Ok guys seriously this is all too much for me, What I put down in words always gets misinterpreted, I'm not being arrogant I don't think I'm good or that anything I have done is good enough for anything, I completely suck at everything, I can admit that because I have a strong heart it's just about the only thing good about me. I am taking ALL of your criticisms into consideration and A lot of what your saying is correct, I do have good reference and I do know a shit load about anatomy and I definitely know how to model and I do know that my topology is all fucked up, but it's all too late for that now, I haven't given up I have ran out of time, the best I can do right now is bash it out as best I can in Zbrush and hope for the best and expect the worst, like all my characters have turned out. I don't plan on doing any more characters in the future because it's just not my thing and I find no pleasure in it. Thanks again to everyone who helped but there is little to nothing you can do now.
In the begging stages of starting out a new project, things start out flat and simple. Keep giving it love and finish. Dont get frustrated. All i know is that wishing for the best never gave me any results. So keep moving man, even if its not at the quality that you want. At the very least you will have that experience. Rather than always hitting the same wall.
I have tried to apply many of the criticisms, I have not rejected any of them, if you could be more specific that would be very helpful or at least make an example and not just say you've done it wrong and leave it at that. Again I have not given up I'm still making it, I have run out of time because I have a deadline it needs to be finished in a couple of weeks, Fully rigged, textured and animated. I am not a character artist so that is not what I'm going to be hired to do, this is just a college assignment. I am being honest with myself in every way, it is also VERY easy for my words to be misinterpreted because sometimes it is very difficult to describe what I mean, there is no tone of voice in text.
I would like to stress the point that I AM NOT A CHARACTER ARTIST, and I HAVE NOT GIVEN UP, and I DO LISTEN TO CRITICISM and apply them to my work, and I am very thankful to all of you for supplying your opinions.
Please don't take these comments the wrong way, I mean well.
Here is a small update picture of where I am up to:
you say "if you could be more specific that would be very helpfull" i dont know how any one could be more specific . the underlining forms are not how a face is shaped. the jaw doesnt come up to meet the ear straight from the chin and if you had "all the reference you needed" then you would know this. you would also know that the nose has its own muscle definition and should not look like a shark fin. and that the eye sockets are deeper and the eye lids wrap around the eye and eye brow skin hangs down on the eye lids of males most if not all of the time. Facial creases coming out from the nostrils should be above the nostrils. the lips dont even exist and if you had anatomy referance you would know that there are muscles around that area that form more flesh to stick out in certian areas such as both side of the bottem lip towards the corners, the same corners that should be pushed under the top lip theres also a dip in the moustache area in the middle. reference would have showen you this. and for the last time the ear is just plastered on there and is basically flat across the side of the head... you can never have to much reference
This is to TehSplatt and FlashL, You keep saying that judging by my modelling skills with this face your assuming that I don't use anatomy reference, and FlashL says
"If your reference was good, your model would be better - Fact.
If you had good understanding of anatomy, your model would be better. - Fact.
If you do have good reference, & good understanding of anatomy, then you're modelling wrong."
Good reference doesn't guarantee a good result, A good understanding of anything doesn't improve your actual skills creating what you know a lot about, and what would you be comparing it to? it would look better than what? how do you know that's not the best I can do. and saying that I'm modelling wrong is a bit harsh, I know for a fact I am modelling correctly because I have run it but my teachers who are industry professionals. The pictures you where looking at was when I was just trying to make my edge flow correct, I was not making it look human at that point, once I had the correct topology I would move on to moving around the verts to construct a proper looking face, since I ran out of time I didn't get the chance to do that which is why your seeing such a pathetic face.
As you can see I have made the chin less pointy and his ears have been pulled up, so you can't say I don't listen to criticism.
Another thing, It is actually physically impossible to tell someone's attitude from text, The only thing I said is to not assume I don't know anything about anatomy, and I said I get "A little frustrated" when people assume I don't know something when I do, I don't get very frustrated with my work.
As for raul's comment: all the advice you gave me is what I already do and I agree with your methods, and I didn't mean that I just wish for the best all the time, I work hard and I'm not exactly going to hope it turns out bad am I.
Yet somehow I do always hit the same wall, which is that is turns out looking shit because I genuinely suck at characters It's not that I don't like them or that I give up or don't try, I love characters I never give up and I always try my hardest, I have made about 6 characters now and I'm pretty sure I can say that it's not my fault they turn out shit, I do practice and I am improving, but I'm not improving that much, but please don't tell me something like "you need to try harder" or "just don't give up" or something stupid like "everyone starts out shit" because I've been doing this for over 3 years now and I know what I am good at and what I'm not and I'm always improving my weaknesses.
Ok this is getting ridicules TehSplatt, I know all of the things you just said are TRUE!!! I can't believe your still going on about it, YES there should be more definition in the nose and ears and fucking everywhere, I KNOW, I do have reference and it does SHOW ME that! I have run out of time as I was in the middle of fixing up ALL of these KNOWN issues!!! and I was asking FlashL to be more specific in relation to what she was referring to on certain points.
I think you could have avoided all of this by just sucking it up and being a man about it, now you just look like your trying to avoid putting in the effort to improve and continue to break threw those walls but yea what ever man its your thing. And to be honest, a good understanding of anatomy guarantees a result that shows your progressing and listening and learning one of the things that you will never stop doing in this industry if you want to get places. EDIT: im also wondering why you didnt just keep the face you did in the first place which looked much better than this new one?
See you just assume you know what my thoughts where on everything you've got me all wrong all of you do, There couldn't possibly be anything further from the truth about me, When was I not "a man about it" specifically?? How am I avoiding the effort to improve it? I have been forced to move on otherwise I will not finish the assignment and if that happens I fail the course and if that happens I wont get a job and if that happens my life will be over because there is nothing I care more about in the world than my career in the video games industry, I am a very passionate person who never gives up on anything. It is more important that I get it finished than it looking good. Yeah I agree that about having an understanding of anatomy and listening and learning, I said it doesn't always guarantee a PERFECT result it just helps a lot. I can't use the first head I did because my teacher said you have to start from scratch for this assignment and not use the Zbrush Demo Head. So as you saw I can eventually get it looking right but I just ran out of time before I could get it looking even ok.
Im not trying to say your not passionate i just said judging from the way you have been talking you seem like you dont want to listen, but its allgood if your fine where your at and you feel that you are improving then thats fine, but i dont think taking something like the zbrush demo head which allready has all the basic forms down and pushing it into a worse shape is getting something to look right. This has got way to out of hand so, carry on.
Nah yeah it's all good man I just said something I didn't mean and it seemed like I was being arrogant and like I didn't want to listen to criticism but in actual case I really do want to hear all of your comments, This is what happens when text is misinterpreted and one aggressive comment bounces off the other, and it all gets out of control.
I didn't just move around the demo head a little so it looked different and claimed it as my own, I added detail and changed proportions and skin folds and a heap of stuff and spent quite a long time perfecting it and that took up a lot of my time, I have done heads/faces before and they have turned out ok but again, I'm not worried about any of this because I am not a character artist.
See you just assume you know what my thoughts where on everything you've got me all wrong all of you do, There couldn't possibly be anything further from the truth about me, When was I not "a man about it" specifically?? How am I avoiding the effort to improve it? I have been forced to move on otherwise I will not finish the assignment and if that happens I fail the course and if that happens I wont get a job and if that happens my life will be over because there is nothing I care more about in the world than my career in the video games industry, I am a very passionate person who never gives up on anything. It is more important that I get it finished than it looking good. Yeah I agree that about having an understanding of anatomy and listening and learning, I said it doesn't always guarantee a PERFECT result it just helps a lot. I can't use the first head I did because my teacher said you have to start from scratch for this assignment and not use the Zbrush Demo Head. So as you saw I can eventually get it looking right but I just ran out of time before I could get it looking even ok.
Wow man, take a deep breath. Forget this thread or these people here for a moment.
Advice:
>I have been forced to move on otherwise I will not finish the assignment and if that happens I fail the course and if that happens I wont get a job and if that happens my life will be over.
No. Just no. Look, if you fail to finish this character yes, you might fail the course. If you fail the course, you will be given another chance to take it. But what is really destructive to you here is the attitude that school = job. This isn't true. What equals a job in the art industry in general is talent. Now what THIS means is that the worst thing you could do for yourself is to scramble to finish bad work for the sake of a course, when in the real world what matters is that you take your time and learn to do things properly. Nobody is going to say, "Well xxxxx, thanks for applying, we see you've passed an intro course in modeling, so here's a job." They're going to look at your portfolio, they're going to see your work, and they're going to try to discern whether or not you have the skills (art and technical) that would make you a fit for their team.
The stress of assuming that if you fail a class life ends is doing you no favors. It has obviously knotted you up, to the point where you are cussing and arguing with people who are trying to help. I realize it feels like you are being attacked. Most of us felt that way at some point or another. And I also realize that at some point, this thread became more about pointing out why people here are upset with you than about helping you with your goal of becoming an artist in this industry. But take a step back.
People who graduate with this kind of a skill-set, most people, anyways, don't get hired automatically on. It can take a couple years to mature in the technical and artistic things that you've learned, to get the point where you are hireable. It's an important thing to remember. Unlike other professions, say an engineer, having the 'information' isn't enough.
My suggestion is to put off this singular goal in your head where:
a.) information = knowledge. For example, you say you 'know anatomy' and it frustrates you when people correct you because you 'know what you're doing'. People study artistic anatomy all their lives and are never beyond more learning. Because you have taken a college anatomy course for artists does not mean that your artistic skills have absorbed what you know. Your man is anatomically incorrect, it's all the proof you need. The only way to learn this is years of practice, so keep practicing, and when people tell you it looks off, do not get frustrated -- find out why, even if it turns out they are wrong.
b.) School = job. A degree will help, and taking the classes is a good way to learn. It is not the only way to learn, and independent practice remains the most important part. If you assume that graduating = job then you will be disappointed.
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Polycount is full of great artists, themselves also trying to learn. It functions very well as an art community, and in ALL art communities (except communist ones, maybe) there is criticism. If you do not learn how to deal with criticism, you will fail to thrive in an art community of any kind. Here is now you deal with criticism:
Do not argue. Please, feel free to talk, question, ask for references or resources etc, but do not turn it into an argument.
Be Polite. No cussing, if it can be helped, or at least no cussing in anger.
Take the criticisms onboard, use them to recognize your artistic and technical shortcomings, and then practice until they are your strengths.
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I wish you honest good luck. I am sure everyone else here does as well. Keep at it.
Of course I did already know everything you just said, again someone else assuming they know exactly what's in my head, This is not an introductory course, like I said I have been studying for over 3 years this is my forth year and last course, there is no more after this one because I have put all my money into it, So there is a certain degree of urgency to not fail this course, Again everything you said I already know, I'm not angry at anyone, again you can't tell someone's tone of voice through text, just because I use cuss words does not mean I am yelling in anger. I appreciate the thought and heart that went into your comment but I did already know everything you said and my text was yet again misinterpreted.
And as for this comment: "you say you 'know anatomy' and it frustrates you when people correct you because you 'know what you're doing'. People study artistic anatomy all their lives and are never beyond more learning. Because you have taken a college anatomy course for artists does not mean that your artistic skills have absorbed what you know. Your man is anatomically incorrect, it's all the proof you need. The only way to learn this is years of practice, so keep practicing, and when people tell you it looks off, do not get frustrated -- find out why, even if it turns out they are wrong."
I know that obviously, did I say I was an expert? no. did anyone try to teach me more about anatomy? no. So why comment about it? I am learning and open to all suggestions and I'm a very nice and polite person, I may not be very skilful but I am good enough in my field to not fail in that area, again I'm not saying I'm good enough so I'm not going to try to improve on that area, and you say that I shouldn't just move on to get it done and take my time, if I take any more time I will fail, It is a balance between taking the time and knowing when to move on. you should know that.
Alright Nash, I was hoping I could interject some rationality here and get this thing back on track, but I suppose not.
Here are your own words: "It's just that when people assume I don't know shit about anatomy I get a little frustrated."
You said this to the comment: "chins to pointy and nose is to thin and the neck is sticking out of the head to far up also the ears are to small and the cheek bone doesnt really exist."
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Well, the first comment is right, all those things are true about the anatomy. Then, instead of incorporating those crits, you argued and got frustrated. Yet somehow everyone is 'misinterpreting your text'. You have also started more comments with the words, "I know that," than anyone has a right to do.
______
So, given that, I'm going to tell you something that might be sad to hear.
If you are 3d year, and this is the work you are producing, and this is the attitude you have about working with others and learning, you're probably not going to find a job.
I want to wish you good luck, but I fear it's going to take a couple of hard knocks to get you into the right place where you're able to get better at this kind of stuff. So instead I'll say, good luck on all the hard knocks.
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If anyone else is reading this comment, perhaps it's time people simply stopped responding. It's obvious that it's not going anywhere, and I regret speaking up now.
HAHAHA, ok wow somehow you misinterpreted something big!, I was not commenting on THAT comment, I agreed with those pointers and I applied those elements into my model. someone else said you don't know shit about anatomy and then they said if you did it would look better and I said I'm working on it and they said you obviously not and that's when I got a "little" frustrated. I am a VERY nice person, Really it's true!, It might be difficult for you to understand what I'm saying because I hardly know sometimes, yes I am producing bad work with this assignment and that's because yep I'll say it again "I AM NOT A CHARACTER ARTIST" I am not worried about this character looking bad because all my characters do, I will not be making characters in the industry. my other work for example environments are up to industry standard and that's not me saying that, that's my teachers saying that. I am not an arrogant person, I know it might come off as that here because of what I have said but I'm not very good at communicating exactly what I mean.
Post the stuff you're proud of, then.
Don't take your teachers' word for it.
I'd like to see your other models.
And "I'm not a character artist" isn't a valid excuse. If you post it, it means you want feedback, or a good ego-stroke. If it sucks, and you don't care if it's good, don't post it.
Also, work on your communication skills, because I thought everything you said was offensive to the people trying to help. You won't get anywhere if you sound like you are dismissing peoples' comments. People dislike that, get offended, and they probably won't say anything in the future.
So yes, post your other stuff. In this thread, or a new one. Actually, preferably both.
I promise to stop posting after this... I am a character artist. that is my job that is what i was hired to do. When i first got my job i got put on environments something that i wasn't amazing at. but lucky for me i had taken a bit of time out of characters to learn environment art. after that i thought surely i will be on characters now, i then got put on rigging i am honestly the worst rigger, but i didn't loose my shit and tell them this isn't what i was hired for and storm out i just had to deal with it and i spent a full day learning every thing i could about rigging from every one and every source i could. If i had the attitude that you do im assuming that i would have been fired on the spot and probably continue down the path that i was amazing at 1 thing and that's all i needed and that's a very poor way of thinking. 3d is art, art consists of soooooo much and its alot to take in and sure, every one has stuff they like but that doesn't mean you should shrug off something else that is going to help you as an artist to develop just because you dont think you will ever need that skill set. I would love to see some of your environment work.
Inb4, I know all of that! you misinterpreted my words
I only made this thread because it was a requirement for the assignment, I know that in the industry you might be put onto jobs in areas you may not be familiar with but everyone has the same problem with that, that's not an issue they know your not an environment artist so they don't expect much from you, same with me If I'm put on a character I'll let them know I'm not good with characters and they will understand and just get me to do what I can, and I can do some cool stuff with characters I'm just not any good at designing them from scratch.
Because they are not ready to show, most of my environments are scattered around different game prototypes all over the place, It'd take a while to put them in a presentable way, and I don't have time for that right now, I'd like to stay concentrated on this character if I can, like I said I have not given up.
But thanks for the interest you show for my work
Yeah Justin_Meisse that's what I was going for, You are really good at concept drawing.
As for Joopson, Yeah That did come off as pretty mean, but THAT is why I edited a lot of the posts because that's not what I meant, I think I only said it like that because I felt negative energy towards me, and that's way before I even replied to anyone and came off as being mean.
I'm wary of stirring up anything, but I had to say I couldn't agree with TehSplatt more.
I graduated with a game art degree but was offered a position at Adidas' U.S. headquarters as a 3d designer. My job required/requires me to go outside my comfort zone in so many ways. I've had to learn apparel design, footwear design, management, teaching, after effects, animation, etc. The list goes on and on. I still hope with all my heart that I can break into the games industry. But I'm willing to recognize that learning all those things adds to my professional skillset and my art. It's important to keep learning.
You're not a character artist but you will work with some. By learning what they have to do, it clears up a multitude of communication issues. Same with learning about rigging, animation, programming, etc. By having a working knowledge of these topics, you can really work well in a team and know how to talk with folks.
Also, unless you're working in a huge studio, ya gotta wear a lot of hats. I know lot of people who have to be modelers, texture artist, riggers, and animators. While you're not in that extreme of a position, be a bit more flexible.
Ok I thought I had already covered this but apparently not, I'd like to stress that I have not given up on characters or learning any new things in areas I'm uncomfortable in, I have been through various TAFE's and colleges learning every aspect behind the scenes of making video games including making films because it all relates, The only thing I meant by what I said which wasn't very descriptive was that I probably wont be making any new characters from scratch in the future as part of my college course, In my free time after college I will continue to make new characters and work on my weaknesses in that area. And thank you all for caring for me in your own way.
...going to interject a little request here. Nath, in the future can you figure out what you're going to say and/or show and put it all in one post, instead of posting several times back to back within the same few minutes, or hours? The edit button is there for just such occasions.
Otherwise it makes it a little bit of a headache reading through the thread trying to figure out when updates and things were posted.
Thanks. *please don't be mad at me please don't be mad at me please don't be mad at me*
Yep all good, I completely apologise to everyone by the way I realise now that the way I said certain things it came out in a way that I didn't want it to, so yeah sorry about that, I'm up to rigging my character and I'm pretty sure I'm going to stuff it up a few times but I need to have it done by monday so I can animate the damn thing, because it's due Tuesday. Thanks everyone for their understanding.
I have been following this thread for a moment and I must say. If you have been going through college to acquire this level of skill then I am definitely on the right track. I personally recommend looking into Zbrush Workshops on youtube and seeing how the various areas of the face have their forms developed. In retrospect when I first started out with 3d, I was unable to see how models were incorrect until far down the road when I was hit with harsh critique even when I felt I tried my best. It's easy to fall in love with a model and become stubborn over changes you feel aren't necessary.
Here is what I started with at the beginning of my modelling endeavors if it makes you feel better,
As time went on and I got cut down to size by pros. Ragequit the software for a week then came back I was able to proceed as an artist. I'm no pro by no means but you are receiving solid advice. The last model I made of a face was
Still a ways to go before I'm at the level I want but the time strech between the two was about 2 years. Keep you head up and take in that advice and you'll definitely take this to the next level.
I never said I liked the way it looked, I tried to get the edge flow aka topology correct before sculpting it into the right look when I ran out of time, basically the face hasn't been edited at all, so I understand everything your saying it's just that I need to let everyone know that I didn't just stop making the face because I thought it was done or good enough, I just had to move on.
I followed this thread since the rage started a few weeks ago, was kinda pathetic that you quit but thats your choice...
I'm a games design student myself, I worked extremely hard to get where I am
now, with a predicted 1:1 bsc degree, and probably learnt more from the polycount community then the two years I've studied due to critique.
You mentioned the fact your teachers are industry pros, my teachers used to be industry too that does not make them better; if you looked up through the polycount members list... 50% of the members on here are industry pros... All looking at your work, your bad attitude to criticism and rofling...
Practice, in your spare time take your model and restart it, look
At it from a different perspective; get some of your friends to look at it.
Too bad you quit with the model dude. I have seen 3 threads like this and they all turn out the same. I guess its good a distance yourself between you and your work so it dosnt get as personal as this.
What i love most about this community is the work threads where people submit (usually really crappy stuff) and people help them improve. For a bystander it is really amazing how much progress they can make when they take critisizm the right way.
Maybe that would be a thing to concider, i bet there are plenty of people that want to help you out.
Or you can just do like me, rarely post any work that im not really proud of and contribute by trying to help others.
TehSplatt you are a serious hero if you ask me, buckets of patience and super sound advice. Nath_gamer I really recommend you gather everything he said to you and take it all in, your probably not aware of how lucky you are that someone went to so much effort to give you such a ton of useful advice.
I am appreciative of all the advice I have received and I have not blown off anyone's critique, I did not "quit" or "Give up" on my modelling I just ran out of time and was getting way too bugged down in the topology that I had to move on otherwise I would not be at the stage I am now and I would have failed the assignment if I had taken any more time on the modelling than I did. I'd like to thank TehSplatt even if some of the things he said where a little borderline offensive but all good advice in the end.
I'd like to also state that it seems as though I didn't incorporate anyone's advice into my model and that's simply because I didn't have the time to do so, I was literally in the middle of making the required changes when I was forced to move on.
Given the chance after this assignment I'd like to give the character a second crack and see how much better I can make it, it can't get any worse than the way this one looks.
When you come to polycount, don't get offended, because nobody is trying to offend.
Just keep that in mind, and I look forward to seeing your next thread.
I'd say it's time to let this thread die.
Replies
In the begging stages of starting out a new project, things start out flat and simple. Keep giving it love and finish. Dont get frustrated. All i know is that wishing for the best never gave me any results. So keep moving man, even if its not at the quality that you want. At the very least you will have that experience. Rather than always hitting the same wall.
I would like to stress the point that I AM NOT A CHARACTER ARTIST, and I HAVE NOT GIVEN UP, and I DO LISTEN TO CRITICISM and apply them to my work, and I am very thankful to all of you for supplying your opinions.
Please don't take these comments the wrong way, I mean well.
Here is a small update picture of where I am up to:
"If your reference was good, your model would be better - Fact.
If you had good understanding of anatomy, your model would be better. - Fact.
If you do have good reference, & good understanding of anatomy, then you're modelling wrong."
Good reference doesn't guarantee a good result, A good understanding of anything doesn't improve your actual skills creating what you know a lot about, and what would you be comparing it to? it would look better than what? how do you know that's not the best I can do. and saying that I'm modelling wrong is a bit harsh, I know for a fact I am modelling correctly because I have run it but my teachers who are industry professionals. The pictures you where looking at was when I was just trying to make my edge flow correct, I was not making it look human at that point, once I had the correct topology I would move on to moving around the verts to construct a proper looking face, since I ran out of time I didn't get the chance to do that which is why your seeing such a pathetic face.
As you can see I have made the chin less pointy and his ears have been pulled up, so you can't say I don't listen to criticism.
Another thing, It is actually physically impossible to tell someone's attitude from text, The only thing I said is to not assume I don't know anything about anatomy, and I said I get "A little frustrated" when people assume I don't know something when I do, I don't get very frustrated with my work.
As for raul's comment: all the advice you gave me is what I already do and I agree with your methods, and I didn't mean that I just wish for the best all the time, I work hard and I'm not exactly going to hope it turns out bad am I.
Yet somehow I do always hit the same wall, which is that is turns out looking shit because I genuinely suck at characters It's not that I don't like them or that I give up or don't try, I love characters I never give up and I always try my hardest, I have made about 6 characters now and I'm pretty sure I can say that it's not my fault they turn out shit, I do practice and I am improving, but I'm not improving that much, but please don't tell me something like "you need to try harder" or "just don't give up" or something stupid like "everyone starts out shit" because I've been doing this for over 3 years now and I know what I am good at and what I'm not and I'm always improving my weaknesses.
I didn't just move around the demo head a little so it looked different and claimed it as my own, I added detail and changed proportions and skin folds and a heap of stuff and spent quite a long time perfecting it and that took up a lot of my time, I have done heads/faces before and they have turned out ok but again, I'm not worried about any of this because I am not a character artist.
Wow man, take a deep breath. Forget this thread or these people here for a moment.
Advice:
>I have been forced to move on otherwise I will not finish the assignment and if that happens I fail the course and if that happens I wont get a job and if that happens my life will be over.
No. Just no. Look, if you fail to finish this character yes, you might fail the course. If you fail the course, you will be given another chance to take it. But what is really destructive to you here is the attitude that school = job. This isn't true. What equals a job in the art industry in general is talent. Now what THIS means is that the worst thing you could do for yourself is to scramble to finish bad work for the sake of a course, when in the real world what matters is that you take your time and learn to do things properly. Nobody is going to say, "Well xxxxx, thanks for applying, we see you've passed an intro course in modeling, so here's a job." They're going to look at your portfolio, they're going to see your work, and they're going to try to discern whether or not you have the skills (art and technical) that would make you a fit for their team.
The stress of assuming that if you fail a class life ends is doing you no favors. It has obviously knotted you up, to the point where you are cussing and arguing with people who are trying to help. I realize it feels like you are being attacked. Most of us felt that way at some point or another. And I also realize that at some point, this thread became more about pointing out why people here are upset with you than about helping you with your goal of becoming an artist in this industry. But take a step back.
People who graduate with this kind of a skill-set, most people, anyways, don't get hired automatically on. It can take a couple years to mature in the technical and artistic things that you've learned, to get the point where you are hireable. It's an important thing to remember. Unlike other professions, say an engineer, having the 'information' isn't enough.
My suggestion is to put off this singular goal in your head where:
a.) information = knowledge. For example, you say you 'know anatomy' and it frustrates you when people correct you because you 'know what you're doing'. People study artistic anatomy all their lives and are never beyond more learning. Because you have taken a college anatomy course for artists does not mean that your artistic skills have absorbed what you know. Your man is anatomically incorrect, it's all the proof you need. The only way to learn this is years of practice, so keep practicing, and when people tell you it looks off, do not get frustrated -- find out why, even if it turns out they are wrong.
b.) School = job. A degree will help, and taking the classes is a good way to learn. It is not the only way to learn, and independent practice remains the most important part. If you assume that graduating = job then you will be disappointed.
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Polycount is full of great artists, themselves also trying to learn. It functions very well as an art community, and in ALL art communities (except communist ones, maybe) there is criticism. If you do not learn how to deal with criticism, you will fail to thrive in an art community of any kind. Here is now you deal with criticism:
Do not argue. Please, feel free to talk, question, ask for references or resources etc, but do not turn it into an argument.
Be Polite. No cussing, if it can be helped, or at least no cussing in anger.
Take the criticisms onboard, use them to recognize your artistic and technical shortcomings, and then practice until they are your strengths.
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I wish you honest good luck. I am sure everyone else here does as well. Keep at it.
And as for this comment: "you say you 'know anatomy' and it frustrates you when people correct you because you 'know what you're doing'. People study artistic anatomy all their lives and are never beyond more learning. Because you have taken a college anatomy course for artists does not mean that your artistic skills have absorbed what you know. Your man is anatomically incorrect, it's all the proof you need. The only way to learn this is years of practice, so keep practicing, and when people tell you it looks off, do not get frustrated -- find out why, even if it turns out they are wrong."
I know that obviously, did I say I was an expert? no. did anyone try to teach me more about anatomy? no. So why comment about it? I am learning and open to all suggestions and I'm a very nice and polite person, I may not be very skilful but I am good enough in my field to not fail in that area, again I'm not saying I'm good enough so I'm not going to try to improve on that area, and you say that I shouldn't just move on to get it done and take my time, if I take any more time I will fail, It is a balance between taking the time and knowing when to move on. you should know that.
Here are your own words: "It's just that when people assume I don't know shit about anatomy I get a little frustrated."
You said this to the comment: "chins to pointy and nose is to thin and the neck is sticking out of the head to far up also the ears are to small and the cheek bone doesnt really exist."
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Well, the first comment is right, all those things are true about the anatomy. Then, instead of incorporating those crits, you argued and got frustrated. Yet somehow everyone is 'misinterpreting your text'. You have also started more comments with the words, "I know that," than anyone has a right to do.
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So, given that, I'm going to tell you something that might be sad to hear.
If you are 3d year, and this is the work you are producing, and this is the attitude you have about working with others and learning, you're probably not going to find a job.
I want to wish you good luck, but I fear it's going to take a couple of hard knocks to get you into the right place where you're able to get better at this kind of stuff. So instead I'll say, good luck on all the hard knocks.
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If anyone else is reading this comment, perhaps it's time people simply stopped responding. It's obvious that it's not going anywhere, and I regret speaking up now.
Don't take your teachers' word for it.
I'd like to see your other models.
And "I'm not a character artist" isn't a valid excuse. If you post it, it means you want feedback, or a good ego-stroke. If it sucks, and you don't care if it's good, don't post it.
Also, work on your communication skills, because I thought everything you said was offensive to the people trying to help. You won't get anywhere if you sound like you are dismissing peoples' comments. People dislike that, get offended, and they probably won't say anything in the future.
So yes, post your other stuff. In this thread, or a new one. Actually, preferably both.
Inb4, I know all of that! you misinterpreted my words
Why not now?
But thanks for the interest you show for my work
they have some great reference here that are right up your ally.
That's all that was left after yesterday's editing rampage, but there was more.
As for Joopson, Yeah That did come off as pretty mean, but THAT is why I edited a lot of the posts because that's not what I meant, I think I only said it like that because I felt negative energy towards me, and that's way before I even replied to anyone and came off as being mean.
I graduated with a game art degree but was offered a position at Adidas' U.S. headquarters as a 3d designer. My job required/requires me to go outside my comfort zone in so many ways. I've had to learn apparel design, footwear design, management, teaching, after effects, animation, etc. The list goes on and on. I still hope with all my heart that I can break into the games industry. But I'm willing to recognize that learning all those things adds to my professional skillset and my art. It's important to keep learning.
You're not a character artist but you will work with some. By learning what they have to do, it clears up a multitude of communication issues. Same with learning about rigging, animation, programming, etc. By having a working knowledge of these topics, you can really work well in a team and know how to talk with folks.
Also, unless you're working in a huge studio, ya gotta wear a lot of hats. I know lot of people who have to be modelers, texture artist, riggers, and animators. While you're not in that extreme of a position, be a bit more flexible.
Otherwise it makes it a little bit of a headache reading through the thread trying to figure out when updates and things were posted.
Thanks. *please don't be mad at me please don't be mad at me please don't be mad at me*
Here is what I started with at the beginning of my modelling endeavors if it makes you feel better,
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad360/finalex1001/Head%20Studies/IMG_1113.png
As time went on and I got cut down to size by pros. Ragequit the software for a week then came back I was able to proceed as an artist. I'm no pro by no means but you are receiving solid advice. The last model I made of a face was
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad360/finalex1001/Head%20Progress/1335052201013.png
Still a ways to go before I'm at the level I want but the time strech between the two was about 2 years. Keep you head up and take in that advice and you'll definitely take this to the next level.
I'm a games design student myself, I worked extremely hard to get where I am
now, with a predicted 1:1 bsc degree, and probably learnt more from the polycount community then the two years I've studied due to critique.
You mentioned the fact your teachers are industry pros, my teachers used to be industry too that does not make them better; if you looked up through the polycount members list... 50% of the members on here are industry pros... All looking at your work, your bad attitude to criticism and rofling...
Practice, in your spare time take your model and restart it, look
At it from a different perspective; get some of your friends to look at it.
Cheers
What i love most about this community is the work threads where people submit (usually really crappy stuff) and people help them improve. For a bystander it is really amazing how much progress they can make when they take critisizm the right way.
Maybe that would be a thing to concider, i bet there are plenty of people that want to help you out.
Or you can just do like me, rarely post any work that im not really proud of and contribute by trying to help others.
I'd like to also state that it seems as though I didn't incorporate anyone's advice into my model and that's simply because I didn't have the time to do so, I was literally in the middle of making the required changes when I was forced to move on.
Given the chance after this assignment I'd like to give the character a second crack and see how much better I can make it, it can't get any worse than the way this one looks.
Just keep that in mind, and I look forward to seeing your next thread.
I'd say it's time to let this thread die.