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Learning Anatomy

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  • Millah
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    Millah polycounter lvl 18
    What type of dude are you trying to make and what is your reference? Posting these two things would let us provide even more crits.

    Some observations based on the front view. These are measurements to use with your reference to improve your work, not rules to live by.

    1. Eyes are too high. Should be roughly in center of head. Check where they are on your reference.
    2. Head should be 5 eyes wide. Eyes should be 1 eye apart
    3. Don't have your dude looking off to the side. Eyes are very useful landmarks and by having them looking to the side you're making it harder on yoursef. Center of eyris typically is a little outside of the corner of the lips.
    4. Edge of nostrils and inside corner of eyes typically should line up, yours don't
    5. Eyebrows and top of ears should roughly line up
    6. Base of nose and bottom of ears should roughly line up.

    Look over Andrew Loomis - Drawing the Head and Hands some more. Study how he breaks down planes some more. Make a model based off of what you posted in post #24 in this thread. Then make another one and try to get it to look like a female. Don't rush, don't give up on something even if you think it looks like crap. Post more drawings. Take as long as it takes you to get it. The better you know the basics the better you can bend the forms to your will.

    Keep it up.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    How dare i forget the basic proportion principles of a head!! I had become so focused on muscles that i completely forget, even though ive known about them for a very long time.

    headds.png
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Ok, rip this apart while i work up another head:

    (Focused on front torso muscles right now)

    fm15pk.png
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Quick new head

    headht.png
  • Jungsik
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    Jungsik polycounter lvl 6
    i think your forehead is in of a extreme angle, also from your side view the chin comes out too much, your ear could be moved up more, its a bit back.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Lets call that last head a failure shall we? Ill work up another one from a type of face reference i havent used yet and see how different it will be.

    Comments on the torso above that picture?
  • bludragon
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    bludragon polycounter lvl 7
    torso looks good for a start, forms look pinched in areas...try using something other that the clay brush to define the forms, eg. the abs from the rig cage, also the illiac crest looks very inflated. Keep refering to reference if you dont get a a certain area.
    Btw what matcap did you use?
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Modified version of adam lewis's i found on the big matcap thread at zbrush central.
  • lampekap
    nice, how long does each head take u?
  • ceebee
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    ceebee polycounter lvl 14
    Just a suggestion, I would recommend desaturating your reference to better see the changes of angles in the head. Sometimes color can throw your perception off. Also what Pior said about the mouth still holds for your quick/new head studies. The lips aren't just a slice in the bottom 1/3rd of the face, they're overlapping planes. Most often than not the top lip flows behind the bottom lip to the inside of the mouth. It appears your heads don't seem to have much of lips at all, to be honest.

    Hope this helps, good luck. I've been trying to get my anatomy to a higher level as well.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Got my tablet today! Trying to get used to the pen, beats a mouse to a pulp.

    tabletx.jpg
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Haha I love this. So much easier with this than an actual pencil. I want to start a painting thread, but i dont want to give up on anatomy :)

    So.... how good is zbrush with tablets? ^^
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    More doodling practicing shading, ive had it for about 4 hours

    eye0.jpg
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Alright, time I come back to this. Didn't go into much detail with this sculpt, just tried to get a good body form. I used references for the entire thing, so just crit away on the torso here:http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1250136&postcount=56 and the one below.

    Head was just quickly done (It needs a ton more work if I was actually going to make it A+). Im personally satisfied with my head accuracy(not referring to this head) and I myself believe its enough to get the ball rolling but if anyone disagrees just let me know.

    Also trying to get used to the whole tablet-zbrush thing. Very cramping.

    Primary focus:
    Overall form (light)
    and torso

    anarh.png
  • Shiniku
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    Shiniku polycounter lvl 14
    The bottom of the torso seems to be getting a bit long, which is only emphasized by the shortness of the legs. I'd pull the whole hip area up a bit, and make the hip area deeper (on the y axis) as they're looking a bit dinky now. After you make some of those adjustments you'll probably have to adjust arm length as well.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Alright so it wasnt just my eyes about the hips, they do look off. Thanks for that.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Heres a new one, going for a more natural build.

    newguy.png
  • Shiniku
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    Shiniku polycounter lvl 14
    Where the legs connect to the hips is really odd. And that whole area looks a bit feminine.

    Also, pay close attention to the clavicle. It isn't just straight across like that. It has a bit of an S shape and curves around a bit. Also, how it's attaching to the deltoid is pretty odd. Well, that whole area really, the arms just seem to slope up to the base of the head like a hill. Take a closer look at how the muscles and bones connect there.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Im going to be honest about the hip. No matter how much reference I use I cant get it to look right, ill keep trying but I can already tell this is going to be the part of the anatomy ill be fiddling with everytime I create a character.

    Note about the clavicle taken, will do the entire thing again soon.

    I tried to make the head actually good this time, but knowing I had the entire body to do and that is was my main goal impaired my patience with the head. Had I planned this to be an actual character I would hopefully fix this my limiting myself to one region per day.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Guys i have a question about character development. When you create a full character, is the body and head one full mesh? Or can you split it around the neck to make interchangeable heads, but how does that affect sculpting?
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    more... significant progress

    2zziwr7.png



    Now to work solely on hands and feet (while taking crits on this) and just practice sculpting the entire body everyday like I have been
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Form comments?
  • Ged
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    Ged interpolator
    definitly better overall anatomy, its hard to say how well you have captured muscle groups as he seems to be old with floppy skin folds rather than real solid muscle mass.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Well I felt that when I sculpted straight on muscles It always looked very unnatural, so I tried to do a not so fit person and try to make his body look as relaxed and natural as possible. So now I can go back to muscles with a little bit more knowledge on "Ok so this will make the arms look more relaxed." etc.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Can anyone tell me why its so hard to get my base mesh bulky without messing up the proportions?

    2zoafb8.png
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Finally, phew. Damn
    2u5f4ls.jpg
  • Cap Hotkill
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    Cap Hotkill polycounter lvl 13
    I Think your main problem is that you add detail in a too high subd level.. try making the best out of the first levels of subdivision and then work on the details in the higher ones when your mesh is well defined.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    I Think your main problem is that you add detail in a too high subd level.. try making the best out of the first levels of subdivision and then work on the details in the higher ones when your mesh is well defined.
    The legs I did this yes, but not the torso. I was only planning on doing the torso but it came out better than I expected so I just went down and added in some leg muscles (which is where the brush strokes show, especially in the calf).

    Thanks SHC. I'd use 3DSK but Its not free, I do try to use google but its hard to ever see all the dimples that really sell the muscles. And, 'muscle pinch brush'?
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    After I myself finished working out, I went on a reference hunting spree on google and found 14 very good upper body images that capture every little detail (no fake bulky body builders, though).

    Going to work up another sculpt here in a minute.

    Just want to thank everyone who has posted on this thread, the most recent picture I made still surprises even myself because I never thought id reach even that exceptional quality (Which i believe would have passed if the character was wearing clothes :P). Im loving the progress im making and every new sculpt motivates me to crank out another.

    Thanks guys :)!


    Also, the hands, are they too small? My base mesh causes the fingers to shrink and its hard for me to re-flesh them out again. Im thinking of scaling the hand on my basemesh.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Lovin' every minute of it! boom dink chow chow!!!

    Think im getting good at the torso :P Those refs really paid off.

    mb4ton.jpg
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    Actually, the previous looked better. This one has pretty screwed up shoulders and the pecs look like saggy moobs.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    11446858898qt933.jpg



    Yea they come down a bit too much. Nothing a little move brush can't fix though.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Hows this? Ran out of time tonight but I still need to smooth out some areas to add flesh. I like this one more than the one before the last because the muscles feel like they have weight and actually look like theyre bulging out.10i70ox.jpg
  • Xendance
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    Xendance polycounter lvl 7
    The area between his belly button and crotch looks a bit weird :\
  • lampekap
    amazing progress :) upper torso looking pretty decent, but the back especially is lacking!
  • krisCrash
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    krisCrash polycounter lvl 9
    I hope it's okay that I do this:
    _10i70ox.jpg
    the male flank happens from the muscles from the pelvis and UP, on a woman the pelvis is usually wider so the muscles do not appear this way, but on a dude his hips are narrower giving the effect of these muscles flopping out a bit - but the thing is, they are ABOVE the pelvis, and you have them covering it. That is getting you that diaper shape and making his crotch huge.
    Frell's photo has a good example of these folds. I couldn't understand them much myself until I realized how they attach to the pelvis.
    Girls have them too, it just tends to fold a bit different from the wider pelvis - but once you know how it works you will spot them.

    edit: something that might be fun for you to try if you have difficulty establishing proportions, try some crazy ones to explore the phenomenon of proportion. Pushing anatomy to the extremes can help you know more about it.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Alright did some refining, the hips are still bad and im completely aware of this. I just want to make sure everything above the belly button is accurate right now and Ill move downward in more focus because I also have to tune up the legs a bit.

    2m6opad.jpg

    287n03t.jpg
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Had a tiny bit of extra time and did some hip modifications
    2n0nak5.png
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    Looking at this again, there's a lot more things looking really strange, such as the way the neck muscles are done. They're supposed to be attached behind the jaw, not merged with it.

    The way there's an extra crease running down from the outside of the clavicles is odd too. You're missing how the biceps disappears between/underneath the muscles of the lower arm - again you're merging the shapes. I'm not even gonna start on the legs/back.

    I'd say grab a good book (I like Sarah Simblet's "Anatomy for Artists") out of the library, bookstore, or off of a torrent and try to recreate a more normal/average person as perfect as possible instead of starting with huge blokes.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Oh yea lol the neck, needs to be redone. Got distracted while doing it.

    The crease running from the clavicle to the armpit is visible on the reference picture I posted above, but I overdid it and angled it wrong :s

    Ignore the legs and the back like I said before the picture. Those (to me) aren't nearly as difficult as getting the torso front and arms to flow nicely so ive put them off until im satisfied with it. Went back through my references and I found a picture that shows how the bicep should go under, and I do have it wrong.

    I have a good chunk of reference pictures that show how everything should be, but I think what im doing is pinpointing spots to fix and becoming oblivious to other possible mistakes.

    Thanks for all the crits though. Once I edit this mesh to a good point ill make a completely new one (hopefully this weekend). I find it funny how every character artist already on the forums seems to magically have all knowledge of anatomy, with no trace of even learning left behind. Just something I always wonder about lol.
  • Psyk0
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    Psyk0 polycounter lvl 18
    I recommend getting a skeleton mesh and sculpting each muscle on top as its own subtool, with proper origin and insertion. Follow along Zack's video, sculpt 1 muscle per day and post here for feedback, you won't see anatomy the same way when you're done. Learning important landmarks of the skeleton is a tremendous help and shouldnt be overlooked.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    Im wondering how I would do that from a technical level.. Who is Zack?
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/products/tutorials/zpe_series/

    The third one looks like a good deal, if he actually does go over every muscle. The last time I got a gnomon tutorial I was somewhat disappointed though.
  • MainManiac
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    shh guys wachin video
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    You are right Psyk0, Im only halfway through the video but I already feel like I know what is under the skin, not just what shows through the skin. This actually makes me want to thin out my basemesh to almost a skeletal blockout.
  • Psyk0
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    Psyk0 polycounter lvl 18
    As much as I agree with your avatar I gotta say 1 muscle a day (even a muscle group) sounds incredibly slow. He could probably get away with learning the entire thing in 2 days at most.

    Well i dunno how full his schedule is, plus my point is, if you are gonna study something you truely want to learn, why do it half assed?. Let's see quality over quantity. :)

    Sometimes i did spend 1 day, no not 8 hours, but whatever free time i had on 1 muscle, especially if it was more complex. Other times i would do a lot more because they were pretty straight forward.

    Frell: if you need a skeleton i can throw one your way.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    I see no use of a skeleton to put muscles onto, seems more like a hassle than a learning process. Ill stick with Zack's lecture where he goes over every single part of every major muscle in entirety. Not trying to be a dick or anything at all, I probably would learn something but Im not to hot with tons of subtools like that. Ill keep examining them though ;) Thanks for the offer.

    After watching half the video I did a quick sculpt, much comparable to my sculpts on page 3 because hes not very buff. I did this without references immediately after the video to see how much I remembered about each muscle, and because I dont have much time to make a medium build reference library
    21nidlz.png
  • Shaffer
    Psyk0 wrote: »
    I recommend getting a skeleton mesh and sculpting each muscle on top as its own subtool, with proper origin and insertion. Follow along Zack's video, sculpt 1 muscle per day and post here for feedback, you won't see anatomy the same way when you're done. Learning important landmarks of the skeleton is a tremendous help and shouldnt be overlooked.
    I think I might do this soon as my daily sculpting exercise, thanks for the tip. The video/model looks great.
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