Yeah I agree with you both. I truly appreciate your professional critiques and I am working hard to get it looking right. I've adjust most of the issues you've mentioned, and It is definitely looking far better than I thought it would.
Here's another small-ish update! Tomorrow should yield some more goodies!
Thanks! I'll be working exactly what you mentioned tomorrow. (Well, later today at this hour :P)
The archways will contain alcoves and a few of them will have tunnels leading somewhere else. I've yet to make the tunnel BSP's yet though. You read my mind regarding that! :P
As for the floor, I was wanting to make it look like the foundations were somewhat weakened, and the floor would sink in where the pillars are at, giving off the wavy feel. I'll be adding some mortar +grass growing in between the bricks. I need to work on getting it more believable though.
P.S. Of course I don't mind your feedback! I welcome it!
much better... as delerium said take it a step further and reduce the AO multiplier in the bricks....actually you may want to do this in all your textures...i see alot of people doing this...they multip,ly there AO bake in over the top of their diffuse....personnaly when worjking with lightmass or anyother directional lightmapper you dont need to do this very much maybe 20% or so use the AO bake more for dirt passes etc...this will let the normalmaps work better and give you more coherent lighting and less emphasis on the smaller details
also would think the arches would be nice if each arch with the arch was inset making them deeper...and if your going to add doors dont to everyone...maybe just the one in the centre of the shot as it will help with drawing the eye....having one in the one to the right will distract it
This might have been said but you should really think about the focus of your scene? im guessing that bad ass bird is the main feature yet i didn't see it until i jumped back to page 2 of this thread watching the renders with my initial thinking being "oh, cool model. Why dont he put that in the scene?"
Small update. Got the tunnel, alcoves, extra vegetation, and spiderwebs in. Also tweaked the lighting to be slightly more colorful. However, I'm having issues with the vegetation. For some reason it is looking really bland. Maybe I need to work on the material some more? Anyone know some tutorial to get vegetation looking better? Or maybe this is the best I can get them to look?
@ Haiddasalami:No, it won't be. The angle of the camera for the final shot will be different, putting emphasis on the gryphon. I'm just showing it from this angle to show the entire room. This will also be filmed.
I like the extrude in the wall, gives it some interest. I don't know if its just me but I think the bricks on the wall are too big. I would try and tile them a bit more and see what that looks like. (Preference)
The arches pop, but the bird is flat and the surface quality is not interesting. It needs character. Maybe play with the shaders more. Give it a grimy bronze look with wear and tear represented in the normal map and diffuse. It might also help to reduce the over all noise in the diff. Instead of scattering the grim all over, try strategically placing the dirt build up and let some clean non dirty area's show though more.
I do, however, love the vine pillar. Maybe model in something alive and organic. Something growing throughout the room from the pillar. Something that would grow outwards and integrate into the floor, wrapping it's self around your individual popped bricks.
Thanks for the input guys! I plan on sticking with the gryphon for the focal point. But I'll try to work on him a bit. As for getting something organic in here, that is exactly what I was thinking. Some of the walls seem a little lonely in there. Not sure if I can get an entire tree in there realistically... but I'll see what I can do.
Here is a small update. Rubble, subtle color grading, damaged ceiling and post processing! I'm pretty happy with the way this is turning out despite the fact that this is my first time in unreal. Ever. I need to work a little on making the damaged part of the ceiling slightly less smooth as well.
Wow thank you for the positive comments guys! Really appreciated!
This scene is pretty aged. I have something planned for the hole up there. Wait and see.
I like your new close up shot a lot better then your previous shots. And I really like your statue. There is one thing that sticks out though and that is the hole in the roof. It looks like the ceiling is just a couple of cm thick and with that staircase going upwards on the side there It gives me the impression that it is a second floor on top of your corridor.
Something I think could look good but I don’t know if that works with your final vision but having vines going up along side that empty wall there. Maybe crawling up trough that hole.
Just a suggestion :P You probably already have something else in mind to cover that spot.
Wow! Prophecies, this scene is amazing! I love the brick work you have on the floor. I'm guessing you did them in ZBrush [or a similar program], do you have any tutorials for doing them/know of any? I would love to know how to do them properly.
:]
- Bricks look good, but the black grout lines are way too dark. There is also this weird line of bricks that stand out more so than the rest. It would be nice to see some bricks popping in and out from geo.
- Stairs, while not the focal point, are VERY blurry. You have alot of intended detail but no texel resolution to show it off.
- The floor separation just does not read realistically to me. Any grout planned? The floor too is also blurry.
Tip: If you took the same high rez bricks you used to bake to those low rez bricks and simply layed them out in a floor pattern to a 2x2 ratio, you can get the same result of the floor, but it will look better. If you tiled the floor and manually pop out bricks here and there with geo, it would look as sharp as your brick wall.
Besides the brick wall, so far the best area's i think are the arches. But they too look like they would get blurry at 7 feet away much like the stairs and floor. The brick seems to be the only thing that holds up, resolution wise.
Tip: If you are running out of time, I would tile a secondary low frequency normal map on top of some of the forms. It will at least "fake" the resolution abit and unify the sharpness alittle. This technique is not exactly the most ideal way of correcting texel resolution but it's quick.
@Crazyeyes: Once again, thanks for the tips! I am thinking of redoing a few sections to achieve a better texel resolution.
I think the reason the brick is so much sharper is because it is being displayed on BSP's. Every flat wall section is a BSP, so by increasing the tiling, it doesn't look as blurry. I'll definitely try to make the stairs less blurry though.
Two illusion breakers: stairs have noticeably lower pixel density than everything around them, and bricks on wall seem noticeably tiled.
You can quickly remedy this with decals, you can put these everywhere, hide every seam, make things look ransacked and more dungeony. If you open ExampleMap.udk, you can see examples of them used as stains all over the place, but they could be cracks in the wall, bits of paper on the floor and so on.
Thanks for the tip Cholden! I gave decals a try for the first time today! I like it! Is there a way to use spec on decals? It doesn't seem to work on my decal material.
I will work on getting a nice volumetric godray in there to avoid using lightshafts for the sunlight. I feel I don't have much control over the bloom. I also need to figure out how to tone down the bloom overkill on the crystals in the background. I'm not liking it.
Need to solve issues I am having with the spotlight I'm using as sunlight. It's not working the way it was previously, no clue why. A dominant directional wasn't giving the results I had hoped for, so that is why I am not using it.
Also, I am debating on what to use on the far end wall. Here are my two choices:
1. Use those arches and add actual doors indicating that this place actually leads somewhere, or
2. Have a bare wall like my previous updates and add colorful banners. I'm just wondering if banners would steal attention from the statue.
Anywho, here is my update! I'm pretty satisfied with the result thus far!
hmmm....
nice but...
roots like that would take decades to grow... and the castle would be in much worse nick....personally i would have popped round stolen the statue for all that gold
Been following your progress, you have come a long way
The bricks look like your best texture, altho unbelievable in the arched section as constructive material. If you can make it look arch-supporting I'd choose that over the concrete look.
Nitpick: Why does the extra support arch above the door terminate into going to the left only?
Thanks for the comments guys! I definitely need to get a better/more dramatic lighting going on here, right now it is too flat, too boring and uniform. I need to play around with the lights and darks.
@StJoris; What do you mean by the arch terminating into going to the left only? I don't get it.
The accents you have used are great, especially the cobwebs in the tunnel and arch.
I would tone down the glow on the few things you have it on though, I feel like it draws the eye away from the whole piece.
Looks amazing though.
Thank you! And yeah I agree about toning down the glow on a few things, the DoF really pumps that stuff up. Too much even. I think I need to get some more cobwebs here and there around the scene, really gives off a nice feel IMO. I also need to look into getting an animated godray with floating dust particles. Dustmotes. If I have the time, I really, really need to get some of those in there!
hmmm....
nice but...
roots like that would take decades to grow... and the castle would be in much worse nick....personally i would have popped round stolen the statue for all that gold
i'm sure they're magic roots. They grow like 5x faster!!
looking cool. would be nice to see some more breakup of the bricks, some missing bricks or dirt seeping through.
Frell, if you liked his previous lighting/mood, I don't see why you don't like this. As far as I can tell, his lighting was done with the hole in mind. Where do you think that yellowish light came from? Certainly not from underground.
Back on topic, I agree with you having a ways to go with the lighting. It looks good, but it still needs a little more love. I'm sure you'll make it though! I've enjoyed seeing your progress and this is a very inspiring scene. Saved to inspirations folder.
Frell: Thank you for your input I definitely agree with the deep underground cavern feel. I like it too. However, Marcus here is correct. The lighting I had previously done with the hole in mind. That yellow tint indicates sunlight.
But i would think about the brightness of the wall IN the left "tunnel". For me it's too bright - it looks like there would be an big open entrance where sunlight is floating into the dungeon. I would make it darker and as light source i would choose a scary green or orange light from a fire.
Well, I'm ready to call this one done folks (or almost). Still a few tweaks here and there, like slightly reducing the light in the left side tunnel, and trying to reduce the bloom a tad, but overall, she is complete. I really enjoyed looking back at where I started at the beginning of this thread, I love seeing how a scene has evolved!
Things that have changed since last update:
-glow from the crystals in the tunnel now cast light on the arches.
-Dirt added on the garden bed walls
-Tweaked the lighting a little tiny bit
I'm glad you like it! I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all of you. I never would have made it there without your awesome help. I'll never forget it! Just noticed that I was mentioned in the weekly re-cap, and I am real honored.
At the risk of losing my street cred, maybe you can make the eagle glow/sparkle a bit from the sunlight shining right on it? like coughvampirescough. Since on the closeup you posted some of the parts are kinda goldish.
Hey Prophecies, I am a moron and somehow missed this thread! I should have looked harder.
I've rectified the article and pointed it here so people don't miss the whole progress of this piece
Nice work!
Haha no problem! Just because you are a leet moderator, doesn't make you god and know every single thread around here! :P
Keep up the good work yourself!
@xk0be: I'll keep that in mind, it's a good suggestion!
Prophecies, this turned out fantastic. I missed a large portion of the updates so it's nice to see how far you brought it since I last checked. Any chance of a video walk through?
Replies
Here's another small-ish update! Tomorrow should yield some more goodies!
You should get rid of the dark brick line that runs through the wall texture, my eyes are drawn to that.
Your floor is still looking unnatural, the bricks are popping out to much...
There is bricks in the roof section above statue, get rid of that and make it look like the rest of the roof.
The column in the middle looks very tiny regarding the massive weight it holds.
You should break up the brick wall with something else in the archways (alcoves with statues or doors for an example).
The bird statue looks ace !The archways will contain alcoves and a few of them will have tunnels leading somewhere else. I've yet to make the tunnel BSP's yet though. You read my mind regarding that! :P
As for the floor, I was wanting to make it look like the foundations were somewhat weakened, and the floor would sink in where the pillars are at, giving off the wavy feel. I'll be adding some mortar +grass growing in between the bricks. I need to work on getting it more believable though.
P.S. Of course I don't mind your feedback! I welcome it!
Same crits as Delerium pretty much.
Arch frames are still kinda noisy.
For the floor, check out that video i posted on page 2. Its the floor in the interior halls. Little is more.
also would think the arches would be nice if each arch with the arch was inset making them deeper...and if your going to add doors dont to everyone...maybe just the one in the centre of the shot as it will help with drawing the eye....having one in the one to the right will distract it
Regardless, crit and comment!
@ParoXum: I'll give that a shot!
I do, however, love the vine pillar. Maybe model in something alive and organic. Something growing throughout the room from the pillar. Something that would grow outwards and integrate into the floor, wrapping it's self around your individual popped bricks.
Sorta like this: (scroll to time index 4:10)
[ame]
I like the new wall bricks. But i would actually go bigger. Exaggeration of forms tend to look better in fantasy settings.
Here is a small update. Rubble, subtle color grading, damaged ceiling and post processing! I'm pretty happy with the way this is turning out despite the fact that this is my first time in unreal. Ever. I need to work a little on making the damaged part of the ceiling slightly less smooth as well.
The addition of the stair case is great, it really adds some depth to the scene. I would suggest continuing the support arches up the stair case.
I like ParoXum's suggestion of Ivy. How aged is this scene anyway?
Keep up the awesome work
This scene is pretty aged. I have something planned for the hole up there. Wait and see.
Something I think could look good but I don’t know if that works with your final vision but having vines going up along side that empty wall there. Maybe crawling up trough that hole.
Just a suggestion :P You probably already have something else in mind to cover that spot.
:]
- Bricks look good, but the black grout lines are way too dark. There is also this weird line of bricks that stand out more so than the rest. It would be nice to see some bricks popping in and out from geo.
- Stairs, while not the focal point, are VERY blurry. You have alot of intended detail but no texel resolution to show it off.
- The floor separation just does not read realistically to me. Any grout planned? The floor too is also blurry.
Tip: If you took the same high rez bricks you used to bake to those low rez bricks and simply layed them out in a floor pattern to a 2x2 ratio, you can get the same result of the floor, but it will look better. If you tiled the floor and manually pop out bricks here and there with geo, it would look as sharp as your brick wall.
Besides the brick wall, so far the best area's i think are the arches. But they too look like they would get blurry at 7 feet away much like the stairs and floor. The brick seems to be the only thing that holds up, resolution wise.
Tip: If you are running out of time, I would tile a secondary low frequency normal map on top of some of the forms. It will at least "fake" the resolution abit and unify the sharpness alittle. This technique is not exactly the most ideal way of correcting texel resolution but it's quick.
@Crazyeyes: Once again, thanks for the tips! I am thinking of redoing a few sections to achieve a better texel resolution.
I think the reason the brick is so much sharper is because it is being displayed on BSP's. Every flat wall section is a BSP, so by increasing the tiling, it doesn't look as blurry. I'll definitely try to make the stairs less blurry though.
I'm almost ready for an update however!
P.S. Yes there will be grout on the floor
Looking good man. Keep it up.
You can quickly remedy this with decals, you can put these everywhere, hide every seam, make things look ransacked and more dungeony. If you open ExampleMap.udk, you can see examples of them used as stains all over the place, but they could be cracks in the wall, bits of paper on the floor and so on.
...And possibly some blending on the wall material as recently seen in teaandcigarettes' lovely scene: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74090
Or you could try this
http://www.chrisalbeluhn.com/UT3_Adding_Brick_Variation.html
I will work on getting a nice volumetric godray in there to avoid using lightshafts for the sunlight. I feel I don't have much control over the bloom. I also need to figure out how to tone down the bloom overkill on the crystals in the background. I'm not liking it.
Need to solve issues I am having with the spotlight I'm using as sunlight. It's not working the way it was previously, no clue why. A dominant directional wasn't giving the results I had hoped for, so that is why I am not using it.
Also, I am debating on what to use on the far end wall. Here are my two choices:
1. Use those arches and add actual doors indicating that this place actually leads somewhere, or
2. Have a bare wall like my previous updates and add colorful banners. I'm just wondering if banners would steal attention from the statue.
Anywho, here is my update! I'm pretty satisfied with the result thus far!
Any and all criticism appreciated!
nice but...
roots like that would take decades to grow... and the castle would be in much worse nick....personally i would have popped round stolen the statue for all that gold
The bricks look like your best texture, altho unbelievable in the arched section as constructive material. If you can make it look arch-supporting I'd choose that over the concrete look.
Nitpick: Why does the extra support arch above the door terminate into going to the left only?
@StJoris; What do you mean by the arch terminating into going to the left only? I don't get it.
I would tone down the glow on the few things you have it on though, I feel like it draws the eye away from the whole piece.
Looks amazing though.
Hopefully I can find a tutorial somewhere.
i'm sure they're magic roots. They grow like 5x faster!!
looking cool. would be nice to see some more breakup of the bricks, some missing bricks or dirt seeping through.
Dont get me wrong, it still looks great.
Back on topic, I agree with you having a ways to go with the lighting. It looks good, but it still needs a little more love. I'm sure you'll make it though! I've enjoyed seeing your progress and this is a very inspiring scene. Saved to inspirations folder.
Frell: Thank you for your input
But i would think about the brightness of the wall IN the left "tunnel". For me it's too bright - it looks like there would be an big open entrance where sunlight is floating into the dungeon. I would make it darker and as light source i would choose a scary green or orange light from a fire.
Things that have changed since last update:
-glow from the crystals in the tunnel now cast light on the arches.
-Dirt added on the garden bed walls
-Tweaked the lighting a little tiny bit
THANK YOU SO MUCH POLYCOUNT!
I've rectified the article and pointed it here so people don't miss the whole progress of this piece
Nice work!
At the risk of losing my street cred, maybe you can make the eagle glow/sparkle a bit from the sunlight shining right on it? like coughvampirescough. Since on the closeup you posted some of the parts are kinda goldish.
Either way looks great, needs to be in a game.
Haha no problem! Just because you are a leet moderator, doesn't make you god and know every single thread around here! :P
Keep up the good work yourself!
@xk0be: I'll keep that in mind, it's a good suggestion!
There's lots of really good, informative critique in this thread as well. Thanks for sharing some of your ideas CrazyEyes.