's definitely going to happen in the next 10 years.
EDIT: This is more than just interesting, this is big for the pro-marijuana movement. Not just big, but the biggest thing to ever happen for the cause....
My friend is a neurosurgeon at a major university and the research he has access to is staggering. There is no official research that exists that states that the chemical in weed, THC, is harmful in any way. There is however an ass-ton of research proving how beneficial it is for a ridiculous variety of ailments.
It has the most medical uses out of any plant in the world, and that is the real issue with its legalization. Big pharma doesn't like that.
You can brew your own beer and make your own hard alcohol.
This bills really does this in a smart way - it basically wants to put weed in-line with alcohol in regards to how the country regulates and sells it. No using while driving, 21+, possibly no usage in public like alcohol mostly is except for a few places like Vegas....
Need to go with the recreational approach to the argument though, again like alcohol.
true- but when your trying to sell said home brew beer, i`m sure there's some some regulations as to how you can sell the product produced.
Right now even for medical use, there is 0% regulation. FDA has no hands in it making it still pretty damn shady for recreational use. All kinds of weird growth methods are used to increase yield and potency. Hash production seems to be even more of a circus, with the cultivation methods creating potency levels never seen before.
Edibles are even more retarded. That stuff is food, but Dispensaries treat it like weed. That brownie you just bought could be several months old. Its a joke.
Regulation is the next logical step me thinks.
Sadly, at the end of the day its what ever the federal government wants to do with it. Just recently there was a scare in Colorado where the federal government was going to start prosecuting the state workers that were processing redcard applications and dealing with the state taxation of dispensaries.
Yes the state sees money, but until the federal government starts seeing some of that profit, I think there will always be friction.
This is the crux legalization.
We also have to deal with the fact the DEA and general law enforcement community sees cannabis as a jobs program for them.
They'll be pushing legislators, along with other industries interested in keeping it illegal.
It is good that we have states rights, and we can try things on our own... weird as it may be regulatory wise for everyone.
if someone wants to get off work and smoke a blunt, so be it. its costing the government tremendous amounts of money trying to "fight the war on drugs" while drug users increase daily. we spend money to keep "criminals" in jail for getting busted with a gram of herb.
there should be absolutely no reason weed cant be put under the same category as cigarettes or alcohol, especially considering the fact that, when eaten or vaporized, marijuana has no long lasting side affects, or impacts on your health.
and trust me, patients get more benefits from getting stoned than shoveling mounds of prescription drugs down their throats, which all have terrible side affects associated with them.
heres a longer version of the union
[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007[/ame]
"Breaking the Taboo" - A film in search of solutions for the failure of the war on drugs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXWdKsA8EFU
watched at cinema last night, is awesome.
so the drug tests are more or less just about weed and nothing else.
http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/krokodil_the_drug_that_literally_eats_junkies/
heres a taster- seriously gross shit
It's funny, though, how our country lets us use drugs like salvia but not weed.
of course it's harmful, however in my view it's no more harmful than alcohol.
Find me fucking evidence of cannabis being actually harmful. Alcohol causes liver damage among other issues, there is ZERO fucking evidence I've seen of cannabis causing damage of any extent near that of alcohol.
Well generally it's not for your lungs to inhale anything that's been burning as far as I know. It might not have the tar like a normal cigerate, but CO2 and all the other remains from burning paper can't be super healthy for your lungs.
I've been drinking alcohol for around 3 years now, and my current condition is fine, same could be said about my dad who's been doing it alot longer then I have, and as far as I'm concerned, his habit of smoking cigerates has caused his body more harm then the alcohol.
So, let's see. Something that isn't cannabis such as rolling papers is proof of cannabis causing harm? Personal evidence of alcohol not harming you over 3 years is proof that liver problems don't occur in heavy drinkers?
That's fucking retarded. I'm done with this thread. Just more uninformed folks trying to claim shit that there's zero evidence for and backing it up with zero evidence.
And so I don't follow that lead, some actual information here: http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3376
"* No smoke! Is the number one benefit of using a vaporizer. As the medical marijuana vaporizes you will note that a thin mist of vapour is created at this lower 338 °F (170 °C) temperature. Compare that to a typical marijuana joint which burns at temperatures of up to 2,012 °F (1,100 °C) and in the process creates many harmful carcinogens. Smoke is the prime cause of lung cancer and many respiratory disorders."
[ame]
you probably also point out respiratory problems with people who are heavy smokers, anyone that abuses anything that isn't in your body as a standard will cause you harm.. Heavy abusers of water may also cause harm to their body when they drown the cells... Marijuana most likely ain't harmfull in it self, but correct me if I'm wrong, but the prefered way of using the substance is through inhaling it through smoke which also contains the remains from the burning paper and anything in the air around it. So as Rai points out, a water vaporizer would be ideal.
+1 for vaporizers. My weed experience has gotten so much better since I've switched.
There's bigger reason's this plant is illegal. And when they bring up these types of test result, it just makes me chuckle, i mean, we use HEROINE for medical use... and i rest my case.
weed is awesome! weed and game art... even better!
absolute horse shit... a joint does NOT burn at the melting point of copper.
Im giggling at the fact that you're actually arguing that! lol
+2
:thumbup: