NWS: Scrotum grenade - First model :p crits ?

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

Hey guys, im new to the whole modelling scene :P im more of an animator by hobby. But i want to get good at game asset modelling, since most jobs require multiple tasks

Right, where do i go next ?

Oldest to newest:

Mace:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/958/mace.jpg

Well:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9942/wella.jpg

Cardboard box:
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9112/cardboarde.jpg

Mime · Sep 2009

When i look at it i get the feeling i'm gonna burn my hand if i grab it.
Handle is WAY to bright.

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

Lol, Its meant to look like the wood has been cut away, you know how its brighter inside ?

Guess i failed :C

fmnoor · Sep 2009

If it's your first model, why not focus on getting it to look good in the max viewport instead? That doesn't look like wood has been cut away, it's like a glow stick with a spikey ball attached to it.

I'd darken the specular map on the wood ~_~

You've also got this real pixelated look on the actual ball itself - how much UV space does it have?

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

Im a complete noob at everything, this was more of an experiment :P

thanks for the tips.

badcop · Sep 2009

Is this supposed to have a hand painted look, or is it supposed to look like an actual mace?

And tone down that gradient on the chain it is much too strong.

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

badcop wrote: »

Is this supposed to have a hand painted look, or is it supposed to look like an actual mace?

And tone down that gradient on the chain it is much too strong.

I honestly dont know, really.

I painted and photo sourced the diffuse.

I dont even think the specular works XD

and the normal was done with the nvidia plugin.

The unwraps were all max default.

and that gradient is heavyisnt it :P

Taylor Hood · Sep 2009

All in all its a good first try. Just keep going.

Celes · Sep 2009

spec is bright!
Have you tried crazy bump?
you can download 30 day trial

from a diffuse map it can generate normal and spec. it's a good place to start.

Wilex · Sep 2009

Hey Dannny, you have all the parts to create a decent game asset and it’s a good first attempt. The model isn't bad but it’s nothing amazing your texture maps are really going to make it look game worthy so take some time on them.

The first thing you should adjust is your UV maps make sure you have good resolution across all parts of the model. The ball of the mace specifically looks lower res compared to the rest of the model.

Each one of your texture maps deserves some special attention and it looks like you've rushed through the specular and normal map which is a typical of new artists. Diffuse/Color maps are usually the easiest to understand what you see is what you get but specular and normal maps deserve just as much attention as your diffuse and it might take some study as well as trial and error before you get them right.

Here are some tips to get you started. On your specuar map higher contrast on the metal parts will give you a more metal look and help achive some nice highlights. Try a 50% grey or darker on the handle to tone down the glowstick effect. The more i look at it it almoast seems like you plugged the specular map into the wrong shader input almost looks like an emissive or glow map unless the marmoset engine lighting is blowing it out and from the render it doesn't seem like your normal map is doing anything.

Tips for your normal map would be don't just flatten your diffuse and run it through the Nvidia filter and just running it through crazy bump isn't a better solution either. It may look right at first glance but you'll notice that it creates bumps that shouldn’t exist in areas that don't make sense. You can run a single layer through the filter and combine layers in Photoshop to create a normal map that doesn't have these issues.

I find that combining a normal map from a high res bake with details created using the filter to work out nicely.

Crazy Bump is a cool tool but just putting your diffuse into it and expecting the normal map and spec map that it generates from it to be correct is a big misconception. The more you work with normal and spec maps the better you'll get and you'll see when crazy bump is useful but its by no means a create art button.

Good luck hopefully this helps.

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

Wilex wrote: »

Hey Dannny, you have all the parts to create a decent game asset and its a good first attempt. The model isn't bad but its nothing amazing your texture maps are really going to make it look game worthy so take some time on them.

The first thing you should adjust is your UV maps make sure you have good resolution across all parts of the model. The ball of the mace specifically looks lower res compared to the rest of the model.

Each one of your texture maps deserves some special attention and it looks like you've rushed through the specular and normal map which is a typical of new artists. Diffuse/Color maps are usually the easiest to understand what you see is what you get but specular and normal maps deserve just as much attention as your diffuse and it might take some study as well as trial and error before you get them right.

Here are some tips to get you started. On your specuar map higher contrast on the metal parts will give you a more metal look and help achive some nice highlights. Try a 50% grey or darker on the handle to tone down the glowstick effect. The more i look at it it almoast seems like you plugged the specular map into the wrong shader input almost looks like an emissive or glow map unless the marmoset engine lighting is blowing it out and from the render it doesn't seem like your normal map is doing anything.

Tips for your normal map would be don't just flatten your diffuse and run it through the Nvidia filter and just running it through crazy bump isn't a better solution either. It may look right at first glance but you'll notice that it creates bumps that shouldnt exist in areas that don't make sense. You can run a single layer through the filter and combine layers in Photoshop to create a normal map that doesn't have these issues.

I find that combining a normal map from a high res bake with details created using the filter to work out nicely.

Crazy Bump is a cool tool but just putting your diffuse into it and expecting the normal map and spec map that it generates from it to be correct is a big misconception. The more you work with normal and spec maps the better you'll get and you'll see when crazy bump is useful but its by no means a create art button.

Good luck hopefully this helps.

Haha you got everything down to a tee :P thanks for the intense crit.

Now i know kind of how stuff works a bit better, my specular map has too much white on the handle, and not enough on the metal.

And for my normal maps i usually just run a modified specular map through it :P

As for the high res bake thingy, Ive been looking at that, but theres no helpfull guides (That i can find) That help me successfully get hig res normals (From ZBrush for example) to a normal map.

Thanks for the comment and heres another thing i did, But before i red the comments :P so i didnt take the spec and normal into consideration.

And the roof is RIDICULOUSLY poorly made, the main idea was i was going to make itmodular, but didnt comprehend the ridiculous amount of cyclinders :P i shouldve just done a cone.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9942/wella.jpg

EDIT:

Instead of double posting, ill just slip this in here

*NEW* Cardboard box:
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9112/cardboarde.jpg

Bruno Afonseca · Sep 2009

The well looks like it'd collapse if a 5-year old kicked it. And the wood goes in the stone? weird!

The spikes on the mace don't blend too well with the ball. Too low poly, which is weird since the chain is more detailed. Run an ambient occlusion which will help blend the spikes into the ball.

Cardboard box is alright, but IMO you should use more tris and split it up, reuse parts of the texture etc, to get the most out of the 512 map you have. The difference between a 4 quad and a 40 quad box won't make a difference in any modern engine.

Zwebbie · Sep 2009

That box is a good example of why your normal mapping workflow is wrong. Why on earth would printed text have depth?

Taylor Hood · Sep 2009

Zwebbie speaks teh truth.

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

As much as i appreciate you guys constantly saying im doing stuff wrong.

Anyone got any actual help ?

bgoodsell · Sep 2009

I don't know how baking works in max, but i can write out a tutorial for how to do it in maya if you'd like.

Papa_Austin · Sep 2009

here this should help a bit

http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/max/nex-gen-modeling/modeling1.html

Wilex · Sep 2009

Here's some tutorials that should help i dont have a lot of time to write this so im just going to post a few links. Hopefully they give you some ideas on how to correct your mistakes if not i'll try to make another post later.

Normal Map tutorial covers Baking in Max and combines the Nvidia Filter
http://www.game-artist.net/forums/spotlight-articles/43-tutorial-introduction-normal-mapping.html

More info on normal maps and how they work.
http://www.svartberg.com/tutorials/article_normalmaps/normalmaps.html

The Ultimate Be-all end all Normal Mapping thread lots to dig through but should answer some questions.
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=48305

Good Luck, Don't get discouraged there's a lot to learn.

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

Right, since ive probably understood alot of this wrong, could you guys guide me through a process ?
Ive got this :

Where would i be aiming to go next ?

d00kie · Sep 2009

im loling really hard right now. im seriously about to cry. I have no idea what's going on but I see a scrote nade and i can taste my tears.

moose · Sep 2009

hahahaha, we've been missin some scrotenade 'round here.

ZacD · Sep 2009

ROFL LMAO, So do you need help creating a normal map for the nut 'nades? The hair probably could be done with a few planes and an alpha map.

achmedthesnake · Sep 2009

yeah... is anyone else seeing a scrotum-grenade here? GAAAAAA! needz moar pubez -

to do that you could use sum opacity planes rather than using one plane per hair....

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

Haha thats what it is

and i want to know, how do i make this grenade, look like a super sexy game asset ?

ErichWK · Sep 2009

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who saw scrotum grenade.

ZacD · Sep 2009

you got the low poly, now do a high poly model of it.

But like I said before, leave out the hair till the end and just alpha plane it in.

imb3nt · Sep 2009

Is that a scrote-grenade...?

ENODMI · Sep 2009

Wow, this thread really confused me! Im reading comments that say one thing...and all I see is a nutgrenade, ha!

achillesian · Sep 2009

cough please

*explosion*

praxedes · Sep 2009

"FIRE IN YER HOLE!

Ahem- now you have a decent low poly mesh, your workflow for the high poly could be-

if using this mesh, eliminate any ngons or triangles; all quads in the mesh to make it friendly for subdividing. Subdiv it (or at least do a sub d preview if your app can) and add in edgeloops to define sharp edges. A loop placed on either side of an edge will sharpen it up. Experiment to see what I mean.

Then add in the detail you want either in your current app or in ZB or mudbox. If this is indeed a scrotum, then the organic wrinkles and veiny bits would best be handled in a sculpting app like the above, whilst any mechanical doodads for the handle and pin can be created in your modeling app. Some exporting betwixt the two will be needed to end up with one high poly model.

Use a programme (Xnormal is my choice) to then bake normal maps and an ao map for the high to the low (I assume you have UV unwrapped the low). You may find that baking individual parts of the grenade reduce tracing errors in the maps. In which case, combine the maps together in something like photoshop, and then use the AO as a guide to generate a diffuse and spec texture by hand and with photo manipulation.

I hope that makes sense and is the kind of info you are seeking- I get the feeling that it is. I am sure more able modelers than I can expand on or rectify any errors in my explanation.

Good luck!

~P~

zenarion · Sep 2009

Sometimes, pure awesome spills into the world.
This is such an occasion.

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

praxedes wrote: »

"FIRE IN YER HOLE!

Ahem- now you have a decent low poly mesh, your workflow for the high poly could be-

if using this mesh, eliminate any ngons or triangles; all quads in the mesh to make it friendly for subdividing. Subdiv it (or at least do a sub d preview if your app can) and add in edgeloops to define sharp edges. A loop placed on either side of an edge will sharpen it up. Experiment to see what I mean.

DONE

Then add in the detail you want either in your current app or in ZB or mudbox. If this is indeed a scrotum, then the organic wrinkles and veiny bits would best be handled in a sculpting app like the above, whilst any mechanical doodads for the handle and pin can be created in your modeling app. Some exporting betwixt the two will be needed to end up with one high poly model.

Will start doing this now

Use a programme (Xnormal is my choice) to then bake normal maps and an ao map for the high to the low (I assume you have UV unwrapped the low). You may find that baking individual parts of the grenade reduce tracing errors in the maps. In which case, combine the maps together in something like photoshop, and then use the AO as a guide to generate a diffuse and spec texture by hand and with photo manipulation.

Baking, i never understand it, Like say i have my high poly mesh, And my unwrapped low, if i bake the high poly in 3DS render to texture (What the tutorials say) Then it renders it, but the UVs of the bak are completely different to my UVWs. Help ?
I hope that makes sense and is the kind of info you are seeking- I get the feeling that it is. I am sure more able modelers than I can expand on or rectify any errors in my explanation.

Good luck!

~P~

Message is too short >_>

SnarG · Sep 2009

Ahhh man, I just laughed myself to tears reading some of the comments you guys left. I totally wasn't expecting any of that when I opened a thread called 'Mace'.

iWeReZ · Sep 2009

Yeah i changed the title in advanced edit, but it didnt change :C

iWeReZ · Oct 2009

High poly scrot

Now what do i do :P ?

ZacD · Oct 2009

do the high poly of the rest of the 'nade

Pedro Amorim · Oct 2009

why hasnt one of the balls droped yet?

TheZeke · Oct 2009

.... wow dude ... just wow

woogity · Oct 2009

um one side should be lower....yea :poly138::D!

Orgoth02 · Oct 2009

Why are you choosing this as your first game model?

Jeremy Lindstrom · Oct 2009

so this is a gre-nad..

killingpeople · Oct 2009

Well, that's a new one.

beartraps · Oct 2009

so i take it that tons of jizz explodes out of this scrotum grenade?

if so, than man... thats one fucking brutal weapon

Shiv · Oct 2009

And as it explodes it increases in size like a balloon and lets out a sigh.

wow man, awesome model!! just awesome!
I hope you manage to get it into something like source, replace the frag with that bad boy :P

il Duce Primo · Oct 2009

Shouldn't one side be a tad bigger? $:\$

Shogun3d · Oct 2009

Brought it into zbrush...lawl

Ferg · Oct 2009

you stay classy polycount

skylebones · Oct 2009

I don't want to know where you got your reference.

Taylor Hood · Oct 2009

Rofl, holy crap. This thread is win sauce.
But seriously, I think the zbrush sculpt could be more...er... controlled and fine detailed.. ;P
I was gonna reccomend you look at some refrence..but yeah.. XDDD

Rokkx · Oct 2009

Someone wont ever be forgotten on these boards lol

System · Oct 2009

Awesome, need some more sub div in zbrush and more/deeper wrinkles!

NWS: Scrotum grenade - First model :p crits ?

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