State of the Industry: Why you should or should not give up.

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  • JO420
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    JO420 polycounter lvl 14
    Oura curiosity have any of the Americans here looked for work outside of the U.S? Ive met quite a few Americans working in the games industry abroad at all levels. Dont know how the job market is outside of the U.S but it could be something else to try. Seems like a daunting task to land a job outside of the U.S but youd be surprised.

    Aside from the obvious disadvantages of being away from your family and friends,for someone who is young and not tied down by any major obligations it can be an exciting experience.

    -From what i have experienced there are less experienced people to compete against,so if your good enough you could really stand out.

    - Social structures in the in Europe are better then in the U.S so if you lose your job it is not as desperate as a situation as it in the U.S,in Denmark when i lost my job the law states that you have to get 3 full months of salary if your company goes bankrupt. I didnt get paid in the final months and insurance covered that months salary so i actually had months of time to look for work. If the same had happened in the U.S i would have been royally fucked.

    - Opportunity for travel in your free time.

    -Meet people from all sortf of interesting people

    - And your unhealthy youll probably drop weight by virtue of eating healthier and walking more often.

    -Most places you dont need a car.
  • Ruffio718
    Man the positivity in this thread is something I appreciate. Lately I've been in a rut and quite discouraged. Being a recent college grad with a "game art " degree, I realize my skill level isn't where it needs to be. At times I figured man.. why even bother? or that I waste my time. But I know I just got to work harder.
  • Josh_Singh
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    Josh_Singh polycounter lvl 13
    Yeah to further clarify, I don't think that a guy has to be an awesome animator modeler texture artist to be hireable or even a bad ass. I am just saying a guy with a kick ass understanding of all the disciplines that make game art is a very marketable fellow, and further more, would probably do very well if he ever wanted to go out on his own into the deep end of Freelance. I would like to be a guy like that.
  • Ruffio718
    DKK wrote: »
    Why try? Feels good... like jacking off.

    How to stop being sad? Jack off.

    You should be a therapist with such insightful advice lol.
  • adam
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    adam polycounter lvl 14
    I'm going to go ahead and repost this in fear its been lost in this sea of emotions.

    I'd like to counter Josh's point, not because I disagree with it - because I don't - but I think there's other aspects to this that are also true, and that aspect is this: If you do not suck (that is, you're at a level that inspires others) at being a 3D artist* or animating you'll never have trouble getting a job. In this business, there's those of us who can get by with doing what they're told at a decent level of completion, and there's those of us who get on by blowing their peers away continuously with the art set, knowledge of the business and good understanding of video games (design, theory, practice, management).

    *By 3D artist I mean someone who can model both in-game & highpoly meshes and texture their work.

    If you're the former, you're expendable. If you're the latter, you're priceless to a studio.

    So while its perfect people here and at other communities are learning their craft, I think its just as important as getting a better understanding about how this industry works from all the points I listed above. And not JUST what you think works based on a negative experience you may have had.

    "This industry is so fickle! I've been laid off twice!" There's more to it, than just that.
  • sir-knight
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    sir-knight polycounter lvl 10
    I view the commercial art industry like a double edged sword. I've worked in a decent sized tv animation studio and a self toted goliath of mobile games, there are times where I looked at what I was doing and said, damn this is an awesome job, I come to work, work on cartoons and art all day, and when I go home, I watch more cartoons, movies and play video games cause it's all part of the industry I work in.

    That's when it's good. That's when you're naive to what's going on around you and everything is just peachy. That's when your employers are awesome, the people you work with are awesome and the work is creative and mentally stimulating and push you towards doing better at what you do, and growing as an artist.

    When it flips, and the ugly cunt that is the commercial beast rears its face, is when the grind happens, when you start slaving with unpaid overtime, the studio who calls you a contractor but you work on location and doesn't pay you the taxes on your contract salary to pocket the difference, or when the work turns stagnant cause the management sucks and all you're doing is buying images from istock to crop them and move premade icons around a screen. The executives call that a creative job to keep a dying company afloat, and you're now doing a job a pimply highschool nerd could do and you feel yourself creatively rotting away.

    That's a bad way to go.

    When times are good, they're really great, when shit starts happening, everyone around you seems to become two faced and the job is definitely not fun.

    I think people who get down on things around them an themselves (like I do) need to focus on what makes us happy. Sadly doing art as a passion and doing it as a job are very different things, and takes very special conditions to make doing them both at the same time really worthwhile.

    For me art is a love hate relationship, much like a real relationship, you really have to focus on the good and positive things that happen, otherwise you start spiraling into a pit of despair. Once you start giving attention to the things that make things go bad and dwelling on them, it's just a bottomless pit. But when things go wrong, you need to look at how and why and then fix it, not just sit and lament about it.

    Try and focus on getting out of the hole, not how deep it can be. Whether it be a step up or a lateral jump, this is where outside the box thinking can really be useful. If you find yourself in a hole, it might be because you weren't looking far enough ahead to anticipate it, or you saw it coming and did nothing to avoid it. Analyze the situation, anticipate and act.

    At least... that's what I try to do... I'll let anyone know if it's working :D!
  • xvampire
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    xvampire polycounter lvl 12
    DKK wrote: »
    Why try? Feels good... like jacking off.

    How to stop being sad? Jack off.

    this


    also this
    [ame]
  • [HP]
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    [HP] polycounter lvl 11
    Vig wrote: »
    I'm happy I make games that not only encourage women to game, but also think.

    ahah, I lol'ed.
  • sebas
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    sebas polycounter lvl 12
    For if this helps someone...

    Never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never...
    ... never give up!
  • Richard Kain
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    Richard Kain polycounter lvl 12
    I've finally begun playing around with Unity. If anyone is interested in going solo on full-time game development, this would probably be one of the best solutions for them. I got a functional GUI menu up and running in ten minutes. I also imported a 3D model I had produced in Blender with relative ease. (especially compared to most other game engines)

    It's no magic "make game" button. But it definitely makes getting things running a lot faster. It's going to take a hell of a lot of hard work and time, but I'm still very encouraged.
  • NyneDown
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    NyneDown polycounter lvl 11
    A: What positive keeps you in this career[...]? The fact that I WILL eventually find a position at a company making game art for a living. I've become better with each character that I do, so it's just a matter of me kicking my ass into gear and having some fun and learn some new shit.


    B: What do you do to overcome the negatives? My kitchen has a stock pile of corona's and jack daniels. But seriously, just the desire to become better. I love art regardless if I find a job in the field tomorrow, next month, next year, etc. So it's not like I'm JUST doing this for that fact alone...I'm doing it because I'm an artist at heart. And hopefully along the way, I can inspire a few people the way others have inspired me.
  • Lamont
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    Lamont polycounter lvl 10
    As individuals you NEED to have proper PROBLEM SOLVING/RESEARCHING SKILLS. This is something I think isn't taught much/if at all now a days, as answers are hand-fed in most schools and online. When something doesn't go 1-2-3-4 people freak the hell out. This skill can be applied to anything and can make life easier, get you out of ruts and open more avenues of possibilities.

    People give up when things seem to not work, or there is an end/no answer. There is always an answer, you may not know it now, but if you keep hammering on it, it will eventually make itself apparent. Be adaptive, have that tenacity to learn and to achieve.
    Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves

    Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend.

    As for skills. Do what it takes to build it up. It's been said many times on Polycount that you may not FEEL or SEE your skills improving, but if you lay your work side by side in order, you will see how far you have come. Open yourself up to criticism and don't think of people as "faceless assholes on the internet talking out their ass" when they say something you don't agree with.
  • dolemite
    the government pays me to make games :D Wait, who were all of you working for?
  • ae.
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    ae. polycounter lvl 9
    These are my thoughts on the industry:

    Nuke2.JPG
  • Snacuum
    xvampire wrote: »
    this


    also this


    That was great. Pretty much what I think, but unlike this guy I don't have the wisdom to go and make something out of it. That's gotta change. One thing that spoke to me is how you gotta do art for yourself, and ALWAYS for yourself. Sure, we want somebody to pay us to do that, and they usually they want you to do their crap, how much you like that will depend on yourself.

    Reminds me of how we always go about making certain things to that we have been told will appeal to employers, but not necessarily what we are inspired to make. No space marines, no orcs and elves. But I say IF it really is your passion to make space marines and orc as your artistic spirit dictates, then you will get better at it and your orcs and space marines will be so good that they will notice.

    After listening to that piece, I realized that (unlike many others) I'm not here because I want to make art. I'm here because I want to make games. Every piece of art or design I make is designed to be placed in a game. My characters are to run around and interact in a game, and my environments for them to interact with. Almost none of them are just drawings, just models or just renders. Being an artist for me is a connection with the worlds I want to be a part of making.
  • Autocon
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    Autocon polycounter lvl 11
    Thegodzero wrote: »
    AutoCon, you might not want to say that when you work at bungie... one of the higher paying studios.

    Ha I was obviously making a joke.
  • Hazardous
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    Hazardous polycounter lvl 11
    Strap in folks, here’s my opinion bomb:

    The core to all of this for me if, you’re gunning to be an artist is to shape your life around being exactly that. Reduce as much of the clutter as possible, and avoid all the things that can be used as an excuse to not be doing what you should be doing, which is making art. Not because you have to, but because you love doing it.

    Here’s Uncle Haz's 3 step plan to help you discover that happy place!

    Step 1:

    If you don’t love making art or are finding it frustrating, something’s wrong already - find out what is wrong and fix it and invest time into doing everything you can to fix it, DON’T forge on hating your art!!!

    Maybe you hate building trees, maybe you hate building tanks, try something else until you find something that grabs you by the balls, (or the tits for the ladies) and keeps you stuck in the chair hunched over creating it, because you simply cant stop.

    Sometimes you can just be pissed because the tools are giving you grief or your learning new stuff, frustration from learning is natural. But if that’s what’s sending you packing, you need to harden the fuck up (thanks Chopper Reid) as that comes with the turf.

    This is the hardest step, it took me years to find the beginning of what makes me tick, and I’m still digging into it. I hope it doesn’t take you guys any longer!

    Step 2:

    You’ve found the love, your working on some wicked cool stuff that YOU want to make, even if you had heaps of money and didn’t feel like going to work you’d STILL be making this stuff because you love it so much.

    Now you need to do everything you can in order to keep riding that sensation for as long as you possibly can.

    Surround yourself with concept art, listen to Bobby Chiu every day over and over, have some applets running that are cycling through inspirational art pieces on your second monitor, buy yourself some figurines and stick them on your desk, buy art books, go to life drawing. Cut yourself off from your family and normal distractions for a period of time where you can just immerse yourself into YOUR ART TIME.

    But don’t overdo it! - I used to tell myself "nope no more for tonight!" It made me hurry home from my day job just so I could work on my characters. Fresh eyes are awesome eyes, you can really pick up on shit you weren’t seeing after that last 6 hour texturing session!

    Everyone falls off the wave, from time to time, if your like me, with a non perfect , chaotic life, invest the time into getting back on, instead of plowing on and working yourself more into a state of mind where your creations are becoming a " fuck I have to do this to get a job " type situation. Use anything and be willing to do everything to find that inspiration that WILL get you back onboard, including sex, porn, drugs or whatever!

    Step 3:

    Your life is changing, if you stop for a second and look back, its changed a lot, you’ve lost some friends that probably weren’t worth keeping anyway, you’ve spent more time devoted to your passion, and your churning out wicked stuff and gaining some fans and making new contacts!

    Don’t get caught up in the fandom, (unless its a hot art chick or dude who digs you a lot and will support your passion) keep going with your art! Accept the woah's and awesome’s gracefully and move on to your next piece, get back on the wave (and leave the hero pose whilst riding the wave to the David Hasselhoff’s and the Chuck Norris's)

    This is the easiest step, if you can reach this, congratulations, your already succeeding, you only need to keep doing what your doing, investing time into yourself and your skill set by doing what you love.

    If you invest that time into YOUR art, YOUR art will look after you in the long run. There is no escaping this universal law. As long as you stay true to your art and maintain what you enjoy to do most, other artists will gravitate toward you, and things will pop up for you that you never expected.

    ITS THE LAW and its how it works, I didn’t make the law, it just IS.

    Why should you give up?

    If you’re only doing an hour here or there outside of your normal day job / activities when you could be putting much more, that’s pretty much a direct reflection of your chances of breaking in.

    The key really is CAN you do more? Honestly? Really? Ask yourself that question!

    You SHOULD give up if you really are looking to land a job without investing any time into your passion. End of story. Someone who is putting in the time deserves the spot much more than you.

    If that comment hurts you, then that’s your inner artist telling you that YOU are one of those people. You need to make a choice, find your passion and get started on step 1, or use up your time by crying on your blog about how shit everything is and how you cant get anywhere with your art career, and continue to put in an hour here and there.

    Unfortunately for those of us who bust our balls, there is still hope for those of you who fall into this category, you can talk your way into positions, friends hiring friends that have no fucking idea what’s going on ( unfortunately it does happen I have a lot of experience with this kind of hiring going on – the companies shall remain nameless! )

    Why should you NOT give up?

    Because when you break through, and your at the point where your supporting yourself by doing what you love is the best feeling in the whole world - imagine your most intense wicked orgasm and multiply it by infinity + 3, your still not even close.

    If you break through and be at a happy place with your art, you'll not be apart of those masses, who go through their lives in 'normal jobs' doing what they do for money because they HAVE to do it.

    Most people wonder 'how cool it would be to be a < insert profession here >'

    Well the truth is you have a chance to not be that person, and instead be the person who is thinking 'what can I do to help me be a <insert profession here>'

    Its all within, right there *pokes your chest* (sorry ladies it wasn’t a cheap fondle I assure you)

    That’s all there is. Epic.

    Back to making art.
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 12
    JO420 wrote: »
    Oura curiosity have any of the Americans here looked for work outside of the U.S? Ive met quite a few Americans working in the games industry abroad at all levels. Dont know how the job market is outside of the U.S but it could be something else to try. Seems like a daunting task to land a job outside of the U.S but youd be surprised.

    Aside from the obvious disadvantages of being away from your family and friends,for someone who is young and not tied down by any major obligations it can be an exciting experience.

    -From what i have experienced there are less experienced people to compete against,so if your good enough you could really stand out.

    - Social structures in the in Europe are better then in the U.S so if you lose your job it is not as desperate as a situation as it in the U.S,in Denmark when i lost my job the law states that you have to get 3 full months of salary if your company goes bankrupt. I didnt get paid in the final months and insurance covered that months salary so i actually had months of time to look for work. If the same had happened in the U.S i would have been royally fucked.

    - Opportunity for travel in your free time.

    -Meet people from all sortf of interesting people

    - And your unhealthy youll probably drop weight by virtue of eating healthier and walking more often.

    -Most places you dont need a car.

    To answer this I looked for alot of work outside the US mainly in canada...but I didnt have much luck no responses. I had some studios flat out saying you need to be a very high quality bar for the idea to even come to there minds of hiring someone from over seas :\

    Im only technically 3 hrs away from vancouver and I cant get a nibble from them at all.

    (ironically one of my 3 dream studios is there and they wont even give me a chance or contact me back....damn you relic and your awesome warhammer 40k games...)

    Notorious P.I.G: Were you hungry a hour later? Yeah I went there wanna fight about it! :p

    1408075081_5607ee607d.jpg
  • Anuxinamoon
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    Anuxinamoon polycounter lvl 11
    A: What positive keeps you in this career[...]?
    Love. Its all about love, baby. Being able to help tell stories. Help create worlds ripe for exploration. Most of all working in a team to get something done that we are proud of.


    B: What do you do to overcome the negatives?
    Focus on my work at hand. There were times in the past where a whole team was demoralised, no pay for months. Working on art/stuff was the only way to get past it. Its what I love doing.
    Also MMO's and games help me alot to de-stress is great. :D Try not to let work ruin your out of work life.

    If you find yourself in a position that you are hating over a long period of time, then its time to start looking for another job.
  • ebagg
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    ebagg polycounter lvl 11
    A: What positive keeps you in this career or wanted career? Even with all the doom and gloom.

    I make art for a living, I work in a smaller studio and am in a position with some freedom to be creative with my art. Later I get to see the art I create go into a playable game, I get to see how the animators took my model and made it move, I get to work with other talented, cool and passionate folks. I felt special when I saw my credits for the first time in a game, and continue to, it feels great to be part of a team that makes a professional product that people enjoy. And while there's a lot of diversity in those I've work or currently work with, on the whole, the people I work with aren't a bunch of stuck up, uncreative, pencil pushers that lack any passion in their lives. They're people like me that are having fun with their job, their project, and their lives in general, and there's something really to be said about.

    B: What do you do to overcome the negatives?

    Overcome? Well considering my job, I don't feel like I'm overcoming anything. I'd certainly like the industry as a whole to be doing better, I want all those talented and passionate folks to be enjoying a job they rightly deserve, and I'm sure things will work out as long as they keep at it. This industry is young and crazy compared to most and just thinking about where it'll go in our lifetimes is nuckin futs.

    Overall I do my damndest to stay a positive person with everything, and not get stuck on stressing about things. Not saying I don't stress the little things, because I do, A LOT, but I stress out a bit, then go do something to cheer up and/or get my mind off it, whether its spending time with my son, gf, friends, gaming, drinking, exercise, movies, etc, then move the fuck on. Life's too short to be depressed, I know that's enthusiastic catch-phrasing the gloomy folks hate to hear, but I stick to it and live a good life.
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    This video is relevant all too often round these parts:
    [ame]

    Hazardous, that was poinaint and heartfelt, you damn near inspired me to get off my ass and do some art done right now, but it's my Friday and this beer ain't gonna drink itself! To all the fallen art soldiers who are no longer in the fight, Salut...
  • JO420
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    JO420 polycounter lvl 14
    seforin wrote: »
    To answer this I looked for alot of work outside the US mainly in canada...but I didnt have much luck no responses. I had some studios flat out saying you need to be a very high quality bar for the idea to even come to there minds of hiring someone from over seas :

    Im only technically 3 hrs away from vancouver and I cant get a nibble from them at all.

    (ironically one of my 3 dream studios is there and they wont even give me a chance or contact me back....damn you relic and your awesome warhammer 40k games...)

    Notorious P.I.G: Were you hungry a hour later? Yeah I went there wanna fight about it! :p

    1408075081_5607ee607d.jpg

    Well Seforin,one big problem with Canada is that as a job market,its flooded with applicants from the U.S,UK as well as Canada. At the moment it feels like it is a tough nut to crack. Your portfolio is good,you should be getting more callbacks but right now its a buyers market.
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 12
    Hazardous hit it on the head. Do what he said, QQ less.

    also, do some pushups, you're all skinny/fat nerds. god.
  • Mladen Jovicic
    jebus Hazardous, that was quite epic! excellent advice in your post.you should be a motivational speaker or something haha
  • Ruz
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    Ruz greentooth
    I think seforin, the only way is to be really awesome at what you do, not just good, I mean fucking awesome. the bar is very high these days. Not saying you can't do it, just that you can't afford to sit around feeling sad about it.
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 14
    Ruz wrote: »
    I think seforin, the only way is to be really awesome at what you do, not just good, I mean fucking awesome. the bar is very high these days. Not saying you can't do it, just that you can't afford to sit around feeling sad about it.

    Jeezuz. I got to say Im soo tired of this simpleton view. Seforin does work on his stuff. You think he doesn't know this? If you cant give anything more complex, why bother telling him something he knows, while you also make assumptions of what he is doing?

    You could have been "tell me the areas you have problems in" then go hash it out from there.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz greentooth
    man who pissed on your chips oXYnary. I am sure seforin realizes I was trying to be encouraging.
    whats your problem anyway
  • osman
    Why you should not give up?:
    So many already are giving up, this means more jobs for you!
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 14
    Ruz wrote: »
    man who pissed on your chips oXYnary. I am sure seforin realizes I was trying to be encouraging.
    whats your problem anyway

    You may think you are being encouraging. But its not coming across. Its coming across as "you have to climb this mountain, and there are people in front of you. Work harder or fall off". Versus, "Here's a line to help you get to the next crevice on this mountain".

    And yes, it does get my goat, because its the same simpleton replies I see over and over. Those never certainly helped me versus just made me feel worse, and make it harder to strive or have fun. Im sure seforin has enough good humor though to ignore you though.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz greentooth
    aww whatever man, , if seforin has a problem with what I said I am sure he will pm me. Either way it was meant to be helpful not spiteful.
    I think anyone with half an once of common sense could see that
    I mean, really are you his official spokesman or something or perhaps his older sister?
  • samgriffiths
    I think it helps to know there are people ahead of you, stops you from slacking.
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 13
    Listen guys. I am far better than all of you; I think on this, we all agree. However, there are people out there that are even better than me!! Since none of you can ever possibly hope to attain my level of sweetness in a thousand lifetimes, what chance do you have to rise to the level of "game artist god"? What chance I ask you? NONE!! You are all un-hire-able! And those of you who have jobs will soon be fired! Your only chance is to learn chinese and work out of a van and outsource yourself to the chinese who will then outsource themselves to the US.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz greentooth
    jeez and I thought just being pretty was enough to get far in the game industry but I was wrong.
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 12
    JO420: Yea its funny you mention that. Ive been told by numerous veterans in this field that same exact thing saying I should be getting call backs or art tests. But I havent even gotten much of that..it seems like you really have to know the right people to email at the right time in the right circumstance..


    Im going to go to a big game studio one of these days and feed all the big wigs burritos. But secretly the night before remove all the toilet paper in the office building...while there stuck on the john I will be standing just outside of arms reach with toilet paper in hand , and as they grasp for there anal makeup I will only say in a silent whisper...give me a job and the toilet paper is yours :p


    Ruz: You know I respect you as a big name. And we've talked in PM's before about my skills from then to now. And you can see things have changed. oxy' is kinda rining on something I said before in another thread

    http://boards.polycount.net/showpost.php?p=1078411&postcount=80

    Regardless In the end all you can do is make something better...I found out putting boobs in your portfolio gets you alot more responses for work..perhaps I should make just a pair of 3D breasts as my focal showcase piece on my site? :p

    oXYnary :

    Yea I have enough humor to ignore these kinda statements..your right..

    245063794_5ab866053b.jpg
  • JO420
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    JO420 polycounter lvl 14
    Seforin,it could be just that the job market is so oversaturated that all of the little intangibles could be working against you. Like the titles on your resume. I think you could have 2 equally talented artist can go head to head for a job but what sort of titles they have shipped or total experience can have an impact on who is hired and who isnt.


    That being said. You need to pump up your awesomeness!! There is a mountain of non awesome you have to climb and there are other striving for awesome. You have to work more 3d,breath more 3d and keep at 3d because its how awesome will be achieved!!

    Hope my in depth advice helps :)
  • Nitewalkr
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    Nitewalkr polycounter lvl 9
    oXYnary wrote: »
    I thought maybe a thread on the positives of this career might be in order to help us all feel a little better, and possibly keep us from attacking one another. As there seems to be so much glum about the layoffs, all the new people trying to enter, and all the veterans jobless. While the shift to hire is to elsewhere.

    So.

    A: What positive keeps you in this career or wanted career? Even with all the doom and gloom.

    B: What do you do to overcome the negatives?

    A: As I realized how much time I was giving to my 3d modeling and programming practices. It is my passion, and there are no buts, ifs, or why to it. There is only What, When and how.

    In other words, I wouldnt reason with it just for laziness sake, if I have two arms and brain, I will follow and show, What needs to be done, How it will be done, and when it is presentable to others.

    B: I overcome my negativeness with simple fact that every other big company such as EA games, Blizzard, Activion, and etc. Started somewhere, which brought them up to the stage they are at right now. If they can do it, so can I. We do make mistakes in our daily lives while working on our stuff and learn from those mistakes, practice over and over until we get what we desire to learn.

    C: my own comment: people who were layed off, fired from the game companies shouldnt lose hope just due to that. Consider this an opportunity to join some other game company and bring something new to them, also they should consider the sort of gift they have made for their own selves, that what they do is lot more fun and it is expandable. (learning path that never ends)

    If you wish to start on your own there isnt anyone to lay you off is there. (I stress on this last sentence because I am following this road):D
  • tanka
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    tanka polycounter lvl 9
    @Hazardous That is some awesome advice, as many others have stated.

    Hazardous gave me some advice a fair while back, which resulted in me changing my whole game plan in regards to my portfolio and as a result getting myself a job. He knows what he is talking about, and anybody here trying to land a gig in the gaming industry would be wise to listen to what he says. :)

    As for the topic at hand, the games industry is a fairly daunting place at the moment.. but if this is what you really want to do with your life, you'll hang in there and won't stop until you get where you want to be. That is easier said then done though..
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 12
    JO420 wrote: »
    Seforin,it could be just that the job market is so oversaturated that all of the little intangibles could be working against you. Like the titles on your resume. I think you could have 2 equally talented artist can go head to head for a job but what sort of titles they have shipped or total experience can have an impact on who is hired and who isnt.


    That being said. You need to pump up your awesomeness!! There is a mountain of non awesome you have to climb and there are other striving for awesome. You have to work more 3d,breath more 3d and keep at 3d because its how awesome will be achieved!!

    Hope my in depth advice helps :)

    Agreed..I just today had a interview for a game company (1st one in 4 months!) And if all goes well I think that I will be singing a different tune soon.


    But regardless I still point back to "im going to listen to linkin park" comment :p
  • JO420
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    JO420 polycounter lvl 14
    seforin wrote: »
    Agreed..I just today had a interview for a game company (1st one in 4 months!) And if all goes well I think that I will be singing a different tune soon.


    But regardless I still point back to "im going to listen to linkin park" comment :p

    Ahh excellent,good luck man.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz greentooth
    well in future I will just not post any advice that might encourage anyone in a simplistic way.
    sorrry if that's so offensive. LOL I find it bizarre that anyone would respond so aggressively to a post so lacking any sort of malice.

    My 'you must be more awesome' advice applies as much to myself as it does to anyone else out there as there seems to be a hell of of a lot of good artists out there these days and not enough work to go around.

    I should have explained further that it's good to sit down and compare you work side by side with some of the greats like Kevin Johnstone or, Kite or Pior etc and think where you are in relation. you can 'always' push it further .

    And I certainly don't consider myself a 'big' name , just another struggling commercial artist so ther ya go
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    I'll second JO420, kick some ass for us Seforin!
  • Snacuum
    Q: Why should you give up?

    My A: Cause they are killing PC gaming! My god this kills me inside everyday. (please this is not an invitation to discuss piracy, companies are choosing to forsake pc.)

    Also I want to say that there's only one thing that I disagree with Hazard's epic advice post:

    Cut off everything that isn't art... Maybe that's the reason I'm not in the industry. Because I can't become an art machine for this cruel bitch monopoly. I have parts of my life that make my life and I will not destroy those connections just for the sake of it. Sure, maybe that's what it takes, but I as a human can't live in a world like that.
  • Hazardous
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    Hazardous polycounter lvl 11
    Snacuum wrote: »
    Cut off everything that isn't art... Maybe that's the reason I'm not in the industry. Because I can't become an art machine for this cruel bitch monopoly. I have parts of my life that make my life and I will not destroy those connections just for the sake of it. Sure, maybe that's what it takes, but I as a human can't live in a world like that.

    Fair enough mate, but I did say know when to stop, you dont need to go full hermit style, sitting with paper and pencil, tumbleweeds blowing past in your room. Though michaelangelo, and most of the other great artists of legend pretty much did lock themselves away from everyone and everything and became cooky pricks haha!

    What I did mean was organise your life so that you CAN cut yourself off for a block of time that you can devote to yourself.

    Also, if you think that by doing that makes you an art machine for the cruel bitch monopoly, youve completely missed the whole point of my post, which is to invest time into building your art skillset for yourself, not for any job, not for any industry not for anyone else, and to invest that time because you enjoy doing it, not because you have to - to survive.

    When you do that, shit will open up for you.
  • Josh_Singh
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    Josh_Singh polycounter lvl 13
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 12
    *different tune being sung
  • Gav
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    Gav ngon master
    If it helps any, I agree with Ruz. :)

    Not to rehash an old argument, but man, it's the truth. I guess it sucks to hear when you're already feeling down, but I think something we should all do - not JUST the people looking for a job - is pick an artistic level to strive for based on different artist's work. You live a bubble just being self loathing, you're going to go nowhere and definitely not going to progress like you should. I certainly wouldn't call it a simpleton view to keep an eye on your competition...

    I guess it's as useful as saying 'You don't have a job? Well, you should go get you one.' Stating the obvious, but what kind of advice would you give someone who is just basically frustrated that they can't get work - other than 'keep improving so that they will hire you?' At least that's better than some mindlessly positive like 'It will all work out!', 'Everything happens for a reason!'
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    Again, couldn't agree more with Hazardous. For every moment of great growth I've had as a student, I had to detatch myself from outside influences for weeks or months at a time to ride the excitement I'd built for the project at hand. It wasn't a sacrifice, it was incredible. Projects don't come along every day that grip you, it takes careful planning for where you are as an artist and where you want to go to put together such a project. You need to go balls to the wall at it with every intention of pushing it as hard as you can and it wont amount to jack diddly unless you've put the man hours to fail many times before.

    The harder you work on it and the longer hours you put into it, the harder you want to push. It feeds on itself and it's an amazing experience when you find your groove and ride it for weeks or months on end. The growth you attain in a 2 week spurt of hard 24/7 focused work can dwarf a casual years worth of study.

    When the unearthly challenge rolled around I told people they weren't going to see much of me for 2 months and for that duration I ate and slept 3d. Those 2 months of hard work help me every day now in my work, TREMENDOUSLY. When you log that many hours with the software inherent to your craft be it Maya, Max, Photoshop, or UDK, and use them in tandem for a sustained period of time you develope a tremendously fast workflow that you simply can't get through casual use. In this field, speed is quality.

    If you want to make it, you really gotta bust your ass. And you'll never have the energy to do that if you're not enjoying it or you feel it's busy work. When you're going at a new project it's up to you to convince yourself it's going to be hot shit and of tremendous important and push yourself hard to make it hot shit, better than anything you've ever done. Expect it to be the best piece of art ever made in 3D and that when you're done it WILL get you the job. In the end it most certainly wont be, but it'll be better than anything you've ever done and you'll have no regret whatsoever for pouring yourself into the project for countless hours on what you think is the most important project you've ever worked on, because at that moment, it was.
  • [Deleted User]
    I'm already a shut-in with no life outside of art, but my art still blows. How do I know when it's time to put the Glock in my mouth?
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 14
    the old Justin: graduated college and applied all over the place, eventually got one reply, a rejection letter from Lucasarts and pretty much gave up for 3 years

    the new Justin: applied all over the place, got rejected multiple times (even in person!) didn't even bat an eye, turned around and worked on more art tests and applications.

    take a look at my portfolio: http://www.artbyjustin.com/
    "wtf, how'd he get a job, I'm better than him!"
    It's called perserverance, Chuck. Try some, it's delicious.
  • Gardini
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    Gardini polycounter lvl 9
    Life can be more difficult...
    You could be a game designer graduated in Brazil
    That has serious problem with basic 3d things like Uvwmap, and retopology
    Do not speak and write a good English. (sorry for that)
    And don't have another profession to get money, and you live with your mother who invests everything she can to help you, and yet you can not move on. And your familly calls you "unproductive" (which is nonetheless true) why not have a job. Because there is a " NANO game industry " in your country ... sad




    Welcome to my life :\
    hard times, but you guys has a industry
    Sometimes i think to give-up but i don't know that to do.
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