UDK - Glacier Crash

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GeorgeSokol_glaciercrash_image1.jpg
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Just started on this one. Primarily working from this concept by Adam Brockbank: http://www.croftgeneration.com/imagenes/galeria/concept_art/LCTR/bigimages/LCTR_Concept_Art_008.jpg

This concept was for the first Tomb Raider movie.


Just a blockout so far:

DerelictPlaneCrash.jpg

Basically its a ship thats buried in a glacier.


Trying a few new things as I go along here. Main challenge for me is that I'm a 3dsMax guy, but I'm going to do everything in Maya. I know my way around Maya a little bit, but I haven't really used it to do a complete environment yet.

Also, no idea how I'm going to handle the ice yet.

I'm thinking that maybe the area with the hole in it (hard to see but you can see the light coming in from it) might be a hole that leads outside of the glacier, like the ship is close to the edge. I'll have to try some things out around there to see what I want to do.

I know its pretty early on, but critiques/comments are welcome.

Replies

  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 8
    That looks pretty cool, you should get started on the ice-shader as soon as possible I think, It's going to take a lot of trial and error. Maybe look how other games do it :)
  • DeadlyFreeze
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    DeadlyFreeze polycounter lvl 11
    Double down on what chris said. It's going to be all about getting that snow and ice right, everything else is pretty simple.

    Looking at the guys shadow which is on his right, the lighting looks like it's actually coming from the left. Like the ice has built up and frozen over a hole in the hull and all the light is getting filtered through that.

    Which would be a cool effect to do, pain in the ass to figure out but awesome payoff.
  • gsokol
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    Thanks guys.

    chrisradsby:
    Absolutely no idea what I'm going to do for the ice shader. Your right thought, I need to dig into that first.

    DeadlyFreeze:
    Oh yea, it does look like the light is coming from under the steps. I do have it set up on the left side, there is a hole after the second pillar, definitely hard to tell from the shot though. I really wasn't sure what I was going to do as far as how light comes in. I was thinking of having a hole there, like an entrance was dug to get into the ship. Having icicles cover that opening and diffusing all the light coming in sounds like a gool idea.

    I had been busy doing other stuff the past few days..but I did a sculpt for one of the ice wall pieces today:

    Sculptyamidoinitrite-1.jpg
  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 8
  • gsokol
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    chrisradsby:

    Thanks for the link!


    I got around to doing a test bake on the wall piece above and I threw it into UDK with a basic material to see how it looked:

    SnowbakeInUDK.jpg

    Haven't put too much thought in the material yet, I set up a matcap material to see what that would look like...but it looks like you cant use vertex colors with the transform expression since it colors all vertices white.

    I made a sculpt for a second wall and a few single icicles...I'll finish those up and get them in UDK, then I'll focus a little more on the materials.

    Also, I just picked up a new graphics card with dx11, so I may toy around with some dx11 stuff in this environment as well.
  • WarrenM
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    Haven't put too much thought in the material yet, I set up a matcap material to see what that would look like...but it looks like you cant use vertex colors with the transform expression since it colors all vertices white.
    Try turned on "Per Pixel Camera Vector" in your material properties. It's an unfortunately obscure thing in UDK, but that will allow transforms to work with vertex color.
  • Orchidface
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    Orchidface polycounter lvl 7
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 11
    My humble opinion is that ice in glaciers is very blue under the initial surface; I hiked up one literally about four days ago (south of Katla in Iceland). You may want to look at faking some kind of subsurface scattering effect like the one presented in DICE's publications, or at least some fresnel bashing as it should really help to bring out the colour of the ice in all the right places.

    I might have some decent reference photos if you'd like me to upload some for you? I've literally only just got back and not sorted through them yet.
  • gsokol
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    WarrenMarshall:
    Hmmm sounds promising, I'll try that when I get home from work.

    Orchidface:
    Thanks!

    ambershee:
    Thats pretty awesome that you got to see some in person. I'm gonna try to get that blue in there. I do want to get some sub surface scattering going on, but I have never really tried that, so its gonna be a learning experience. Reference photos would be awesome!
  • gsokol
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    WarrenMarshall:
    That definitely worked. Thanks for pointing that out!

    WIP3.jpg

    Baked the 2 ice/snow walls and the individual icicles and got them placed in the scene. I started toying with the material on the snow wall. I ended up getting a directx11 card last week, so I've also been trying out different dx11 features. I'm using tesselation on the ice/snow wall here.
  • cholden
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    cholden polycounter lvl 13
  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 6
    Replying to subscribe. I like where this is going. I love the setting/mood.
  • snow
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    snow polycounter lvl 8
    i love that ice material!
  • Olli.
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    Olli. polycounter lvl 7
    awesome material definition on the ice! you got some SSS goin on there or how did you manage to make it look so good?
  • fearian
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    fearian Polycount Sponsor
    What Olli said! that ice looks near perfect!
  • gsokol
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    Thanks guys!

    Olli:
    Yeah I was using SSS on here. I got that look mainly from having a medium value, high gloss spec, a soft fresnel, and some parallax..which kinda makes everything look glazed over.

    I fiddled with the shader some more...I was mainly looking to get that translucent blue that you see in glacier walls a lot. I ended up setting up the matcap and using a little bit of emissive and came up with this:

    WIP4.jpg

    I also tinkered with the icicles material a little bit..
  • Norron
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    Norron polycounter lvl 7
    That little bit of emissive looks like it really made the ice. I'll be watching this one in hopes of stealing your secrets for myself.
  • SirCalalot
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    SirCalalot polycounter lvl 6
    :O

    That ice is wonderful!
    Any chance of a cheeky screen-cap of the material? :D

    *S-s-s-s-s-s-s-subscribed*
  • Tobbo
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    Tobbo polycounter lvl 6
    I'm digging the atmosphere and vibe it's giving off. Keep it up!
  • gsokol
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    Norron and SirCalalot:

    Here is now the material looks at the moment:

    GeorgeSokol_Icewall_WIPmaterial.jpg

    I'm sure this will change before I'm done with the environment...but this is the set up currently. Besides the snow, I haven't really touched the textures yet...so theres still plenty for me to do there.

    If you have any other questions about the material (or anything else)...definitely let me know.
  • SirCalalot
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    SirCalalot polycounter lvl 6
    @gsokol, I could hug you :D

    As far as I can see, your textures used are:

    - COLOUR MatCap from your High-poly
    - COLOUR Diffuse of the Ice and Sub Surface Scattering map
    - HEIGHT Parallax map for BumpOffset as well as DX11 Tessellation from High-poly
    - COLOUR Diffuse of the Snow
    - SPECULAR Spec' map for the Snow texture (I'm guessing a noise map?)
    - NORMAL MatCap from your High-poly
    - NORMAL Detail normal for general detail

    Is that right?
    The grey-scale maps can be combined into single textures, or tacked onto colour textures as alpha channels, so you could probably reduce the texture draw-calls to about 4 or 5 too for some optimisation :)

    *Starts trying out material himself*
  • luke
    this is lookin super cool dude
  • Clark Coots
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    Clark Coots polycounter lvl 7
    dat ice is nice
  • Junco
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    Junco polycounter lvl 6
    Really awesome stuff! I really appreciate your explanation of the material. I'm working on UDK mats for school atm. So thank you!
  • sprunghunt
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    sprunghunt polycounter lvl 13
    this overall concept and layout is really good. I particularly like the asymmetric composition. Keep going
  • gsokol
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    SirCalalot wrote: »
    @gsokol, I could hug you :D

    As far as I can see, your textures used are:

    - COLOUR MatCap from your High-poly
    - COLOUR Diffuse of the Ice and Sub Surface Scattering map
    - HEIGHT Parallax map for BumpOffset as well as DX11 Tessellation from High-poly
    - COLOUR Diffuse of the Snow
    - SPECULAR Spec' map for the Snow texture (I'm guessing a noise map?)
    - NORMAL MatCap from your High-poly
    - NORMAL Detail normal for general detail

    Is that right?
    The grey-scale maps can be combined into single textures, or tacked onto colour textures as alpha channels, so you could probably reduce the texture draw-calls to about 4 or 5 too for some optimisation :)

    *Starts trying out material himself*

    Sounds like you might be confusing matcap for baked textures.

    By matcap, I mean a spherical environment map...basically the same thing as the matcap materials in zbrush..the vector transform expression is switching the vector values from tangent space to view space. So basically, the section of the sphere map that is sampled depends on the angle of the camera to the object. If you google matcap or sphere map you can find out more about it.

    This is what the texture looks like for that:
    GeorgeSokol_GlacierCrash_MatcapTexture.jpg

    So the Matcap is being added to the diffuse..which right now is just the Ambient Occlusion bake multiplied by a color.


    Your definitely right about dropping the grey scale textures into channels. When I'm getting close to having a final material I'll pack them all together.
  • SirCalalot
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    SirCalalot polycounter lvl 6
    gsokol wrote: »
    Sounds like you might be confusing matcap for baked textures.
    Yes. Yes I am.

    Which would explain why my test material I tried earlier looked absolute gash compared to your wonderful composition :D
  • gsokol
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    Heyyy its been a little while.

    Here is where I'm at now:

    WIP6.jpg


    I fiddled with lighting a little bit, added a few more blockout props..added more icicles.

    I made new ceiling beams..textures aren't done yet. Also..texture on the wall on the left is just the ceiling beam texture..I'll replace that soon.
  • LoTekK
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    LoTekK polycounter lvl 11
    datice.jpg
  • SirCalalot
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    SirCalalot polycounter lvl 6
    It might just be the character in the scene (and the blue/yellow complimentary lighting), but I'm getting some awesome Bioshock-esque vibes from this now.

    Your piece has such a great atmosphere @gsokol!
  • gsokol
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    Another Update:

    GeorgeSokol_GlacierCrash_WIP8_1.jpg

    I replaced the blockout transverse frame pieces, made the metal plating texture for the wall, and..hard to see in this image..but replaced the placeholder water tank models in the background as well.

    I also fiddled with the post process settings a little bit. I fiddled with Bokeh a little bit..which was really cool..and I adjusted the color a little bit..took out some of the reds to sell the cold, icey atmosphere.

    I still have really slacked with texturing..specularity doesn't read very well on most things yet.
  • SirCalalot
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    SirCalalot polycounter lvl 6
    YES!

    It has a kind of hand-painted look to it :)
  • Iciban
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    Iciban polycounter lvl 7
    you really got the look of the ice. That shader looks really confusing. I can't never understand how all that setup works. Was there a tutorial you learned from or do you just get use to it over time? Anyways ima be following this thread. keep it up!
  • Add3r
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    Add3r polycounter lvl 6
    This is awesome, And I agree, you definitely can pull a BioShock feel from this.. Definitely has that eerie vibe! Its coming along very very nicely my friend! GREAT job so far. The concept definitely got transferred exceptionally well.

    As for the metal texture on the wall to the left, I feel it can use some work IMO. It feels like the black sheep to me in this piece. Dont get me wrong, it all looks awesome, but if I had to single out one thing right now, the texture on the left almost looks rushed if that makes sense. Maybe if you pushed the plates together some more it would help? The black bars between the plates seem really jagged and there seems like too much gap. The actual metal texture you made is pretty damn rad though, I really like its feel, but maybe some more organization and more firm lines between the plates would really tie that wall together :) Just some crits! Overall as a whole though, this scene is awesome. I dont post much, but had to log on just so i could give some feedback on this! Awesome man.
  • gsokol
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    Thanks guys!

    Iciban:
    The shader does look confusing all at once..but when you build it up from scratch its a lot easier to separate everything and understand whats going on.

    I didn't use a tutorial for the ice..but I did have to look up how to do a couple of things (MatCap, Tesselation/Displacement, Sub Surface Scattering). The displacement took a little experimenting..it seemed like every tutorial I found for displacement did something wrong, so I had to play around a little bit to get a good working combination.

    Also....I just finished checking out Ryan Smith's (Virtuosic's) Advanced Mesh Paint Tutorial at 3d motive. Its a pretty sweet tutorial..I managed to pick up a few neat tricks with vert painting that I'll integrate next time I touch the shader.

    As far as everything else goes, yea I just kinda learned along the way. I made it a point to try to get a better understanding of the UDK material editor with my last project..my Jetbike. Between that and the ice material...I've started to really get a grip on how the Material Editor works. Before that I didn't really know much..and I referenced tutorials a lot more.

    I still have a few tricks up my sleeve for the ice..I'm not done with it yet. I've got a few cool ideas that I'll tackle a bit later.


    Add3r:

    Thanks for the critique! I'll agree with you..it does look a little harsh there. Those lines are shadows from the normal map..the edges are worn a little bit. The texture is actually a tiling texture...so I shrunk it down a little bit:

    ShipHullPlates_HigherTile.jpg

    It seems to help a little bit, but is still pretty dark. I'll figure out something to make that not so harsh. Thanks for pointing that out!
  • sybrix
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    sybrix polycounter lvl 7
    Ice is looking boss. Thanks for the screencap, still trying to wrap my head around UDK materials myself. Excited to see where this goes!
  • Add3r
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    Add3r polycounter lvl 6
    Oh wow... Yeah the metal texture, at least this is how I feel, is in the sweet spot... I am REALLY diggin' it now... Wow, that small change I feel made all the difference! It is a tad dark as you said still, but depending on the angle of the cameras and the setup of the composition, this could definitely pass as a final texture setup :) Awesome man! I really like this scene! You get an awesome balance between the warm light and the cool ice, as well as the eerie feel of the long tunnel/passage. Keep up the work! Good job!
  • gsokol
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    Thanks guys.

    Thanks Nick1!!! I think this might be the first time that I've ever received critique from a spam bot! I feel honored...

    Anywhoo...I decided to figure out what I wanted to do for the hole in the shiphull, so I whipped this up tonight:

    GeorgeSokol_GlacierCrash_WIP10.jpg

    Skybox is a default UDK one..not mine..I'll replace it later. I just removed some of the meshes so you can see the entrance better..The hull piece thats missing will be partially there..I'm going to model in some damage later. Also, I hid the blockout icicle chunks..but those will be there later as well.
  • gsokol
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    I worked on the icicle chunks over the weekend.

    Here are the sculpts:
    IcicleSculpts.jpg
    This includes a the single icicles that I had already done. For the clumps, I gave dynamesh a shot. Worked out pretty well...made getting the base shapes pretty quick and easy.

    Also wanted to see how I might place them in the entrance. These meshes are just decimated versions of the high poly out of zbrush..I haven't made proper low poly models yet...thats next on the list.

    GlacierGrashEntrance.jpg
  • AlanSMitchell
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    AlanSMitchell polycounter lvl 9
    Very cool what does the expression look like for those clear icicles they look really dope!
  • gsokol
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    dudealan2001:

    The material for the sculpts is based off the Green Glass matcap from the Pixologic website, I just played with the properties and changed the hue a little bit.

    If your interested, I threw it up here.
  • AlanSMitchell
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    AlanSMitchell polycounter lvl 9
    I thought you did something special in UDK to get it to look that good I made icicles for one of my old levels and it didn't look nearly as good.

    oh and the link is down :(
  • gsokol
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    Whoops. Thought you were talking about the zbrush material.

    The udk material is fairly simple, the icicles aren't actually clear at all, they are completely opaque. I have a rimlight being added to the diffuse to get the nice highlights on the edges, and I'm using the heightmap as a transmission mask to make it look like light is bleeding through. Just a flat, high value spec at the moment with a pretty low gloss value. I'm using a low gloss instead of a high one because the wide specular highlights help make it look like light is passing through the icicles, vs being tight and giving a wet, opaque look.

    Also, link was working if you right clicked and saved it, but clicking on it was going to an empty page. Dropping the file in a .zip folder fixed that..I updated the link in my previous post if you still want it.
  • SittingDucky
  • AlanSMitchell
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    AlanSMitchell polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for the explination in both parts ^^;;
    Wow thats a very simple and elegant solution inside of UDK very cool, I would over think it like a mofo lol. can't wait to see more.

    oh yeah I have had this thought for a while but creating a decal that only uses the emmissive to fake refracted light stock-photo-refracted-light-188465.jpg
  • sipher3325
    Those icicles are looking saweeet
  • PogoP
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    PogoP polycounter lvl 8
    Don't rotate the icicles at all; they look weird coming down at angles.

    Looks awesome though, nice work.
  • Ehsan Gamer
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    Ehsan Gamer polycounter lvl 6
    Very nice job .

    nice Ice material . is it the same you show the picture in first page ?

    I Wonder How can I make a mat like this in Unity !
  • SirCalalot
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    SirCalalot polycounter lvl 6
    Well tickle-my-tits those icicle models are good.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 11
    Personally I think the icicles look out of place; they'd only really form in small numbers where water can drip, and there's nowhere in this scene that suggests it.

    I realised I never uploaded any of those glacier pics. I'm doing it now, even if it is a bit late (the results here are better than the photos anyway)!
    Edit: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=99018
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