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WIP- Dungeon/Ransacked castle environment

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  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah I agree with you both. I truly appreciate your professional critiques and I am working hard to get it looking right. I've adjust most of the issues you've mentioned, and It is definitely looking far better than I thought it would.
    Here's another small-ish update! Tomorrow should yield some more goodies!

    udk8.jpg
  • Delerium
    Hello Prophecies I have some feedback if you dont mind...
      You should get rid of the dark brick line that runs through the wall texture, my eyes are drawn to that.
      Your floor is still looking unnatural, the bricks are popping out to much...
      There is bricks in the roof section above statue, get rid of that and make it look like the rest of the roof.
      The column in the middle looks very tiny regarding the massive weight it holds.
      You should break up the brick wall with something else in the archways (alcoves with statues or doors for an example).
    The bird statue looks ace !
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks! I'll be working exactly what you mentioned tomorrow. (Well, later today at this hour :P)
    The archways will contain alcoves and a few of them will have tunnels leading somewhere else. I've yet to make the tunnel BSP's yet though. You read my mind regarding that! :P
    As for the floor, I was wanting to make it look like the foundations were somewhat weakened, and the floor would sink in where the pillars are at, giving off the wavy feel. I'll be adding some mortar +grass growing in between the bricks. I need to work on getting it more believable though.

    P.S. Of course I don't mind your feedback! I welcome it! :)
  • Bobby J Rice 3rd
    whoa, BIG improvement. Nice job dude.

    Same crits as Delerium pretty much.

    Arch frames are still kinda noisy.

    For the floor, check out that video i posted on page 2. Its the floor in the interior halls. Little is more. ;)
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 17
    much better... as delerium said take it a step further and reduce the AO multiplier in the bricks....actually you may want to do this in all your textures...i see alot of people doing this...they multip,ly there AO bake in over the top of their diffuse....personnaly when worjking with lightmass or anyother directional lightmapper you dont need to do this very much maybe 20% or so use the AO bake more for dirt passes etc...this will let the normalmaps work better and give you more coherent lighting and less emphasis on the smaller details

    also would think the arches would be nice if each arch with the arch was inset making them deeper...and if your going to add doors dont to everyone...maybe just the one in the centre of the shot as it will help with drawing the eye....having one in the one to the right will distract it
  • SimonT
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    SimonT interpolator
    i think it looks great
  • motives
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    motives polycounter lvl 18
    This might have been said but you should really think about the focus of your scene? im guessing that bad ass bird is the main feature yet i didn't see it until i jumped back to page 2 of this thread watching the renders with my initial thinking being "oh, cool model. Why dont he put that in the scene?"
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Small update. Got the tunnel, alcoves, extra vegetation, and spiderwebs in. Also tweaked the lighting to be slightly more colorful. However, I'm having issues with the vegetation. For some reason it is looking really bland. Maybe I need to work on the material some more? Anyone know some tutorial to get vegetation looking better? Or maybe this is the best I can get them to look?

    Regardless, crit and comment! :)
    udk16.jpg
  • haiddasalami
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    haiddasalami polycounter lvl 14
    Out of curiosity do you want the column to be the focal point?
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    You can try to set the Mipmaps of your veg textures to one of the sharpen modes, it's next to the LODGroups in UDK.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    @ Haiddasalami:No, it won't be. The angle of the camera for the final shot will be different, putting emphasis on the gryphon. I'm just showing it from this angle to show the entire room. This will also be filmed.

    @ParoXum: I'll give that a shot!
  • Mik3d
    I like the extrude in the wall, gives it some interest. I don't know if its just me but I think the bricks on the wall are too big. I would try and tile them a bit more and see what that looks like. (Preference)
  • Bobby J Rice 3rd
    The arches pop, but the bird is flat and the surface quality is not interesting. It needs character. Maybe play with the shaders more. Give it a grimy bronze look with wear and tear represented in the normal map and diffuse. It might also help to reduce the over all noise in the diff. Instead of scattering the grim all over, try strategically placing the dirt build up and let some clean non dirty area's show though more.

    I do, however, love the vine pillar. Maybe model in something alive and organic. Something growing throughout the room from the pillar. Something that would grow outwards and integrate into the floor, wrapping it's self around your individual popped bricks.

    Sorta like this: (scroll to time index 4:10)
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nPWRaUccf8&NR=1[/ame]

    I like the new wall bricks. But i would actually go bigger. Exaggeration of forms tend to look better in fantasy settings.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for the input guys! I plan on sticking with the gryphon for the focal point. But I'll try to work on him a bit. As for getting something organic in here, that is exactly what I was thinking. Some of the walls seem a little lonely in there. Not sure if I can get an entire tree in there realistically... but I'll see what I can do.
    Here is a small update. Rubble, subtle color grading, damaged ceiling and post processing! I'm pretty happy with the way this is turning out despite the fact that this is my first time in unreal. Ever. I need to work a little on making the damaged part of the ceiling slightly less smooth as well.

    udkgryphon.png
  • Ged
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    Ged interpolator
    thats looking beautiful, nice work!
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Yeah really looking good. If the hole in the ceiling is old, maybe you can add some ivy there.
  • brandoom
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    brandoom polycounter lvl 15
    Great work Prophecies.

    The addition of the stair case is great, it really adds some depth to the scene. I would suggest continuing the support arches up the stair case.

    I like ParoXum's suggestion of Ivy. How aged is this scene anyway?

    Keep up the awesome work :)
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Wow thank you for the positive comments guys! Really appreciated! :)
    This scene is pretty aged. I have something planned for the hole up there. Wait and see. ;)
  • mkandersson
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    mkandersson polycounter lvl 7
    I like your new close up shot a lot better then your previous shots. And I really like your statue. There is one thing that sticks out though and that is the hole in the roof. It looks like the ceiling is just a couple of cm thick and with that staircase going upwards on the side there It gives me the impression that it is a second floor on top of your corridor.

    Something I think could look good but I don’t know if that works with your final vision but having vines going up along side that empty wall there. Maybe crawling up trough that hole.
    Just a suggestion :P You probably already have something else in mind to cover that spot.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    You're getting warmer! I'll try to get a result up soon. ;)
  • Andrew Mackie
    Wow! Prophecies, this scene is amazing! I love the brick work you have on the floor. I'm guessing you did them in ZBrush [or a similar program], do you have any tutorials for doing them/know of any? I would love to know how to do them properly.
    :]
  • Bobby J Rice 3rd
    I think your getting there.

    - Bricks look good, but the black grout lines are way too dark. There is also this weird line of bricks that stand out more so than the rest. It would be nice to see some bricks popping in and out from geo.

    - Stairs, while not the focal point, are VERY blurry. You have alot of intended detail but no texel resolution to show it off.

    - The floor separation just does not read realistically to me. Any grout planned? The floor too is also blurry.

    Tip: If you took the same high rez bricks you used to bake to those low rez bricks and simply layed them out in a floor pattern to a 2x2 ratio, you can get the same result of the floor, but it will look better. If you tiled the floor and manually pop out bricks here and there with geo, it would look as sharp as your brick wall.

    Besides the brick wall, so far the best area's i think are the arches. But they too look like they would get blurry at 7 feet away much like the stairs and floor. The brick seems to be the only thing that holds up, resolution wise.

    Tip: If you are running out of time, I would tile a secondary low frequency normal map on top of some of the forms. It will at least "fake" the resolution abit and unify the sharpness alittle. This technique is not exactly the most ideal way of correcting texel resolution but it's quick.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    @Andrew Mackie: Thanks! I made these bricks in Mudbox, not Zbrush. But the worflow remains the same. Basically I sculpted 7 bricks, and baked them to a seven brick, low poly, tiling mesh. This is the workflow I used: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1140943&postcount=32

    @Crazyeyes: Once again, thanks for the tips! I am thinking of redoing a few sections to achieve a better texel resolution.
    I think the reason the brick is so much sharper is because it is being displayed on BSP's. Every flat wall section is a BSP, so by increasing the tiling, it doesn't look as blurry. I'll definitely try to make the stairs less blurry though.


    I'm almost ready for an update however!

    P.S. Yes there will be grout on the floor :)
  • Bobby J Rice 3rd
    Hence my previous comments of everything else using tiling textures instead of one offs ;)

    Looking good man. Keep it up. :)
  • cholden
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    cholden polycounter lvl 18
    Two illusion breakers: stairs have noticeably lower pixel density than everything around them, and bricks on wall seem noticeably tiled.

    You can quickly remedy this with decals, you can put these everywhere, hide every seam, make things look ransacked and more dungeony. If you open ExampleMap.udk, you can see examples of them used as stains all over the place, but they could be cracks in the wall, bits of paper on the floor and so on.

    ...And possibly some blending on the wall material as recently seen in teaandcigarettes' lovely scene: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74090

    Or you could try this
    http://www.chrisalbeluhn.com/UT3_Adding_Brick_Variation.html
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for the tip Cholden! I gave decals a try for the first time today! I like it! Is there a way to use spec on decals? It doesn't seem to work on my decal material.
    I will work on getting a nice volumetric godray in there to avoid using lightshafts for the sunlight. I feel I don't have much control over the bloom. I also need to figure out how to tone down the bloom overkill on the crystals in the background. I'm not liking it.

    Need to solve issues I am having with the spotlight I'm using as sunlight. It's not working the way it was previously, no clue why. A dominant directional wasn't giving the results I had hoped for, so that is why I am not using it.

    Also, I am debating on what to use on the far end wall. Here are my two choices:
    1. Use those arches and add actual doors indicating that this place actually leads somewhere, or
    2. Have a bare wall like my previous updates and add colorful banners. I'm just wondering if banners would steal attention from the statue.

    Anywho, here is my update! I'm pretty satisfied with the result thus far!

    udk19.jpg

    Any and all criticism appreciated! :D
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 17
    hmmm....
    nice but...
    roots like that would take decades to grow... and the castle would be in much worse nick....personally i would have popped round stolen the statue for all that gold
  • StJoris
    Been following your progress, you have come a long way :)
    The bricks look like your best texture, altho unbelievable in the arched section as constructive material. If you can make it look arch-supporting I'd choose that over the concrete look.

    Nitpick: Why does the extra support arch above the door terminate into going to the left only?
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for the comments guys! I definitely need to get a better/more dramatic lighting going on here, right now it is too flat, too boring and uniform. I need to play around with the lights and darks.

    @StJoris; What do you mean by the arch terminating into going to the left only? I don't get it.
  • Andrew Mackie
    The accents you have used are great, especially the cobwebs in the tunnel and arch.
    I would tone down the glow on the few things you have it on though, I feel like it draws the eye away from the whole piece.
    Looks amazing though.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Thank you! And yeah I agree about toning down the glow on a few things, the DoF really pumps that stuff up. Too much even. I think I need to get some more cobwebs here and there around the scene, really gives off a nice feel IMO. I also need to look into getting an animated godray with floating dust particles. Dustmotes. If I have the time, I really, really need to get some of those in there! :)

    Hopefully I can find a tutorial somewhere.
  • oobersli
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    oobersli polycounter lvl 17
    SHEPEIRO wrote: »
    hmmm....
    nice but...
    roots like that would take decades to grow... and the castle would be in much worse nick....personally i would have popped round stolen the statue for all that gold

    i'm sure they're magic roots. They grow like 5x faster!! ;)

    looking cool. would be nice to see some more breakup of the bricks, some missing bricks or dirt seeping through.
  • MainManiac
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    MainManiac polycounter lvl 11
    IMO you ruined it with the hole in the ceiling. I liked the feeling and mood of hollow submersion when you didnt know how far underground it was.

    Dont get me wrong, it still looks great.
  • MarcusF
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    MarcusF polycounter lvl 9
    Frell, if you liked his previous lighting/mood, I don't see why you don't like this. As far as I can tell, his lighting was done with the hole in mind. Where do you think that yellowish light came from? Certainly not from underground.

    Back on topic, I agree with you having a ways to go with the lighting. It looks good, but it still needs a little more love. I'm sure you'll make it though! I've enjoyed seeing your progress and this is a very inspiring scene. Saved to inspirations folder.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Small lighting update:
    udk22.jpg

    Frell: Thank you for your input :) I definitely agree with the deep underground cavern feel. I like it too. However, Marcus here is correct. The lighting I had previously done with the hole in mind. That yellow tint indicates sunlight.
  • AlanSMitchell
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    AlanSMitchell polycounter lvl 14
    sick dude! I love it
  • Call Me Snoopy
  • SimonT
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    SimonT interpolator
    I love it.

    But i would think about the brightness of the wall IN the left "tunnel". For me it's too bright - it looks like there would be an big open entrance where sunlight is floating into the dungeon. I would make it darker and as light source i would choose a scary green or orange light from a fire.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Well, I'm ready to call this one done folks (or almost). Still a few tweaks here and there, like slightly reducing the light in the left side tunnel, and trying to reduce the bloom a tad, but overall, she is complete. I really enjoyed looking back at where I started at the beginning of this thread, I love seeing how a scene has evolved!

    Things that have changed since last update:
    -glow from the crystals in the tunnel now cast light on the arches.
    -Dirt added on the garden bed walls
    -Tweaked the lighting a little tiny bit


    udkcomplete.png
  • cholden
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    cholden polycounter lvl 18
    I like it. Looking forward to what's next.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    I'm glad you like it! I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all of you. I never would have made it there without your awesome help. I'll never forget it! Just noticed that I was mentioned in the weekly re-cap, and I am real honored.

    THANK YOU SO MUCH POLYCOUNT! :)
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Hey Prophecies, I am a moron and somehow missed this thread! I should have looked harder.

    I've rectified the article and pointed it here so people don't miss the whole progress of this piece :)

    Nice work!
  • xk0be
    Great work!

    At the risk of losing my street cred, maybe you can make the eagle glow/sparkle a bit from the sunlight shining right on it? like coughvampirescough. Since on the closeup you posted some of the parts are kinda goldish.

    Either way looks great, needs to be in a game.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    MoP wrote: »
    Hey Prophecies, I am a moron and somehow missed this thread! I should have looked harder.

    I've rectified the article and pointed it here so people don't miss the whole progress of this piece :)

    Nice work!

    Haha no problem! Just because you are a leet moderator, doesn't make you god and know every single thread around here! :P
    Keep up the good work yourself! :)


    @xk0be: I'll keep that in mind, it's a good suggestion!
  • brandoom
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    brandoom polycounter lvl 15
    Great looking scene Prophecies. Congrats on finishing. :)
  • PhilipK
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    PhilipK polycounter lvl 10
    quality stuff! great work with this, I really like it :)
  • dtschultz
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    dtschultz polycounter lvl 12
    Beautiful work! You should definitely be proud.

    There's lots of really good, informative critique in this thread as well. Thanks for sharing some of your ideas CrazyEyes.
  • mkandersson
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    mkandersson polycounter lvl 7
    Great piece! It turned out great. Good job.
  • paulsvoboda
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    paulsvoboda polycounter lvl 12
    Prophecies, this turned out fantastic. I missed a large portion of the updates so it's nice to see how far you brought it since I last checked. Any chance of a video walk through?
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    Hey, yes I will be making a walkthrough very shortly. Just need to get the camera setup in unreal's matinee.
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