Decided to do a roof tile texture from scratch in Zbrush cos its one of the main things that jumps out in the scene and the photo texture didn't look great.
I know it has an obvious seam but what dya's think?
Without being a geology expert I think that most of the mountains are layered and when they are not the rocks still look stacked one onto another.
I'm not saying this is the best tutorial ever. In fact it is pretty basic but the result is pretty convincing (of course it is high-res) and imo looks cool. [Here]
I think that there is a major problem with the approach you are using to texture your house models.
If I were you, I would create a texture atlas and use tilable textures.
Right now you are using the none-overlapping UV/render-to-texture approach which really isn't suitable for making such large structures.
I would suggest to check out this document which is I think is exactly what you are looking for. http://wiki.polycount.com/ModularMountAndBlade?highlight=%28\bCategoryEnvironmentTexturing\b%29
Other then that, I think that your normal maps wont render properly if the green channel on them is set to +Y.
UDK reads normal maps in the following way : +X, -Y, +Z. (stands for R, G, B channels)
Your normal maps are set with the following settings : +X, +Y, +Z.
You can easily fix the problem by inverting the green channel of your normal maps in photoshop or by checking the option which inverts the green channel when importing your normal map in UDK.
Fixing the normal map issue should make your assets render properly in the engine and remove the artifacts.
You can easily know if your green channel is set to +Y or -Y by just looking at from where the "green light" is coming from.
Think of it as a light spot which project green color on to your texture or model.
If the green is coming from the top then your Green channel is set to +Y
If the green is coming from the bottom, then your green channel is set to -Y.
I found the bricks on the house you just posted a bit big, but you can easily fix that if you decide to go with tileable textures ^^ (And thanks for the kind word )
Thanks so much guys! Sorry I haven't posted anything these past two days, been moving home from University to London and its been a bit hectic. Came home to a new kitten though
@choco Thank you so much That is so helpful, I just have one question. When I make the texture atlas, do I just move the different uv's onto the texture, or do I assign the material to the UV mapped face? Sorry if this sounds stupid! I've been googling stuff about it for the past hour and can't seem to get an answer. Thanks so much for recommending this though, I'm definately going to do it
@Strkl Hey no problem you're really talented Yup I'm going to make a texture atlas!
@Oranghe Yay Jemma! Thanks so much, glad you like it. Just working away. I've been trying to catch you on MSN!
@SirCalalot Thank you I'm so grateful for you posting here all the time!
Choco-thanks for the informative link! I completely agree with your point about the flatness of the roof. Adding the appropriate topology will really help this thing pop, ladyknowles!
Ok, so I had a few days of sorting out been at home and I've been working on that texture atlas. It IS such a better way of doing things! I've mostly been experimenting so far. I've textured the big building on the right using the texture atlas, and both arches using the texture atlas. I textured the stairs separately as I believe these would look better like this.
Here are the stairs!
Here are some screenshots, with the texture atlas so far. It is 2048 x 2048 but I think it could be 1024 x 1024
The good thing about an texture atlas is that it reduces the drawcalls on the GPU. The hassle of working with a texture atlas without the engine "doing the work" is not really worth it. An employer will see that you can work with assets that's fucking annoying to handle, nothing more. I worked with an engine that used atlas textures, but the thing was that the only thing I as an artist needed to do was to split my model and UV (with a script) an it compiled all the textures into one. You still need great tiling textures.
Especially for an environment like this. You also got some very clear tiling in your roof tile texture. You'r really defeating the purpose of having a texture atlas if you just copy paste one texture 5,5 times.
For that atlas you've showed I see 4*512 well tiled textures and one 1024^ or 512*1024 for the windows and the details. Maybe an 256*512 for the wooden planks when i think about it.
The texture atlas on the stone steps model is not helping at all. The texture resolution is fairly low. You have different texel density all over. The model it self have very unmotivated tesselation, mostly on the flat surfaces. Conclusion (or well, what I would have done for something like that), make use of vertex colors on the model. Use decals, for stuff like the moss on the bottom.
If I where you I would I'm for a 512^ for that staircase (that tiles), make use of vertex colors and create 3-4 dirt decals to use on your houses, the ground and everything else that could have been dirtied down by humans.
You can also just copy-paste a layer directly into a mask, without the need for selecting color range. Start with doing a select all on your AO layer and copy it, then hide that layer and create a new empty mask on the diff blend. If you hold ALT and click the mask icon, you'll enter the mask itself and can paste right into it. I use this to paste photo source stuff for masks pretty often. You can always go back into the mask with ALT and then adjust levels to get a change in the values too.
ctrl + click on one of the rgb channels and with that selection adding a mask will do the same.
sorry for highjacking your thread ladyknowles ^^ you probably have all the help you need already keep the updates coming.
A good tip for Unwrapping UVs in Maya is to select your object, then apply an Auto UV Unwrap.
This should keep your texel density pretty uniform throughout.
Then go through selecting edges and move/stitching them together in a way that makes sense.
(For instance, selecting the edges of the steps one at a time and stitching each piece in sequence. That way, you can make your steps in one long UV strip and the walls/sides of the stairs in a separate UV island.)
I even have my own hotkeys set up in Maya for Auto Unwrap UVs and Stitch UVs so I can do it all in the perspective viewport
Edit: If that doesn't make much sense, then I can do a short video next week sometime.
@sltrOlsson I've taken what you've said into account about the texture atlas and changed it a bit I've also added some decals to the scene, they're hard to see in these pics though, and I'm going to add more. Thanks for all the help!
@divi No problem! You can never have too much help!
@SirCalalot That is pretty much the method I use now Thanks for the advice I am so grateful of you posting in my thread so much
So, after all of this faff, I've decided I am going to head away from the original concept. It's really holding me back in terms of creativity, and I believe I could make the scene a lot better using some initiative.
I made a new main building:
I've changed the sky from day to night, downed the fog and changed the lighting:
So I've reworked the scene a bit more and feel a lot better about it now. I think its good to admit to myself it wasn't working before and move on to something better!
Remember in a scene like this you'll have to rely heavily on your own lighting skills. The village will be in shadow all the time because of the cliffs so it's pretty much up to you.
If you still want to keep the cliffs I'd suggest creating a bigger opening at the end of the village there after the bridge, maybe position the sun around that area and have trees growing out of the cliffs. It'll also help giving a little bit more depth to the overall scene.
First off, the concpet is a morning/ late afternoon scene, and it has two primary lightsources: the warm orange sunlight coming from the left of the frame, and the ambient grey/steel lighting from the sky/clouds. Your scene is lit completely differently. It seems midterm like a night time scene, rather than a sunrise/sunset scene.
Next up is the texture consistency. You have a lot of contrasting saturations as well as luminosities. In the concept only has three surface colours: green, grey and brown. The green acts as the cool canvas whereas the grey acts as the detail, and the brown acts as the warm contrast in remote absence of direct sunlight within the frame. Try to simulate the concept more. Keep working, and this could be a real winner.
First off, the concpet is a morning/ late afternoon scene, and it has two primary lightsources: the warm orange sunlight coming from the left of the frame, and the ambient grey/steel lighting from the sky/clouds. Your scene is lit completely differently. It seems midterm like a night time scene, rather than a sunrise/sunset scene.
I'm not seeing this at all. This is how I see it. The mountains are high enough to block most of the direct rays but gaps between them is letting some sun in.
Thanks for the feedback guys! I've decided to head away from the concept and have decided to make the scene at night. I think this is better because the lighting in the scene is kind of non-descript, and if you talented people are having a debate over it, it shows it is a hard set up!
I'll post some images later tonight, my hard drive is at home!
I know I've said this before, but it's awesome that you update frequently.
Those boats look nice! Are you planning on having the scene move with some sort of ambient animation (such as foliage in the wind and the boats bobbing on the water)?
If not, I think it would work well to have some grungy/scratchy decals on the boats to make them look unique, rather than clones of each other.
If they are to be dynamic, then maybe a few different material instances with different main or blend textures could be applied to them.
Something else that I've noticed is that the UDK landscape doesn't really have enough resolution for sharp angles such as the river banks - the water's edge looks quite jagged.
To get around this problem, you could keep the scene as it is, but create your own Static Mesh river bank with the resolution and detail that you desire before blending it with the landscape in UDK.
Edit: You can export a landscape object as an .obj file to help you get the dimensions that you need in Maya.
I'll hold off any lighting critiques until you've come further with the scene - I hope that all helps!
Thanks so much for the response again SirCatalot! Lots of good points
I've made some grass and I'm going to add a wind actor as soon as I get to that part of the tutorial. I agree with you about the river edge but I'll leave it for now. I'll definately come back to it.
The grass is looking very nice - the thickness of it really suits your scene
Although the low texture resolution of the floor in contrast is making it stick out too much as not being part of the ground.
Maybe adding a Detail Texture to the ground as well as some smaller clumps of grass amongst your meshes would help to blend the two together with a better transition?
To get the grass to blend even smoother with the ground, you could try a method described by @choco in his Portfolio Thread which essentially makes the grass pick up the colour of the terrain beneath it.
Thanks, making the grass pick up the terrain colour works only if your terrain has a basic colour map which is overlayed on top of tiled detail textures (erosion flow+AO+cavity+colour).
I use that colour map on the grass blades and make them blend with the terrain automatically.
Here is how its setup in the material editor :
The terrain colour map :
Your terrain needs to be at the origin of the Grid (location 0,0,0) to project the texture properly.
You also need the terrain size (used in the material) , you can get it by using the ruler (middle mouse clic + drag) or by doing a simple calculation depending on the size of your height map : for a heightmap of 1009x1009 : 1009 - 1 x 128 = 129024. 129024 is the number that should be used in the material for such a terrain for example.
Thanks SirCatalot! I agree with everything you said and have changed a lot of things again, moving everything into one of the default udk scenes for now. I'm going to follow all of Choco's tutorials and implement the result in my scene
I finished the 3dmotive tut! Learnt so much and can use 3dsmax for simple things now (I had only used Maya before! )
Haha no, not scared off! Just didn't see my boyfriend for like 3 weeks and he was down in London so I was only doing like an hours work a day, instead of like 8! Got a great art book though, the art from spirited away!
Finished the trees, added the wind, started making new terrain.
Looking very good, Lady Knowles, showing tons of progress and perseverance. I take it you have plans for a grassy ground as seen in previous renders. The buildings are charming but would benefit from some more crookedness to your buildings, especially beams and rooftops as this adds character and prevents a stiff and uniform look.
I don't think you can ever update too much. Those three words never belong together.
Love watching this! It's a really useful thread, and I can see why you chose the subject matter. There's something really nice about working on a peaceful, idyllic scene.
I haven't had an ultra productive day today, since I got a new PC and have been installing things all day. The internets really bad here so its taking like 8 hours to download Maya from the Autodesk site!
@SuperFranky Thanks super Franky, that's super Nice to hear
Ok so I've had a right time importing this terrain, since my laptop practically melts just opening UDK, and I haven't got the DVI to DVI cable to use my new PC So this has taken an age.
I think I'm going to redo the buildings again, to something more like this:
So I started making a boat for my scene I apologise for how much this has changed if you're just looking at this thread! I never have this freedom at university so I'm just going with the flow!
ah you change your concept, I hope its not because of me wanting to do that concept as well.
In any case, do you have reference for your boat at all? The boat doesn't looked balance at the moment. seems the front would dip into the water because all the weight is there. but then again I don't know a bunch about boats.
watch the terrace operation. I see some clipping going on in at the bottom of your terrain.
Yep. I would add an Erosion filter (there is a preset in there that is suppsed to be used with terraces) and mask it by height, so that I affects only the bottom area of the terrain.
Replies
@jimmypopali Thanks so much for the compliment
Another small update! Mayas been playing up on me so bad these past few days, making my progress even slower ¬.¬
I know it has an obvious seam but what dya's think?
[IMG][/img]
Maybe you should remove that tiny line of moss (Or is that a sort of crack ?) It really stands out
I'm not saying this is the best tutorial ever. In fact it is pretty basic but the result is pretty convincing (of course it is high-res) and imo looks cool.
[Here]
@Low Thanks for the advice
Textured the little house today!
If I were you, I would create a texture atlas and use tilable textures.
Right now you are using the none-overlapping UV/render-to-texture approach which really isn't suitable for making such large structures.
I would suggest to check out this document which is I think is exactly what you are looking for.
http://wiki.polycount.com/ModularMountAndBlade?highlight=%28\bCategoryEnvironmentTexturing\b%29
Other then that, I think that your normal maps wont render properly if the green channel on them is set to +Y.
UDK reads normal maps in the following way : +X, -Y, +Z. (stands for R, G, B channels)
Your normal maps are set with the following settings : +X, +Y, +Z.
You can easily fix the problem by inverting the green channel of your normal maps in photoshop or by checking the option which inverts the green channel when importing your normal map in UDK.
Fixing the normal map issue should make your assets render properly in the engine and remove the artifacts.
You can easily know if your green channel is set to +Y or -Y by just looking at from where the "green light" is coming from.
Think of it as a light spot which project green color on to your texture or model.
If the green is coming from the top then your Green channel is set to +Y
If the green is coming from the bottom, then your green channel is set to -Y.
Hope it helps
I found the bricks on the house you just posted a bit big, but you can easily fix that if you decide to go with tileable textures ^^ (And thanks for the kind word
Nice to see you work away on this Emma great stuff
The colours are looking good
[/pointlesspost]
@choco Thank you so much
@Strkl Hey no problem you're really talented
@Oranghe Yay Jemma!
@SirCalalot Thank you I'm so grateful for you posting here all the time!
Here are the stairs!
Here are some screenshots, with the texture atlas so far. It is 2048 x 2048 but I think it could be 1024 x 1024
Especially for an environment like this. You also got some very clear tiling in your roof tile texture. You'r really defeating the purpose of having a texture atlas if you just copy paste one texture 5,5 times.
For that atlas you've showed I see 4*512 well tiled textures and one 1024^ or 512*1024 for the windows and the details. Maybe an 256*512 for the wooden planks when i think about it.
The texture atlas on the stone steps model is not helping at all. The texture resolution is fairly low. You have different texel density all over. The model it self have very unmotivated tesselation, mostly on the flat surfaces. Conclusion (or well, what I would have done for something like that), make use of vertex colors on the model. Use decals, for stuff like the moss on the bottom.
If I where you I would I'm for a 512^ for that staircase (that tiles), make use of vertex colors and create 3-4 dirt decals to use on your houses, the ground and everything else that could have been dirtied down by humans.
ctrl + click on one of the rgb channels and with that selection adding a mask will do the same.
sorry for highjacking your thread ladyknowles ^^ you probably have all the help you need already
This should keep your texel density pretty uniform throughout.
Then go through selecting edges and move/stitching them together in a way that makes sense.
(For instance, selecting the edges of the steps one at a time and stitching each piece in sequence. That way, you can make your steps in one long UV strip and the walls/sides of the stairs in a separate UV island.)
I even have my own hotkeys set up in Maya for Auto Unwrap UVs and Stitch UVs so I can do it all in the perspective viewport
Edit: If that doesn't make much sense, then I can do a short video next week sometime.
@sltrOlsson I've taken what you've said into account about the texture atlas and changed it a bit
@divi No problem! You can never have too much help!
@SirCalalot That is pretty much the method I use now
So, after all of this faff, I've decided I am going to head away from the original concept. It's really holding me back in terms of creativity, and I believe I could make the scene a lot better using some initiative.
I made a new main building:
I've changed the sky from day to night, downed the fog and changed the lighting:
If you still want to keep the cliffs I'd suggest creating a bigger opening at the end of the village there after the bridge, maybe position the sun around that area and have trees growing out of the cliffs. It'll also help giving a little bit more depth to the overall scene.
Nice rework so far!
Next up is the texture consistency. You have a lot of contrasting saturations as well as luminosities. In the concept only has three surface colours: green, grey and brown. The green acts as the cool canvas whereas the grey acts as the detail, and the brown acts as the warm contrast in remote absence of direct sunlight within the frame. Try to simulate the concept more. Keep working, and this could be a real winner.
I'm not seeing this at all. This is how I see it. The mountains are high enough to block most of the direct rays but gaps between them is letting some sun in.
I'll post some images later tonight, my hard drive is at home!
Added some boats, shifted things round, changed the fog!
Those boats look nice! Are you planning on having the scene move with some sort of ambient animation (such as foliage in the wind and the boats bobbing on the water)?
If not, I think it would work well to have some grungy/scratchy decals on the boats to make them look unique, rather than clones of each other.
If they are to be dynamic, then maybe a few different material instances with different main or blend textures could be applied to them.
Something else that I've noticed is that the UDK landscape doesn't really have enough resolution for sharp angles such as the river banks - the water's edge looks quite jagged.
To get around this problem, you could keep the scene as it is, but create your own Static Mesh river bank with the resolution and detail that you desire before blending it with the landscape in UDK.
Edit: You can export a landscape object as an .obj file to help you get the dimensions that you need in Maya.
I'll hold off any lighting critiques until you've come further with the scene - I hope that all helps!
I've made some grass and I'm going to add a wind actor as soon as I get to that part of the tutorial. I agree with you about the river edge but I'll leave it for now. I'll definately come back to it.
What do you think of the grass?
Although the low texture resolution of the floor in contrast is making it stick out too much as not being part of the ground.
Maybe adding a Detail Texture to the ground as well as some smaller clumps of grass amongst your meshes would help to blend the two together with a better transition?
To get the grass to blend even smoother with the ground, you could try a method described by @choco in his Portfolio Thread which essentially makes the grass pick up the colour of the terrain beneath it.
Are you following the 3D Motive tutorial?
I finished the 3dmotive tut! Learnt so much and can use 3dsmax for simple things now (I had only used Maya before!
I was wondering if I'd scared you off :P
Finished the trees, added the wind, started making new terrain.
@angieb1970 Thank you
So I've been following Choco's tuts! They're amazing, just been working on the terrain:
Good luck with the terrain, seems to be coming along!
Keep up the hard work! Look forward to seeing your next update.
Love watching this! It's a really useful thread, and I can see why you chose the subject matter. There's something really nice about working on a peaceful, idyllic scene.
@Darkleopard It'll be in the engine soon
@KateC Thanks! I love your work!
I haven't had an ultra productive day today, since I got a new PC and have been installing things all day. The internets really bad here so its taking like 8 hours to download Maya from the Autodesk site!
Been working into the terrain in zbrush
Ok so I've had a right time importing this terrain, since my laptop practically melts just opening UDK, and I haven't got the DVI to DVI cable to use my new PC
I think I'm going to redo the buildings again, to something more like this:
In any case, do you have reference for your boat at all? The boat doesn't looked balance at the moment. seems the front would dip into the water because all the weight is there. but then again I don't know a bunch about boats.
The boat is from the film, The Perfect Storm. It's called the Andrea Gail, here it is! I agree though, I think it looks front heavy.
Yep. I would add an Erosion filter (there is a preset in there that is suppsed to be used with terraces) and mask it by height, so that I affects only the bottom area of the terrain.