"We have lots of compassion for those affected," Electronic Arts CEO John Riccitiello said today of the publisher's 1,500 planned layoffs, but he added that "these cuts are essential to transforming our company."
I mean, clearly it's the fault of the developers making the games they were ordered to make. Each programmer, with every line of code, each artist, with ever vertice, built the weapons of their demise. The helpless managers told them exactly what game the market was craving, and they just couldn't get it through the thick heads of the simple peons devoted to creating their socially guided masterpieces to market.
Just like the auto industry. When will all of us simple laborers learn to properly follow the angellic master plans of our managerial overlords properly, so that we might reap another 12 month cycle of breadcrumbs from their gilded table?
Stop applying for jobs with companies that are known to be run by gaping assholes EA and Activision, a few others). That'll sort out the way they treat their staff fairly quickly.
These layoffs aren't down to any recession, it's just greed. They hire by the hundreds because they insist on working on three titles at a time, and then when those are finished, instead of having new games to go straight into development with, they cut their staff lose because they couldn't give two shits. I don't even want to work in this industry anymore. Why bust my ass for years only to work in a job where there is no job security? Doesn't really matter if I get to zbrush orcs or whatever all day, if I can never relax and know my job will still be there four months down the line despite my good performance because of wankers who never should have been let into the higher echelons of this industry, its not worth it. Fuck that shit.
Stop applying for jobs with companies that are known to be run by gaping assholes EA and Activision, a few others). That'll sort out the way they treat their staff fairly quickly.
These layoffs aren't down to any recession, it's just greed. They hire by the hundreds because they insist on working on three titles at a time, and then when those are finished, instead of having new games to go straight into development with, they cut their staff lose because they couldn't give two shits. I don't even want to work in this industry anymore. Why bust my ass for years only to work in a job where there is no job security? Doesn't really matter if I get to zbrush orcs or whatever all day, if I can never relax and know my job will still be there four months down the line despite my good performance because of wankers who never should have been let into the higher echelons of this industry, its not worth it. Fuck that shit.
(Hope everyone lands on their feet soon)
I share your apathy. I've been practicing for so long and now when it feels like I might be ready to start applying around I feel I've been wasting my time for the past few years.
The biggest problem seems to be with developers that are owned by companies with publicly traded stock. Your job is dependent on the bellyaches of the shareholders. Private developers don't seem to have nearly as many of these layoffs unless they were run poorly.
I'm staying in the US, we almost considered Montreal but me and the girlfriend decided a quickie marriage so she could get a visa is about as romantic as a "whoops, I'm pregnant" marriage.
And healthcare, a real retirement system, and public transportation, and higher average lifespan and lower infant mortality rates....
You're kidding, right?
I don't want to derail this thread, because a lot of good people lost their jobs yesterday, but if you value things like quality of life, don't move to England.
The healthcare system is in the toilet because of chronic mismanagement of public funds, as instead of hiring crucial staff like nurses, they've overspent on consultants and middle-managers supposedly in place to ensure more efficient service. Needless to say, this hasn't happened and the proposed changes have been in transition for almost ten years. Admittedly, it's better than nothing but it's far from the standard you'd expect considering the rate of taxation.
Retirement here is nothing short of a joke. I won't go into specifics, but unless you earn serious coin, saving is very difficult because of the excessive cost of living, and the state pension system is nothing short of an insult. If you think you can live on less than £100 a week, then yes, it's excellent.
I won't comment on public transport here, because London's public transport is a) pretty decent, but b) much more dangerous than maybe other places. And all this is before you consider that the police are virtually invisible, there's no justice as and when any arrests are made, the housing market is suicidally expensive, especially for first-time buyers, civil liberties and the protection of those liberties is being eroded faster here than in most Western European countries.....
Seriously, if you want a decent quality of life, don't move here. We moved here from the States four years ago, and after less than a year we already regretted it. We've been trying to get back pretty much ever since.
Anyways, apologies to those affected by EA's 'restructuring' for ranting off-topic.
Ugh, that's really gut-wrenching. I hope everyone who was let go saw this coming and has a nice amount of savings stashed away to ride it out until you land a new gig, or better yet, saw the writing on the wall and got a new job lined up already. This last year has been depressing for the industry and I hope it forces those in charge to rethink things,
I made it through fine - sucks having new IP projects cancelled though. Not many layoffs at Blackbox, those already happened a couple months ago and was related to the new IP project and some staff shuffling. I'm going onto a big franchise, or have the option of taking a massive severance package if I want. Well, I suppose Bioware or DICE are options too to stay with the company but I'd have to move. It's tempting to take the money - only shitty thing is I don't think there's any really interesting projects in Vancouver right now... unless I'm mistaken. Anyone know anything?
They have become a dirty word because of a concerted PR campaign by the wealthy business owners that benefit from having them gone. Unions can have flaws, but they pale in comparison to the mistreatment that arises from their lack. I can guarantee you that the bad reputation doesn't come from people within the unions hating all their protection and proper wage raises/pensions/health care.
unions are horse shit. ya, it saves people from losing jobs, but at the same time, it keeps around the shitty workers that dont deserve to still be at that job.
...keeps around the shitty workers that dont deserve to still be at that job.
You mean like the upper management of these companies that keep posting losses? It sure isn't bad 3d artists making poor art that's keeping the games from selling, it's crap game design, mismanaged schedules, mismanaged marketing, improper funding and or time, all things management is in charge of, yet the grunts get the shaft.
I'd rather have unions protecting a few shit artists, than no unions and getting shafted because of shit managers.
why hire a bunch of expensive union workers when you can have 2 or 3 managers handle outsourcing to countries were the wages are a third the cost? I do believe there is an animators guild that includes CG artists but outsourcing has already decimated the animation industry, it's all done in Korea.
When i was at Sonly Online Entertainment i used to do QA on assets created by India, been about 2 years since then, but at that time they had a Looooong way to go. Video games aren't like a TV show that runs for years and never has a character change, there's an immense amount of communication required for good game art that fits with the game it's made for.
If we're going to talk about unions, I think it's only fair to not lump every single union into the same boat. There are good unions and bad unions and some are in between. The animation guild in LA does not have a giant list of unemployed workers sitting around earning thousands of dollars for doing nothing, and you can certainly get fired quickly from a studio. The only difference in that situation is that the union can file a grievance for you, which I'd think is something nice to have considering the incredibly uneven power dynamic between a large corporation and an individual artist.
And regarding Justin's comment -- when quality is necessary, companies don't outsource. The animation guild in LA seems pretty decent, from what I gather, and I find it interesting that union studios appear to pay more on average (compare Dreamworks, a union studio, to Pixar, who for years has been rumored to pay less simply because it can). Or ask the people at Imageworks who voted against joining the union back in the day because their full-time benefits were great... until Sony significantly cut back on benefits and today the employees would be better off if they were part of the guild.
I'm not a rah-rah-rah unions are always good guy, but the amount of leverage we don't have as individual employees is scary stuff.
since when is having a contract of employment stating you can only be laid off if:
you're being genuinely made redundant, meaning the company CAN NOT employ anyone else to fill the same role as yours for the next 6 months.
you've committed gross misconduct.
you're failing to meet expectations, after being performance managed for a period of 3 months or longer, and still not made significant improvement.
how is that kind of contract a bad thing? because those are the basic working contracts we have in england, and we only have those BECAUSE of unions. even if you're not a member of a union, companies here recognise that they have to offer those kind of securities or nobody would WANT to work for them.
it's been said time and time again that people need to either put up or shut up in this industry, and these layoffs are just more proof of that. either fight for what you want, or shut up.
gir, england and the states/canada is completely different in terms of work. but if you have contracts, ya, its generally more secure than if you are just hired as a fulltime employee. im not COMPLETELY sure how it works here if you can still be laid off if u have a contract. i think it would depend on the contract. but full time employees dont have contracts. they can work for 20 years in the same place, where as if you did do contract work with the same company, you`re there till the end of the contract, then you`re gone. good in the sence that you know its coming and can plan for the lack of job.
i think you're misunderstanding what i mean by contract.
i'm not talking about freelance work, or a contract with a definite period of employment. i just mean a basic, sign it and work forever and ever and ever contract.
typically, they'll say "you're contracted to work x amount of hours per week, you'll be paid this much per hour."
the only way such employment is ever terminated, is as i said, if you fuck up royally, if you suck at your job, or if you're made redundant. if you ever want to leave the job volunterily you have to give an amount of notice proportionate to your time at that company, usually 1 week per year worked up to a maximum of 4 weeks. can be longer depending on the company though.
the redundancy issue is great too. if a company makes any of its employees within a certain role redundant, it deems that POSITION un-needed, not necessarily the employee, so while the employee may get the shaft, the company can not, legally, employ anyone else for that role for a period of 6 months.
sure, there's things in england that suck balls. but standard working contracts with guaranteed job security for anyone that's not a retard or an asshole? yes please.
Gir, welcome to the idea of a "right to work" state. It means that at any time, an employer can lay you off. No reason necessary. They don't even have to tell you why. Two weeks pay, and off you go.
Maybe someone else knows more, but I'm fairly certain that contracts can't supersede this, so even if you get hired with a 3 year contract, it's just laying out the terms if you are employed those 3 years. However if the company decides it's finished with you, 2 weeks and you're gone.
Virginia, Texas, and California are all "right to work" states. There are others but I haven't worked in other states.
Maybe someone else knows more, but I'm fairly certain that contracts can't supersede this, so even if you get hired with a 3 year contract, it's just laying out the terms if you are employed those 3 years. However if the company decides it's finished with you, 2 weeks and you're gone.
My wife is a graphic designer, and this has happened to her again and again right here in London. The main factor in these situations is the distinction drawn between a freelancer, and what many people here have probably worked as when freelancing, a fixed-term contractor.
Many companies, to circumvent the necessity of boring details like guaranteed contract durations, maximum working hours and such is to list the vacancy as a 'freelance' position, not as a fixed-term contract. This ensures that, under the present laws of this country, that they can get you in, have you save their ass on a project, then can you with no legal recourse. This is because many freelancers can be considered temps, with the same lack of workplace rights, unlike fixed-term contractors, which have the same rights as full-time employees during their contract with an employer.
Of course, the assholes at Number 10 tell us that this is changing, that legislation is being drawn up that would protect the rights of 'freelance' workers, but we've yet to see it. What's even more common (in the graphic design industry in London) is working for a recruitment agency rather than their clients directly, purely for the same reason - save the badly-managed project, then wipe their hands with you thanks to the gaping hole in worker's rights.
Keep in mind though Dan, right to work states cover every single person, contract, freelance, or otherwise. The freelance loophole in the UK sounds crappy, but I'm pretty sure if you have a legit contract, then you do get legit protections.
It's similar to the "creatives" loophole that EA and others were trying to exploit in CA about unpaid overtime. Creative types are actually people that dictate their own tasks, which could result in them creating a task that requires overtime, but since 3d Artist are given their tasks and they have very definite creation times that we don't get to dictate, we don't fall under "creatives" and have to be paid for overtime. Legally at least, and that's why the lawsuits were lost.
That was right about when I left CA though, can any CA polycounters confirm if the overtime payment has been rectified, or are most companies still managing to finagle illegal unpaid overtime hours?
Keep in mind though Dan, right to work states cover every single person, contract, freelance, or otherwise. The freelance loophole in the UK sounds crappy, but I'm pretty sure if you have a legit contract, then you do get legit protections.
Oh, absolutely. If you do land a fixed-term contract, then yeah - you've got the same rights, privileges and protections as a full-time employee, and that's exactly how it should be. It's the lengths that some supposedly-reputable organizations will go to in order to avoid these working conditions for their freelancers that pisses me off.
actually right to work states are states where the employer can't discriminate against you if you are or aren't part of a union. Basically you can't run a shop that only hires union workers and you also can't run a shop that won't hire union workers. And you can't fire a union worker for being late on their dues.
the terms of how and why you get fired/laid off and what they owe you is in the contract you sign.
This is what says you can be fired at any time for any reason in states that follow that legislature (such as Texas). Texas (along with 12 other states) also expressly states that no implied contract exceptions will keep you from at will firing.
This is what says you can be fired at any time for any reason in states that follow that legislature (such as Texas). Texas (along with 12 other states) also expressly states that no implied contract exceptions will keep you from at will firing.
That's it, "at will" I got the name wrong, but the law is the same. Fire for any reason. This is an easy way for employers to get around discrimination too.
and it looks like from wikipedia that California isn't one, but Texas and Virginia are.
These sack anytime laws are ridiculous, so they would fire productive employee's just because someone in upper management takes a disliking to them? Glad I live in the UK although your immigration laws are so much better in the US.
I was talking about this the other day with a friend and I couldn't believe that there wouldn't be some 'protection' for the employee and he could not believe that I expected it to be a standard for every employee. I live in Europe and he lives in the US as you may have guessed.
Sorry for derailing a bit, but can anyone give some info on how this stuff is in Canada, compared to Europe and/or US?
Replies
Hope everyone effected lands on there feet.
I'm going to bed now.
Perhaps the success of BF1943 saved us this time. But you never know.
Just like the auto industry. When will all of us simple laborers learn to properly follow the angellic master plans of our managerial overlords properly, so that we might reap another 12 month cycle of breadcrumbs from their gilded table?
Stop applying for jobs with companies that are known to be run by gaping assholes EA and Activision, a few others). That'll sort out the way they treat their staff fairly quickly.
These layoffs aren't down to any recession, it's just greed. They hire by the hundreds because they insist on working on three titles at a time, and then when those are finished, instead of having new games to go straight into development with, they cut their staff lose because they couldn't give two shits. I don't even want to work in this industry anymore. Why bust my ass for years only to work in a job where there is no job security? Doesn't really matter if I get to zbrush orcs or whatever all day, if I can never relax and know my job will still be there four months down the line despite my good performance because of wankers who never should have been let into the higher echelons of this industry, its not worth it. Fuck that shit.
(Hope everyone lands on their feet soon)
I hate thread like this...
Hope u guys find job soon...
I share your apathy. I've been practicing for so long and now when it feels like I might be ready to start applying around I feel I've been wasting my time for the past few years.
The biggest problem seems to be with developers that are owned by companies with publicly traded stock. Your job is dependent on the bellyaches of the shareholders. Private developers don't seem to have nearly as many of these layoffs unless they were run poorly.
EA, Activision, THQ, etc = meh.
(j/k haven't given up yet, but this is simply ridiculous.)
lol
And healthcare, a real retirement system, and public transportation, and higher average lifespan and lower infant mortality rates....
You're kidding, right?
I don't want to derail this thread, because a lot of good people lost their jobs yesterday, but if you value things like quality of life, don't move to England.
The healthcare system is in the toilet because of chronic mismanagement of public funds, as instead of hiring crucial staff like nurses, they've overspent on consultants and middle-managers supposedly in place to ensure more efficient service. Needless to say, this hasn't happened and the proposed changes have been in transition for almost ten years. Admittedly, it's better than nothing but it's far from the standard you'd expect considering the rate of taxation.
Retirement here is nothing short of a joke. I won't go into specifics, but unless you earn serious coin, saving is very difficult because of the excessive cost of living, and the state pension system is nothing short of an insult. If you think you can live on less than £100 a week, then yes, it's excellent.
I won't comment on public transport here, because London's public transport is a) pretty decent, but b) much more dangerous than maybe other places. And all this is before you consider that the police are virtually invisible, there's no justice as and when any arrests are made, the housing market is suicidally expensive, especially for first-time buyers, civil liberties and the protection of those liberties is being eroded faster here than in most Western European countries.....
Seriously, if you want a decent quality of life, don't move here. We moved here from the States four years ago, and after less than a year we already regretted it. We've been trying to get back pretty much ever since.
Anyways, apologies to those affected by EA's 'restructuring' for ranting off-topic.
Time to move on to other bigger and better things!
Personally, Unions are a damn good thing, and I know people who've had their jobs saved by Unions in other work (Particularly round last xmas.).
Quite frankly, you end up with unions, it generally stops as much of this occuring, at least to the same extent.
My condolsenses to all thsoe who've just lost jobs, good luck finding new ones.
Many unions in other industries are out of touch now, it's become a dirty word, so we'll have to call it something else.
How about the "Fairness in the Game Industry Regulation Association"
ahh, that felt bad AS I typed it.
You mean like the upper management of these companies that keep posting losses? It sure isn't bad 3d artists making poor art that's keeping the games from selling, it's crap game design, mismanaged schedules, mismanaged marketing, improper funding and or time, all things management is in charge of, yet the grunts get the shaft.
I'd rather have unions protecting a few shit artists, than no unions and getting shafted because of shit managers.
And regarding Justin's comment -- when quality is necessary, companies don't outsource. The animation guild in LA seems pretty decent, from what I gather, and I find it interesting that union studios appear to pay more on average (compare Dreamworks, a union studio, to Pixar, who for years has been rumored to pay less simply because it can). Or ask the people at Imageworks who voted against joining the union back in the day because their full-time benefits were great... until Sony significantly cut back on benefits and today the employees would be better off if they were part of the guild.
I'm not a rah-rah-rah unions are always good guy, but the amount of leverage we don't have as individual employees is scary stuff.
you're being genuinely made redundant, meaning the company CAN NOT employ anyone else to fill the same role as yours for the next 6 months.
you've committed gross misconduct.
you're failing to meet expectations, after being performance managed for a period of 3 months or longer, and still not made significant improvement.
how is that kind of contract a bad thing? because those are the basic working contracts we have in england, and we only have those BECAUSE of unions. even if you're not a member of a union, companies here recognise that they have to offer those kind of securities or nobody would WANT to work for them.
it's been said time and time again that people need to either put up or shut up in this industry, and these layoffs are just more proof of that. either fight for what you want, or shut up.
i'm not talking about freelance work, or a contract with a definite period of employment. i just mean a basic, sign it and work forever and ever and ever contract.
typically, they'll say "you're contracted to work x amount of hours per week, you'll be paid this much per hour."
the only way such employment is ever terminated, is as i said, if you fuck up royally, if you suck at your job, or if you're made redundant. if you ever want to leave the job volunterily you have to give an amount of notice proportionate to your time at that company, usually 1 week per year worked up to a maximum of 4 weeks. can be longer depending on the company though.
the redundancy issue is great too. if a company makes any of its employees within a certain role redundant, it deems that POSITION un-needed, not necessarily the employee, so while the employee may get the shaft, the company can not, legally, employ anyone else for that role for a period of 6 months.
sure, there's things in england that suck balls. but standard working contracts with guaranteed job security for anyone that's not a retard or an asshole? yes please.
Maybe someone else knows more, but I'm fairly certain that contracts can't supersede this, so even if you get hired with a 3 year contract, it's just laying out the terms if you are employed those 3 years. However if the company decides it's finished with you, 2 weeks and you're gone.
Virginia, Texas, and California are all "right to work" states. There are others but I haven't worked in other states.
My wife is a graphic designer, and this has happened to her again and again right here in London. The main factor in these situations is the distinction drawn between a freelancer, and what many people here have probably worked as when freelancing, a fixed-term contractor.
Many companies, to circumvent the necessity of boring details like guaranteed contract durations, maximum working hours and such is to list the vacancy as a 'freelance' position, not as a fixed-term contract. This ensures that, under the present laws of this country, that they can get you in, have you save their ass on a project, then can you with no legal recourse. This is because many freelancers can be considered temps, with the same lack of workplace rights, unlike fixed-term contractors, which have the same rights as full-time employees during their contract with an employer.
Of course, the assholes at Number 10 tell us that this is changing, that legislation is being drawn up that would protect the rights of 'freelance' workers, but we've yet to see it. What's even more common (in the graphic design industry in London) is working for a recruitment agency rather than their clients directly, purely for the same reason - save the badly-managed project, then wipe their hands with you thanks to the gaping hole in worker's rights.
It's similar to the "creatives" loophole that EA and others were trying to exploit in CA about unpaid overtime. Creative types are actually people that dictate their own tasks, which could result in them creating a task that requires overtime, but since 3d Artist are given their tasks and they have very definite creation times that we don't get to dictate, we don't fall under "creatives" and have to be paid for overtime. Legally at least, and that's why the lawsuits were lost.
That was right about when I left CA though, can any CA polycounters confirm if the overtime payment has been rectified, or are most companies still managing to finagle illegal unpaid overtime hours?
Oh, absolutely. If you do land a fixed-term contract, then yeah - you've got the same rights, privileges and protections as a full-time employee, and that's exactly how it should be. It's the lengths that some supposedly-reputable organizations will go to in order to avoid these working conditions for their freelancers that pisses me off.
the terms of how and why you get fired/laid off and what they owe you is in the contract you sign.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
This is what says you can be fired at any time for any reason in states that follow that legislature (such as Texas). Texas (along with 12 other states) also expressly states that no implied contract exceptions will keep you from at will firing.
That's it, "at will" I got the name wrong, but the law is the same. Fire for any reason. This is an easy way for employers to get around discrimination too.
and it looks like from wikipedia that California isn't one, but Texas and Virginia are.
Hope those affected land a good gig soon...
Sorry for derailing a bit, but can anyone give some info on how this stuff is in Canada, compared to Europe and/or US?