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(WIP) 'Dark Jester' Next Gen Character

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This is a work in progress Concept art for my Next Gen Character Assignment, He is a Dark Evil Jester who is Fast agile and good at fighting with his Jester stick. Let me know what you think (it is very rough and I have not concepted characters before so be gentle with your criticisms, thanks)
462715_10150970456824148_551194147_12894814_1008214491_o.jpg
My Poly Limit is 12-15 thousand tris, with a maximum of five 2k (2048x2048) texture maps including a selection of: Diffuse, Specular, Gloss, Glow, Normal and AO (Ambient Occlusion).

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  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    No image appearing :-S
  • Nath_gamer
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    I'm working on it
  • MeintevdS
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    MeintevdS keyframe
    [removed image]
    There you go :)

    You wanna click share and then go to the "get link code" tab in the window that pop ups. Then the bottom 2 links are for forums, copy either of those urls and paste that on the forum.
  • Nath_gamer
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    Ok I think I figured it out I can just right click on pretty much any image from anywhere and copy image url and it'll work.
  • Nath_gamer
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    @MeintevdS: I just copied the url link of the image that you posted, but where did you get my image from??
  • Nath_gamer
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    This is an Image I found and modified and I'm using it as reference. just to give me a clear idea of what it could look like when finished.
    457509_10150968029039148_551194147_12886268_991392506_o.jpg
  • Dani McOrrie
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    currently working on a very similar concept - only female...

    same assignment too, perhaps they could be a team!

    reuNW.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    Yeah I saw that, I know it doesn't look like it from my concepts but I'm trying to make mine look as little as medieval as possible and sort of make him more unique but I'm not very good at concepting, but yeah that's a cool idea, I'm still changing my mind a lot about the overall design I just can't put it down on paper because I can't draw very well.
  • Nath_gamer
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    Evil Jester BIO: He is an old skinny man, Who keeps active as the king's personal bodyguard because Jester's are no longer used for entertainment purposes but rather a form of last defence for the king. He is a skilled assassin who uses trickery and agility/swift moves to get the job done. He still however keeps a positive attitude and he cracks a good joke every now and then, He sounds very creepy especially when he laughs for no reason, or for a very good reason. He puts on different voices every now and then to mock people who challenge him. (to be continued)
  • Nath_gamer
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    How am I going so far in terms of originality? I feel like I should make him look less medieval looking, but I'm not sure, I need to speak with my co-writer and co-director to see what he thinks.
  • l.croxton
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    Maybe for the clothes he wears are not as; how to put this... not fully costumed up as a jester perhaps? You say he is no longer used for entertainment and that he is old, so my initial idea is that he is missing some of his clothes or does not wear them all the time because they are ragged and torn.

    Maybe a good way to approach this would be to not think of him as a jester who is an assasin, but an assasin who dresses like a jester.
  • njc6425
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    Looking at the side ortho silhouette it seems very plain... I like the front, its cool but the side needs something to make it really pop from all angles. I know someone doing a jolly jester character at the moment (lots of people seem to be doing this haha) and in one of his silhouettes (which he scrapped) the hats tails?? (whatever there called) drooped down to the hips...similar to sideshow bob from the simpsons. Maybe explore that? I thought it might look cool, but i like the basis of what youve got so far, hoping itll turn out really really creepy :)
  • Nath_gamer
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    Thanks dude, I'm hoping to pull off a really creepy jester that is badass, As for the hat I like the way it is now but that is a cool Idea, I do agree I need to work on the side silo though. Thanks for the input.
  • Nath_gamer
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    @l.croxton: Yeah definitely I had already decided that, That's a good Idea because I did want him to look a lot less like a jester than he looks in my concepts, That's a really good idea thank man :)
  • Nath_gamer
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    Tiny little update to the concept sketch, I want the uniform to look really unique and not scream MEDIEVAL JESTER so It will probably be changed heaps compared to this version. Please give all of your criticisms I wont mind if you say it's shit because I think It is.472997_10150970542404148_551194147_12895003_404171760_o.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    I have spoken with my Co-producer/Writer and have come to an agreement with the overall design, He will no longer be Called Jester because that is not what he is about, He is a weird scary old man with wicked skills and he will have a fedora instead of a jester hat, and I will probably not make a very good concept art for this new look but I am convinced I needed to make this drastic change.
  • Nath_gamer
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    New Concept is basically a Deranged psycho EVIL scary man in his 60's who is bodyguard to the king. and he is in a suit with a fedora and he is skinny, It's just heavily modified from my original concept.
  • Nath_gamer
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    This is the general SHAPE of the new Suit design, The colours will be a dull red and some grey and a little bit of purple and black. and the length of the suit jacket will probably be modified.457566_10150994220649148_551194147_12945296_1600975040_o.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    Ok I have the low poly base mesh for the suit jacket with vest combo thing, Have a look :)471196_10150996539564148_551194147_12952316_955869573_o.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    My legs look really crap and I'm trying to fix them but I'm not sure if I have the correct topology, from what I can see it looks basically the same as The Joker in Arkham City (on the right) mine is (on the left)
    533286_10151005745514148_551194147_12975886_1562822367_n.jpg
  • waf
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    waf
    send them to Zbrush, and use the move+standard brush to move verts around without subdividing. You need to make it look like there are legs in the pants, so take a look at some of the guys wearing pants in 3dsk, or men in trousers on fashion sites. So long as the silhouette shapes up then you're on track.
  • Donavonyoung
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    Donavonyoung polycounter lvl 6
    Personally I like to have a base mesh with really rough anatomy and move the clothes to fit that. it really helps the clothes feel like there is something there. Just a tip that I use.
  • Nath_gamer
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    yeah that's what I've done, I made legs and then pants around them, I'm fine with fixing the shape I'm just not sure about the topology it looks like it might cause problems later on like the triangles in the crotch.
  • Nath_gamer
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    The Face is coming along nicely, very slowly but It's getting there, I suck at making faces so I didn't build the base mesh but by the time I'm finished with this face it wont look anything like the Demo Head from Zbrush.562995_10151017459734148_551194147_13013244_1728035399_n.jpg
  • njc6425
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    best thing to do with the face is find a picture of say a model/actor that suits your guy and roughly copy it, going from memory will just force weird proportions out :) find a creepy old man, maya HR giger, hes pretty creepy haha good luck
  • Nath_gamer
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    I just crammed all of the pieces together to see how it all fits together, the pants suck I really don't like them, the face is good so far ignore the top of the head cuz of the hat, and the suit needs to be higher poly but that part will be easy to fix.
    156551_10151017948364148_551194147_13014281_825149475_n.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    @njc6425: Yeah that's what I did, Why do you think I was able to get that far, I'm not that good at eye balling it.
  • Nath_gamer
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    I've done more skin detail and I want to take it further but I can't figure out how to update the Zbrush tool with the maya model that I have UV unwrapped, every time I try it looses all my sculpting detail.
    529250_10151018073699148_551194147_13014508_2059711593_n.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    Starting again with the head from scratch so I can get a more unique and exaggerated look so it doesn't look like the demo head from Zbrush.
  • Nath_gamer
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    I'm doing this character for my assignment at college and my teach said you can't use the demo head to start off with, you need to create it from scratch, so yeah that bummed me out cuz I had spent the whole day perfecting the demo head, anyway it'll probably turn out more unique if I start from scratch so I'm not that pissed.
  • Nath_gamer
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    But yeah now I'm using what I've done as reference so It wont be too difficult, the annoying part will be having to do the skin detail all over again.
  • Ostraga
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    Ostraga polycounter lvl 8
    I'm no character artist / expert on anatomy but the ears seem too low.. and the jaw seems too low as well.. here's a good reference for face anatomy Leonardo_da_vinci,_Study_on_the_proportions_of_head_and_eyes.jpg

    As you can see the bottom of the ear so be aligned with the bottom of the nose.. and the top of the ear with the eyebrow.. and there's a straight line which goes across the face in an X pattern which goes from the jaw line, angle of the nostril, cheekbone, then top of the ear.

    Good luck and keep it up :)
  • Nath_gamer
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    @Ostraga: Yes I know that, I did not create that head it's the Zbrush demo head and I just moved the face around to my liking, If you read my comments you would see that I am starting again with the head, also the chin is a bit low but it's over exaggerated and stylised I'll edit it later, I appreciate the comment though.
  • Nath_gamer
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    Small Update to the model, fixed the shoes, tucked in the shirt, changed the colours for look, and put the Fedora Hat onto the head I am not going to use but it makes a good template to see how it might look at the end.463926_10151021452024148_551194147_13022257_867781406_o.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    I still have a long way to go and I am way behind, the ears in particular are going to be a bitch. I have great reference so don't give me any I just suck at making characters.
    558722_10151077783764148_551194147_13069253_1698313456_n.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    I've done a lot of work on the eye sockets, and yes the ears are still being a bitch to me, I've also made the mouth hole.72945_10151079263229148_551194147_13071891_675721218_n.jpg
  • Nath_gamer
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    I'm Relying a lot on the detailing stage in Zbrush and Mudbox, I'm hoping it's going to look a hell of a lot better once it's gone through those sculpting programs.465539_10151089057959148_551194147_13083967_1353022223_o.jpg
  • TehSplatt
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    TehSplatt polycounter lvl 11
    chins to pointy and nose is to thin and the neck is sticking out of the head to far up also the ears are to small and the cheek bone doesnt really exist when your sculpting try not to jump up to many sub divisions before you have the base forms down. remember that skin isnt stretched across your face it hangs in alot of areas like under the eyebrows and around the lips and cheeks. also look up skull referance and u will see where the neck should stick out from
  • MrNinjutsu
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    MrNinjutsu greentooth
    What Teh Splatt and Ostraga pointed out.

    The ears do seem a little low even if it is stylised as it looks to be going in the direction of realistic based of your contributed reference images and I'm a little unsure to the path your taking with this now? Is it still a jester or more of a (la) noire cop character?
  • Nath_gamer
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    I have all the reference I need, The ears are a little low where they are, the neck is high but that's only because I haven't even tweaked it at all yet, The chin is that pointy because it's stylised but I am following anatomy reference, once the hair and the hat is there it should look better, and no it is not a jester any more, it is an Oldish man in a suit who is a bodyguard with a walking stick but uses it as a weapon. He is evil and scarily crazy.
  • David Wakelin
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    The ears are terrible, perhaps you should stop being so arrogant and listen to critique especially when your open enough to say "I Suck at Characters".. Seriously listen to advice or people wont even bother to visit your thread.
  • TehSplatt
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    TehSplatt polycounter lvl 11
    Have you ever seen a skull before? well if you look it up you will notice that there's bones in the face. there's cheek bones and a jaw bone and all this really interesting stuff that makes the face work oh and there's also muscles on top of the bone that make the skin fold in interesting ways, usually very standard ways that every face will have a hint of and with out these underlining structures then no matter how "stylized" you are making something it is going to look off. just because your attempting to exaggerate some features doesn't mean bones shouldn't exist. but hey, you're the expert right.
  • Nath_gamer
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    Everything you have suggested for me to do I am currently working on in Zbrush and Mudbox so I do listen to criticisms, It's just that when people assume I don't know shit about anatomy I get a little frustrated. I don't have any more time to work on this character because I am ridiculously behind in my assignment but if someone could give me some quick pointers as to how to quickly improve the head It would be much appreciated. I'm not the one who is arrogant here, your the one who is saying that the ears look shit and not actually telling me why they look shit or how to quickly fix the problem, your just saying my work is terrible without CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.
    Thanks to everyone who gave me helpful advice it's very much appreciated.
  • TehSplatt
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    TehSplatt polycounter lvl 11
    i gave you the exact advice you needed on how to improve the head but your to good to listen so meh, not my problem but i can assure your not going to get into the industry with this attitude and also judging by that face im going to assume you dont know shit about anatmoy.
  • FlashL
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    Nath_gamer wrote: »
    Thanks to everyone ELSE who gave me helpful advice it's very much appreciated.

    That's a bit harsh, I feel the comments TehSplatt made are justified.

    If your reference was good, your model would be better - Fact.
    If you had good understanding of anatomy, your model would be better. - Fact.
    If you do have good reference, & good understanding of anatomy, then you're modelling wrong.

    What you've effectively said is "hey guys, I suck at modelling so give me some pointers please. I have good reference so I don't need it" Now that people have proceeded to critique 'your work' (not YOU as a person) you've changed your tune to "everything I've done is correct, so I don't actually need help, when I was saying I sucked I was lying" which screams "I'm actually being modest & think I'm great, I just want to show off my work in hope for encouraging & esteem lifting compliments."

    Which in turn, provokes replies which ARE personal.

    Now, for my critique.

    The topology of the face is off, the loops are irregular & not in the correct places. There is far too much geometry at this stage which isn't adding anything to your model (example - the chin) With good topology, you could model a face far more effectively with 3 times less polygons. So try looking for topology references. You've said you have good reference, so I'll asusme you already have some, though.
    Your proportions are out, either your chin is too low, or your mouth is too high, or both. Judging from the shape & size of the head, I would say your chin is too low & pointy.
    The bridge of the nose is too high & the base of the nose is also out of place. With your good understanding of anatomy, you should already understand that noses aren't formed like this - the shape is completely off, & so is the brow, whether stylised or not. The style doesn't really add anything to the character other than making it feel like a 5 year olds crayola drawing or a character for a 5 year olds cartoon - judging by your brief on your character, I would assume this is not the angle you're aiming for.

    Critique is tough to take when someone puts so much pride in their work, but mate, if you can't take critique, you'll never improve. Harsh critique is the best, just learn how to not take it so personally. You aren't your art work, nor are you at the level to live through it, clearly.
  • FlashL
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    Also, the jaw should come up to meet the ear - it currently looks as if the bone would be joining the skull above the ear.
  • Darkleopard
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    Just incase you intend to read this thread further nath i have some advice.

    It seems that you've completely changed the character your going to do from a jester to and old man. That confuses people when criting your work. You havnt provided us with any reference, concepts or anything for this 'new' old man, so how are we supposed to know its stylized, how do you expect us to crit you well when you dont provide us with the information to do it?

    What i get this from is that you decided to do a character, got bored, changed the design, (with not much planning from what we can see) and now your going to stop working on it.

    Dont get angry at people becuase you havnt given them enough info to use. Thats unfair.

    I would also suggest doing a realistic person before a stylized one. Its easy to think that because your not good at anatomy making a stylized character where you don't have to have things perfect is easier, but its not. Be honest with yourself and take some crits
  • Joopson
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    Joopson quad damage
    Yeah, man- work on your attitude. There is a lot wrong with the model, and you need to accept that, and make changes. Everything said by the people above is totally correct. No jaw forms, the ears are just wrong, the eyes are too low, the jaw is too long and pointy, the neck is too thick and ends too high up, The lower part of the face gets thin too quickly (though this is mostly because of the jaw shape), the mouth is too straight, and the nose is too sharp. Stylization is all well and good, if it's done right- but it has to feel real. And this doesn't.
  • Nath_gamer
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    Ok guys seriously this is all too much for me, What I put down in words always gets misinterpreted, I'm not being arrogant I don't think I'm good or that anything I have done is good enough for anything, I completely suck at everything, I can admit that because I have a strong heart it's just about the only thing good about me. I am taking ALL of your criticisms into consideration and A lot of what your saying is correct, I do have good reference and I do know a shit load about anatomy and I definitely know how to model and I do know that my topology is all fucked up, but it's all too late for that now, I haven't given up I have ran out of time, the best I can do right now is bash it out as best I can in Zbrush and hope for the best and expect the worst, like all my characters have turned out. I don't plan on doing any more characters in the future because it's just not my thing and I find no pleasure in it. Thanks again to everyone who helped but there is little to nothing you can do now.
  • FlashL
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    But you obviously havent taken the criticisms delivered - you've rejected every single one up until this point where now it apparently doesn't matter because you've given up on this peice (more than likely due to the critique). The meaning of your words are hard to mis interpret so I don't agree with you there, I don't think you're being honest with your self.


    Honestly I would not give up on this. You've run out of time - how? Keep it & use it for study when you have nothing to do - improve it & then you can do the same thing 10 times faster next time, with an important lesson learned from this peice. Especially if you're actually going to try getting a job in Australia, you're going to have to be good because there are not many jobs here. Practice practice practice!
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