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NWS: Scrotum grenade - First model :p crits ?

1
Hey guys, im new to the whole modelling scene :P im more of an animator by hobby. But i want to get good at game asset modelling, since most jobs require multiple tasks :p

87894904.jpg

Right, where do i go next ?


Oldest to newest:

Mace:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/958/mace.jpg

Well:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9942/wella.jpg

Cardboard box:
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9112/cardboarde.jpg

Replies

  • Mime
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    Mime polycounter lvl 14
    When i look at it i get the feeling i'm gonna burn my hand if i grab it.
    Handle is WAY to bright.
  • iWeReZ
    Lol, Its meant to look like the wood has been cut away, you know how its brighter inside ?

    Guess i failed :C
  • fmnoor
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    fmnoor polycounter lvl 17
    If it's your first model, why not focus on getting it to look good in the max viewport instead? That doesn't look like wood has been cut away, it's like a glow stick with a spikey ball attached to it.

    I'd darken the specular map on the wood ~_~

    You've also got this real pixelated look on the actual ball itself - how much UV space does it have?
  • iWeReZ
    Im a complete noob at everything, this was more of an experiment :P

    thanks for the tips.
  • badcop
    Is this supposed to have a hand painted look, or is it supposed to look like an actual mace?

    And tone down that gradient on the chain it is much too strong.
  • iWeReZ
    badcop wrote: »
    Is this supposed to have a hand painted look, or is it supposed to look like an actual mace?

    And tone down that gradient on the chain it is much too strong.

    I honestly dont know, really.

    I painted and photo sourced the diffuse.

    I dont even think the specular works XD

    and the normal was done with the nvidia plugin.

    The unwraps were all max default.

    and that gradient is heavyisnt it :P
  • Taylor Hood
    All in all its a good first try. Just keep going.
  • Celes
    spec is bright!
    Have you tried crazy bump?
    you can download 30 day trial :)
    from a diffuse map it can generate normal and spec. it's a good place to start.
  • Wilex
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    Wilex polycounter lvl 16
    Hey Dannny, you have all the parts to create a decent game asset and it’s a good first attempt. The model isn't bad but it’s nothing amazing your texture maps are really going to make it look game worthy so take some time on them.

    The first thing you should adjust is your UV maps make sure you have good resolution across all parts of the model. The ball of the mace specifically looks lower res compared to the rest of the model.

    Each one of your texture maps deserves some special attention and it looks like you've rushed through the specular and normal map which is a typical of new artists. Diffuse/Color maps are usually the easiest to understand what you see is what you get but specular and normal maps deserve just as much attention as your diffuse and it might take some study as well as trial and error before you get them right.

    Here are some tips to get you started. On your specuar map higher contrast on the metal parts will give you a more metal look and help achive some nice highlights. Try a 50% grey or darker on the handle to tone down the glowstick effect. The more i look at it it almoast seems like you plugged the specular map into the wrong shader input almost looks like an emissive or glow map unless the marmoset engine lighting is blowing it out and from the render it doesn't seem like your normal map is doing anything.

    Tips for your normal map would be don't just flatten your diffuse and run it through the Nvidia filter and just running it through crazy bump isn't a better solution either. It may look right at first glance but you'll notice that it creates bumps that shouldn’t exist in areas that don't make sense. You can run a single layer through the filter and combine layers in Photoshop to create a normal map that doesn't have these issues.


    I find that combining a normal map from a high res bake with details created using the filter to work out nicely.

    Crazy Bump is a cool tool but just putting your diffuse into it and expecting the normal map and spec map that it generates from it to be correct is a big misconception. The more you work with normal and spec maps the better you'll get and you'll see when crazy bump is useful but its by no means a create art button.

    Good luck hopefully this helps.
  • iWeReZ
    Wilex wrote: »
    Hey Dannny, you have all the parts to create a decent game asset and it’s a good first attempt. The model isn't bad but it’s nothing amazing your texture maps are really going to make it look game worthy so take some time on them.

    The first thing you should adjust is your UV maps make sure you have good resolution across all parts of the model. The ball of the mace specifically looks lower res compared to the rest of the model.

    Each one of your texture maps deserves some special attention and it looks like you've rushed through the specular and normal map which is a typical of new artists. Diffuse/Color maps are usually the easiest to understand what you see is what you get but specular and normal maps deserve just as much attention as your diffuse and it might take some study as well as trial and error before you get them right.

    Here are some tips to get you started. On your specuar map higher contrast on the metal parts will give you a more metal look and help achive some nice highlights. Try a 50% grey or darker on the handle to tone down the glowstick effect. The more i look at it it almoast seems like you plugged the specular map into the wrong shader input almost looks like an emissive or glow map unless the marmoset engine lighting is blowing it out and from the render it doesn't seem like your normal map is doing anything.

    Tips for your normal map would be don't just flatten your diffuse and run it through the Nvidia filter and just running it through crazy bump isn't a better solution either. It may look right at first glance but you'll notice that it creates bumps that shouldn’t exist in areas that don't make sense. You can run a single layer through the filter and combine layers in Photoshop to create a normal map that doesn't have these issues.


    I find that combining a normal map from a high res bake with details created using the filter to work out nicely.

    Crazy Bump is a cool tool but just putting your diffuse into it and expecting the normal map and spec map that it generates from it to be correct is a big misconception. The more you work with normal and spec maps the better you'll get and you'll see when crazy bump is useful but its by no means a create art button.

    Good luck hopefully this helps.

    Haha you got everything down to a tee :P thanks for the intense crit.

    Now i know kind of how stuff works a bit better, my specular map has too much white on the handle, and not enough on the metal.

    And for my normal maps i usually just run a modified specular map through it :P

    As for the high res bake thingy, Ive been looking at that, but theres no helpfull guides (That i can find) That help me successfully get hig res normals (From ZBrush for example) to a normal map.

    Thanks for the comment and heres another thing i did, But before i red the comments :P so i didnt take the spec and normal into consideration.

    And the roof is RIDICULOUSLY poorly made, the main idea was i was going to make itmodular, but didnt comprehend the ridiculous amount of cyclinders :P i shouldve just done a cone.

    http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9942/wella.jpg

    EDIT:

    Instead of double posting, ill just slip this in here :)
    *NEW* Cardboard box:
    http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9112/cardboarde.jpg
  • Bruno Afonseca
    The well looks like it'd collapse if a 5-year old kicked it. And the wood goes in the stone? weird!

    The spikes on the mace don't blend too well with the ball. Too low poly, which is weird since the chain is more detailed. Run an ambient occlusion which will help blend the spikes into the ball.

    Cardboard box is alright, but IMO you should use more tris and split it up, reuse parts of the texture etc, to get the most out of the 512 map you have. The difference between a 4 quad and a 40 quad box won't make a difference in any modern engine.
  • Zwebbie
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    Zwebbie polycounter lvl 18
    That box is a good example of why your normal mapping workflow is wrong. Why on earth would printed text have depth?
  • Taylor Hood
    Zwebbie speaks teh truth.
  • iWeReZ
    As much as i appreciate you guys constantly saying im doing stuff wrong.

    Anyone got any actual help ?
  • bgoodsell
    I don't know how baking works in max, but i can write out a tutorial for how to do it in maya if you'd like.
  • Papa_Austin
  • Wilex
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    Wilex polycounter lvl 16
    Here's some tutorials that should help i dont have a lot of time to write this so im just going to post a few links. Hopefully they give you some ideas on how to correct your mistakes if not i'll try to make another post later.

    Normal Map tutorial covers Baking in Max and combines the Nvidia Filter
    http://www.game-artist.net/forums/spotlight-articles/43-tutorial-introduction-normal-mapping.html

    More info on normal maps and how they work.
    http://www.svartberg.com/tutorials/article_normalmaps/normalmaps.html

    The Ultimate Be-all end all Normal Mapping thread lots to dig through but should answer some questions.
    http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=48305

    Good Luck, Don't get discouraged there's a lot to learn.
  • iWeReZ
    Right, since ive probably understood alot of this wrong, could you guys guide me through a process ?
    Ive got this :
    87894904.jpg

    Where would i be aiming to go next ?
  • d00kie
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    d00kie polycounter lvl 17
    im loling really hard right now. im seriously about to cry. I have no idea what's going on but I see a scrote nade and i can taste my tears.
  • moose
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    moose polycount sponsor
    hahahaha, we've been missin some scrotenade 'round here.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    ROFL LMAO, So do you need help creating a normal map for the nut 'nades? The hair probably could be done with a few planes and an alpha map.
  • achmedthesnake
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    achmedthesnake polycounter lvl 17
    yeah... is anyone else seeing a scrotum-grenade here? GAAAAAA! needz moar pubez -

    to do that you could use sum opacity planes rather than using one plane per hair....
  • iWeReZ
    Haha thats what it is :D

    and i want to know, how do i make this grenade, look like a super sexy game asset ?
  • ErichWK
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    ErichWK polycounter lvl 12
    I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who saw scrotum grenade.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    you got the low poly, now do a high poly model of it.

    But like I said before, leave out the hair till the end and just alpha plane it in.
  • imb3nt
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    imb3nt polycounter lvl 14
    Is that a scrote-grenade...?
  • ENODMI
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    ENODMI polycounter lvl 14
    Wow, this thread really confused me! Im reading comments that say one thing...and all I see is a nutgrenade, ha!
  • achillesian
    cough please

    *explosion*
  • praxedes
    "FIRE IN YER HOLE!

    Ahem- now you have a decent low poly mesh, your workflow for the high poly could be-

    if using this mesh, eliminate any ngons or triangles; all quads in the mesh to make it friendly for subdividing. Subdiv it (or at least do a sub d preview if your app can) and add in edgeloops to define sharp edges. A loop placed on either side of an edge will sharpen it up. Experiment to see what I mean.

    Then add in the detail you want either in your current app or in ZB or mudbox. If this is indeed a scrotum, then the organic wrinkles and veiny bits would best be handled in a sculpting app like the above, whilst any mechanical doodads for the handle and pin can be created in your modeling app. Some exporting betwixt the two will be needed to end up with one high poly model.

    Use a programme (Xnormal is my choice) to then bake normal maps and an ao map for the high to the low (I assume you have UV unwrapped the low). You may find that baking individual parts of the grenade reduce tracing errors in the maps. In which case, combine the maps together in something like photoshop, and then use the AO as a guide to generate a diffuse and spec texture by hand and with photo manipulation.

    I hope that makes sense and is the kind of info you are seeking- I get the feeling that it is. I am sure more able modelers than I can expand on or rectify any errors in my explanation.

    Good luck!

    ~P~
  • zenarion
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    zenarion polycounter lvl 17
    Sometimes, pure awesome spills into the world.
    This is such an occasion.
  • iWeReZ
    praxedes wrote: »
    "FIRE IN YER HOLE!

    Ahem- now you have a decent low poly mesh, your workflow for the high poly could be-

    if using this mesh, eliminate any ngons or triangles; all quads in the mesh to make it friendly for subdividing. Subdiv it (or at least do a sub d preview if your app can) and add in edgeloops to define sharp edges. A loop placed on either side of an edge will sharpen it up. Experiment to see what I mean.

    DONE

    Then add in the detail you want either in your current app or in ZB or mudbox. If this is indeed a scrotum, then the organic wrinkles and veiny bits would best be handled in a sculpting app like the above, whilst any mechanical doodads for the handle and pin can be created in your modeling app. Some exporting betwixt the two will be needed to end up with one high poly model.

    Will start doing this now :)


    Use a programme (Xnormal is my choice) to then bake normal maps and an ao map for the high to the low (I assume you have UV unwrapped the low). You may find that baking individual parts of the grenade reduce tracing errors in the maps. In which case, combine the maps together in something like photoshop, and then use the AO as a guide to generate a diffuse and spec texture by hand and with photo manipulation.

    Baking, i never understand it, Like say i have my high poly mesh, And my unwrapped low, if i bake the high poly in 3DS render to texture (What the tutorials say) Then it renders it, but the UVs of the bak are completely different to my UVWs. Help ?
    I hope that makes sense and is the kind of info you are seeking- I get the feeling that it is. I am sure more able modelers than I can expand on or rectify any errors in my explanation.

    Good luck!

    ~P~

    Message is too short >_>
  • SnarG
    Ahhh man, I just laughed myself to tears reading some of the comments you guys left. I totally wasn't expecting any of that when I opened a thread called 'Mace'.
  • iWeReZ
    Yeah i changed the title in advanced edit, but it didnt change :C
  • iWeReZ
    sack.jpgsack.jpg
    sack2.jpg
    sack2.jpg

    High poly scrot :)

    Now what do i do :P ?
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    do the high poly of the rest of the 'nade
  • Pedro Amorim
    why hasnt one of the balls droped yet?
  • TheZeke
    .... wow dude ... just wow
  • woogity
    um one side should be lower....yea :poly138::D!
  • Orgoth02
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    Orgoth02 polycounter lvl 9
    Why are you choosing this as your first game model?
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 18
    so this is a gre-nad..
  • killingpeople
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    killingpeople polycounter lvl 18
    Well, that's a new one.
  • beartraps
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    beartraps polycounter lvl 8
    so i take it that tons of jizz explodes out of this scrotum grenade?

    if so, than man... thats one fucking brutal weapon
  • Shiv
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    Shiv polycounter lvl 15
    And as it explodes it increases in size like a balloon and lets out a sigh.

    wow man, awesome model!! just awesome!
    I hope you manage to get it into something like source, replace the frag with that bad boy :P
  • il Duce Primo
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    il Duce Primo polycounter lvl 15
    Shouldn't one side be a tad bigger? :\
  • Shogun3d
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    Shogun3d polycounter lvl 12
    Brought it into zbrush...lawl
  • Ferg
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    Ferg polycounter lvl 17
    ron_burgundy_scent.jpg

    you stay classy polycount
  • skylebones
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    skylebones polycounter lvl 10
    I don't want to know where you got your reference.
  • Taylor Hood
    Rofl, holy crap. This thread is win sauce.
    But seriously, I think the zbrush sculpt could be more...er... controlled and fine detailed.. ;P
    I was gonna reccomend you look at some refrence..but yeah.. XDDD
  • Rokkx
    Someone wont ever be forgotten on these boards lol
  • System
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    System admin
    Awesome, need some more sub div in zbrush and more/deeper wrinkles!
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