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State of the Industry: Why you should or should not give up.

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  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    And since I have no industry experience, no company is going to pay for me to relocate.

    Have you been told this or are you just assuming? I felt the same way when I started out but companies still seem seem to be offering relocation packages. Remember, the bonus of a junior artist is that you're cheap.
  • Richard Kain
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    Richard Kain polycounter lvl 18
    Have you been told this or are you just assuming?

    Okay, you got me, I'm just assuming that. It's probably more of a matter of me not being very confident in my current portfolio. I don't think think any out-of-state company is going to want to pay for me to relocate after looking at my sub-par portfolio. Also, given my work experience, they would be far more likely to hire me as a web developer or UI coder than as a game artist.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    this is the positive thread soldier! stop being a cry baby and start being a try baby!

    Your portfolio is just 2 3d wips! Get 6 or more finished pieces in there, pronto!

    exclamation point!
  • DarthNater
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    DarthNater polycounter lvl 10
    A: What positive keeps you in this career or wanted career? Even with all the doom and gloom.

    -
    When I pop in any game Epic or Bethesda created, I think, someday, I could make something this cool...

    - I've been programming for like 8 to 9 years now (on and off) and I need the art to expand my creative side. I still love to program, but after my brain melts, the art pulls it all back together :) It's hard switching from technical thinking to creative thinking sometimes....

    - All the crappy threads I start here. Seriously, when someone says my work sucks, I want to prove them wrong. When someone likes my work, I want to give them more, so either way, you won't get rid of me :)

    B: What do you do to overcome the negatives?

    - Program - then I realize things could be a lot harder.
    - Look at others work.
    - Go take photos.
    - The last point in the previous question...
  • dejawolf
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    dejawolf polycounter lvl 18
    blabla bla whine whine, you know what, STFU and make art. and if you don't like working for some asshole in a suit, go freelance, or better, get some art-making friends together, and form a small art studio, then sell your work to different companies. i know a guy who does that stuff, and he charges 3500€ for a months work. i'm a little cheaper, i charge 2300€ for about 20 days of work. oh, and best of all, no crunches, and you can work from home.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    joking aside there seems to be a growing discontent with the games industry. You didn't get as many of these kind of threads a few years ago.
    Personally I never really enjoyed working full time in the industry and have given up even applying now. Freelancing is ok, but I have thought about becoming a plumber or similar of late

    TBH though I still enjoy making art too much to give it up totally
    My brother is a painter and decorator , has a 4 bed house 2 cars and a reasonable qualilty of life.

    I am the one with all the qualifications, yet it seems that if you want to make good money, commercial art is not the way to go .
    I for one do not really enjoy being treated like a dog and I will never again put my head on the block for companies who don't deserve the effort I put in to my work.
  • Richard Kain
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    Richard Kain polycounter lvl 18
    Your portfolio is just 2 3d wips! Get 6 or more finished pieces in there, pronto!

    (smart salute) Sir! Yes sir! I will get off my lazy ass and get cracking with the productivity sir! Nothing will get done unless I knuckle under and do it sir!

    Seriously, that is good advice. I'll put more time into this.
  • adam
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    adam polycounter lvl 19
    I'd like to counter Josh's point, not because I disagree with it - because I don't - but I think there's other aspects to this that are also true, and that aspect is this: If you do not suck (that is, you're at a level that inspires others) at being a 3D artist* or animating you'll never have trouble getting a job. In this business, there's those of us who can get by with doing what they're told at a decent level of completion, and there's those of us who get on by blowing their peers away continuously with the art set, knowledge of the business and good understanding of video games (design, theory, practice, management).

    *By 3D artist I mean someone who can model both in-game & highpoly meshes and texture their work.

    If you're the former, you're expendable. If you're the latter, you're priceless to a studio.

    So while its perfect people here and at other communities are learning their craft, I think its just as important as getting a better understanding about how this industry works from all the points I listed above. And not JUST what you think works based on a negative experience you may have had.

    "This industry is so fickle! I've been laid off twice!" There's more to it, than just that.
  • Junkie_XL
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    Junkie_XL polycounter lvl 14
    It's time to move to China. Who's with me and seforin?
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    Boredom? is that the reason of this thread? :P just make art!

    If you feel yourself exploited, just form your own company and make your own games, or better, find another job.

    You must LOVE this profession and what you do to don't quit :poly136:. I have been working like a chinese (it's an expression), resting myself hours of sleep, and would not like to be working as a plumber, seriously. There are too many people wishing for jobs related to computers.

    To work sitted, in front of a computer is better than anything else. Put bricks as a construction worker and say me, which was the best job...?

    cheer up people!
  • Sean VanGorder
    This is a terrible thread
  • Gallows
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    Gallows polycounter lvl 9
    wall of cheesey text
    It's the catch 22, and some people like myself and a ton of like minded people on this forum have a lasting impression from 3d and anything from conception to rigging a model. There's something tangible with this art. Like when I rig even a low poly model and weight it just right. You on that first movement of the main control and you see what you've worked on gain something that mimics life is a feeling that hasn't gone away but just grown exponentially. This industry may have its pitfalls(pun totally intended) but I think almost everyone on here, professional or hobbyist can vouch for that same feeling at least once. At the end of the day, yes most of live in a capitalist machine that means we need to be as marketable as we can, and as this is an entertainment business your job can be on the line a lot, but there is nothing as satisfying as making this kind of stuff, and to be able to do it just for a day is enough to keep me interested.

    point

    This industry is kind of busted and awesome at the same time, so if you care about it remotely, just suck it up and keep doing what you can, and if you're in any place to. Change it. You can quit or gripe all you want, but I'd rather be trying than saying fuck it.
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    Because drawing is cool, dummy, and people will pay you to make art for a living.

    How fucked up is your perspective if you think MAKING SCIFI FANTASY ART FOR A LIVING AND GETTING PAID FAIRLY WELL is a bad deal?
  • DarthNater
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    DarthNater polycounter lvl 10
    You know, maybe a lot of people feel that way because there seem's to be an uprising of thread like this, and others, that are complete downers. We need more inspirational art and less of this. I'm guilty of it too, so I'm not pointing any fingers. Honestly, I used to be terrified of posting anything here because I knew my art would get ripped to shreds. I don't feel that way anymore. I haven't gotten THAT much better, so I know it's not anything I did...

    Anyway, here is my point. If you're like me, and you just come here, hit the new post's button and look through that, you see a lot of useless threads and only a few that contain any work... More work people!
  • Gallows
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    Gallows polycounter lvl 9
    A: What positive keeps you in this career or wanted career? Even with all the doom and gloom.
    Mainly just having a restless mind over this stuff. I have many hobbies, but two obsessions. Spy vs. Spy and Games in general. Art, programming, animation, texturing, just reading articles on it can leave me feeling refreshed and have a yearning to keep at it. Also this forum, or sites like ModDB or the millions of indie made games where you kind of see the face of game design and not the machine that cranks one out into your console.

    B: What do you do to overcome the negatives?
    n1053109780_2027415_5007.jpg
    This. Long hair during my confused years makes life okay.
    Also don't hate on Galveston and Corpus. Totally surfable if you're patient.
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 16
    Blaizer wrote: »
    Boredom? is that the reason of this thread? :P just make art!

    If you feel yourself exploited, just form your own company and make your own games, or better, find another job.

    You must LOVE this profession and what you do to don't quit :poly136:. I have been working like a chinese (it's an expression), resting myself hours of sleep, and would not like to be working as a plumber, seriously. There are too many people wishing for jobs related to computers.

    To work sitted, in front of a computer is better than anything else. Put bricks as a construction worker and say me, which was the best job...?

    cheer up people!

    Not everyone can leave like that. People who have families, etc. Everyone does not have the connections/social skills/drive to form their own company. Or willing to take the risk. And I wouldnt say sitting in front of a computer automatically beats a job where you get to do physical labour. Physical labour can be very very satisfying.
    SupRore wrote: »
    How fucked up is your perspective if you think MAKING SCIFI FANTASY ART FOR A LIVING AND GETTING PAID FAIRLY WELL is a bad deal?

    Hey man, please give me that job! I don't make scifi/fantasy art and I'm not very well paid, so... most companies don't make scifi/fantasy either...
  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    Junkie_XL wrote: »
    It's time to move to China. Who's with me and seforin?

    I'm already there! Say hi once you're here - this place needs more polycounters :) btw did I mention we're hiring?

    feel free to PM me if you're serious
  • Junkie_XL
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    Junkie_XL polycounter lvl 14
    As long as they won't eat my cats and my bearded dragon. PM sent Kwramm.
  • moose
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    moose polycount sponsor
    //edit out from thread merge, not necessary anymore :)
  • Ride
    The job and money issue has gone too far. Let's get real, if you love this stuff then you would still do it in your spare time without pay. If you wouldn't do that, then you're probably in the wrong industry and would start threads like this.

    I know people has to make a living somehow...but sheesh i still see it as a hobby, and always will, getting paid for it is just an uber plus.
  • Koden
    Josh_Singh wrote: »
    I think I said this before, but If I ever wanted to get out of the games industry, and 3d All together, I would be heading to Electrician/Plumber School, Start my own business outta a Sweet Astro Van and charge outrageous amounts of money for my services.
    That being said, I think we artists should allways cross train. I feel bad for guys who can only Model, and Don't want to learn how to texture. Or guys who Can model texture but can't be creative enough to make their own concept. The Triple threat in my opinion is a guy who Can Model , Texture (straight up paint) and Animate (at a professional level). A guy like that will allways be able to find work imo.

    Its interesting that you mention this. Throughout my four years of schooling we have been taught and drilled and branded with the mindset that "No one wants a jack-of-all-trades. When you get into the industry, studios want someone who specializes in one area. Nobody wants someone who can animate and model. Its one or the other." Once we get into the real stuff, we more or less have to choose that one area.

    I definitely understand the benefits when you spec in one particular skill, but I for one like to tinker around with different areas. Its too bad many of us don't have the option to be formally trained in more than one area. Can we play with and practice these other fields on our spare time? Absolutely! I'd still like to be schooled in more than one area, especially with the money I'm throwing around.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Hey Josh, I agree with most of your points but I dont get what you mean about model+texture+animate.

    I mean that sounds cool but I've never really seen it and I dont think any relatively sized studio has the structure to give all these tasks to one person... As a matter of fact I feel like model+texture+concept is a better combo as it can basically land two different jobs (modeler or concept artist) whereas maintaining a good level at kickass models + animating them would be such a time investment it just wouldnt fit in the day...

    I have seen great animators putting together great renders but most of the time it looks gorgeous thanks to lighting and style, but not the much thanks modeling and texturing as we mean it in games.

    Or maybe you mean more like Hawkprey animating his weapon concepts at Epic ? I that case yeah - and I hope this kind of position will become the norm one day. Concept artists working fast and with a great understanding of forms in space, testing them out before passing them to the modelers!
  • Gav
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    Gav quad damage
    Koden, when asked I've also spouted that advice to a lot of people. What I think needs explanation is that, coming out of school (or just starting out..whatever), many students become overwhelmed with the different possibilities their career can go. I think this 'specialization' mentality has been confused with the production line mentality a lot of people have fallen into. Lots of people become so focused on one area they have completely overlooked other aspects of their industry - it's SO annoying to work with a ' modeler' who has no concept of UV mapping or painting weights. I guess what I'm saying is that, specialization is good, tunnel vision is bad. I'm a character artist, that includes modeling, uv mapping, texturing and helping with weighting and rigging where i can - that also means that I help with props and such when I am required to do so. That doesn't mean that I only ever model high res characters and hand it off to someone else.

    Obviously, I'm not answering for Josh...he's a big boy.

    To contribute to the purpose of the thread...Yeah, shit sucks right now, but it'll get better one way or another. I don't fault giant corporations for doing what they do, it's business. That's like me saying I hate Wal-Mart...which I don't. Sitting around and complaining to each other solves nothing, just waiting for one person to get an opportunity so we can all have hope. It's bullshit. People need to be more proactive about what they want, bust your ass - not just making art, but contributing to projects, building something out of nothing. If you really want something to happen, and you keep trying to make it happen, it'll probably happen. Like a three way with KP and EQ.
  • EarthQuake
    Seriously guys, do we need 2.... 3 threads for the same topic? Merged the first 2.
  • Firecracker197
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    Firecracker197 polycounter lvl 11
    I could say that "art is my dream" or "I was meant to do this" but really...I said I would do it so..I have to. That's basically my reason. That and I paid $100k for my school, and I don't know how to do anything else...

    But really, I'm just the kind of person that set goals for myself and so far everything has happened the way I wanted, I don't give up on any of those goals and that's what's kept me going this far. When times get rough, and we I get down and feel like I can't do it...I just keep going because there's really nothing else to do, giving up would just..suck.

    Life can be looked at 2 different ways, no matter what happens I just try and see the positive side, because the only reason people have lives that suck is because they choose to look at it like that. If I have a choice, why not choose to be happy? Making art makes me happy, but if I did something else, I'm sure I could find a way that could make me happy too.
  • MattQ86
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    MattQ86 polycounter lvl 14
    Oddly enough I was just listening to:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80GM64HkF5g[/ame]

    Has anybody ever gotten anywhere by worrying, complaining and being negative? Maybe the guy from Counting Crows, but you're not him so harden the fuck up son. Working in the industry is no doubt tough at times, but you need to not lose focus of the fact that you are joy-makers. You make entertainment that can, given the right situation, be very valuable to a person. I was just listening to the latest episode of The EA Podcast where one of the guys who's been working on The Sims for a long time was talking about a story from Iran where a reporter went back to her high school to see how the disaffected and repressed girls attending the high-school in a culture that gives women no real control over their future, and how for those girls one of their outlets for all this frustration was playing The Sims.

    So, maybe even the guy who busts his ass on crunch and gets laid off and has a lot to complain about also has something to be proud of.
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 17
    Junkie_XL wrote: »
    It's time to move to China. Who's with me and seforin?


    Hey hey dont you pull me into moving to china! I like my diet of eating meats! It will be a cold day in hell when I trade eating a steak for eatting rice! :p


    Edit: now if you excuse me my lunch of ramen noodles is getting cold (im still to poor to afford solid meaty foods right now :p )
  • vcortis
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    vcortis polycounter lvl 9
    A: What positive keeps you in this career or wanted career? Even with all the doom and gloom.


    I can't picture myself doing anything else. I love creating art, I love the technical side of it. Yeah I don't have a job, and my parents constantly pressured me into changing my major into engineering or joining the military, but damnit this is what I love to do, and I can't for the life of me resist that calling.


    B: What do you do to overcome the negatives?

    I view it all as inspiration. Everyones competition, I turn it into that. If I'm not working on my stuff, someone else is... and frankly I don't want that guy to take MY JOB. I want to be the best... so valuable that I become inexpendable to a company. I've been playing games since I was 5, hell I played the original Warcraft, and Myth series, Counterstrike on a freaking 56k back when that was normal (or shelling out 20 bucks to go play LAN for a few hours at a shop). I know games, I love them.

    There is 0 room for negativity in my life. All I need to do is look around me, I have loving family and friends. A GF who is head over heels for me. Clean water, food and a roof over my head.

    If anyone should be negative it should be people in Haiti and other third world countries living in poverty, but even most of them can find happiness in each other.
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    This is my hobby as well and I would do it anyway. I feel I have put a lot of effort into my portfolio and I am continually improving it to be more competitive. The fact that there aren't any jobs available is out of my hands; so in the mean time I'll just keep at it and keep living until I get a break. Besides, if I was going to get whiny or angsty about something, not getting a games industry job wouldn't be at the top of the list.

    I know a lot of my friends blame themselves for not getting a job or callbacks. Then through that discouragement and depression they stopped working on their 3d... This doesn't help at all it's counter productive.
  • JO420
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    JO420 polycounter lvl 18
    You know its easy to say things like "stop whining" and "if you love it youd do it in your spare time" but i also think some of you guys lack perspective. Maybe its the age or lack of experience,i dont know.

    I have been working in this industry now for 5 years or so,i love what i do for a living and on certain days it can feel like the best job in the world. I came into this industry wide eyed and eager to live out my childhood dream which i have to a large extent. But with experience and time you begin to gain some perspective on how this industry works and what it can do to the people who work in it. 2009 was a tough year for alot of people in this industry,there were many studio closures and job losses.

    But as you get older you begin to experience life a little more,maybe along the way you get married,maybe you have kids,make friends or settle down somewhere, it becomes increasingly harder to move on and start from scratch all over. After going through alot of the shit this industry throws at you when you get older you begin to think about or even question the long term prospects of working in this industry. What kind of future can this industry provide for you as you get older after seeing the way it functions? While working in Denmark i met my wife,then my company went bankrupt and i was forced to work in another country away from her due to lack of jobs in Denmark. I was lucky to find work pretty close to Denmark but i am also left with a nagging question.

    Once the game i am working on goes gold,will my reward for all of my effort be a big fat pink slip? What then? I have seen how shitty the job market is,especially in europe,what do i do if that is the case? I have worked long enough in this industry to know how it functions so i cant help but to wander what sort of future it has in store for me. I think this happens to alot of people in this industry when they get older,moving on to a new city and new jo becomes harder when you have more to think about then yourself. After awhile you get a desire to place down roots somewhere but the sad fact of the matter is that the games industry at least is very volatile and very small,so being out of a job after a project is not hard to imagine. Ive met other developers who have had ruined marriage,nervous breakdowns,estranged children,etc,etc,unless you have been real lucky in this industry it is real hard not to be pessimistic.

    Sadly there is a reason why so many people get burned out working in this industry.


    I can imagine how hard it must be coming out of school into this job market as well.
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] polycounter lvl 18
    Wow, I was reading the negative thread when the merge happened, and I got really confused for a second. Haha.

    I can be a pretty negative guy sometimes. I make an effort not to be, but it still creeps in now and then. This thread though, man, I don't get it.

    I can see being negative about the industry, sure. But not because it's making asshole CEOs rich or because the stupid angry public is going to whine about your work. That's nothing. That's every job. Work some. They're terrible.

    The only thing negative about this industry that would warrant giving up (or at least the only thing that's made me consider giving up) is the seemingly unattainable level of mastery needed to have any chance of finding employment.

    I love this stuff. I really do. It's the only thing I know anything about because it's the only career path I've ever seriously considered or learned anything about. But the negative thing about it is that it's not like becoming a nurse or an accountant. It's not enough to just know how to do it. It's not even enough to be pretty good at it. It's a gamble to even be really good at it, I suspect. No sir. You have to be epically miraculously overwhelmingly godlike in your ability to even stand a chance at finding work in this industry.

    Everybody and their kid brother loves doing CG. There are millions of people out there whittling away at their game art portfolios trying to make a career of their paaaaahhhhssion for art and games. But realistically, even if you're just going to end up making rocks and floor textures all day every day, you're going to have to be a rockstar to get hired because the bar is just that high.

    In other words:
    119rmdi.jpg
    Waka waka waka waka waka

    It's just senseless whining to people who've made it already, or a pre-game locker room pep talk for the kids just out of college who are still sure they'll make it. I try to be that positive about it, but the truth is, shit's getting kinda grim for me. It's hard to watch people I grew up with owning homes and starting families and not think I blew my shot at a real adult life by sticking to my childish dreams without a solid backup plan. Melodramatic, I know. But as much fun as I have making stuff in 3d, it's really hard to pretend I'm not sort of hanging off a cliff here.
  • JO420
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    JO420 polycounter lvl 18
    Well fly,down get down on yourself too much. I think right now its a particularly poisonous job market for people out of school and or with no experience.
  • mLichy
    JO420, very nice post. I always keep some of that stuff in the back of my head. Possible job loss, wanting to settle down, stress, relationship stuff and whatnot. Right now I guess I'm more or less along for the ride, and am waiting to see what happens within the next 6 months to 1 year.

    I feel very fortunate to be where I am, but also have been working hard to make sure I keep my job. But that only goes so far, and it could end suddenly I know. I just try to stay as positive as I can each day, and have fun and enjoy the ride. You never know when it will end.

    But I do know now that, even though I've wanted this for so long, if it happens that my career is jeopardizing my family or something, I would prob. be looking for another job. When you're young you sometimes only see the end and not the things in-between, but as you get older you realize what things become more important.

    I guess I'm basically just talking about the same stuff as JO420 just did, but that's also how I feel about the industry and about most jobs I guess.
  • KateC
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    KateC polycounter lvl 7
    A few years ago when I was doing illustration work I remember a very similar mentality going around, but back then it was about internet stock houses like Getty and Corbis coming in and sweeping all the work, and how illustration and photography were dying professions because of it.

    It seems like there's always something just around the corner in any given art profession that could drag things under, but I'm going to parrot what's been said above and hope for the best.

    ...But good goddamn, seeing threads like this is enough to make me feel guilty for going to school for this stuff.
  • ShadowFox
    welllll this thread got turned back into a ALL NEWBIES ARE FUCKED! AND PRO'S DIE HARDDD!

    Im fairly sure things will start to look up at some point, although as a back up, im broadening my studies, to focus on open fields.

    *dream time* then ill finish my uni, get a degree get the job ive always wanted, become a millionaire, set up an empire indie company, buyout EA, blow all my cash, become a hooker, die in debt, i won the game of life!

    ^^ its a comfort to know life is what you make of it! :thumbup:
  • JO420
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    JO420 polycounter lvl 18
    Mlichy,despite all the worry i still love my job. If it wasnt for 3d i would still be stuck in Houston Texas miserable as hell. Being able to live and work in Europe in my early 20's is something i would have never been able to experience doing some other job. I still remember the look on my fathers face the day i told him i was moving to Amsterdam after struggling 5 years to make it into this industry. Quite ironiclly my mom told me playing video games would never get me anywhere. If it wasnt for 3d i would have never met my wife.
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    Because student loans will hold you down and *(&$ you for the rest of your life if you don't make it. And yes, for the children :D.
  • Autocon
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    Autocon polycounter lvl 15
    I do it for the money.


    Na I'm just kidding. But seriously, its all about the money.
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 17
    Autocon wrote: »
    I do it for the money.


    Na I'm just kidding. But seriously, its all about the money.

    just trying to not get kicked in the balls huh? :p
  • Thegodzero
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    Thegodzero polycounter lvl 18
    AutoCon, you might not want to say that when you work at bungie... one of the higher paying studios.
  • vcortis
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    vcortis polycounter lvl 9
    Autocon,

    Tell Bungie to buy back the rights to the Myth series! Please I'd love you forever.

    On a side note, what I don't think a lot of people realize is that the way America is moving isn't the same as it was 50 years ago. My Dad worked for the same company for 35 years, that simply doesn't happen anymore.

    3 out of 5 of my closest friends parents lost their jobs after having worked for the same company for over 20 years this past holiday season. Another one of my friends Dads has been out of work for 3 years and he used to be the Vice President of a major Drug company.

    It isn't JUST this industry that is hurting, let me assure you that. All jobs are volatile now, no one is really safe... well unless you're in healthcare or something but even then.

    It's the way America is moving, they're more concerned with making a buck than they are taking care of their citizens and fellow people. Everyones looking to screw each other over if it benefits them, wether they tell you or not.

    To most CEO's with over inflated pockets you're not a person, you are just a form of working capital, and expendable.

    Honestly the best thing that could happen in this industry is for working people like those on these forums to start their own companies and create not just a work crew, but a family that builds games.

    I realize how hard that is... especially hard to get funding, but hell if I had one real dream it wouldn't be to work for some big company making big games. It'd be to start my own, and help some people out by giving them a job they can rely on.

    Unfortunately, most people at the top were never in our shoes, and don't really see the average workers point of view.
  • Stubbs
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    Stubbs polycounter lvl 17
    I agree with the people on here who say it's pointless to whine and just work on art anyways. But while I do agree with this, I also believe this is far more easier said then done, and if you are one of the people who are saying "stop whining" while meanwhile you are currently working at a respectable game studio you should probably have a bit more sympathy for the artists out there who are wondering how to pay their bills. That's not to say I disagree with you, its just that there are truths on both sides of this argument.

    Last job I had was at a small start-up here in AZ. It went under back in June barely a week after we finished the project and I have been having a very difficult time landing a job since. At this point I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that the job market is just too flooded for me to get a job and perhaps it's not in the cards anymore. I have shipped-title experience and people seem to like my work but these things don't change the fact that I'm still having to live with family in a crummy area and am barely able to pay bills.

    That said I know it could be worse and there are people out there who have it worse. And although throughout this time I have been experiencing my share of frustration and worry, this time out of the industry has benefited me in other ways, both when it comes to art and especially when it comes to my life in general.

    For example, while still working in the industry I didn't know Maya or ZBrush, because quite frankly I never had to, but since getting laid off I took the time to learn them to the point where I was able to make some portfolio pieces with those programs. This is something I may not have done if the start-up I was at was still chugging along. In addition to that I've been working on myself more. I have started to exercise on a regular basis and am really getting that area handled, and I am meditating too, which is proving to be endlessly rewarding. I also have been interested in creating music and right now have the time to do so. Even if I never get a game job I can still use my 3D and drawing skills to make art to go along with my upcoming music project. So this rough situation has been benefiting me, just as long as I keep making use of the time.

    I suppose what I'm trying to say is that this job situation no doubt sucks and there are so many talented artists out there who are getting the shaft because the higher-ups care more about percentage points. But despite this, if you are in this situation and are not working full-time, think of how you could use this to improve yourself as a person, whether it's as an artist or in unrelated areas. You may find yourself benefiting in ways you never would have if your last game studio was still crawling along. I realize this may be easier said then done, but still, perhaps all of this is happening for a reason.
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    Great points and great attitude stubbs. The recession's no fun, but as they say, poverty is a state of mind.
  • Marcus Dublin
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    Marcus Dublin polycounter lvl 17
    Josh_Singh wrote: »
    The Triple threat in my opinion is a guy who Can Model , Texture (straight up paint) and Animate (at a professional level). A guy like that will allways be able to find work imo.

    Well said Josh! Although you may want to throw in Digital sculpting as well, which is a skill in and of itself.

    Also, texturing and texture painting seem to be a lost art among the newer artists coming into the field. It seems that you have a lot of people who are infatuated with the modeling and sculpting aspect of 3d art but tend to fall by the way side when it comes to creating skins (people, places, things). I guess this a benefit to those who are proficient at doing so but I would strongly suggest to those looking to break in to invest some time into this valuable skill set!
  • Lamont
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    Lamont polycounter lvl 15
    It seems that you have a lot of people who are infatuated with the modeling and sculpting aspect of 3d art but tend to fall by the way side when it comes to creating skins (people, places, things).
    Even then, painting a texture from scratch instead of being "image manipulators". It looks awesome when people paint textures from scratch, even toon-ish textures look awesome.

    I am guilty of image manipulation :P.
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 18
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    Seriously guys, do we need 2.... 3 threads for the same topic? Merged the first 2.

    Hey! I had nothing to do with those copycats.. Theirs weren't trying to be positive either.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Isn't texturing from scratch like the only decent/professional way to do these things? That's what I sorta think now that I've reached a level where I paint 95% of things from scratch.

    And regarding that triple threat, what about being able to model, texture and program ? Isn't that more relevant/useful ? (I'm asking 'cuz I fall short for animating but I can code :p)
  • Snacuum
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    Snacuum polycounter lvl 9
    I'm definitely one of those newbs that you would say "Give up! You'll never be good enough." But if I did then what would I do. Sure I'm another kid with a stupid dream and if I haven't made it already then I don't really have the 'passion' I say I do. But which kids would rather lay down and die than lose that dream?

    I'm a broken human, I hate my current job even though it's better than most, I spend my time knowing that I don't want to do that. And yet when I get home and open up some 3d I don't want to do that either. Yet it is all I want to do. Game is Me and Me is Games. Wanna go out on the town? Nah, I'm playing games. Wanna go sky-diving? Nah I'm gonna think about some cool games ideas. Maybe I'm just a lazy hippie then. Maybe I could be a games journalist or just test them or something; oh wait, you need qualifications and experience to brake into those areas too. (Well on the testing front I know I could do it but no success there either.)

    Bringing it down onto the original question:
    Why do i have a positive outlook even in this terrible state of affairs?

    Hmmm, it's a toughie since everyday it looks worse and the industry continues to show me reasons to hate it. But the answer is: So I can make my game. I know that the industry is filled with young hopefuls both in and out with a million ideas and such just like me. Hell my game isn't particularly innovative either. But it is my dream, my reason for living. It is my will to make that game and many others to spread my love of games and bring smiles to many who play them. And for being under the heels of a heartless CEO, well, if I can't get in to make great games then I'll never be in a position to help change the harsh nature of working in the industry.

    I have dedicated much of my time to art, (obviously not to attain the level you guys have thus far.) Yet I must say as I wrote this, I sound terribly much more like a designer.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    oXYnary wrote: »
    Hey! I had nothing to do with those copycats.. Theirs weren't trying to be positive either.

    Mine was meant to be a joke.
  • Wahlgren
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    Wahlgren polycounter lvl 17
    seforin wrote: »
    Hey hey dont you pull me into moving to china! I like my diet of eating meats! It will be a cold day in hell when I trade eating a steak for eatting rice! :p


    Edit: now if you excuse me my lunch of ramen noodles is getting cold (im still to poor to afford solid meaty foods right now :p )
    Seforin, You'll probably get far more meat in china than you ever did in america. Yeah i went there, big woop, wanna fight about it? :)

    Shit i remember my all meat bbq-at-your-table dinners from when i was over there. Your stomach will die from it... mine did.
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