KingBee Assault Helicopter

KevinDuong

Hey Everyone, this thread is for the final project in my Advanced Modeling Class. I chose to make an assault helicopter. As you can see from the reference it takes parts from the Apache, Camanche, and Cobra helicopters + various sci fi concept art. The name Kingbee is a nod towards my Dad's helicopter squadron from the Vietnam War.

The assignment states that this vehicle is for cinematic purposes.

Our limitations are:

35,000 Tri. Limit

1-4 2048x2048 Texture Maps (Multi-subobject)

Due in 4 weeks. More High Poly to come.



Here is a rough brainstorm of the idea that I want to pursue. Pulled from different pieces, so the color scheme / surface normals / decals / proportions all will be changed. Was jsut trying to get the initial idea of the aircraft.


Reference Sheets:

Darkleopard

Nice start, really like the design. Im a sucker for a good chopper. WIll be watching

Gibbage

Forgive me, but im a big aerospace buff. There is 1 technical flaw in your design. There is nothing in the concept to counter act the torque of the engine and blades! In your reference, you can see the tail rotors of many aircraft. Thats one way to counter the toque. There are others you may want to consider adding to your design to make it more pheaseable.

First, is the counter rotating main rotor design. Russians like these a lot.






There is also the "notar" design, or no tail. It uses a nozzle to direct air from a turbine that counter acts the torque.



Another possible concept is inter-meshing counter rotating rotors. Thin of them like big egg-beaters.

KevinDuong

Thanks guys,

Gibbage - Thanks for the reference photos. In my reference I had a pair of incorporated tail rotors. Would that suffice? Adding another set of blades is more geometry that I would have to inveset. The rotor is currently at 6785 tris. I have 35k total, so I'd like to put those towards the rest of the helicopter.

Ghostscape

The incorporated tail rotors are hard to spot in your concept and aren't in the blockout, but I think those are fine where there are.

Gibbage

Aaaa. I didnt pick those up in the concept art. I thought that was a logo!

Here is the tail fan from an EC 120. Eurocopter loves these ducted fan tails.





My only concern is you have the mounting point right in the middle of the tail rotor duct. That will make placement difficult.

KevinDuong

Wow thanks man, I am definitely going to make one of these! they look so ill.

KevinDuong

Progress Shots of my High Poly

Xoliul

I think the efficiency of two rotors with a big block between them is a bit questionable. Technically it makes more sense to have just one, unobscured at both sides.
Your landing ski feels a bit oversized and chunky as well. It is a big improvements over what the first concept showed however

SHEPEIRO

doesn't look like you have captured the poise and weighting of the concept. i think it would be good to reposition the parts to achieve the look the thing being about to jump off the heli pad

also the landing gear looks like an interesting proposition in the concept but youve changed it for a more boring setup imo i totally disagree with Xoliul

and finally i would also remodel the tail, again i think the original concept gave the elicopter better balane visually, if not copy it i would make it longer

KevinDuong

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I'll try to reconstruct the landing legs to match the concept better. I had initially tried, but ended up with super bulky mechanical legs that didn't seem feasible, but if you guys think it is more interesting than the cobra / huey legs then I will change it.

I see what you're taling about Xoliul, the rear tail rotor shaft just intersects into a block of metal atm. I was hoping "sci fi magic' would work there, but if you've noticed then most people probably will. I'll try to fix that as well.

The original Concept has a nice organic "bug-like" silhouette to it, but when applied to 3D there were a lot of proportions that didn't add up. There were certain realistic changes that I had to make in order to realistically fit an engine inside this thing. Any more advice is greatly appreciated. I'm finding this project to be pretty difficult atm.

KevinDuong

Here is an attempt at a more sci fi landing mechanism. It's not exactly like the concept, but the folding legs would need a hydraulic system of some sort, and I'm confusing myself trying to figure it out. Nothing seems to be intersecting / overlapping so I might be going with this.

D.Carmine

Hey man I am digging the chopper. You have some great reference and the concept is pretty neat. The model looks great, but I am not feeling the way the landing gear in the back looks. If you can make it fold up like the concept that in my opinion would be much cooler.

Keep it up! Everything else on this thing looks pretty kick ass.

- D.Carmine

KevinDuong

Hey D.Carmine, thanks for being honest. I'm getting the same feedback from my friends, so here are the back landing gear as it is in the concept. Please let me know what you think:

Xoliul

Still think the sled was much better. Landing gear on aircraft is a tricky one, it really has yo feel elegant and believable, it's almost like adding legs to a bird or something, they can look off easily. I'm really big on technical believability and feasibility, so my suggestions mostly stem from that:
Helicopters have to be light and nimble, and both previous "leg" types look really fat, bulky and heavy, totally out of place for a small chopper like this. Even on the concept it just looks wrong.
The sled worked OK imo, as it is much lighter and less complex than the other types. Scalewise it looked big for this helicopter, I would've made them a bit smaller and more refined.
Wjat you could also try, is just a straightforward (folding) gear with wheels. It,s small and nimble, so will be believable, and you can play a lot more with angles and proportions (very important for landing gear). How about this: The Apache has really cool angles main gear:



I'd switch those to the back two spots, and then add an extra one to the front (probably=double wheeled). This would be non-folding

Or, you could for a more complex setup like on the Dauphin :



This leads to a very elegant look when they're collapsed. Be mindfull: you really have to model these things WITH animation in mind or they'll never be able to collapse realisticly. That's not too easy to do.

KevinDuong

Thanks Xoliul, your advice is greatly appreciated. The sci-fi landing mechanism in the concept was never a concrete idea, and I didn't realize how bulky it would look in 3D. I was driving myself crazy trying to make it look futuristic yet elegant. I just had it stuck in my head that "sleds look more sci-fi than wheels" but that is not necessarily so! I was also skeptical on how to arrange wheels as the tail of my chopper never touches the ground.

However after seeing your reference photos, I will definitely take your advice and create some wheels. Your Apache wheels with the Dauphin alignment sounds feasible and will look slick. Will get them on there asap.

KevinDuong

Alright here is my attempt at a wheel landing mechanism:









Critique welcomed. I am going to be working on the cockpit tonight. We have about 2 weeks left to get this thing finished and in engine.

KevinDuong

Alright, after considering my options, I decided to go with the sled landing mechanism. Simplistic and low poly - it just doesn't look clunky...

I've moved on to the cockpit and here are my progress shots:











The rest of the night will be creating the dashboard and various switches for the cockpit, the glass panels, and turbo smoothing everything. I will have high quality renders by tomorrow afternoon.

As always, critique is welcomed.

KevinDuong

Here is an update of my High Poly:



I still need to add cut lines and bolts to the main body. I will also be tweaking the landing gear to have a more dynamic shape. This image caught my attention and will probably be what I'm gonna go with.

KSMO

might be cool with a snow mobil ski???

re.wind

I support the notion to replace the two tail fenestrons with a larger single one.


Also, i highly suggest smoothing out the edges a lot, as even the apache and ka-50 have smoother curves in all the right places than your design.



MORE pictures of shrouded tail rotors/fenestrons:

KevinDuong

thank you for your critique re.wind, I see what you are talking about and will smooth out the corners and edges the main body. I'll also create a single tail and post to see what you guys think.

KSMO - I think I'll be able to mash the 2 into something pretty interesting.

Cheers!

KevinDuong

Here is my latest iteration of the chopper.

I created a single fenestron, a new set of landing gears, and rounded out the main body a bit:

Quasar

Maybe something like these?

... I moved the rotor a bit forward and added a cable cutter behind the canopy. Also added a tail guard : )

KevinDuong

Hey Quasar - Nice advice on adding the cable cutter and tail guard, will implement them asap

continued tweaking the landing gear lolol... this thing will be the death of me.

will update soon.

Xoliul

I like the mechanism with the pistons on the landing sled, but it's kinda weird to put a pair of sleds OVER them, I'd just stick with a simple sled.

KevinDuong

I agree Xoliul - Here it is with a single sled mechanism:
(gonna be dling your shader btw :P)



Thank you to those who helped me concept this chopper. All of your advice really helped me pull this model together. Now it is crunch time though, 2 weeks left for this project!

Multisub object - 4 Mat IDs.

Will be spending tonight and tomorrow unwrapping, packing, and 2nd UV light Maps.

PS: small things like cable cutters, tail guard, and antennae will be added. Lots to come!

D.Carmine

Looking forward to seeing this beauty all textured up. Good luck with your project!

- D.Carmine

Neuropozyne

looks great, looking forward to textures

KevinDuong

Here is my WIP of the Low Poly. I have completed the 2nd pass of normals and am currently texturing. The mesh is 30,806 tris atm, but that will change accordingly. (35k tri restraint)











There are various problems w/ these renders:

- still figuring out final color scheme. (Mimicking the Cobra color layout)

- The logos are flipped on either side due to overlapping UVs, I will ultimately be turning them into decals in UDK, so there is no incorrect mirroring.

- Various AO and placement changes still need to be made.

- The cockpit is untextured atm.

KevinDuong

Here is what I turned in for my final. I'm happy with where this is going, but I understand there is still polishing that I have to dedicate time to.

I am graduating in a week, and the next few months will be dedicated to reworking my strongest props and environments.

Havoc89

This is looking very good. Reminds me a lot of the AH-1 Cobra attack helicopter. My only critique would be that the textures feel like they are unfinished. It also feels like it is a bit too procedurally done rather then with a lot of time spent with attention to detail.

I am not really feeling the surface detail and material definition. It seems like an overlay of a base photo texture with cavity maps overlayed on top. I would recommend that you work on the textures a bit more before deeming this complete.

wolver

pull back on the rivets, theres so many its making the chopper look noisy, especially around the '240'

KevinDuong

Thanks for the honest critique. I agree, textures still needs to be worked on.

Paintforge - I'll remove every other rivet on the main body.

Havoc89 - It pretty much only has the overlays on there atm. I'll try to push the materials more and add unique wear and tear to the prop.

BakaKoneko

That's rad.
I love helicopters!

KevinDuong

Hey guys, there's a loss of quality when rendering in UDK, so I decided to download Xoliul's Shader and give it a go.

I am currently figuring out the glass shader and global opacity level.

I will post Images and ask for help if I can't figure this out on my own.