Nintendo, PS3...Piracy Tactics
polycounter lvl 18
http://kotaku.com/5480510/collateral-damage-in-the-war-on-piracy?skyline=true&s=i
I am all against piracy of games but having to be able to be on-line to play your games is ridiculous (it's almost like they are mimicking wow but you don't have to pay to play, yet!).
If something were to happen to let's say your net line or you wanted to bring your system over to a friends house to kill sometime but he doesn't have Internet or limited Internet your screwed (I for one don't like the idea).
I remember the good old days, packing your system into a schoolbag or duffel to bring to my cousins house, those days are long gone.
Damn Game Pirates! :poly127:
I am all against piracy of games but having to be able to be on-line to play your games is ridiculous (it's almost like they are mimicking wow but you don't have to pay to play, yet!).
If something were to happen to let's say your net line or you wanted to bring your system over to a friends house to kill sometime but he doesn't have Internet or limited Internet your screwed (I for one don't like the idea).
I remember the good old days, packing your system into a schoolbag or duffel to bring to my cousins house, those days are long gone.
Damn Game Pirates! :poly127:
Replies
This seems like a very unfair, brute force approach.
Or indeed, like your analogy, what if you want to wanted to take your console to a holiday home etc? You simply couldn't play it if there was no internet?
piracy is somewhat casual, but uses games sales is casual to the extreme.
I'll just repost what I posted in the somewhat derailed AC2 Thread...quoted from here...
Lucky pirates, living the life doing what they want. While we have to deal with crappy DRM's with insane limitations and they can play the game how ever they want.
Almost all of my new game purchases are now to Sony, EA, and indie devs.
Actually, it hasn't :P They have just put up a ripped DVD without crack... in russian... But for anyone who want's to play the installer in russian, go bananas! ^^
"I strongly suspect that these new DRMs aren't really to fight Piracy, but to kill the market for used games..."
Used games market on PC? Not really, there is no used games market on PC to speak of. But a 90%+ piracy however.
My thought go something like this: If an anti-piracy solution comes along that will actually prevent piracy, maybe the first games will suffer because of all the rage, but when people start to realize that there will be no more pirate versions, sales will probably soar. I have a hard time believeing that all those cheap-ass pirate gamers will just sit at home mumbling curses instead of bying the games :P
Also, Pliflik, they didnt spend millions of dollars, so stop quoting something that is crazy wrong. The budget for ubisofts DRM would not have made a tiny bit of change in any of the games.
I personally don't play pirated games, because I think games are worth the money I spend on them...if a game is not worth the money, it is not worth my time...but if I wanted to play AC2 on PC (regardless that I already have it for PS3...) I would pirate it.
If you had read the article I linked to, you would see, that there is no DRM that can stop piracy. Ever. All DRM does is annoy the customers. You cannot release a game that can be played by the customer and at the same time prevent a pirate from copying it. It is simply impossible...unless it is an online game, where the player actually pays for the data steam to his machine...this can be controlled by a simple login, like MMOGs do for ages...even if the legal player needs to be connected to the internet when he wants to play AC2, this does not prevent piracy, since all data needed is on the disc...all the cracker needs to do is unscramble them...all the pirate has to do is download...the same as for every other game...
You could prevent piracy by streaming the data from a server to the customers PC instead of shipping discs or downloadable installers, but I highly doubt anyone would pay $50+ for a game he never actually gets...also the ongoing costs for such a 'service' would never be covered by the sales...you'd need some subscription like in MMOGs...again something noone would pay for a singleplayer game...of course that doesn't mean it will not happen...I guess thats Ubisoft's next step, when they realize their new 'DRM' failed...
"There is no DRM that can stop piracy. Ever" "Unless it is an online game, where the player actually pays for the data steam to his machine" ...you kind of made my point on your own. If that is what it takes to prevent piracy, that is what has to be done. Having no drm does not stop pirates, pirates don't stop pirating games because of goodwill, if they did, DRM would never have been created in the first place.
"but I highly doubt anyone would pay $50+ for a game he never actually gets" yeah..like WoW. I can't see anyone paying 50 bucks for THAT... The funny thing is, the average consumer has NO clue what is on the disc and what is streamed. Do you think the average WoW-player understand the tech behind it? Hardly.
"also the ongoing costs for such a 'service' would never be covered by the sales" Oh really? I would love to see some data on that. How many megs would they have to stream, and how often? You know this information? You know the devs profit margins?
You keep talking about imaginary numbers. You can't just pull numbers out of your ass like that :P
I know I don't have any hard numbers, but I know my way around Bandwidth, Cryptography, Channel Coding and other things I learned during my studies becoming an electrical engineer, and I know they are expensive. If you have a good selling game, you need the hardware, software, bandwidth and support staff to handle all that streaming to the customers PCs...the higher the sales are, the higher are the ongoing costs...I doubt they can be covered by a one time payment (at least none that the average customer is ready to pay)...why do you think do online games rely on subscription? Not only because Blizzard wants to get richer, but because it would not be possible otherwise...
Piflik: Why? Why can't I compare singleplayer games with MMOGs? Because you say so? Many FPS games have dedicated servers etc, and you don't pay subscribtion to them :P
Yeah, you don't have any hard numbers, and I bet all those network devs at ubisoft just made a big stupid mistake and forgot about that part... It IS economically viable :P You doubt that they can be covered by a one time payment, but they can.
Why do online games rely on subscription? Cause they can, and the server load is ALOT higher.
ironic image #32 (I'm not a pirate so no hatin' : ) I think the image has a point though.)
What IS a good solution?
And when I think about it...even streaming wouldn't prevent piracy...it would maybe delay it, but as it is possible today to create a private WoW server (or even simpler...find a black one online), creating a private (or black) server to stream your singleplayer game, should not be so difficult...
Again...there is no way to prevent piracy. Ever. If you don't want your game to be hacked, don't publish for an open system.
Vig: If you mean "pirate copy" when you say used, then you are right. If not, no.
People are like electricity they take the path of least resistance. They need to set up a better system that makes it easier for people to do the right thing.
Example itunes.
I personally choose to buy my games new and hang onto them and this pisses me off. I have a lot of older games I still fire up and play from time to time and it ticks me off that I might not be able to do that in the future. It will definitely weigh in on any future purchases.
The decent thing to do would be to release a patch a year or two after that removes the DRM check, after they've gotten their money out of it and are thinking of shutting down the server.
free games are hardly pirated :P but already happened lol thats the world we live in.
nothing can stop human kind . hmm maybe Nibiru ?? xD
Yup, but that is also a built in solution in the DRM.... No game will be abandoned without support when the userbase has diminished. :]
"understand the need to combat piracy, as their revenues are affected as well."
Yes, of course their revenue is affected. More piracy = less PC sales. If gamestop can sell more games, they would be happy. They do NOT want the used game market to shrink though, since that is 50% of their profits. However, the used game market is on console almost exclusively.
Free games does not make a profit either. And cheap games are pirated just as much, as are indea games. World of Goo had over 90% piracy aswell. And when people could choose how much they wanted to pay for it, almost everyone payed the smallest amount possible, which was actually a LOSS for the developer since the transition costs were higher than the sum he got. So much for supporting indies, huh.
I also worked for Atari and had the dubious pleasure of telling people "I'm sorry we no longer support that game" or "yes the servers where shut down a year ago, you'll never play it again". It happens and a company is only committed to their promise to play as long as it makes them money. Or they're in business, or the people who made that call to support them forever are still in power. This is going to make more pirates because they're putting more resistance on the line instead of improving it. Pirating needs to be harder than buying it. Work that out and everything is fine, but it won't increase sales until it is.
I don't care how it works, but I doubt it is anything highly more sophisticated than an periodical or constant running activation server...some flag that is only set when the game has access to the server, or perhaps even a part of the game missing that will be compensated for by the server...still an activation server...nothing too fancy...
Exactly
(realmcrafter MMO game engine) had that type of activation and they got through it as well. but its harder though.
And those that dont have online capabilities are those that buy more games i think. but that can be a so small % that they dont even care about it ^^
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/02/ubisoft-details-drm.ars
The power goes out and my laptop still has battery. I'm screwed.
If I take it out some place that doesn't have a net connection, or worse I have to pay for the connection. I'm screwed.
If I move and I'm waiting for the cable guy to come and turn it on I'm screwed.
If I decide I've had my fill of the internet and I can live without it. I'm screwed.
I take a vacation. I'm screwed.
I take my laptop with me when we visit family. I'm screwed.
I take the bus to work and the wifi is spotty if its even existent. I'm screwed.
This does not make the pirate version less appealing, but more and I don't pirate games.
This is aimed at killing PC gaming and forcing people to buy and play console games. This crazy DRM is coming to the consoles and it will eventually kill the used game market. But not before it does in PC gaming new and used.
I don't pirate but this crap is pushing me that way.
"If I decide I've had my fill of the internet and I can live without it. I'm screwed." Yeah, you are screweed with most games then, since many games require online authentication :P
The point is, sooner or later, someone is gonna make a bitchy enough DRM. Having no DRM does not counter piracy. Nothing counters piracy, more than being a real BITCH to the pirates.
i sadly have to say thats not true, it was already cracked for xbox, psp, iphone
and RUSSIAN version is available for PC whit a beta crack..
so i think the only anti piracy is shutdown search engines..
The problem is, that you are not only a bitch to pirates, but you are a bitch to the customer...
And noone will ever make a DRM that stops piracy...such a thing doesn't exist in this universe. It makes it harder to crack...maybe it even takes longer...but it will happen...and all the people, who want to play AC2, but can't because of that stupid 'DRM' or simply don't want to support that madness, will pirate this game. For many it will be the first game they pirate...
It's not a friendly hand out to paying customers making it easier for the pirates to become paying customers. Its carpet bombing WW2 style, hoping the pirates take a few hits and they won't.
serialkiler: please tell me where that cracked version is :P The ones on piratebay etc is just a DVD-rip with no working crack yet. It still crashes the game.
With the internet, people won't pay for a game when they can download it for free.
Lower prices won't do anything. If something it's free to get, they won't pay an euro.
To close all portals/webs serving illegal torrents and links to direct downloads with illegal contents could be the best solution, but the hardest to do. Publishers go to the easy way, and i see that OK. The Internet it's becoming like the phone... who does not have a phone? childs have iphones now... ¬¬
I have bought too many games and on its dvd box is printed: "Internet connection is required to play the game". This is not new, the measure got success in a good rate (%) with some games, and they are doing the same.
When i'm with the computer, i'm always connected to the Internet, and my friends that plays with the console aswell. I don't know anyone who turn off their router to be disconnected :P
Yeah, this can be a nuisance for legit users, but it can't be helped. Piracy has no limits. Enjoy as much as you can.
the one that will never buy it. so if cant play pirated copy he will just go to another great game.
and the one that really like games but industry is becoming shit not making good games. so they test them then buy them if not its just not worthy.
well the 3rd just dont have money for it so they fit in the first type
Exactly, truly a brute force approach.
It's not a pro-piracy statement...there is no such thing...it is an anti-DRM statement...I don't care a disc check...but online requirements, especially as draconian as with AC2, make me not want to buy the game...
And there are more types of pirates...there are those who pirate, because their gamerig doesn't have an internet connection...and those who pirate, to prove a point...the way DRM is going is madness...those who know that playing a DRM-free game is by far more relaxing than trying to get the DRM-laden version you get from the store to run...
Playing games should be fun...while I agree that piracy is bad, I know you can't do anything against it...and hurting the ones who would buy the game, is the wrong direction...I am just going to Quote this again...
Vig is right, whats the point of buying a game when you're pandering to non-offline modes? Steam is the max i can handle, because they do have an offline mode.
Let's assume pirates are all just whiny bitches who want things for free.
Why the f*** are they trying to convert whiny bitches who want everything for free into paying customers.
That's stupid. There are plenty of people in the world who are perfectly willing to pay for entertainment. Case in point: Everyone here.
Yet here we are, paying customers annoyed at Ubisoft and not wanting to buy their games anymore, while the pirates rejoice as they've been given a fun little cracking challenge.
I was going to buy AC2. Now, I'm not going to buy AC2.
Pirates will crack AC2 and play it, while I won't.
Lose-lose situation.
Ubisoft's DRM analysis
Pros:
-A few days of pirates trying extra hard to crack the DRM.
Cons:
-Paying customers having difficulty getting the game to run.
-Paying customers getting kicked out of the game repeatedly.
-A huge increase in customer service costs dealing with all those paying customers.
-A huge increase in customer service costs from calls from pirates.
-Additional cost of developing/licensing the DRM.
-Additional cost of developing/maintaining servers for the DRM.
-A massive PR disaster that turns paying customers into pirates.
Piracy is bad, but the solution is not to punish your paying customers. EA figured this shit out and they're making tons of cash off DLC and fighting used game sales at the same time. Their model works, so why is Ubisoft using a draconian model that has already proven to have no benefits and plenty of costs?
I hope starcraft 2 doesn't pull this crap.
I don't mind having to be online once when you first launch the game, but anything more than that is lame.
That's not cool.
I don't want that happening with console games too. The whole point of console games is that they work without all the hassles of a PC. And if games stop being available used and for rental, I'm not buying games. They're like $60 each now and most of them still aren't that good. I only buy new ones when they're old enough that the price has dropped. If they're going to stop working by that point because of Internet tomfoolery, forget it.
(I know, most of you guys make your living from people buying those games when they're new, and people with my buying habits are probably a large part of what's making the industry job market so unstable. But video games are essentially a hobby for rich kids. The prices of new consoles and games dictate that. The sales of new games have always been, and will continue to be, based around consumers with a lot of disposable income. That limits profits to that group. That's why the Wii has done so well on paper and stupid games like Farmville have been able to pull in hundreds of millions of dollars. It's not because more people like shitty games, it's because more people can afford to buy shitty games new. That's how the $60 game business model is structured. The rich enthusiasts buy the games new, everyone else buys them used, and when the sequel comes out, more of the less wealthy people are willing to pay the $60 for 1 game instead of the $50 for 5 games they might have bought used, because now it's more likely to be worth it. THAT is why there are like eleventy Guitar Heroes and 9-or-so CoDs and Nintendo is still doing well despite the Wii still only having like 3 good games. Point being, the companies who adapt their business model to the public instead of trying to force the public to adapt to their business model will profit like crazy; but not the other way around.)